Where would you shoot?
Elk
Well, another shot placement thread. I altered this pic to my best understanding (photo courtesy of AT) of the front leg in relation to the vitals. After reading up on all the previous threads, this is where I would shoot. So, where would you shoot?
I go an inch or two behind ur dot
Exactly right on the yellow dot.
Just right of the crease, about 2-3 inches right of the yellow dot.
As the others have said. Just to the right of the dot.
Probably that tree that's midway between his antlers and leg bone!
Yellow spot's gonna take out great vessels.
No matter the angle, I visualize the great vessels and try to put an arrow through there.
My 3 big game animals last year traveled a total of 107 yards between the 3 of them (elk 42, deer 50, deer 15).
I think no matter the angle, that's the general idea of BB's recommendation which I believe 100%. On one post with a picture of a quartered away elk, he was farther forward than just about everybody.
Putting the arrow right across the top of the heart drops animals fast.
Leg is back, I might aim an inch or so back.... but that's a good spot, hit that spot you watch him go down. Leg forward that's pretty much my spot. More a matter of expanding the target than anything.
Actually I think the scapula angles back a bit more as well? Could be cuz the leg is back.
Have to go feel up my bird dogs again..... most quadrupeds have similar frames WRT shoulder connections, a good way to visualize and feel bone structure. They think I'm just petting them.....
Looks like an easy pack out though.....
4 inches right of the dot. plenty of room for error that way
2 inches right, 2 inches up - centerpunch him. Then go look for my arrow in those shadows beyond him
Give yourself as much margin for error as possible. Like others said, aim a little further back, I say right in the middle of the oval.
5 right 2 0r three up, I would move away from the leg a little for wiggle room.
At 40 plus I would extend to 6 inches right and 4 inches up.
Why not wait until that front leg goes forward?
The more i look, I cant decide between a centerpunch or a hamblaster.......;^}
About where your dot is: Straight up from the front leg, 1/3 up the body for a full broadside shot.
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Make sure there is no one coming down the cart path before you shoot! Safety first!
They think I'm just petting them.....
TD, that's really funny. I do that all the time especially when I'm out with the horses. Little do they know I'm trying to figure out where the perfect shot is.
Straight up from the front leg, 1/3 up the body for a full broadside shot.
CurveBow, that is my shot mantra. I also think of aim for the opposite leg. Having shot and seen several animals shot right where the yellow dot is, I will always aim for that spot.
IDcurt quote, "Why not wait until that front leg goes forward?"
Because if a jogger or mother pushing her stroller on the trail spooks that bull you will never get a shot
Seriously, I would aim pretty close to that spot- probably a little bit back of it....and I always take the first good shot that I'm confident I can make since there are too many times when the wind swirls, or Murphy shows his ugly head....
Dwight schuh has an article in the recent issue of BH where he killed a bull with a DL shot that was 8" back and 3" higher than the yellow spot on the bull above. He quoted Randy Ulmer as an advocate of well back of crease, as well. Can't argue with his success on big stuff. Granted, Dwight's shot killed the bull quickly, as the lungs are thickest in that back third, BUT 4" lower and you're in the guts, liver at best. I like the forward shot.
ki-ke, I call BS....there are no articles in BH magazine! lol
I would go right there but maybe an inch or two higher to get dead center in the "V" with the on side leg in that position.
NOt sure where I would shoot him but I wouldn't shoot him off that sidewalk eating out of someones yard.
If his leg were forward I'd go for the yellow dot. As he stands in the picture a few inches back from it.
I'm holding out for a frontal. Or an over-the-hip. OK, honestly, I would gladly take any shot presented if he would just follow the sidewalk closer to where I parked my truck.
I the center of the blue oval
Yellow dot. For those that say they would wait for the leg to be forward.....The "v" actually shrinks when the leg is forward. It will not "uncover" anymore of the vitals....IMHO.
I like these threads. Good stuff.
I think when the leg moves forward the scapula may come down some and cover more of the higher zone, but pretty sure the heavy leg bone (humerus?) and socket moves forward a good deal as the leg moves forward, opens up the zone more? The "V" rotates some down and forward?
The "zone itself, the spot you want to hit doesn't move when walking... only the stuff that guards it. The point I aim to is the same as IdyllwildArcher and others according to the gospel of BB.... that bundle of arteries just over the heart. I don't aim at "the lungs", those are the back up plan if I miss my main target a bit. Pretty amazing when you do hit it. Tends to make blood trailing a bit anticlimactic.
I think you get in behind the "crease" as the "perfect" shot... you'll likely kill it, but it's going to go a good distance doing so. Pull the shot even a little farther back and it's gonna be a long week....
With grateful thanks to Jeck 66 for allowing me to reproduce his dimensioned image; this has helped my in picking a spot so much
I;m aiming right on your yellow dot.
As another said, where I would shoot would probably be into some tree behind the antlers.
Normally when I get a bull at that range, my pins are wavering over about every place you guys have mentioned.
Seriously, Barty. You have to use that kind of bull and we're supposed to look at little dots?
1st pic, anywhere in the blue oval
Barty my arrow would sail right between those antlers
*Sigh*
'Ignore antlers...use the Force...focus your energy on picking the spot'
I have also put together a similar 'dimensioned' vitals diagram based on a photo by William 'BB' Allard...tho' I reckon the heart spot may be a fraction high perhaps??
I have great fun using a blown-up version of Jeck66's diagram stuck on my target butt....helps to pick a spot out to my max distance of 60 yards [first shot of a recent session Slick Trick Magnum 125gr from my Hoyt UltraTec Twin Cam XT2000 @ 58#]
The idea of having life-size vitals really helps me focus
So using the 'full size' version, my 60 yard shot theoretically equates to the red dot...so theoretically, I am now waiting for my theoretical bull to come back from the theoretical taxidermists [at least the bill is theoretical as well!!!]
We can't hunt with our bows here in the UK but we can sure as H*ll practice with serious 'Beast Mode' intent
Good luck and good hunting to all of you afield this [elk] season
Kenneth [A British Bowhunter and Proud of It]
I'm a surgeon, so these anatomy questions are pretty interesting to me.
All you guys that are saying "behind the crease" in the first photo are WAY too far back. The perfect shot in that photo is actually an inch or two IN FRONT of that yellow dot. That will go through heart and/or (even better) great vessels coming off of it.
I'd wager fully 95% of bowhunters consistently shoot too far back on big game. The heart and great vessels (what you really want to hit) are WAY forward. Moreover, the diaphragm domes up well into the chest. It is easy to get into mostly guts/liver if you are just a few inches behind the crease, and although you'll likely be in the chest, your arrow may be in some very peripheral lung tissue that isn't as densely perfused as you'd like. When you hear stories about guys "double lunging" an elk and having it run 100+ yards, in my opinion that's because they are too far back and/or high. So they are hitting lung tissue but it's not near any really big vessels, and so it just takes a long time to do the job.
If you put an arrow 2-3 inches in front of that yellow dot on that first elk photo, it dies in sight every single time, I absolutely guarantee it.
"Dwight schuh has an article in the recent issue of BH where he killed a bull with a DL shot that was 8" back and 3" higher than the yellow spot on the bull above. He quoted Randy Ulmer as an advocate of well back of crease, as well. Can't argue with his success on big stuff. Granted, Dwight's shot killed the bull quickly, as the lungs are thickest in that back third, BUT 4" lower and you're in the guts, liver at best. I like the forward shot."
That shot, if it worked, probably hit the aorta as it arcs underneath the spine to travel into the abdomen, or possibly the vena cava or portal venous system. Any one of the three would be very rapidly fatal, but they are "lucky break" shots, not high percentage shots. The heart and great vessels really crowd the front of the chest.
One of the reasons for the v shot is if you miss a little forward, the critter lives with a leg bone hit.
Your dot shows where a hunter would love to HIT. But the idea is to be realistic and that means that where you should SHOOT is somewhere that gives you a bit more margin for error for the 100 things that can happen during and after release.
I won't bother debating where that is.
You can't shoot an elk on a sidewalk!
Mule Power X 2.
That said, I would love for my arrow to hit on the yellow dot.....
Any where in that circle and he's going to hit dirt eventually. The fastest killing shot I ever made on a bull was in the top center of the pic. Shot one at 30 yards got both lungs and watched him doing cartwheels about 20 yards after the hit and fall dead. They are big, tuff animals but hit one good and he is down fast.
