Sitka Gear
How Times Change
Elk
Contributors to this thread:
bowriter 21-Sep-14
Jaquomo 21-Sep-14
bowriter 21-Sep-14
The Old Sarge 22-Sep-14
Jaquomo 22-Sep-14
Rick M 22-Sep-14
bowriter 22-Sep-14
R. Hale 22-Sep-14
bowriter 22-Sep-14
bowriter 22-Sep-14
bowriter 22-Sep-14
Badlands 22-Sep-14
R. Hale 22-Sep-14
drycreek 22-Sep-14
The Old Sarge 22-Sep-14
The Old Sarge 22-Sep-14
Jaquomo 23-Sep-14
LckyTylr 23-Sep-14
The Old Sarge 23-Sep-14
TD 24-Sep-14
Rock 25-Sep-14
From: bowriter
21-Sep-14

bowriter's embedded Photo
bowriter's embedded Photo
A few years ago, when I was in college and living in Casper, WY, my brother-in-law suggested we go elk hunting. So I bought a license (I think it was $5), and we went up around Duboise and camped.

The next morning, I walked about a mile down a drainage and killed a small bull. B-I-l killed on that afternoon and we spent all the next day butchering and packing them back to camp. The next year, I killed a cow with first bow.

Then, I moved to Laramie and a few of us cowboys got up early one morning and went elk hunting before class. One of the other guys killed a bull.

It was over 30-years before I went elk hunting again. It sure had changed. Now, it has changed again. Now, I just read about it.

From: Jaquomo
21-Sep-14
Yep, much has changed in my 40 years of elk hunting with a bow. Not so much the explosion of hunters, but everybody has GPS with chips, satellite photos, excellent calls and calling DVDs, internet sites pointing out the best places. There are few secrets anymore.

Elk have changed in many areas too. Not unusual to see giant summer herds of hundreds lounging around on ranches with hay meadows, where back in the day they summered in smaller herds in subalpine forest-meadow habitat. Ranchers used to hate that. Now they sell the elk. Meanwhile the former summer habitat is overrun with ATVers, hikers, backpackers, mountain bikers, flower sniffers,hacky-sackers, you name it.

I see the future, and it will be young, super-fit hunters able to plunge into the backcountry and get an elk out, aging hunters who can afford private land hunts, and a bunch of former elk bowhunters content to camp in RVs in elk country, wander around in the woods a bit, maybe hear a bugle on a distant ridge, and retell old tales around the campfire.

From: bowriter
21-Sep-14
That picture is the Brazos Hole, near Tierra Amarilla, NM. I could never make that climb out today. We went and spiked out for a couple days. As I recall, we also had to carry a bull back out. I'd love to be in that kind of shape today.

That was 1995.

22-Sep-14
Been hunting 42 years. Tagged along for 5 years before that, beginning at age 7. Seen lots of changes. Not all of it good and not all of it bad.

Lately, however, it seems money is taking over. Money and greed ...

From: Jaquomo
22-Sep-14
Sarge, I'm not sure it's greed as much as a business with customers willing to pay for the experience. I just read a great story in Bugle written by Lee Marvin in 1964. It was about his outfitted elk hunt on a ranch in S. CO, and he made the point of saying it cost $350 for the week. As if that was an exorbitant cost. Which for the average hunts in '64, was a good sum, not affordable for most.

My parents paid $22k in 63 for the house in which I grew up. Today that buys a used hunting truck or a moose hunt in a good area. Or a very good elk hunt.

From: Rick M
22-Sep-14
Yeah, and I have a full head of hair in the picture with my first archery elk!!

From: bowriter
22-Sep-14
I bought my first house in Laramie for $7500. At the time, in addition to going to school, I, was playing music and rodeoing for a living. I bought a used, 1968 Cadillac with 32,000 miles for $1500. That was in '70. I made almost $29,000 that year-more than most of my professors. It was a long time before I had that much liquidity again.

During that same period, I also did a little guiding for antelope on my brother-in-law's ranch (Smith Sheep and Cattle Co) near Glenrock. I believe we got $100 a day.

From: R. Hale
22-Sep-14
Killed my first bull in SW Colorado in '81. Permit was 210 IIRC not sure. I drove out of state myself, packed it out myself. Took a couple of days. Just hunted until I found one I could get into range of and shot it. Then figured out where I was, and started packing. It was a 310" 6x6. I really did not think much about it. I was 19 years old. Just a fun trip.

From: bowriter
22-Sep-14

bowriter's embedded Photo
bowriter's embedded Photo
One weekend I would be doing this...

From: bowriter
22-Sep-14

bowriter's embedded Photo
bowriter's embedded Photo
And the next, just to make a living, I would be doing this. It was great being young.

From: bowriter
22-Sep-14

bowriter's embedded Photo
bowriter's embedded Photo
And gene, barry-How long ago was this?

From: Badlands
22-Sep-14
I was thinking about something along these lines a few weeks back. Somebody was getting on TBM about being unprepared for elk hunting because he didn't have X, Y, and Z.

I'm not old (36) but when I was 20 I hunted elk many a day with cotton camp clothing from Walmart, a $5 bugle tube, my bow and a couple of granola bars in my pocket...nothing else.

Now if you don't have the latest Kuiu clothing, super high speed bow and $700 gps you are unprepared. Nothing is wrong with any of those items. I own a few myself as they make the experience better, but we often have a tendency to overcomplicate.

From: R. Hale
22-Sep-14
I think that was me. Point was he did not have pack, boots or binoculars. Pretty basic stuff. I did not specify any specific or expensive gear, just something to carry out meat with and put on your feet.

From: drycreek
22-Sep-14
X2 Badlands

Old TBM got it done without all the latest gadgets. Where there's a will........

22-Sep-14
Jaquomo, I was not referring to typical guide/outfitter fees. The greed comes in with people that want to limit other hunters to one deer or elk hunt every three years so they can have a chance at bigger antlers when THEY hunt. They don't worry about the years off because they can pay tens of thousands of dollars a year to hunt in other states while they wait for the opportunity to come back to where they've limited everybody else ... many of whom cannot afford the tens of thousands of dollars.

Greed comes in when landowners are not satisfied with the tags F&G gives them for providing habitat. They lobby for more and more so they can sell them at thousands of dollars a tag ... with NONE of the money going back to F&G ... and none of it going to improve the habitat they provide. In other words, just making money off a public resource. The very worst of them lock up public land so no one can access it and they can charge their "customers" to cross their land ... picking and choosing who they allow.

Greed is far different than honest commerce.

22-Sep-14
Just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean you SHOULD do it.

From: Jaquomo
23-Sep-14
Sarge, agreed. We have that growing problem with privatization of public tags going on here in CO, and it's only going to get worse when we have outfitters and ranchers with heavy influence appointed to the Parks and Wildlife Commission, who push to limit public comment and public hearings on the topic. Talk about the foxes being put in charge of the henhouse...

From: LckyTylr
23-Sep-14
From Jaquomo: "I see the future, and it will be young, super-fit hunters able to plunge into the backcountry and get an elk out, aging hunters who can afford private land hunts, and a bunch of former elk bowhunters content to camp in RVs in elk country, wander around in the woods a bit, maybe hear a bugle on a distant ridge, and retell old tales around the campfire."

I think you nailed it. I just turned 28, so I have only been hunting for 16 years, but even I have seen the changes listed above. I used to gain access to farms to hunt simply by driving around in the summer and stopping to help farmers put up hay, mend fence, pick rocks or dig post holes. I wouldn't even have to ask half the time, we'd finish up with a task and they'd just tell me "I see a lot of deer up in the SW field coming out by the creek bottom, you can hunt if you'd like".

I have only been hunting elk for 5 years and the ONLY way I know how to consistently get into elk is to hike in further than 90% of people are willing to pack one out. That means that if the average group of hunters, let's say 4 guys, are willing to pack a bull out 2 miles as a team, then I need to get back in there 2.5+ miles and pack a bull out solo because none of my friends are willing to put that much effort into hunting. Then . . . I run into horses. Nothing against guys that hunt with horses, but it's just one more expense of hunting that I can't afford throughout the year or even just to rent for the season. I'm not yet willing to simply camp in elk country (or what used to be elk country), I still have the fire to pursue them, but don't have the pockets to do it with relative ease. I see the hunts that my boss' goes on . . . Wow, amazing animals, picture-perfect scenery, all on horses or ATV's, and they get giants every year. Must be nice. I can't say I won't be doing the exact same thing some day if I can afford it. Drawing a tag is awesome, but you still need resources to truly capitalize on it.

Sorry for the intrusion, I'm just a young'un poking the bears. :-)

23-Sep-14
LckyTylr, don't apologize. You're not intruding ... and your opinions are just as valid as anyone's.

From: TD
24-Sep-14
Likely didn't spend near the time on the internet.... =D

A large part is there is now a wealth of info at your fingertips.

When I started bowhunting in the early 70's all we had was the occasional Outdoor Life/Field and Stream article. No one in our area knew anything about archery, the sporting goods stores were barely stocking anything. Our best arrows were those that had all three feathers on them. When we started bowhunting those CA blacktails everybody pretty much laughed at us, told us it couldn't be done. Wound up taking a little forky in my second year, but only went out a couple times in my first. A very stupid deer at that, fit well with a stupid bowhunter.

Now you can get help or info in literally minutes from people, sometimes world class bowhunters/archers. Info on what is good gear, what is crap, from the folks using it. Where to go for what animal, where to apply (like "applying" was a hard thing in days of old...) maps emailed to you, gps points downloaded.

And gear..... coming form someone who has to fly with his entire camp for two weeks..... the difference is night and day. Tents, sleeping bags, measured in ozs. Nobody used to count in anything but multiples of lbs.

I can carry in hunting gear and a camp on my own back that is near equal to a couple horses 40 years ago. And pack out pretty much anything I need to on the back end as well.

That has opened up a whole new world to the DIY that just really wasn't that possible but for an elite few in days gone by. Remember those old Fred Bear et. al. hunts were MONTHS long all totaled up, travel, etc. How many here can be gone MONTHS away on a hunt?

Yeah, things do change. Not all for the bad IMO.

From: Rock
25-Sep-14
I never use to think about where I was when I got into the Elk was only concerned with killing them. Now I take into consideration how far I have to pack it and if I can get help with it.

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