Wilderness or Bust..Overated
Elk
I have read so many posts about hunters needing to go deep in the Wilderness to find an elk opposed to near a road or accessible area. How many of you back country bowhunters have connected and how many have punched a tag on a P&Y bull in those wilderness areas? Show the proof:)
Elk are where you find them.
Some people find them next to roads - some people find them deep in the backcountry. There is no *wrong* answer, just get out there and hunt them how you like to hunt them.
Whackmaster, at that point I would attribute guys going that deep for the experience, not the size of the animal.
Getting to hunt elk doing elk things, uninfluenced by road pressure and other hunters. That's the purest form.
I go in deep to avoid pressure. I hunt in the west elk wilderness and hike in 6 miles. Its nice knowing there is no one else around. Sure I am probably driving/walking buy elk. But I know I am going by elk hunters as well.
I could not agree more. Camp on a good road. Stay mobile. Scout with binoc and scope. Only hunt where the sign is steaming and you know the pattern.
Way in the back county without horses you are committed to a fairly small area on foot. You better know that it holds elk or you will be dissapointed.
I just switched computers so I can't show much proof,(I'm not sure my link will work) but I try to find the farthest, nastiest wilderness hell holes and I have connected on good bulls and I see several every year. I hunt in a very crowded unit, I just go farther than most other guys. With that said, I have seen shooter bulls really close to the truck as well. As Backcountry said a huge part of it for me is the experience. There is something about roaming the wilderness with my camp on my back, exploring areas I would never go if it was not for chasing a bugle.
However, in Colorado wilderness areas, you can literally hike into the crowds. There are plenty of incredible areas within a mile of the vehicle. It seems like lately there has been an unofficial competition of who can kill an elk the farthest from the truck.
3 MORE DAYS!!!!!!!
I hunt Wilderness so that I don't see other people, whether they be hunters or hikers. For me, the experience is much better when I can look out over a drainage and know I am the only one there. That is just elk hunting to me, I am thankful that others can find elk near roads so I can be alone.
I've been drawn to these wilderness areas for many years and they have steadily gotten more crowded...to the point I'm now looking elsewhere.
This was 10 miles into Wilderness...we were camped at 8 with 4 other camps within 300 yds of us
This bull is about 11 miles from the wilderness TH- camped at about 8-9 miles in.
So many overlooked spots though...I don't think a guy needs to go to these lengths
My buddies hunting wilderness last year saw more hunters than elk during the week. They said it was like a parade of backpack hunters, mostly from the east and Midwest. So much for solitude. They also didn't know of any elk being killed.
Meanwhile, the biggest archery bull killed last year in CO was taken in a place where ATV roads are like a bowl of spaghetti, looking down from Google Earth.
I agree. Everyone should stay out of the wilderness. There are more people there than elk.
(Now if everyone will just do that... I'll have more fun come next Monday!)
:>)
I think most people go into the wilderness just for the experience. To get further back and to be away from people and signs of normal everyday life.
Doesn't mean the hunting is better thou, like Lou mentioned some of the biggest baddest bucks and bulls I have seen have been in spots near roads and near places you wouldn't think.
Now days it seems everyone and their brother wants to backpack deep into the wilderness.
He's right guys, I think this year I will just road hunt, stopping every once in a while to let out a locator bugle or cow call from the truck. Should work well. ;)
"He's right guys, I think this year I will just road hunt, stopping every once in a while to let out a locator bugle or cow call from the truck. Should work well. ;)"
One of my partners has actually had a guy drive up on an ATV in an area where ATV's are illegal and try and shoot his Montana decoy.
I found out many years, just from whitetail hunting, most hunters walk by more game than they will ever see. The animals also know this. The last year I elk hunted in CO, I saw far more bulls within 300-yards of the road than I did back in tulies. However, hunting is about far more than just killing something. There is a lot to be said about only hearing the sounds of nature.
We hunted wilderness last year, saw 2 people in 7 days and lots of animals, going back there again on Saturday!
Straight arrow, wow that's crazy. Nothing ceases to amaze me anymore.
The thing that governs how deep I go is the temperature and my ability to get the Elk out so none of it spoils. Going deep is really great when you have backup to help get your Elk out but if you're solo and you down a huge bull six miles in chances are you are going to waste part of it.
The important thing to remember is that not all backcountry is created equal. Really, nasty terrain is the way to go. So many guys think they will hike seven miles in and find elk everywhere that have never seen a human. Its like, do the hike and an elk is your finisher's medal. That's not how you hunt the backcountry. The hunt is only beginning when you get way back, then its time to put your legs and binos to work. No one DESERVES to shoot an elk, they all need to be earned no matter how far you walked. Too many hunters think that remote terrain equals good terrain. It helps but marginally. Many times the elk in the backcountry are there because they were pushed there. They are smart are know how to avoid hunters. I'll take a nasty, steep, tangle of a hell hole two miles in over a cushy, gentle, park full of hunters ten miles in any day.
The bull of your dreams is in one of two spots: Bedded in some little old lady's back yard next to her bird feeder where he'll stay all hunting season or in the middle of the thickest, darkest, steepest timber available, where you can't make one step without him hearing you.
I think the zone itself is more of the deciding factor as to whether you'll see a lot of hunters than the distance from the truck or wilderness designation.
Both of my elk have been killed within 2 miles of the truck while the one time I went miles and miles into the CO wilderness, I saw no elk and lots of hunters. Success followed once I increased my research into zone choice.
If you have 200 square miles of wilderness in Zone A that's hit by 1000 hunters during archery season and 100 square miles of BLM or Ntl forest in Zone B that's hit by 200 hunters during archery season, what's the better place to hunt?
It's my opinion that zone selection ranks right up there in importance with scouting of the actual zone chosen for NR hunters. Locals will always have their honey holes. NR hunters need to set themselves up for success the best they can and this is doubly true when hunting a new zone where you don't have prior hunting season's experience to steer you.
AndyJ,
I totally agree. That is why going solo is causing me trouble planning a place to go.
"I'll take a nasty, steep, tangle of a hell hole two miles in over a cushy, gentle, park full of hunters ten miles in any day."
I'm with AndyJ on this one.
I killed my first elk about 6 miles in from a main FSR in Area 81 up in Wyoming when I was 18. I have taken several from a drainage in the Big Horns in Wyoming that is about 3 miles from the main FSR. I tend to agree that the going deep is definitely because of wanting the experience and or like several mentioned, to get away from other hunters. Thanks guys for your contributions and best of luck this season!!
Not everyone going in deep is looking for P&Y, some just live for the experience. I'd rather hunt hard and get it done rather than shoot a monster by blind luck. Just MY preference. To each their own---->
Ski
Nothing gets to me like stumbling into more hunters than elk. NORMALLY the farther you get off the roads the fewer folks there are. Normally. Most folks don't have the drive to do so. Too much work.
These days you might even include improved trails to the roads. As AndyJ said, going "deep" to lose the crowds may not mean so much how far in you walk as where you're walking to.
I go for the solitude nearly as much as the elk. 3 hunters coming into your bugle from 3 directions is not my idea of fun. But if a person wants to road hunt more power to them. I know some folks that do nothing but drive and glass and have a fair success rate (mostly rifle guys) Personally I won't put down the money for NR tags to go do that. It's just not the way I want to hunt. I want my money's worth and enjoy the physicality of the hunt... usually after it's done....
If you see a half dozen six horse trailers and 10 trucks parked at the "wilderness" trailhead chances are the wilderness you are walking into is more crowded than more accessible areas without the designation.
6.5 miles in (as the crow flies)
5.5 miles in (as the crow flies)
Bull on the left was 6 miles in, my bull on the right was 4 miles in... I do it cuz I HATE guessing whether a bugle is an elk or a hunter!!!
I am in a hotel in Nebraska on my way to an OTC Co. Wilderness unit that we have hunted many times. Not all wilderness areas are created equal. The terrain is rugged enough that I don't know how many more years I can hunt it. Can't post proof from here but maybe somebody could post a link to my Sept. 2011 Co. Success thread since you are a non believer:)
We rarely see others when we go here and I hope it stays that way. I think I would hunt it even if the elk were not there.
Here you go Rick.. Shoot straight----->
Hiked in about 4 miles and 2 days later hiked out with him. Hoping for a repeat this year.
I have been on a DIY wilderness elk hunt 2x with my dad. We shot 4 bulls on the two hunts. My dad shot a 315 bull and one that didn't make PnY (about 240 on the last day) and I shot 2 PnY bulls, one 285 and one 300. Farthest was about 5 miles in. I hate seeing other hunters when I am hunting - that is the reason we hunted the areas we did. It was nice not having 4-wheelers in there! That being said, I saw some good bulls on the way in that could have been hunted by guys near the road.
Lee P.s. only had one pic on this computer and it isn't a very good one.
If you see a half dozen six horse trailers and 10 trucks parked at the "wilderness" trailhead chances are the wilderness you are walking into is more crowded than more accessible areas without the designation.
For those hunting solo deep in 6+ miles how are you getting the Elk out? I'm lucky to have friends with either horses or pack frames and when one of us connects deep in we all help each other so no meat is lost,works great.That is after 25yrs of working together though.
I have yet been able to pull an Elk out in under 5 trips,most take six,that means if you're 6miles in that's a 12mile round trip 5x's, that is a total of 60 miles,72 for six trips! Given the average Sept. temps here in Idaho are 60-70 degrees you have maybe two days at the most to get that Elk on ice. Who here can do two 30-35 mile days with Elk on your back? it's not possible. How are you solo guys doing it and not wasting meat?? I'm interested to know because maybe we can all learn something.
The way we do it is by bicycle. You can sling the meat over the frame like saddle bags and push it or with a small trailer on the back and then ride it back in. Typically 3 trips. We have not lost any of the meat. We put each piece in game bags so nothing touches and string them in the shade up in trees to cool and then take them down piece by piece on the trips. It is still tough but a hell of a lot easier than on your back, which I did with caribou once. That was a miserable experience!
Lee
Lee, just curious - if you're hunting wilderness, how do you get the meat out on bicycles?
Idacurt-If you care for it properly, meat will last a pretty long time in many areas without ice. In CO at around 10,000' we have had meat do fine with zero loss for five days hanging in the shade and temps where in the 70s during the day. If you are hunting in scrub oak in Utah at the first of the season it is an entirely different story. In the mountains, find micro climates that stay shady and cool all day. A narrow spot in a drainage can have a cool breeze all day, hanging your meat near a stream can also help. I have never packed out an elk solo, but if its hot when we kill an elk, after we have the meat hanging in bags, the next thing we do is look for the best spot to shuttle the meat while we haul out loads.
Idacurt-If you care for it properly, meat will last a pretty long time in many areas without ice. In CO at around 10,000' we have had meat do fine with zero loss for five days hanging in the shade and temps where in the 70s during the day. If you are hunting in scrub oak in Utah at the first of the season it is an entirely different story. In the mountains, find micro climates that stay shady and cool all day. A narrow spot in a drainage can have a cool breeze all day, hanging your meat near a stream can also help. I have never packed out an elk solo, but if its hot when we kill an elk, after we have the meat hanging in bags, the next thing we do is look for the best spot to shuttle the meat while we haul out loads.
AndyJ,I realize under optimum conditions you can hang meat for days but on average in Sept. the temps don't always go below freezing at night,you don't always find good shade for the entire day or do you have a cool stream or spring to hang your meat over.
The point I'm trying to make and share with people heading out in the woods,coming from 25yrs of experience is that your number one priority should be respecting the beautiful Elk you just harvested by getting all the meat out un-spoiled so it can be used. Many times I have passed on bulls simply because I didn't have a way to get the elk out before it would spoil,a big lesson is knowing when to hunt close and when you can go farther in. It seems a lot of these threads are about "gettin er done" with little thought on what happens to the Elk after the trophy pictures are taken.
gil_wy that bull on the right is crazy I have never seen a rack like that that's a true trophy in my opinion something not many people ever see let alone have. good luck to all hunters this season regardless of how deep they go have fun. two more days cant wait
Here is Rick M's bull from 2011... It was a CO OTC unit!
Here is my buddies bull from 2014 CO OTC 3 miles back in camped out for 8 days.
As long as its not motorized you can use it - at least in the areas we hunted. I discussed it beforehand with the biologist in the units we hunted and they were fine with it. I actually saw some other guys doing it which gave us the idea in the first place. I have a small cart that I pull behind the bike and also slung meat over the frame bar like saddle bags.
Lee
I use llamas to get mine out... I swore years ago I would never pack an elk out on my beck again!
I have never heard of a Federally designated wilderness where anything with wheels is allowed. Someone correct me if I am wrong. The biologist may not have any problem with it but the Forest Service ranger would. Again, I am referring to USFS Wilderness.
I just like to get away from people. I hate hunting in a pumpkin patch. I do desire the experience also.
Lets just be sure everyone is talking about the same thing here.
Wilderness (CAP. W), as in federally designated Wilderness, has a name, a defined boundary and has a specific set of rules. If you were biking in the Wilderness you were likely doing so against the rules.
wilderness also can have more of a loose definition of anywhere off the beaten path. There is no real boundary or set of rules, but your "wilderness" may be within a National Forest or BLM boundary, which may have rules. If you were just in this type of wilderness then you likely weren't breaking any rules with the bike.
Trying to get an elk out on a bike in the ridiculously steep, blowdown infested holes where we harvest elk in the Wilderness areas would be funny to watch on video!
I'm with AndyJ. I boned one out the 4th afternoon after the kill with day time temps into the 70' and nights in the upper 30's, low 40's. I had to stop several time to warm my fingers to restore feeling in them they were so cold. The quarters were just hanging in the deep shade. I was at about 9000' elevation in CO.
Bikes are definitely considered mechanical in Co.
My experiences (15 years) are with AndyJ as well.
NEVER experienced spoilage in those conditions.
Lee and AndyJ couldn't have said it any better, get ALL that meat into game bags. We use about 5 bags of 50 lbs hang it in the shade and high enough to keep it away from the bears. The temps get down to about 25-30 at night and that's good enough if you have it in shade during the day. I too can't vouch for packing out myself as I'm too old for that crap anymore and use the horses. We go into wilderness about 5 miles and cover all the area on foot once up high.
Lee and AndyJ couldn't have said it any better, get ALL that meat into game bags. We use about 5 bags of 50 lbs hang it in the shade and high enough to keep it away from the bears. The temps get down to about 25-30 at night and that's good enough if you have it in shade during the day. I too can't vouch for packing out myself as I'm too old for that crap anymore and use the horses. We go into wilderness about 5 miles and cover all the area on foot once up high.
Hiked back 7-8 miles in Montana last year two days before season opened. I saw some Moose and bears but no elk (a lot of elk sign) come opening morning it looked like a highway of head lamps. You just never know any moore.
Franzen, you are right - wilderness is a loose term as it wasn't a designated wilderness area with a capital W as you said - just can't use a 4-wheeler or a truck to retrieve game as the roads are gated to limit access. Guys use horses, deer carts, bikes and backpacks to get the critters out. Locked gates discourage a lot of people. I used to deer hunt in TX on Forest Service land when I was in college and even though it was an easy walk on the road, past a 1/2 mile I had the whole place to myself. The same seems to apply for elk. Sorry for the confusion.
There are no Pope and Young elk,deer,bear,cougars etc... in wilderness areas. Do not waste your time looking for them there. I have included a picture proving a lack of Pope and Young anything there. Seriously though, no bikes allowed in federally designated wilderness areas. State laws do not apply. This is federal land.
State laws regarding the use of bikes, that is.
In Colorado I know bikes are not allowed in wilderness areas.
If I had to choose between shooting a 300 class from an atv or shooting a rag horn in the wilderness...I'd take the later. The experience is what I'm looking to experience. Some of us have been there, done that when it comes to elk...so being away from it all hunting is what I want. I wouldn't blame anyone for choosing the prior...but the wilderness is for me.
Bret
Only wilderness for me. I love hearing a bugle and knowing its an elk.
I already killed the only big one so i dont understand why everyone is putting in for wilderness areas. I'm sure 5th wheels are much more comfortable. :)
Depending on the hunt.... the farther you walk you're just getting closer to another road....
