sleeping bag suggestions
Elk
I'm in need of a new bag for elk hunting and I know that there has been discussions in the past but I cannot figure out how to search for key words to look at old threads.
So I'm asking for advise on the sleeping bags you all suggest.
Thanks
You'll get 100 suggestions on brands. You'll get 50 on temp ratings. If you are too warm you can unzip it. If you are still to warm you can hang a leg out. But what can you do if you're not warm enough?
My bags are minus 40. By no means does that mean you could sleep outside in temps to 40 below. I don't know where they get those ratings???? But I do know that mid to late September can throw some weather at you and the worst thing in the world is being cold and waking up cramped.. if you can even sleep. I'm not interested in bringing an extra blanket and I don't like sleeping in my base layers. Go with at least a 30 below bag. That is the single piece of advice I would give you. I have never regretted it.
Are you staying at one location, spiking in, bivy hunting? Lots of bags will do, but some are better suited for the type of hunting you will be doing...down is the lightest, no good when wet..Synthetic is better for stationary camps or damp conditions due mostly to their weight. Down is great for bivy or spike camp hunting due to its light weight if you can keep it dry .Mummy style bags are usually abit warmer and easier to pack than rectangular bags. If money is not an issue, I think that Western Mountaineering make wonderful bags. Kelty, North Face both make a nice synthetic bag at a reasonable cost. If you are going early in the season,or sleep warm, then usually a 20degree bag will do. For me, I like at least a Zero degree rated bag due to the crazy wx out West. I use a flannel bag liner, it will absorb sweat and add a few degrees to the bag. I have hunted out there for 40 years and have learned one a few things. Don't skimp on your binos, sleeping bag, pack or your knife and you will be ok. Well, hope this helps a little. There are lots of good brand names and designs to suit your needs, just look around. Good Luck on your hunt.
Mike
Mule, you and I are alot alike on temp. That is great advice...I sleep cold and when not in a camp or tent with a stove, I use a -10 degree bag since I hunt mostly in early to mid Sept. I threw out those bag ratings above cause most fellows sleep alot warmer than me. Thanks for putting in your thoughts on ratings.
Mike
MP, you're a commando! I'm impressed!
I usually fly to Colorado for September elk hunts with camps at 8-10,000' elevation so my bag will be a base camp and bivy camp bag. I sleep rather cold but have had good luck with a 15* BA Lost Ranger OR 15* Marmont Heilium bag (Better) and a good pad such as a BA IAC pad. No wood stoves needed.
I guess I just sleep hot... I can't even fathom sleeping in a -40 bag. Much less packing that thing around.
I used a 30* quilt all of elk season and was more than adequate even in temps hovering right around/below freezing.... I prefer to sleep in base layers however.
I have transitioned to using a quilt when not in subzero or real wet environments. I am very happy with the change.
If packed size and weight are a consideration because you're packing in, take a look at a quilt.
I would also suggest that you invest in a good pad.
I believe that a good night's sleep is important when running hard.
Even though I'm an active sleeper, thrashing and rolling, I am also liking my dual use Z Pack cuben stuff sack with micro fleece that doubles as a pillow in camp. Some people are bothered by the potato chip bag crinkling sound of the cuben, but it doesn't bother me.
Western Mountaineering About as good as they get.
A lot of good advice so far. I spike camp so I wanted to save as much weight as I could. I use a sierra designs 23 degree bag. It weights in at something like 2 lbs 2 Oz's. I get cold in it when temps are in the low 30's. This I year I decided to go floorless so I bought a omni raven bivy to put the bag in. It helped a lot. I wasn't cold this year. But I did sweat in it every night. I would pull my bag out to air it out every day while I was hunting. I also sllleep in a base layer and a pair of socks.
I have heard a lot of good things about quilts. They are typically lighter then a bag. Enlightened Equipment has had really good reviews.
A good bag/quilt is a necessity to a good nights sleep. Knowing if your a hot or cold sleeper helps as well.
I like the big Agnes classic bags. Wider footbox and the built in pad sleeve are what I like about them.
I forget what the reflector blankets are called. They are real lite and should be put under your pad and/or sleeping bag. It will reflect your body heat back up to you so you will not get cold.
I say to get one rated at least 40degrees colder than you think it'll be there. But I'm from AL. Last hunt in CO, it was below freezing at night, snowed one morning, and my buddy that grew up in MN was fine in the same kind of bag I was miserable in, even though I wore everything I brought. Think temps your used to is the main factor.
Sell ya my 15-degree bag. Cheap. Oughta work good for a feller from Wisconsin.
The better quality the bag, the truer the temperature rating. My experience is that cheap bags offer more of a survival rating whereas quality bags are more of a comfort rating. I personally look at sleeping bags as one of the most important pieces of gear I use and buy quality (Western Mountaineering is my favorite brand). With a quality bag, I've never felt the need to buy a bag with a temperature rating of more than 10 degrees below the lowest temperature I expect to see.
If it gets colder than expected, I just close up the face hole or wear clothing inside the bag.
What Matt said. There are a handful of bag companies with true comfort ratings. WM is at the top of my list as well, can't go wrong with them. You WILL pay a lot of money for them. But at 2 or 3 am and your teeth are chattering you will find you would pay anything at that moment to be comfortable and warm.
That's not even factoring in the stress of not sleeping well.... sleep is a precious commodity on an elk hunt. You need to make the most of the few hours of it you get to perform to speed. And the high end bags will not only get you the comfort you want, they will usually be the lightest and pack the smallest as well. In many ways the money buys you weight.
You never mentioned your uses? Packing in on your back? Truck camping? Drop camp with horses? Early Sept or late? All very different situations.
I bring a sleeping bag liner. If I don't need it, it's a nice pillow. If I'm freezing my ass off, it adds 10 degrees to my bag. It's mummy shaped and very light, I got it at REI and it's REI brand. If it's hot, as in 50 at night, it is a great sleeping bag and weighs only ounces.
For Sept elk hunting, I sleep in a 15 degree synthetic and I freeze my ass off at 20 degrees in a tent unless I wear clothes, but I'm from Southern California.
EDIT: To clarify, rereading my post, it may appear that I only bring my sleeping bag liner which is never the case. It is in addition to my sleeping bag on all trips.
My favorite bag weighs 2lbs. 10 degrees.... I've slept to -11 with it and didn't get cold enough to wake up...
Western Mountaineering Versalite.
I've used a -40 bag too, it was warm but filled up my whole backpack and weighed 10lbs.
For a Sep elk hunt, I'd grab a 10-20 degree bag from a reputable company then go hunt without worries...
I love Bowsite, but a majority of these posts are complete misinformation.
Buy a GOOD bag from a REPUTABLE company and go hunt.
There's a BA Zirkle 20 degree bag on Camofire right now that's 40% off for the next 9 hours or so (this post made at 12:00am MST). I've never used this exact bag, but I like my BA Storm King pretty well. To Nick's point, it's a reputable company.
Be careful with Nick... Where he grew up and where he lives.... he has antifreeze for blood.... =D
No TD, no sane man, packing his own gear would EVER pack a -40 sleeping bag for an Elk hunt in Sep... Even if Elk were prolific in the Arctic, still only a 0 degree bag would be needed.
Nick forgot to tell you he sleeps with his dog in the bag.
I guess I should have mentioned that I don't spike camp so weight is not an issue for me. I use a rectangle too which isn't as warm as a mummy. I hate mummy bags because I roll over a lot and they get twisted up.
Sleeping pads: Exped Downmat 9. Love it! Highest R value of any pad on the market. Converts to a chair if you buy the kit.
I knew this thread would turn into a Ford vs Chevy blondes or brunettes one. Like with boots there is no one best solution for everyone.
I use a BA Encampment with a BA air mattress that fits in the sleeve on the bottom of the bag. It's a 15 degree bag and worked fine this past fall in Montana when the night time temps were in the teens. Base camp hunt, so like Mule Power, weight wasn't an issue.
I have a -20 bag from LL Bean. I've used it for about 10 years now and it is still in great shape. I'm in my mid-50s and tend to get cold easier these days - so I am pleased that I have a bag that sounds warmer than I would need.
Your clothes wick up body moisture! I think most guys are screwing up sleeping in their base layers they have had on all day. Getting changed into a dry base before bed is crucial, and that's everything down to the socks. Even sleeping in the boxers is better than your same day base! The way you sleep has a role. If you breath inside your sleeping bag, what are you doing? Pumping it full of moisture? Most don't realize this until they wake up with ice cycles on the mustache! Then you have humidity. 30 degrees at 80% humidity is going to feel like -10. You don't even want to say the word down with humidity like that! Synthetic all the way.
"I've used a -40 bag too, it was warm but filled up my whole backpack and weighed 10lbs."
I've got a Wiggy's bag with overbag that I picked up for snow camping. I am very happy with its performance, but would never want to pack it in for an elk hunt in September.
And when it's really cold, to lie down with dogs is a good idea...blondes and brunettes are an even better plan. The colder it is, the better looking I get.
You didn't state what kind of hunting style you would be doing, so impossible to give specifics.
For backpack hunting. I won't get into the brand name game, but buy a bag as if your life depended upon it, because it does. Carry weight, insulation material type, possibility of moisture, max lowest temps, etc all play into choice. Someone mentioned this, but buy a bag liner. It adds a little margin, but I wouldn't depend upon it. A big assist is keeping your bag clean and prevent body oils from wicking into bag, (Killing insulation value). Keep your investment operating as advertised longer.
I would rather have the problem of venting when it is warm vs having a bag come up short when it is too cold.
Some good brands noted above.
I'm shopping for sleeping bags now too, after absolutely freezing in my older Marmot 0* bag two nights in a row during the last polar vortex. I didn't have feeling in my big toe for almost a week after. I was about to pull a Han Solo and go sleep in the buck carcass...I will NOT skimp on my next sleeping bag, anyone tried the Kuiu ones?
Not going to comment of compare against the other suggestions but want to throw out a good option for you (what I use in the Rockies in Alberta through Aug-Oct).
Katabatic Gear Sawatch Bag - awesome warmth, weight and vesatility
Thermorest neoair xtherm as the mat. I used to use the Exped DM7 but it's a bit more bulky and heavy. That XTherm is so light and small.
Man, didn't expect over 30 responses in 1 night. Thanks much for the advise.
I archery hunt in Montana, mid to late Sept and we have been using horses going into a base camp. But I need the versatility to put in my pack and spike camp with it. Also for future hunts later in the year. Pretty much looking for extreme flexibility which is why I didn't mention how I hunt in the beginning. My pad is a NeoAir XTherm. I sleep cold and have been sleeping in base layers but want to get away from that. One of my brothers have a Marmot snowcrest that he really likes and the other has a north face brand that he also likes.
I'll tell you that cost is not an issue as I am done with being cold at night.
Looking for light weight, small packing and warm.
Thanks
Looking for the same thing but cost is an issue. I like the most bang for my buck and will carry an extra lb to save hundreds.
Wiggy's. I have the overbag system. Works great.
I have a Marmot Col membrane. I love this bag, it's rated to -20 and weighs abput 4 lbs.
I am a warm sleeper and my tall 20 & 30 deg Montbell SS bags cover me for every archery season I've ever been in. Lots of times I use my bag as a quilt unzipped. Quality insulated pad is a must.
After sleeping on the ground without a bag and covering up with a map I can't imigine any bag not being great.
Just a note on bag fit....
If you can sleep with it, the tighter mummy bags will keep you warmer, not as much dead air inside the bag your body has to keep warm... something like that....
But for me I wrestle around a good deal in my sleep (then the other guy in the tent has to smack me when I throw a leg over them....) I like a more roomy bag, less claustrophobic. But everyone is different. If you can sleep fine in a tight mummy you will save a decent amount of weight, sometimes money too. (I think it has to do with being swaddled or not when you were a baby...)
Where I am, you never get to see or touch anything before you buy it...it's all sight unseen research, trying it out is a fantasy...
Most of these bags have dimensions of their various models on their websites. Shoulders, hips, foot box in circumference.
Take a mil surplus wool blanket or something like that out, a handful of safety pins and a cloth tape measure. Lay all the measurements out on the blankey, pin it up and crawl on in to see how it fits. Works pretty well to give you an idea of fit anyway. I need a bit more in the shoulders than some models, and like a more modified cut for comfort. It became clear pretty quickly what range of measurements were most comfortable.
For me personally (and lots of others too) the WM Badger is my perfect bag for mid to late sept elk. When it's too cold for that 15 degree bag I don't want to be there anyway. I've had it to 17 and was not only comfortable, but toasty, and my blood is thinner than water. It is a bit heavier being a fuller cut, not only more materials, you have to add more insulation because of the looser fit as well. But still right about 3 lbs if i recall.
When you do find "that bag" oh boy.... you sure look forward to it at the end of those long days. And you know you can count on it.
There, now it's turned into a "this is my favorite bag" thread....
I know Matt has a dandy lil bag for August that packs down to a coffee cup and is so light you have to tie it down with dental floss or it floats away..... so much depends on the circumstances to say "what is the best". Especially if you're going to factor in cost. Nice to have a quiver of bags for sure....
"Where I am, you never get to see or touch anything before you buy it...it's all sight unseen research, trying it out is a fantasy..."
So true TD. Ive been reasearching bags also after freezing my butt off recently and it seems like WM comes up a lot, also Feathered Friends has some nice stuff. Really been looking at a Marmot Meteor, for the price it has some pretty good specs but this is one of the few things i think i wouldnt mind dropping the money on.
Looked at quilts also but being a novice i think id be safer in a bag and im probably one of the few that really likes a mummy as i mainly sleep on my back and im also a really cold sleeper.
I agree with MP, though I own so many bags for different ranges of temp it's not even funny anymore. For elk hunting I go with the best most insulated bag I own even in early season.
A few commoents...
For basecamp, I love my Wiggy's bag. It is a great synthetic bag. Also, it can handle some moisture. So i sleep in my baselayer and socks. I do that to dry the out. If I go to bed damp, I wake up fully warm and dry. It is nice to be able to dry out gear while sleeping and makes the next days hunt more comfortable.
I love havign a synthetic bag. I don't have to worry about moisture from a dripping tent or from sweating inside the bag. (but I do hang up the bag and try to dry it whenever the weatehr allows and I'm in camp long enough).
I also bring a bag liner. I haven't used it on the last few hunts but it is nice to have "just-in-case"
Graveyard- Now that you chimed in, I agree with a Western Mountaineering. (I don't have one but I have NEVER met anyone who looks for something different after they buy one)
Buy once, cry once. (When I eventually buy one, I will have cried 3 times!)
TD brings up a good point and maybe my experience might help someone struggling with this.
I hated mummy bags until I got my Montbell stretch bag. What happened with mummys like Cats Meow was they were cut in a tight mummy shape but had no flex- drove me nuts. The bags is supposed to move with you but if it is so restricting, So for example when you bend your knees and bring them up- the bag binds.
The different brands deal with this differently. Montbell SS stretch bags do just that- stretch. I can extend my arms [almost] and then when I readjust the bags closes in around the new position- no additional air space in the bag which is comfortable and warmer.
Other brands accomplish somewhat the same thing but usually by way of a larger cut. So when selecting a mummy bag its crucial you get in the thing and test it as there is a huge difference in the way these fit and move with the different body types. I see many guys just looking at the weight and temp rating- its no wonder some arent happy.
Quilts; I can use my bag as a quilt- unzipped...or as a bag.
Regarding sleeping in base-layers: You need to keep the inside of the bag clean. It's never recommended to sleep in any clothing that you have worn all day.
I pack extra top and bottom merino wool base-layers for sleeping in. A fleece cap and socks if the nights get really cold.
Also, I use a battery operated inflator to fill my sleeping pad.
As already mentioned, don't sleep with your face inside the sleeping bag.
For saving on weight, nothing beats down. High quality waterproof down.
A bag cover helps even more, especially if plan to do a spike camp or your tent leaks. They weigh a bit, but searching for a high quality, waterproof one adds valuable insurance of a quality night's sleep to your sleeping bag system.
There are a couple of good bag manufacturers out there. Western Mountaineering is at the top of my list when it comes to true temp rating with a down bag. Montbell is probably the most comfortable with their stretch, but I have found their temp rating about 10-15degr optimistic. Kifaru is at the top of the packable synthetic bags.
As you can see from the above posts opinions about what you might need for a sleeping bag varies as much as what is the best bow to buy. This post gets a little long but if you want to buy a bag based upon scientific testing rather than what has worked for Jim, Bob, Joe or heaven forbid TBM read on.
In 2002 Europe instituted a standard (EN 13537) for testing sleeping bags. Bags sold in most European countries require the EN rating to be stated. The problem is that the test costs about $1500 so manufacturers selling only in the US generally don't test their bags, or only some of them.
EN 13537 produces four temperature results - upper limit, comfort, lower limit and extreme. The standardized tests done with dummies (real ones not human ones) wearing appropriate base layers (tights, shirt, beanie, socks) and a sleeping pad. The ratings are based upon a standard man and a standard woman, whatever that may mean. If you sleep warm or cold my guess is you just aren't 'standard.' :)
- The EN 13537 Upper Limit is based on a standard man as the highest temperature without sweating to have a comfortable nights sleep. - The EN 13537 Comfort rating is based on a standard woman having a comfortable nights sleep. - The EN 13537 Lower Limit is based on a standard man as the lowest temperature to have a comfortable nights sleep. - The EN 13537 Extreme rating is a survival rating for a standard woman.
If you want to know much more about the standard I posted a link above to the Mammut website that really goes into detail.
Western Mountaineering sells bags in Europe so they have EN data for their bags. I have read they don't post the data on their website but it is available. REI posts the EN ratings for their sleeping bags. Based upon what I have read I would require an EN rating for any bag I was going to plump down the cash they are asking for bags today!
Good luck and stay warm!
I can't believe anyone would expect to get detailed advice without giving any details. It's really not hard. For instance:
I too need a good bag fro elk. I will be using it for bivy hunts and I will be carrying it for 12 hours a day and sleeping in it for 6. Weather will include rain, snow, and some cold and I will sleep under a small tarp. I can sleep in cloths if necessary. Not sure I can adjust to the mummy style. That's it!
Ultralamina 15. Best bang for your buck. Check it out, synthetic, plenty warm, light enough and it'll work great...
Wiggys's Ultima Thule if your not packing it. I've had mine for about 20 years and it's retained it's loft very well.
If your looking for a ultra light bag then I would look at the downtek bags by big agnes.
Feathered Friends makes top of the line bags. In my general experience temp ratings tend to be survival listings ("he was still alive in the morning"). An insulated pad makes a big difference. A liner will also keep you warmer and your bag cleaner. Mummies are the warmest for the weight, but how confined are you comfortable with? Backpacking with a friend last fall who was getting real cold I had him try the old boiling water in a nalgene bottle in the bottom of the bag trick and it helped a lot. Sleeping bags are truly one of those expenses you only experience the pain of once if you buy quality.
Any more thoughts...
I have a 0F Wiggy's bag for base camp. I LOVE it. It keeps me very warm and doesn't care about water.
The Wiggy's is too heavy for bivy hunts. For those, I have a cheap 20F down bag from Camofire. It is small, light and packs small. But it does get a bit chilly. So I bought a Sea to Summmit Reactor liner. The liner only add 8 ounces and makes the bag much warmer.
Here's my 2 cents for what it is worth:
I have 3 Sleeping Bag setups and like them all.
#1 - 0 Degree Kifaru Slick Bag Center Zip w/Big Agnes Insulated pad. - Great bag where wet conditions are prevelant. Doesn't pack down as well as a down bag, but not bad none the less.
#2 - 5 Degree Western Mountaineering Sequoia - Super comfortable bag, but ALOT of bag. This is a super warm 5 degree down bag that I use for non backpack hunts.
#3 - 15 Degree Big Agnes Mystic Downtek Bag with Big Agnes Insulated Pad. This is probably my favorite mountain hunting set up. It is light, compact and plenty warm for early season hunts. If not I add an insulating layer to sleep in. I really like the BA system whereby the pad goes inside a sleeve in the bag.
I use all three of these systems quite a bit and they all work as advertised. I'd hate to be without any of them!
I am going to go with the military modular system. I am cheap but absolutely hate to get cold at night. Hope it works if not next night you will be able to SEE MY CAMP FIRE FROM THE SPACE LAB.
I'm with IdyllwildArcher on the usefulness of a silk bag liner in that it adds 10 degrees of warmth on cold nights, and I can use it as a top sheet on warm nights.
I will add that a bag liner helps reduce dirt, grease, moisture, and scent build-up inside your bag. I wash my down bags once every 10 years, but I wash my bag liner each time I come out of the woods.
I have a Marmot Helium that works for me. The 15 degree rating is realistic and the bag is very light, durable and compressible... it'll last you many years if you keep it clean ( a silk liner helps with that and warmth).
I have a -20 north face mummy bag. I think it weighs around 5 lbs. If I were spike camping in very far I think I would get something under 3lbs and wear my base layers to sleep in. Temps around freezing and no clothes on I'm toasty warm until I get out. Bag is a tad bulky.
Just ordered a Marmot Helium at a great price!
$339 shipped! Couldn't pass it up.
What kind of liners are you guys using?
I have a helium 30 and love it. I remember one night in wy last year it got down to 16 degrees and I did get pretty cool. I use a big ages pad with primaloft, don't remember the name. Use a silk liner. bag weighs right at 2 lb I think
"What kind of liners are you guys using? "
I have a Sea to Summit Thermolite Reactor.
I have a Western Mountaineering Veralite 15 degree bag for early season hunts and Marmot Lithium 0 degree bag for late season. I have had great luck with both bags on several hunts.
I seem to find really good deals at Backcountry.com great customer service and always helpful!!
If you're caught in weather too cold for the bag you have with you. Boil water and pour it into a Nalgene bottle and sleep with it.
Elkhuide, the Versalite is a 10 degree bag. I have one too and love it. Great bag and a true rating. Only 2 lbs.
I have a Marmot COL Membrane. It's a -20 down bag that it's plenty of room. I also have a steric North Face 0 degree bag. They both have there place. I usually sleep very hot. I simply open the bag and sleep with a leg out if I get to hot and I don't have to worry about being too cold. Buy quality once or buy cheap a bunch. Either way the cost is about the same.
Good luck to you.
"What kind of liners are you guys using?"
Cocoon silk travel sheet. I find the rectangular one easier to get in and out of than the mummy-shaped ones. And because I use a pillow, I don't need the mummy "head" to keep greasy hair off the down bag.
If you don't sleep well,you will break down quickly especially at altitude. I have been hunting elk and guiding elk hunter's for more than 20 years and find that when you physically break down the mental break down is soon to come. I prefer a bag over rated as for under rated. You won't sleep well if your cold. You can always unzip. Mummy bags will not allow you to have much movement within the bag. If your gonna use a nylon bag use a liner to absorb moisture. Nylon bags tend to slide if its not completely flat. I have tried a few different bags but my favorite is the magnum 44. Canvas outer and flannel inside. Large and bulky, but in my opinion the lack of sleep is one of the worst enemies of an elk hunter. Good luck!
if you are not using down, Wiggy's is the only maker of bags that use a USA made fill...
"if you are not using down, Wiggy's is the only maker of bags that use a USA made fill..."
...and Kifaru.
In general your bag is not as warm at the end of an extended hunt from body moisture and compression. You will also be torn down physically and sleep colder. It's important to store your bag properly in the off season and also while on the hunt. Compressing it when it is damp is killer on the rating. Damp bags weigh a lot too. If there is any one thing to really stress about on a back country hunt several hours hike in is keeping your bag dry as possible. Air it out in the sun when you get the chance.
Black colored bags are better
