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Contributors to this thread:
bdfrd24v 01-Oct-14
NoWiser 01-Oct-14
elkmtngear 01-Oct-14
stick n string 01-Oct-14
Bogey 01-Oct-14
Z Barebow 01-Oct-14
wild1 01-Oct-14
Elitist Bowhunter 01-Oct-14
LBshooter 01-Oct-14
idacurt 01-Oct-14
kentuckbowhnter 01-Oct-14
sureshot 01-Oct-14
Keywadin 01-Oct-14
AndyJ 01-Oct-14
drycreek 01-Oct-14
Bou'bound 01-Oct-14
TREESTANDWOLF 01-Oct-14
Gene 01-Oct-14
bdfrd24v 01-Oct-14
writer 01-Oct-14
gogittem 02-Oct-14
Mint 02-Oct-14
Fuzzy 02-Oct-14
flybyjohn 02-Oct-14
QDMAMAN 02-Oct-14
flybyjohn 02-Oct-14
JusPassin 02-Oct-14
cityhunter 02-Oct-14
Gene 02-Oct-14
Mule Power 02-Oct-14
mn_archer 02-Oct-14
Bogey 02-Oct-14
ridgerunnerron 04-Oct-14
bdfrd24v 05-Oct-14
ridgerunnerron 06-Oct-14
Mad Trapper 07-Oct-14
cityhunter 29-Oct-14
ohiohunter 30-Oct-14
Jim in PA 30-Oct-14
lareva 30-Oct-14
kellyharris 31-Oct-14
mixed bag 02-Nov-14
HeadHunter® 03-Nov-14
Bogey PA 10-Dec-14
Medicinemann 10-Dec-14
bdfrd24v 10-Dec-14
Hammer 10-Dec-14
wild1 10-Dec-14
WesHunts 10-Dec-14
AndyJ 10-Dec-14
willliamtell 10-Dec-14
Rayzor 10-Dec-14
Fuzzy 11-Dec-14
Gene 11-Dec-14
From: bdfrd24v
01-Oct-14

bdfrd24v's Link
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2014/09/third_largest_bull_elk_ever_re.html

Absolute shame what some people do in their free time. PA draws a handful of tags a year. One of the few things the PGC did was get the heard on the way back.

One would have been 3rd largest ever if harvested legally.

From: NoWiser
01-Oct-14
Bring back public flogging

From: elkmtngear
01-Oct-14
I hope they lock those guys up for a good long time.

01-Oct-14
Scumbags is waaaaaaaaay too nice a word....

From: Bogey
01-Oct-14
The Pennsylvania Game Commission announced today that three Centre County men have been charged with poaching three elk - including one of the largest bull elk ever recorded in Pennsylvania.

According to the Game Commission, the largest of the three bulls had a 10- by 9-point non-typical rack that initially was measured at 432 7/8 inches, based on standards set forth by the Boone & Crockett big-game scoring program. At that score, and if the bull had been legally harvested, it would rank as Pennsylvania's third-largest bull elk ever.

The other two illegally killed elk included a 5- by 7-point bull measuring 243 1/8 inches and a 4- by 5-point bull measuring 178 3/8 inches.

The Game Commission said the three elk were killed in Karthaus Township, Clearfield County, over two nights earlier this month.

The Game Commission has charged Frank Gordo Buchanan Jr., 25, and Jeffrey Scott Bickle, 46, both of Bellefonte; and Cody Allen Lyons, 20, of Milesburg.

If the men are convicted in the incident, the Game Commission said it will seek $11,500 in replacement costs for the illegally killed elk. Additionally, each man faces thousands of dollars in fines, with the maximum potential fine exceeding $13,000.

The Game Commission said Buchanan is accused of shooting all three bulls at night from a vehicle.

The investigation began, according to the Game Commission, after an illegally killed elk was discovered Sept. 9 by a resident nearby. The antlers had been removed, but most of the carcass was left behind.

According to the Game Commission, the subsequent investigation resulted in the three men being arrested on Sept. 15 in a pickup truck in an area where multiple elk could be heard bugling and a gunshot was heard by a wildlife conservation officer.

The Game Commission said that Buchanan admitted to killing an elk and led them to a home where officers found a sawed-off set of antlers that matched the skull plate of a poached bull.

A subsequent search in the area revealed two more dead elk. The Game Commission said Buchanan intended to sell the antlers on eBay.

Buchanan and Lyons are charged in the Sept. 8 and Sept. 15 incidents. Bickle is charged only in relation to the two bulls killed on Sept. 15. Each man faces multiple charges, the most severe being misdemeanor counts of unlawful killing of big game.

Game Commission spokesman Travis Lau said the elk were killed out of season.

"Elk are not yet in season. We have a very limited number of elk licenses that we allocate each year and this year that number is 108, that are awarded by lottery. These three gentlemen were not licensed hunters and took these three elk, based on our allegations, in a closed season. The method of their take, particularly pulling up in a vehicle, shooting while spotlighting, shooting from a vehicle, all of those actions are illegal as well," Lau said.

A preliminary hearing for the men is scheduled for Oct. 29 at the Clearfield County Jail.

From: Z Barebow
01-Oct-14
It would be nice if these guys were bugling from prison. (Catcher not pitcher!)

From: wild1
01-Oct-14
Horrible.

01-Oct-14
It's getting SPOOKY in PA

From: LBshooter
01-Oct-14
Jail for all of them ,send a message to any future scumbags. Also, lifetime ban on hunting in the states and Canada. Make examples out of these fools.

From: idacurt
01-Oct-14
Pat,I was told by fish & game here in Idaho that they can't give stiffer penalties when people do much worse in public and get away with a lot less? It's a joke what Elk poachers get away with here.

01-Oct-14
they should do some time and lose their hunting privileges at a minimum.

From: sureshot
01-Oct-14
Unfortunately, most of these poachers don't have much anything of value to take from them.

From: Keywadin
01-Oct-14
Have the state go to their Tyvek wrapped sh*%hole that they live in and take the brand new quads and sleds that are probably sitting in the front yard with the rest of their garbage.

From: AndyJ
01-Oct-14
They should beat them with those antlers. It makes me sick to see complete pieces of - get a slap on the wrist. Heaven forbid they pick up the classifieds and look for a real job. They had to try to take the easy way out...I could go on for days about this type of thing.

From: drycreek
01-Oct-14
The shame of all this is that the general public may call these bastards hunters.

From: Bou'bound
01-Oct-14
there is one extremely aggregious inaccuracy in that story.

It is in this sentence.........."These three gentlemen were not licensed hunters and took these three elk, based on our allegations, in a closed season."

Gentlemen????????????????????

01-Oct-14
Agree Bou! Plus 5-10 years community service.

Absolute shame.

From: Gene
01-Oct-14
Douchbags is more like it! I hope they are given the stiffest penalty possible. With the limited draw in PA, to have 3 bulls like that taken out, is an outrage! These words are coming from a non resident of PA that has been applying for one of their coveted tags since the beginning of the PA elk hunts. Fine the living hell out of them, lose their hunting privileges for life and lite bamboo splints on fire under their fingernails!

From: bdfrd24v
01-Oct-14
It's so infuriating that people does this sort of thing. I just sold a house to a PGC officer and he was telling me all the crap going on. I have a call into him about these elk to see what is up. This summer over 18 fawn were found dumped with the loins only removed. Small caliber bullets to the head. Clearly people did some kind of spotlight killing spree. It's unreal. The sheer waste and disrespect to animals is uncalled for. I was real upset about these elk. I've got a good friend that got a tag this year and what a waste. We have a cop killer that has shut down a large area of hunting grounds in the Poconos. We've got poachers, etc. It's starting to be shameful to live in PA.

I could rant for hours but I know you guys are the good guys.

From: writer
01-Oct-14
Under the Kansas sentencing formula, restitution for that biggest bull, alone, would be $99,458, not to mention the other bulls, plus fines for the laws that were broken

423-200=223x223=49,729x2 = 99,458.

BUT what are the chances these low-lifes have that kind of money? If they have kids, the courts won't put them away for a lot of years and/or sell off their house and vehicles.

Bogey, you need to post credit for whatever publication originally ran that text. Right now there are some copyright issues if you don't. :-)

From: gogittem
02-Oct-14
I caught that too Boubound. "gentleman" and what in the hell is "according to our allegations" supposed to mean? It makes it sound like there is an element of doubt when there clearly isn't!

From: Mint
02-Oct-14
Yes the penalties are too low. PA sportsmen need to speak up and get the laws changed.

From: Fuzzy
02-Oct-14
@$#%A&*s!

From: flybyjohn
02-Oct-14
Common yall, you know the gov-n-ment aint given them enough money if they have to be killing elk for horns to sell on ebay.

I do feel sorry for their wives and children (if any)who will suffer more than the men who have done this.

I don't think they should be looking at the antlers to determine the fines however. I think they should be looking at the waste of the animal more. Leaving the meat shows me that the family was not starving. Selling the antlers on ebay was probably just made up by the poacher to make himself look poor and in despirate need of money. I am sure he just needed to have that big rack.

From: QDMAMAN
02-Oct-14
Pure greed!

From: flybyjohn
02-Oct-14
I say open the laws up to take the toys. (extra vehicles, atvs, big screen tvs, rifles, handguns, and their trigger fingers.

From: JusPassin
02-Oct-14
If they like to shoot at night, send them to Syria. One way tickets.

From: cityhunter
02-Oct-14
I agree with many but what I find strange is if these 3 were famous celebs hunters many on this site would defend them !! But since they are just 3 avg joes from PA they should hang

From: Gene
02-Oct-14
Cityhunter - When Ted Nugent got busted a few years ago, I sure didn't give him any slack on Bowsite. Whether you break the law and plead ignorance (as Ted did) or you are a low life poacher as these clowns are, you should pay the piper!

From: Mule Power
02-Oct-14
WTF! On top of those fines and replacement cost I say JAIL. I'd give my right nut for a Pa elk tag. I may never draw one but if I ever did I guess I won't have a chance at that bull. They robbed every hunter in this state and others.

This isn't the first time either. Fines no matter the amount don't deter people from doing similar things. The best way to make it the last is to use those aholes to set an example that will make anyone else who might think of this decide it's definitely not worth it. 10 years!!!!

From: mn_archer
02-Oct-14
I only have one problem with the stiffer fines you all are calling for- we let people off in 2 years for the murder of a human!

I wish those 3 would come to mn and kill off all the elk so the dnr would quit wasting money on them.

get the penalties for crimes against people up and then jack up the poaching fines all you want

michael

From: Bogey
02-Oct-14
I say tie them to a tree at the pa elk viewing center with a montana decoy glued to there forehead and a see how long they last!

04-Oct-14
A lot of fines given are way too low for most offenses that take human lives...or poach exceptional animals.

From: bdfrd24v
05-Oct-14
Well I'm not sure what an "appropriate" punishment should be but I'm certain the PA fine structure is well passed outdated. It's been interesting hearing the local chatter on this as well.

I tend to agree with Pat that I don't want jail time. I don't want to pay for this douchebag to live in jail. I'm a fan of $$ and lots of community service. He can clean roads for 1000hrs in the dead of winter for all I care. Shovel out the elderly. Pick your poison.

06-Oct-14
X4 on minimal jail time, let 'em get a little taste of that life there...but they should have to pay thousands more in cash than what was stated...and even more in community service!

From: Mad Trapper
07-Oct-14
Very sad. If I were king they would get one month for a trial and appeal and, if convicted, they would hang on day 31. Since I am not king, I would support much steeper fines. The elk population in PA is an unbelievable success story due to a lot of hard work on the part of many individuals. If you want to support PA's continued success, you should become a member of the Keystone Elk Country Alliance. They are ran by a great bunch of people. Can't say enough good about them.

From: cityhunter
29-Oct-14
Mad trapper when were elk roaming around PA , I saw two bulls last june they seem nothing like the elk out west vey timid tame like !

From: ohiohunter
30-Oct-14
City, I wonder if their tame behavior is due to only being hunted a few months a year vs year round out west, mtn lions?

I watched a heard of elk on my trail cam over water and to call them skitish was an understatement. They were afraid of their own shadows. I also hunted over different water and watched 3 muleys act the same way.

From: Jim in PA
30-Oct-14

Jim in PA's Link
Madtrapper is right about Keystone Elk Country Alliance. Great group that has done a lot in the time they have been in existence. I only started going up there last year but it will be an annual trip from now on. With the amount of people within a 5-6 hour drive it is hard to believe how few people know the elk are there. I think the elk anywhere around the visitor center are very use to people therefore they come across as tame.

From: lareva
30-Oct-14
Hate to disagree with Sureshot's statement about poachers usually don't have anything of value to take in regard to equipment, etc. We did a survey here in Missouri when I was still a C.O. and found that close to 90% of poachers were classified as "Blue Collar Workers. Which means that they were employed and making decent salaries. Usually had a very nice firearm or bow, driving a fairly new 4x4 truck and plenty of beer available and lived in a fairly modern nice house. The guy who really needed the meat for his family was listed as about one per cent or less. The white collar duds were in the 10% category. Don't know if those figures have changed lately but I doubt it. lareva

From: kellyharris
31-Oct-14
WOW had they been in Ohio and those were equal whitetail bucks they would have each had 12500.00 fine for each animal. SO each one would have paid 37,000.00 and lost hunting privelages for life and the weapons and automibiles.

Ohio has gotten very aggresive on poachers in the last three years.

From: mixed bag
02-Nov-14
Cityhunter, you are 100% spot on about the pa elk herd.So you guys are telling me you would be proud of a 400"+ bull you could shoot out of someones yard??I'd rather hunt raghorns in any state then waste a trip here in Pa.Yes, we have monster bulls that are basically tame.It only takes reading through our stats each year to figure out how tough this hunt really is.I'm a elk hunting nut and have no desire to enter the Pa elk draw.Sure its 2 hours from me rather then 28 hours.And, I'm almost certain to take a 400" bull.But I'd rather hunt wild animals then the Pa elk.These guys did take from the hunters of the state that choose to enter this hunt so I do agree with jail and big fine.I just don't think you can put it in the same category as someone taking a 400" bull from say Co.That would be a rare bull there but 400 is average here

From: HeadHunter®
03-Nov-14
'people' are To Soft now .....jail & fine or community service? .... The 'criminal' knew what he was doing when he did the deed. You play you Pay! .... we as a nation are to tolerant of criminals! (jmho)

From: Bogey PA
10-Dec-14
--from PGC website--

GUILTY PLEA IN TROPHY ELK-POACHING CASE Bellefonte man sentenced to up to 18 months in jail, more than $20,000 in fines and costs.

A Bellefonte man has been sentenced to spend up to 18 months in jail and pay more than $20,000 in fines and costs after pleading guilty Wednesday to poaching three bull elk, one of them among the largest on record in Pennsylvania. Left, to right, WCOs Dan Murray, Dave Stewart and Mark Gritzer, and Northcentral Region Law Enforcement Supervisor Rick Macklem pose with the antlers seized in the poaching investigation that has led to charges against three Centre County men. The 10- by 9-point rack at right initially was measured at 432 7/8 inches, based on standards set forth by the Boone & Crockett big-game scoring program. Only two bulls legally harvested in Pennsylvania have scored higher. The rack from the 5-by-7 bull is at left, and the sawed-off antlers from the 4-by-5 can be seen in front of it. Get Image

Frank Gordo Buchanan Jr., 25, pleaded guilty Wednesday to three counts of unlawful taking of big game, and one count each of unlawful taking of game, unlawful use of a vehicle to take game, and unlawful use of an artificial light to take game. As part of the plea agreement accepted by Magisterial District Judge Jerome M. Nevling, of Kylertown, Buchanan will spend three to 18 months in the Clearfield County Jail and pay $9,550 in fines. Additionally, he is responsible for paying $11,500 in replacement costs for the poached elk, two of which are classified as trophy-class animals. Two other men charged in the incident waived their rights to preliminary hearings on charges, sending their cases to county court. If they are convicted of unlawful taking of big game, they, too, would be required to contribute to replacement costs. The charges against Buchanan stem from two nights of poaching in the same area of Karthaus Township, Clearfield County, in September. Buchanan had admitted to shooting all three elk. The largest of the three bulls had a 10- by 9-point non-typical rack that initially was measured at 432 7/8 inches, based on standards set forth by the Boone & Crockett big-game scoring program. At that score, and if the bull had been legally harvested, it would rank as Pennsylvania’s third-largest bull elk ever. The other two illegally killed bulls included a 5- by 7-point bull measuring 243 1/8 inches and a 4- by 5-point bull measuring 178 3/8 inches. Game Commission Executive Director R. Matthew Hough spoke to the severity of the charges filed in the case. Hough said he is pleased the case against Buchanan was speedily resolved, and acknowledged the penalty is justified. “Elk are an extremely important resource in Pennsylvania,” Hough said. “People travel hundreds of miles just to visit the elk range and be able to witness their majesty and the marvel of the bugling season, and those people support a lot of local businesses there. It’s no different with elk hunters. Some apply each year for a chance at an elk license, and those who are lucky enough to get one also create an economic boon for many northcentral Pennsylvania towns. In fact, the hunter who paid $41,000 for the license auctioned off by the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation – a sum that will be used in its entirety to fund conservation efforts in Pennsylvania – was hunting the very record-book elk that was poached. “That, right there, shows you the value of Pennsylvania elk, and reinforces the logic that the penalties for killing one illegally need to be appropriately stiff,” he said. The first of the illegally killed bulls – the 4-by-5 – was discovered Sept. 9 by a resident nearby. The antlers had been removed, but most of the carcass was left to lay there. Wildlife Conservation Officer Mark Gritzer initiated an investigation and extracted a 7 mm bullet from the elk’s shoulder, according to court documents filed with Nevling. On Sept. 15, Gritzer, working night patrol, returned to the area where the bull was killed. At about 9 p.m., he parked in an area overlooking a reclaimed strip mine where multiple elk could be heard bugling. Within 15 minutes, he saw a pickup approach. Its occupants appeared to be spotlighting recreationally, but, suspiciously, the driver would turn off the headlights each time the pickup stopped, the documents indicate. At about 9:45 p.m., a single gunshot erupted from the area of the pickup. Gritzer activated the emergency lights on his patrol vehicle, and drove to the location where the pickup was sitting parked with its headlights off. When Gritzer’s backup, WCO Dave Stewart, arrived at the scene, he found a 7 mm rifle lying on the ground nearby. Not only was the rifle consistent with the caliber used to kill the 4-by-5 bull on Sept. 9, a handsaw caked with elk hair and tissue also was found in the pickup, according to court documents. Buchanan admitted to shooting at a large bull elk, and two other men in the vehicle – Jeffrey Scott Bickle, 46, of Bellefonte, and Cody Allen Lyons, 20, of Milesburg – were arrested alongside Buchanan. Because a fog had moved in, the officers decided to wait to try to find the elk. Instead, they accompanied Buchanan, Lyons and Bickle to the state police barracks in Woodland for fingerprinting, at which time Buchanan admitted to killing 4-by-5 bull on Sept. 9, court documents state. At 2 a.m., he led Gritzer and Stewart to a trailer home in Milesburg, where he retrieved a sawed-off set of antlers that perfectly matched the skull plate on the poached bull, according to the documents. At 7:30 a.m., Gritzer and Stewart returned to the arrest scene to search for the larger bull at which Buchanan admitting shooting, the documents state. They quickly found the 10-by-9, which had been shot in the neck with a 7 mm. And within sight, about 350 yards away, the 5-by-7 lay dead. Further investigation indicated the men had killed the 5-by-7 at about 8:15 that night and left the area to go to the town of Snow Shoe and get a chainsaw to remove the antlers, according to the documents. Gritzer arrived after they had left, and when they returned, they encountered the 10-by-9, the documents state. Buchanan, at that time, admitted to killing the third bull, as well, and told the officers he had intended to sell the antlers on eBay, court documents state. Lyons is charged in the Sept. 8 and Sept. 15 incidents. Bickle is charged only in relation to the two bulls killed on Sept. 15. Lyons faces three counts each of unlawful taking of big game; unlawful use of a vehicle to take game; unlawful presence of a loaded firearm in a vehicle; and unlawful use of artificial light to take game ; as well as one count of unlawful taking of game. Bickle faces two counts each of unlawful taking of big game; unlawful use of a vehicle to take game; unlawful presence of a loaded firearm in a vehicle; and unlawful use of artificial light to take game; as well as one count of vehicle operation to avoid identification. The men are to appear Nov. 19 in Clearfield County court for their formal arraignment on charges.

###

From: Medicinemann
10-Dec-14
18 months and $20,000 is a pretty decent deterent....hope it makes others stop and consider the consequences.....

From: bdfrd24v
10-Dec-14
I certainly hope so as well. A shame to see this happen.

I'm happy that he also finally took ownership of this crime and didn't cost the taxpayers any more with a trial.

Hopefully he learns from this, and others learn from this before they do something so asinine.

From: Hammer
10-Dec-14
That's the kind of penalty I was talking about months ago that is needed in poaching cases.

From: wild1
10-Dec-14
The only thing I didn't like about the penalty was "……three to 18 months in jail." Which means, he could possibly only spend 3 months in jail (plus the fines).

From: WesHunts
10-Dec-14
Good. Hope PA slams it in their butts and throws the book at them.

From: AndyJ
10-Dec-14
I bet he spends three months in jail and pays minimum fine. He should haver to pay back that $41,000.00 plus jail time.

From: willliamtell
10-Dec-14
My two cents - the only thing that really registers is jail. Egregious offenders like these need to be landed on hard. They didn't have licenses, but there should be a lengthy revocation of being able to hunt (legally). Weapons gone. Truck, maybe.

From: Rayzor
10-Dec-14
Wow. 423 is 3rd largest.

I have been heading up for a few to photograph them the last 3 years. I seen and photographed so big ones but thats huge.

Those guys could never handle a giant fine and if they could afford that it wouldn't mean nearly as much to them as the lower fine plus some jail time plus a few thousand hours of community service.

From: Fuzzy
11-Dec-14
be nice if we could auction off tags to hunt the poachers, and use the proceeds to benefit the elk herds (kidding) (kinda) (uh, not really)

From: Gene
11-Dec-14
Jail time and big fines - sounds good to me!

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