The writing was on the wall for the 2nd choice general to not be a 100% draw this year. It is nobody's fault but your own if you applied for it and expected a guaranteed tag.
I, for one, am very appreciative of the info Bob provides.
Lets hope ruffcat is joking???????
What ElkMan/RuffCat fail to understand, is that the 2015 2nd choice odds were impacted by a big jump in 1st choice apps, nearly 300. That's why the 2nd choice odds tanked, not because of an influx to the 2nd choice pool.
I've been waiting for an F word laced pm over on Archery Talk, now that he's banned from this forum. But, since I delete his pm's without reading them, and have him on my ignore list, it won't have the intended outcome. Also, knowing Terry Martin for about 40 years now, an F word laced PM may not be the smartest move.
On AT, where he had his latest fit, I responded with the following comment. If any of you would like to discuss it, I would be more than happy to do so.
"..... Personally, I prefer to help people draw tags and will tell them how the different states draws work or what their odds might be so they can enjoy the Elk hunting out West that many seem to take for granted. There are those few, such as yourself, that would prefer to see someone butch their apps, forget to apply, or otherwise not be in a draw, so you can have a seemingly better chance at a tag. I'm not in that camp. Having hunted for more than 4 decades and killed dozens of bulls, I'll gladly be the brunt of your criticism if it means a dad, son, or daughter, gets to go Elk hunting one time in their life."
Thanks for the support guys, it's VERY much appreciated. Including this thread, there are only 3 people that have ever expressed displeasure over my draw process comments.
Kind of guy you would want to take out for a steak dinner and beer just to say thank you.
Geez, on a public forum, we get rid of one and another pops up.
I read the thread, and thought "Crap, this is what turns good posters off Bowsite."
Thankfully, it appears that isn't so in WB's case, and we can continue to benefit from his helpful posts
Thanks WapitiBob!
Bake
Thanks for being there....
PM sent.
And he just doesn't stop at Bowsite. I visit Big Fin's site and he is there also. Just as helpful as here.
ruffcat- What have you contributed to Bowsite? Bowhunting? Society? If you want to p!ss and moan, there is a site for large mule deer where folks like to cry and complain.
I will give you no more time. I have already wasted too much on you.
I thought ruffcat maybe TBM, the grammar in the 3 sentences sure look suspicious!
DJ
You've increased the quality of my hunts for the rest of my life and I owe you an incredible debt of gratitude for the public and private education/help.
There is no reason to blame yourself for not drawing a tag correct?
The rules and regulations are equal for all people are they not?
You did not get drawn for a hunt so you are blaming Bob? from my end of the keyboard it looks as if you acting like a spoiled SELFISH child who has not gotten their way? Or perhaps a flaming liberal who feels they are entitled to everything????
Its Nick Muche fault Morgan and I did not get drawn a bear tag for POW.
If you don't want to listen to WB then read the regs and figure it out yourself!
BUT... like you I also warned them that things were changing. That this year there were no guarantees as in the past. So Ruff if you had paid closer attention to Bob's words of wisdom maybe you would have taken his advice if you wanted a guarantee and entered the license you wanted as your first choice.
You have nobody but yourself to blame. I bet that hurts. But posting this thread is only pouring salt in the wound because you have now been put in your place.
Huh... I didn't realize Elkman had been given a dishonorable discharge. But it's no surprise.
Good luck Bob.. I hope your generosity finds it's way back to you in the mountains this fall my friend.
I'll add that while this thread sure started off as a negative one... the good folks here have turned that right around. A good lesson in how NOT to act! Proud to call you guys my friends.
Bow
I didn't realize that Elkman got ixnayed either. No big loss for Bowsite, IMO.
As to ruffcat, I guess if he didn't want to gamble he shouldn't have rolled the dice.
WapitiBob ruins the Wyoming elk draw.
I wanna join this dastardly club!
Attention world of hunters: Arizona unit 9 has trophy elk and the Henry Mountains in Utah have trophy mule deer!
Hell yeah! Who hates me?
As and when, I'll be sure to thank him for his generous assistance as any right-minded individual would and should, with good grace and manners.
99.99% of fellow Bowsiters are Grade A Class 1 nice folks...but there's always someone who has to prove otherwise
Good luck and good hunting!!
By the way, I believe you helped me out with Arizona - the whole 365 day hunting license situation not being what I thought.
Anyway, I am certain you can see from the posts, but your help is always appreciated. I agree that it is tough to have the naysayers when you are just trying to help others, but you just have to remember, the world even nailed Jesus to the cross.
And Lou...My wife is perpetually concerned about his health. She keeps wanting to double check his x-ray.
Bob I hear you also through the 2012 election.
I'm sure that was Matt...
Bob, Dan, Jaq and several others are assets that we are truly lucky to have...If Draw Odds are really affected by anything it's done by Eastman's, Huntn' Fool and a few others...
No 'one' person can do that...
You notice Ruffcat has mysteriously disappeared after the 'hit & run'...Poof!
Some facts for you
I bought my first WY pref Point last year. I applied for the first time this year. I drew my tag. I dont know WapitiBob. I didnt ask for his help. He seems like a stand up guy, but he didnt help me draw anymore than he hindered you. I help a ton of people in Colorado, same way he helps people in WY.
Maybe you should send your frustration my way for taking your tag.
Sounds like just another example of self-righteous perceived entitlement.
The hunt in particular that I applied for, showed the success rate for drawing for top point holders slowly rising until last year. Last year it was just under 10 percent for max point holders, this year it dropped to just under five percent. Several other hunts that I looked at where last year had 100 percent for top point holders, dropped to around 50 percent for the same point pool. It seems that a lot of guys were/are trying to get out of the points race. I am one of those, but I have been applying for actual units since before the points system came into play. But in all fairness, I have been applying for units with very low drawing odds. There was one exception that sticks out in my mind. I had around four points and applied in the special draw for unit 118, the year before, the special in the max pool was, I believe, 100 percent. The year I applied for that tag, draw success dropped to about 33 percent - 1 tag was drawn for the three max point holders that applied for it. Unfortunately I have never drawn a single elk tag in Wyoming. And after 10 points I want to be extremely careful how I use them.
There were a few with, I believe, eight points that applied for general tags. Though I would stop short of calling that a waste, it wasn't the wisest use of those points. But I guess if you have an opportunity, having max points will definitely assure a general tag.
Time to replan for next year, if Bob is willing, I may hit him up for advice.
Bob, keep on keeping on.
