Arizona Archery – down to 3 units
Elk
As I’ve changed my 1st/2nd application choices several times this week thought I’d reach out to help resolve my agony – I struggle with what to order at restaurants too!
I’m a NR w/ 16 pts, been holding out for Unit 9 but have decided I’d really like to spend this September in Arizona. Desire a wonderful DIY experience over score….but do hope my 16 years of persistence puts me in an area that holds some large (350 class) bulls. Will be my one & only hunt in Ar. My buddy from WI with same points may not be able to join me due to work (be it with tag or to share camp). We’ve hunted together 4 times since late 80’s but never in Ar. We’ve been fortunate to harvest 3 bulls – learning lots of things that didn’t work but being rewarded for our homework (along w/some good luck).
Like many, I wish I would have hunted more often but was focused on raising 3 boys, which rightfully took priority & a lot of time. My wife prefers I not go solo, thus open to chat with anyone interested in potentially sharing camp.
Without writing a book of my research to date it’s a close race between Unit 7W & 3A/3C for 1st choice, the other being 2nd choice. Unit 27 not ruled out. The typical top units eliminated due to draw odds; believing these three offer a reasonable chance of drawing a tag.
Appreciate feedback from anyone that hunted any of those units last year early archery…not seeking specific locations, rather generalities as to elk population, recent changes that could impact that unit in 2015 (fire recovery, anticipated impact of tag quantity changes, road closures, changes to public usage, early Muzz hunts, hunter pressure, etc.) i.e. the things that impact the best overall experience.
Thanks in advance for any words of wisdom. Feel free to PM me. Hope to be able to return the favor by sharing the results of my experience or perhaps joining up for a couple weeks in Elk country.
Thanks again,
If I had 16 NR points in AZ and wanted to draw a tag with a chance at 350+ bull I would go with unit 1/2B/2C (it looks like you have enough to draw guranteed!) first and 3A/3C second.
16 points would have all but guaranteed you a unit 9 tag last year. At least stay the course for unit 9 with your first choice this year. Decide between 3 & 7 for your second choice, though I would go with 3 between the two if your after big. It would be mathematically impossible not to draw 7 with 16 points though....
And I agree with wild wilderness. I'd be applying for unit 1 over 3 or 7 if it were me!
You could have drawn 3a/c - 7w - -27 5 years ago. Although good units I would think hard about cashing in 16 points on them. Why not unit 1 ? You will draw any of those units but you are sooo close to a unit 9 tag. Good luck.
Unit 9 first choice
Unit 1 second choice
Yep U9 for your first choice.....then pick one for your second choice...I would probably do as WW said and not 7W
I think a lot of NR's have been banking points and they are going to apply this year because of the rule change that will probably take affect next year. I seriously doubt 16 NR points is enough for 9 this year. Too many NR's with more points will apply in 9 this year IMO. I would probably go unit 1 first choice and either 3a/3c or 27 as a 2nd choice. I personally believe there are more bigger bulls in 3a/3c than 27. However, since the fire a couple years back 27 is doing much better.
If you draw post up here on bowsite and I'm sure someone on here would welcome you in their camp. Very good people here who are very willing to help another bow hunter.
Good Luck!
When I get home I will look deeper but my memory says you could not have drawn a 9 tag ( you had 15 last year) and it's still out of reach.
Just looked and they only pulled 5 tags out of 25 in the 16 point pool last year and there were 45 apps in your pool of 15 points. If nothing changes they'll fill the nr cap before they get out of the 2015 17 point pool. Things change though.
You will draw unit 1 but I would not look at it as a 350 bull unit, more like 320-340. Personally I would take 27 over 1. I hunted 1 in 2013, and Beendare hunted 27 the same time. Lots more room in 27 and from what I saw many didn't like to hunt far from the road.
Unit 9 first choice
Unit 27 second choice
Yep, gotta have 9 in case a bunch jump to the muzzy, then figure on hunting 27.
Good luck on your app too Ken.
Thanks to all for the input, glad I asked. Initially ruled out unit 1 due to drawing odds….seeing (1) each w/ 16 & 17 and thinking I wanted to provide myself the best chance to be drawn. Upon further review I do agree I have a good chance if this year’s applications remain similar; it replaces 7W now. While getting close to drawing Unit 9 still think I’m a year or two away (agree w/WapitiBob), and this year could be a wildcard in terms of people anticipating the 2016 NR limit changes…thus my initial units were attempting to provide some buffer for that. Is Unit 9 that superior to all others? I’ve read several cases of drought years being really tough (a hit or miss unit). I’ll continue to pursue the best balance of a quality unit and how much risk I’m willing take of not getting drawn. Sounds like some positive toward 27 also. As of this post my top three (not in order) 1, 3A/3C, and 27. I’ll try to determine the most sought after unit from last year’s draw by how many 1st and 2nd choice appls there were in each point class and select appropriately. Of course your testimonials factor heavily into the mix also. Especially like to hear hunt experiences form last fall for these units.
Thanks in advance for sharing, very appreciated.
DaElk,
I've outfitted and guided in SE AZ for 30 years. I haven't guided in 9 and those northern units but have friends who hunt there. According to what they tell me you can have multiple opportunities at a 350 class bull Now the 380+ bulls are much harder and too much competition among the hot rods whom have 6 or 8 guys in the field year round with multiple trail cameras at every tank. Not for me!
Unit 3A/3C I think is way over rated. The late rifle hunt is terrible as the bulls go back down on the Apaches and most of the hunters congregate on the reservation border. Same with the bow hunts. You have too much competition, too many roads and not a good experience for the most part. The old Rodeo/Chideski burn is stagnant and doesn't attract the elk it used too.
Unit 1 is great but too many roads and too many hot rod outfitters chasing the bigger bulls. The quality regressed a little bit last fall because of the high success rates by the late rifle hunters the two years previous and many of the real big bulls were taken out due to the fire opening up the forest.
Unit 27 has about half the unit, which is the Blue Range Primitive/Wilderness area is road less and has a lot of rough country that holds some big elk and not as much competition, except up on top of the Rim between Hannigan Meadow and Alpine, more of the hunters congregate.
Like someone said above, you don't need that many points to draw 27 but if you want a tag this year I would recommend 27 and 1 if you like to hunt the roads.
A New Mexico outfitter drew the early muzzle hunt in 27 year before last with eight points and killed a net 412 bull in 27. My late season rifle hunter that year took a 365 bull very close to where the 412 bull was killed. This was 6 miles from a road.
It is a big unit but with a lot of scouting and or help it has some great possibilities. The largest bull we have taken out of unit 27 was a 427 bull on the late rifle hunt about 6 years ago. We have taken many 350-390 bulls there over the years.
You have more points than I do and last year I talked to a very well known AZ outfitter about booking a hunt with him if I drew one of the units you are thinking about and his reply was....It's up to you but with your points I would hold out for unit 9 Hate to turn business away but it's that good.....
I don't know your age, physical condition or how long you're willing to hold out but Think Hard about your choices because with your points you'll draw all the units you're thinking about. Units like 9 and 23n are a different story as far as drawing this year but there's a reason those unit's take all the points they do to draw. Even if they change the draw next year you are way up the food chain for a top AZ elk tag. Good problem to have for a elk hunter.
What did it take for NR to draw 27 last year?
We will see if they screwed unit 9 up this year with the date change with muzzy tags....
Yeah, I liked 27....but its not for everybody as its much rougher and thick country in about 1/2 the unit . Since they look at your first 2 choices you might as well put in for U9 first choice. I swear a guy could put a treestand IN ANY TREE in that U9 and kill a 6 point bull- at least that what it seemed like when I hunted it. Pretty much screws you up for public land hunting in the other states as there you can be super aggressive and get away with it.
U27 is much different than many of the other units as its thicker than heck. Some areas the regrowth was 6' tall and similar to coastal Alaska- you had a hard time pawing through it. Now it will be 2 years later with blowdowns and a tangled mess.
I was talking to a couple guys that were calling and hunting in there for a couple of days [I got there late after the season started] and he said he had bulls at 20 yds he couldn't see to get a shot at. Another guy told me the same as he had bulls at close range but there was too much foliage in the way so he resorted to a treestand.
So I suppose the secret of 27 is out about the Blue Wilderness on the East side. Seems like the really big bulls move into the Blue as its a bit more remote though a guy that can hike 2-3 miles can access it easily. There isn't the numbers of elk in there as in the thicker parts of the unit...but that doesn't hurt a guy hunting it so much with a bow as once you locate them you don't want all of the confusion of satellites and distraction. That area is a good terrain mix but you have to key on the main water sources- even if it rains [and in 2013 it rained HARD more than it was clear] the elk are conditioned to revolve around those sources.
Still no cakewalk in 27 ....like it is in U9. "TMI"- oh well, thats what happens when you have a closed system that a non res will probably never again draw in my lifetime.
My summary: Unit 9 remains the best opportunity to see 350 class bulls on a somewhat regular basis, with the trade-off of doing so while in the midst of more hunters, many pursuing the truly record bulls of the unit, and should expect to see more hunters / trail cameras. Great unit for big bulls but not the best overall “wilderness” experience. More roads & access mean less remote areas, but still could be the hunt of a lifetime. While not impossible, likely this hunt remains a year or two away to draw.
Unit 1 less quality of bulls and many of the same issues as unit 9 that detract from it being a more "wilderness" experience. Good chance to draw this year and reasonable chance at a 330 class bull? Probably won't pursue this unit. Unit 27 has equal or better big bull potential as unit 9 IF I make arrangements to get to those more remote areas to find them. This unit may be a good option for a semi-guided hunt to help get into & out of such areas. Anyone have experience on such an option in unit 27? This unit likely best bet to hunt this year (the other being unit 9)
If nothing else all this talk motivates me to hit the bike & weights right after this post sent….thanks to all.
Thanks Beendare, just read your post after sending mine. Certainly a lot to consider for unit 27....
There are a few trails in 27 that may be workable on a mt bike. I think there is also a stock guy in the se part of the unit that may be available.
I hunted unit 1 in '10 and got lucky and drew a random tag in Unit 3A/3C in '12. Shot bulls on both hunts DIY. There are plenty of roads and plenty of people on those roads in both those units. Fortunately, I was able to do a bunch of scouting all summer on both units so I had a pretty good idea of where to start my hunt. I will say that on both hunts much of that info went out the window the night before opening day because that's when 90% of the other hunters with their helpers showed up!! Both units were a zoo on opening weekend! I would love to hunt 27 just to get away from other hunters and would suggest you keep doing your research like you are and get as much figured out before the hunt as you can.
The unit 9 Hunt Begins on Sept. 18th this year because there is a 25 tag muzzleloader season BEFORE the archey season. Some huge bulls will be killed during the muzzy hunt, and the rest will probably be a little more educated. The muzzy hunt could scare some of the point holders above you and keep them out of the draw this year.
WOW NovemberMadman, 2 very nice bulls you killed there. I would say there is a reason why units 1 and 3A/C are crowded!
Thanks NovemberMadman, Ed, Beendare, all, Do they alternate early Muzz hunts in Unit 9 every other year or is this year a first for that? Must admit waiting 16 years to hunt right after a Muzz hunt in isn't very appealing...but maybe it would still be better than most other units?
Believe they have early Muzz in 27 every other year...was last year I believe. Mixed thoughts on 27, no doubt some big bulls but would really need to have a plan as to where & how to get to them...like the idea of less pressure though....
Thanks all,
This is the first year G&F put the muzzy hunt before the archery. 25 tags will be 300 people up there that week with the bowhunters scouting too...might be a mess.
I don't know what rhyme or reason Az uses but they alternate that early rifle season in the top units- have for years...and I don't know what they do now with muzzy.
I think the point guys are making in this thread is there are a lot more than just 3 good units you can put in for with those points...not just the few discussed here.
Many of the younger guys are holding their tongue as they will draw them a couple more times in their lives- hopefully anyway.
The Muzzy hunt date is new this year. One of the commissioners lobbied hard for it. My guess is he or someone close to him has enough points to draw the tag this year. As far as I know this is the 1st time a muzzy hunt has ever superseded the archery hunt. I'm sure there will be plenty of complaints from those who draw the Unit 9 archery tag this year, once they realize the muzzy hunt took place before their season opener. A lot of top point holders will be disappointed when they arrive a day or two early to find hunters toting guns and tagging "their" bulls. I never had a tag in Unit 9,and don't even apply there. I work up there from time to time and there are some impressive bulls. If I were a NR sitting on 16 points I would wait for that once in a lifetime experience, give it a year or two and apply for unit 9. My guess is the Muzzy hunt won't be there next year. If i were sitting on those points that's what I would do. If the muzzy hunt stays, I'd start thinking about 23.
Historically,,AZ has rotated their hunts. i.e. One year its muzzle, the next is rifle and the next is a pass (no hunt). There is a archery hunt every year. My order might be off, it could be rifle then muzzle then an off year. However, this is the first year I have seen muzzle before archery. AZ keeps you guessing and I am not sure what next year will bring.
One other thing DaElk....have you taken the hunter safety class? If not, I would. That will give you one more point that you will never lose even if you did draw a tag. You basically would never go back to zero points. I was told you can take the class online but you have to cone here for the field day. That might give you the edge you need to draw your dream tag next year. Just a thought if you haven't done so already.
With the units he's thinking about putting in for he is already 5 points above what's needed to get the tag. If you draw a 27 tag and plan on going deep into that unit.......X10 on having a plan !!
From a rut perspective, how would unit 9 starting Sept 18 compare to Unit 1 starting Sept 11....is that a significant difference to consider? Based on last years appl's of the units I'm considering 9 & 1 would be the top two. Best chance of draw unit 1.
Unit 9 max point appl's w/ 1st choice (4) w/17 pts max point appl's w/ 1st choice (1) w/18 pts
Unit 1 max point appl's w/ 1st choice (1) w/17 pts max point appl's w/ 1st choice (1) w/17 pts
With either unit it's about doing the homework....there will be big bulls somewhere, up to me to find them.
Appreciate your continued advice.
Thanks,
The only reason you have a chance in U9 is because its after the muzzy hunt- but then do you still want to draw it?
I think it depends on how many muzzy tags there are; 20 won't kill you but 120 will. Lots of other great units than the few you discussed....
Beendare, 25 muzzy tags but that whole week will be filled with bowhunters scouting for their hunt...
Excitement seems to be growing for unit 1 for me. Now just need to confirm to myself to try for 9 as 1st, then 2. Vs. just unit 1; results are probably the same either way. Guessing most would think me a fool to not give 9 a shot....thanks for the input the past couple weeks...things clearing up.
Well, the muzzy thing may be a blessing in disguise as you probably wouldn't have drawn U9 with 16 points otherwise.
now if you are going with a guide that knows the unit....any unit in Az will be good.
Sorry I didn't see your post sooner. I hunted unit 27 last year and ended up doing real good in the end. PM me is you want details on this hunt. You would draw it with your points. Also,I talked with alot of unit 1 hunters last year and they were doing really good on big bulls, 350+. One of my good friends lives in unit 3a/3c, don;t burn your points here from my intel. In the end, you probably should go unit 9 first choice for sure given how many points you have. I drew unit 27 with 12 points as a NR, drew tag number 2, so guess I was in max points pool. Unit 27 is know picnic to hunt I will tell you that and the easier access areas are covered up with ATV's running wild..........knowing what I know now and even though I killed a great bull, I would look at unit 1 behind 9 given your points. Good luck!
WillPower
Unit 9 first choice Unit 1 second choice
