Elk Hunting in Grizzly Country
Elk
This has me thinking a little more about that bear spray bear gun debate.
http://www.foxnews.com/science/2014/11/24/gps-study-tracks-grizzlies-as-follow-hunters/?intcmp=trending
Very interesting!
"In the most clearly detailed example, a group of hunters turned on their GPS devices moments after leaving a parking area at around 6 a.m. When scientists analyzed their movements later and contrasted them with those of a nearby grizzly, it became clear the bear was tailing them.
The bruin stayed downwind of the hunters, at one point coming within 100 yards of them as they moved around a lake. At around noon, the bear bedded down for a nap, but easily picked up the hunters’ trail again when it awoke, according to the report.
Scientists tracked the bear as it appeared to smell an elk carcass from 4 miles away, follow the scent and even wound up swimming across the lake to get to it, according to the report."
Well played, Mr. Grizzly !
So now, once they finally give us some Grizz tags, my DIY plan can be to pose as a rifle elk hunter, be really loud, walk out into the woods, hang a stand out of Grizz reach and have the bow in it, walk another fifty yards, shoot a rifle shot into the air, hustle back to my stand that already has my bow in it, and wait.
Smarter than the average bear!
Idyl
You forgot about the eau de gutpile to seal the deal - coming soon from a hunt scent purveyor near you. A problem is it appears there may be more than one bear at the same time playing the game. Nail one and you just added to the scent highway for the next one to follow.
Interesting thing about the study is it 'proves' what hunters have been saying for some time - bears are homing in on hunters.
last year I didn't see any grizz sign but in a day of killing my elk I had a grizz track me to were I skull caped the bull. His tracks then went towards the carcass !
As one of the guys who has always preached bear spray, after this fall, If at all possible, I will not be following up or breaking down an elk without a shotgun handy.
Didn't follow my own rules. 3 of us were kneeling, skinning/breaking down a friend's bull. Luckily we heard an elk bugle and all looked up. A very large sow and 2 year-old cubs were 25 yards out and walking in silently. By the time we grabbed spray and started backing off, they were at 15 yards. I was staring her in the face while dragging my pack and reaching for my spray. They never broke stride. Luckily she didn't charge until we were 40 yards out and holding our ground. Lost the kid's first bull and the sow just taught 2 more Griz to have no respect for humans.
If we hadn't looked up when we did, there would have been a mauling with 3 seconds or so. Total luck. For all who hunt in grizzly country, please let this serve as a reminder to always keep an eye out if you're by yourself, and if there's more than one person, make sure one is always looking around.
I learned never part with your weapon , this year I put my pistol on the bull while I worked on it bad idea , I instantly put it back in my holster , in case a grizz charged me and pulled me off the elk at least I still have my gun on me ! get a big gun and big life Ins !!!!
Any grizzly that deliberately approaches within 50 yards of me clearly knowing that I'm there and that I'm a human is getting shot at with intent to kill. I consider it self defense and a public service to the next human being.
Wow, Ron, that's scary! Sorry the bull was lost but glad no one got hurt. I imagine that anyone who hunts in grizz country as much as you is bound to have some close encounters.
city, you should tether that gun!
I wouldn't have expected 3 men with bear spray not stand their ground and spray andsave the meat. Having been sprayed I just don't think anyything can wade through that stuff... it's nasty.
Ron I'd say you did pretty damn good in your situation, and thankfully your able to tell the account !
TBM, In the bear (brown variety) world possession is 10/10 of the law, once they have that meat your not gettin it back !
I know Ron and if he's not breaking down an elk without a gun then I'm not going to any more either! Guess I have to start carrying spray and an gun...
Ron, did any of you spray the bear(s)? If not, why?
It happens all the time up here in Alaska. About 10 years ago while on a sheep hunt on the Kenai penninsula I had a grizz charge to 50 and then in to 25 yards. After He followed me for over 2 miles despite my having put a bunch of shots with my rifle over his head and into the ground in front of him.
Another time watched a friend while deer hunting on Montague Island have a grizz follow him for over a mile, and my friend never knew the bear was there despite the bear being within only 25 yards away at times.
When I worked on the west side of Kodiak Island, deer Hunters often had brownies come in to the deer they just shot.
Another time, on my first moose hunt 26 years ago, I had just shot my moose, gutted it, hiked the first load out, and when I came back for another load, I made a lot of noise and a grizz had come in to within 50 yards. Wow stayed that distance for the next 6 hours till all that was left was the bones and guts.
Like I said. Happens all the time.
Hey Ike, we all had to scramble for our spray. Like I said, I broke my own rules and did not have spray on me and we had no-one looking out. It was 3 in the afternoon and we were talking and making noise.
When you're backing up, trying to grab spray and have a momma Grizzly walking in at 15 yards and a dead elk between, you don't think about trying to spray, just want some distance at that point. Once we got to a clearing at 40 yards, we held our ground, but from then on, she only bluff charged and stopped just short of bear spray range.
Nobody with any experience or brains is going to walk back in at that point and try to bear spray 3 bears off of a carcass, especially with them in hyperphasia mode, well nobody but TBM apparently. If we did that, there's no way we could have worked in the bear sprayed area anyway......
While hunting Elk last year in Northwestern Wyoming, my friend Shawn & i were hiking back to our camp the first night we were there. We spotted a Grizzly about 400 yards away in a meadow walking in our direction. He was downhill from us, so we thought we could pass him without him even knowing we were there. Let me tell you, before we knew it he was in front of us about 60 yards. Shawn spotted him first & told me he was right in front of us. As soon as he said that, the bear was at a full charge at us. we both had bear spray & were ready to use it. we were yelling at the top of our lungs at the thing, when he stopped and stood on his back legs looking at us with the fur on his back standing up. We kept yelling and he finally turned to walk off, then he came at us again. We stood our ground and he turned and left. He came to around 35 yards, not close enough to spray him. I didnt sleep very well that night in my tent. Those things have know fear of humans. This was only 10 miles from where the guy was killed by a grizzly this year.
Welcome to the new western elk hunts. The people who want these durn things in the woods NEVER go in the woods.
Cityhunter, the picture you posted is with 100% certainty that of a black bear.
One thing rarely mentioned about spray is the effective range. Or the ability to fire a warning shot...
npaul makes great sense to me.
Talking to folks with fist hand experience in grizz country.... I'm packing some serious firepower first... with possibly a spray backup.
"Cityhunter, the picture you posted is with 100% certainty that of a black bear."
Those were my tracks, walking on the balls of my feet with toes curled for better traction.
I don't hunt grizz country much any more but when I do go I take a dog that will chase and in some cases bite a grizz on the ass as they run away. I have seen more 50 pound dogs run grizz off of kills and out of your vicinity than any gun shot or pepper spray. The best type dogs are something that is bread to bite and or chase critters like the Blue Heeler or a Black Mouthed Cur. If you teach them to heel at your side there is no problem taking a dog bow hunting.
I still pack Bertha with my own hand loads but never have had the need for her.
Her are the twisted sisters I keep around just for these occasions plus they keep undesirable off the property.
Veron is correct ive seen more then one hunter in the backwoods of wy with dogs for protection!
In 2008 I rifle hunted with a general tag solo around the Jackson Hole area. My tag was only good in the NF. Could not hunt the wilderness areas as a non-resident. I saw more Griz sign then elk. Got close to several moose, free range buffalo and within 40 yds. of 9 bighorn sheep (lambs and ewes)The only elk I saw were inside the Teton park,200 head crossed in front my truck once. On 3 occasions I had griz tracks in my tracks when returning to the rig? I felt watched and basically hunted like a pussy even with a rifle! That is how I came up with my handle...."LaGriz". LOL! Had wolves howling once while walking out in the dark. After that I never ended up going in before daylight or staying after dark. Really wished I had a partner on that hunt. I have bowhunted in Colorado & New Mexico and feel just fine while solo. Kind of prefer to hunt that way, although I do like to share meals and a camp with a buddy given a choice. My 2 cents
Statistically speaking, bringing a dog along is a good way to increase your odds of a negative encounter with a bear. If a bear beats you to your kill it is his kill... not yours. You are trespassing in the bear's woods. Respect him or hunt elsewhere. Remember he was there before you.
Npaul, your concept of shooting a bear that is at 50 yards is really just sad. That bear is an endangered species and most likely poses no threat to you whether within 50 or 10 yards. If you kill a bear in such negligence you should be prepared to prove self defense or you can face criminal charges for your actions. There are far more dangerous things to concern your self with than a bear. Your odds of getting attacked are about the same as that of winning the lotto jack pot. probably far less. Arm your self with knowledge. It will serve you far better than entering the woods with your current mindset.
If they are so "endangered", why did he see more griz sign than elk?
As hunters we take the risk to enter the woods. We are in their territory and we have to respect that. Just like when a bear enters into towns/cities, we run them off. They do the same to us when we enter their home. Plain and simple. We don't own the woods.
Check out Mountain maniac other opinions at the link. Certainly everyone has a right to their own opinion, I continue to disagree with yours. Thinking anti-hunter "posing" amongst us at this point.
When are you going to take Bill up on his challenge bud?
Smarter than the average bear.
"If a bear beats you to your kill it is his kill... not yours. You are trespassing in the bear's woods."
Nope, it's still my kill and we need to educate bears to respect that. A well regulated Griz hunting season can help with that. And I'm not trespassing since it's my woods just as much as the bear's woods. I'm a predator in the food chain just like the bear.
"There are far more dangerous things to concern your self with than a bear. Your odds of getting attacked are about the same as that of winning the lotto jack pot. probably far less. Arm your self with knowledge."
Tell that to the young guy that got killed by a bear this year in I believe it was Wyoming. I guess he should have bought a lottery ticket instead of doing his job in the mtns.
Aspen Ghost-Couldn't have said it better
Lottery Ticket??? I wish the odds of the lottery were that good.
I'd say the odds go up significantly when you actually set foot and start killing stuff in big bear country.
For the leftist you could say they "necessarily skyrocket"....
Aspen x3
WOW i better play lotto then cause i have more grizz run ins then any lotto winnings ..
Facts are these grizz in the lower 48 have no respect /fear of humans .. so they have no problem throwing there weight around .
Many above i bet have never been charged or have even seen a wild grizz on a hunt !!
I have been charged while calling . and another year i put two arrows in a bull went back to track only to have a grizz huff and puffing at me ! I had no choice but to back out i was alone and did not want to get into a shooting match ! Next day i returned only to find it was like a zoo a grizz zoo i visually seen 3 grizz . Im always shocked how fast they find a kill even when no bears or sign are found days before .
"Your odds of getting attacked are about the same as that of winning the lotto jack pot. probably far less."
Mountainmaniac, I'd bet a winning lottery ticket this is only true if you consider the total number of people in the entire country who step foot outdoors every year vs. the number of grizzly bear attacks. It most likely does not count only the numbers of people hunting or hiking in grizzly country vs. attacks. It darn well doesn't included non-attack encounters like some of the guys have described above. I don't spend time in grizzly country, so my odds of getting attacked are 0:0, I also don't buy lottery tickets, so those odds are also 0:0. The "odds" are you need to find real data...
Ron, I'll be out next year help keep them at bay. II still can't believe Randy hunted them alone! I will be "loaded for bear"! Mike
Looking forward to it Mike. Yeah, Randy had his own separate grizzly problems. That turned out to be quite the hot spot I sent those guys to.
Here is a story of two bow hunters that were attacked while calling elk near Yellowstone in 2008. This is just one of many but it has always stuck out in my mind because the bear attacked a calling elk hunter. I think grizz should be a top concern when in there woods doing anything.
I will be carrying an extra surprise for my first visitor!
Like to get FWP's opinion of when nailing a bear is/isn't self defense. The problem of bears claiming kills appears to be getting worse, and unfortunately once a bear is so conditioned I'm not sure there's a lot you can do. Maybe FWP should get out there with spray and bear dogs and try reprogramming. If a bear claims a hunter's kill it might need to be addressed via the business end of a gun.
Curious... say hunting in WY and a bear claims your bull, can you request another tag? Or are you just SOL?
My understanding when asking MT officials about shooting a griz in self defense..... you best have tooth marks on you....
TD, IF that is true, that is complete bs. Not one human being is going to allow a grizz to get within reach of them without firing a shot. No matter how big they tell you their cajones are.
I talked at length with a Wyo warden about grizz and he told me a few stories about hunters killing grizz. One guy was on a horse, had a dog with him, the grizz was over 30 yards away, and it was a very small, cub sized lone bear. The guy was very shook up and there were no repercussions by the game dept.
If it is necessary to shoot one. Is it required that you report it immediately or can you report it after you end your hunt? I would hate to pack out and go report a justified bear kill and waste a day or so of hunting.
What they say when asked and what they do when it happens might be two different things. But I wouldn't want to push it. Could be one of those things of who is investigating and who you are (or are from) make a huge difference.
My understanding is it's a very serious investigation if you kill a griz. You have to prove it was charging you, an attack, not that it was just "too close". Kind of an IRS thing. Guilty until proven innocent.....
Don't misunderstand me - I'm not going to blast off at any bear that just happens to be within 50 yards, period. There are plenty of encounters that surprise both participants, and if one is moving off or not clearly coming at me, then fine.
But if it knows I'm there, I've made myself clearly known to it as a human, it seems aggressive and it's still coming at me... then yeah, it's getting shot. And I consider myself a very liberal environmentalist, by the way.
"My understanding when asking MT officials about shooting a griz in self defense..... you best have tooth marks on you.... "
Because the best time to shoot a bear is of course once it has you on the ground...
"Your odds of getting attacked are about the same as that of winning the lotto jack pot. probably far less. Arm your self with knowledge. It will serve you far better than entering the woods with your current mindset"
The problem with that statement is that you are assuming an erroneous denominator.
Sure, all things considered, the average American's chance of being mauled by a bear is basically zero. But that is not the denominator of interest. The denominator of interest is the population of hunters who are around dead animals in grizzly bear territory. And while I would unhestitatingly agree that an attack is still unlikely, the odds are undeniably magnified considerably in such circumstances.
We can argue all we want about whether or not a bear "owns" a kill if it gets there first. You may have a point there. But it is clearly different if a hunter is on a carcass and a bear is charging that human to push them off. And it is even clearer if a bear is threatening a human with no obvious motive.
I'm not going to be busting out a measuring tape in this kind of scenario. I don't know how close it'll have to be before something happens. But when it gets too close, and my efforts to move away and avert the interaction aren't working, or if it's coming too fast too close... I'm shooting.
Bears who threaten to kill or maim humans knowing that they are humans, (especially without provocation or other types of human idiocy) need to die. I can't believe that this is controversial.
