Contributors to this thread:
If you bump a herd on an OTC hunt...
1)do they know where they are going or are they just running until one decides to stop?
2)do they tend to stay in the same "area" if under moderate pressure?
3)or if they just RUN...do they have a clue where they are when they stop?
Just curious on the thoughts of more experienced elk hunters.
I do not think they even know they are in an OTC unit. :)
Usually they'll run just to the other side of the OTC border...turn...and give you the "one hoof salute".
Honestly Garrett, I don't think they have any idea unless you're talking about the herd in Estes ;)
R. Hale, we REALLY need a "like" button on here :-)
I actually think that after about a week of the season they do know where the OTC unit is....but until opening day they don't have a clue.
From what I've seen, they can't even recognise a Hunter on the ground with an undrawn bow..that's a far cry from where he turkeys I hunt that will spook at a human track in the sand.
haha...okay
I guess what I am asking is are they like our animals and have a core area that they come to every year and if you spook them do they bump to a "safe" zone within their core
or are they just totally random?
G
Garrett, where I hunt, they run over the knob about a mile into another drainage.
Then, in two days, when someone bumps them again, they run back over the mountain into the drainage where they started ;)
Best of Luck, Jeff
Depending on cover and pressure they may run for miles before stopping if they are busted or maybe only go to the next drainage. I was on a high spot glassing in Wyoming one time and heard a shot way to the ne of me and about 10 seconds later a herd came running down the butte I was watching in a cloud of dust like a cattle stampede on the old black and white movies. There was at least 100 in the herd and they went over and through several fences up and down over at least 5 or 6 finger canyons in another private ranch and were still going when I lost sight of them. My guess is that they covered at least 3-4 miles over rugged canyon country in less than 5 minutes.
I believe they definitely have "sanctuaries", they don't always run right to them, but when $hit gets hot, they know what to do.
on the bump question....I believe if they just see or hear you they won't really go anywhere but just mill around in the general area. Wait until they calm down and you should be good. If they smell you they are going to the next drainage or maybe the next unit.
"3-4 miles over rugged canyon country in less than 5 minutes. "
wow, 30 to 45 MPH up and down ridges and through fence!
I had no idea they were that fast!
I am hoping to avoid hiking out and jumping in the truck to drive to a new locale.
Fuzzy, they chew ground up just at a walking pace...
Fuzzy these aren't TBM's chickens were talking about! :)
30'06, that is almost 60 miles per hour My guess is an elk can't run 60 miles an hour, or even close. :^) Where we hunt them, when the pressure is heavy, they seem to know exactly where they are going, and it usually isn't far. I'm no expert though. God Bless
You would think that the type of terrain would dictate that. If you're in scrub oaks with few openings, I would think they would stop running after they feel secure and all threats are gone. But I'm no expert on elk either. I could see if you were in prairie or wide open country they would run until they found more cover.
OK.give em 10 mins then. 20 even. Might as well be 30 seconds for all the good it does. Point is they can and do go for miles. And cover it like nothin'...
They aren't deer that have a relatively small "home".
What SA said, much depends on how they were spooked. What he said and I'd add if you only bump an animal or two and the rest of the herd doesn't know what happened they may not move far or even at all. Sometimes a spooked animal will take the herd with them but not always.
I think they certainly do know public from private land, or at minimum areas with high and low hunter densities. Most times I'd bet they have several known escape routes and choose one depending on where the pressure comes from. And some cases have their fortresses where they can hide out and hang for some time. I think the solo bulls will hang in those hideouts most of the time until that sweet sweet smell starts filling the air....
Seems most times a herd busts out it's a big old cow that leads em.... one that's been around the block a few times...
One thing about OTC though.... sometimes it's just about as likely somebody runs a herd into your area as you run a herd out. Lots of times we're about ready to pack up and leave an area with no sign and the place comes alive the next morning.
Elk will run till they feel safe. That could be the next drainage or the stand of dark timber a 100 yards away. It will depend on pressure and how much they are spooked. There really is not definitive answer to the question.
The old matriarch cows know safe places to go within their (very large) core area. They were taught by their elders and teach the younger ones. Bulls don't lead a spooked herd. Sometimes they go miles to a sanctuary, or they may just run over the ridge if only one or two out of a herd are spooked.
I've watched herds after the lead cow was shot, milling around confused sometimes running around in circles.
Where I hunt they most certainly know exactly where to go. There are key areas where they hold up every year when the pressure gets hard in surrounding areas. Learn these areas and you can score while others are saying there are no elk around. For most of you that would be steep ground. For me it's the thick stuff that you can hardly walk through without sounding like a herd of elephants. Unfortunately you can be 10 yards from elk and not have a shot one!
Garrett,
Getting back after them? Listen to Jaquomo.
Shoot me a pm or email.
Good luck
Rick
Groe, I realize they have long legs, but to make 40 mph, I'd expect 'em to need to break into a trot occasionally :-)
IMO- It depends on the bump. Where I hunt, if you bump them out of their bedding area, they will run for miles and sometimes you won't see them again. If you have a light bump, like they know something isn't quite right and they casually walk off, they may only leave the immediate area. You can tell a lot by the way they leave the area, a jog and they tend to stop soon. A full herd sprint and they might be gone for the season.
Lou,
what do you think and elk's core area is...just curious on your thoughts.
Thanks, G
Garrett, so much depends upon terrain, micro-habitat, and human pressure. I can only speak to the area I've studied for the past 40 years, which may not relate to anywhere else.
Couple examples: Right now I know where there is a huge summer herd (actually several big herds) totaling around 500 cows and calves and maybe 75 bulls. They range between some private and National Forest in roughly a two square mile area. They feed down low in the private and bed up in the NF. The rancher on the private is paid by the CPW to try to run them up into the NF where hunters can hunt them. He uses propane cannons, bombs, cracker shells, etc.., all summer but the elk come right back down within a day.
By the third day of bow season, these elk will be broken up and largely gone from that area. They travel 3-5 miles across open sagebrush in different directions to reach a totally different set of mountains comprised mostly of large ranches with little or no archery hunting pressure. Once in there they will spend the rut in smaller herds, and the herds cycle around what is generally a two-square mile "core" area until it's time to head down to winter range.
Another area I know is much more densely timbered with scattered open parks, and lots of ATV roads up on top. Those elk are there now, feeding in the parks and bedding in the timbered draws (not far from the ATV roads). They are in much smaller herds. But when the bowhunting pressure starts they drop down into very steep timbered bowls with lots of beetle-kill and deadfall where nobody goes - except nut-jobs like AndyJ - and they'll spend the rut in a relatively small area because the overall micro-habitat is limited.
Bowhunting pressure is the most critical factor for finding early season elk. Guys with a whitetail mentality tell me about "bumping" elk when they hunt them in mid-day with bad wind. As Andy notes, a "bump" can send them 3-4 miles if a chain-reaction starts.
I just read a paper on this, using collared herds. They found there are some that run and some that hide. The runners were 3x more likely to be harvested.
And yes even the runners know where they are at when and if they stop.
You have to remember you're hunting in their yard. Of course they have a clue. The question is does the hunter have a clue?
