Mathews Inc.
Anybody rush their shots?
Elk
Contributors to this thread:
AndyJ 04-Mar-15
Jaquomo 05-Mar-15
wyobullshooter 05-Mar-15
joehunter8301 05-Mar-15
joehunter8301 05-Mar-15
Franzen 05-Mar-15
Bob H in NH 05-Mar-15
Fields 05-Mar-15
Charlie Rehor 05-Mar-15
rick allison 05-Mar-15
cityhunter 05-Mar-15
elkmtngear 05-Mar-15
Dude 05-Mar-15
huntmaster 05-Mar-15
rick allison 05-Mar-15
Neveragainwagun 05-Mar-15
Arrowflinger 05-Mar-15
Bake 05-Mar-15
Tracker 05-Mar-15
Chasewild 05-Mar-15
bnt40 05-Mar-15
12yards 05-Mar-15
Mike Castillo 05-Mar-15
bnt40 05-Mar-15
Dude 05-Mar-15
huntmaster 05-Mar-15
sureshot 05-Mar-15
huntmaster 05-Mar-15
HUNT MAN 05-Mar-15
Franzen 05-Mar-15
wyobullshooter 05-Mar-15
drycreek 05-Mar-15
Windwalker 05-Mar-15
wyobullshooter 05-Mar-15
Jaquomo 05-Mar-15
TANGERS 05-Mar-15
APauls 05-Mar-15
OhioHowie 05-Mar-15
Jaquomo 05-Mar-15
writer 05-Mar-15
Windwalker 05-Mar-15
IdyllwildArcher 06-Mar-15
coelker 06-Mar-15
oldgoat 06-Mar-15
Genesis 06-Mar-15
greenmountain 06-Mar-15
AndyJ 06-Mar-15
12yards 06-Mar-15
Z Barebow 06-Mar-15
AndyJ 06-Mar-15
blackhawk21162 06-Mar-15
From: AndyJ
04-Mar-15
I have begun to realize, I'm not the shot I once was and I realized that I now rush shots on game. This did start with target panic. I used to be cool as a cucumber when taking a shot at an animal. Now I act like I have a split second to take a shot. Anyone else rush their shots? Is their anyone that did and stopped doing it? What did you do to learn to take your time?

From: Jaquomo
05-Mar-15
Andy, you know this is like asking if anyone has problems with premature ejaculation...

Of course not - it's only you, you poor sucker!

:-)

05-Mar-15
Back when I was fighting target panic (and losing badly!), I did everything wrong, including rushing shots.

What allowed me to finally gain control of my shooting, rather than it controlling me, was to buy a back tension release (Carter Backstrap) and follow the program outlined in Bernie Pellerite's book "Idiotproof Archery". It was hell, but after 6 weeks of religiously following the program, I had developed a surprise release and was able to shoot anxiety-free for the first time in nearly 20yrs. That was back in 2008, and I haven't looked back since.

Basically, I use the same shot sequence whether I'm practicing, shooting a tournament, or shooting an elk. I focus on the spot I want to hit, float my pin on that spot, burn a hole in that spot, and slowly increase pressure on the trigger until the release fires, and then follow through. Because I've shot enough to gain trust in my sequence, I don't feel the urge to rush a shot. I know it's easier said than done, but you have to learn to ALLOW the shot to happen, rather than MAKE the shot happen.

05-Mar-15
Double post

05-Mar-15
I used to have that problem but experience has taught me. And at full draw I always tell myself. "Ok you got em now ur at full draw he isn't goin anywhere. Take ur time from here and aim small." It helps me remember my fundamentals of executing a good shot just like the target range. Has helped me tremendously in making good shots the past few years.

From: Franzen
05-Mar-15
I've rushed shots. I think what Joe says above is helpful as long as a guy can remember to do it in the heat of the moment.

From: Bob H in NH
05-Mar-15
I have nothing even close to target panic or rushing shooting at targets, paper or foam, can hold on target all day long, not tension or anxiety.

Put a deer in front of me and poof, there goes the arrow. The absolute WORST for me is drawing in a broadside deer. They are already in great shot position and I have a LARGE tendency to rush that shot. No idea why.

When I draw and settle on an animal that I can't shoot yet, due to angle etc. I can hold all day, once they turn I then rush the shot. I did it with my one and only elk, drew as he stepped onto a trail at 75 yard. He then walked directly at me. Finally shot him at 2 yards as he passed me. Never felt rushed while he was walking in because there wasn't a shot to take.

I believe it's all habit and practice. The habit has to be from shooting over and over, the practice well you just have to have the deer/animal there, take your time and have them not get away.

Somehow you have to talk yourself through the shot and WAIT.

From: Fields
05-Mar-15
IMO, it drives me crazy watching some people draw and hold and hold and hold. I like to practice shooting faster. My deer dont seem to stay in place too long and give me all the time I need to draw, hold and think... I'm not saying snap shoot fast, just not holding for two minutes... before releasing.. Shooting recurve and not holding might have taught me some bad habits when I changed to the compound....... Good luck.

05-Mar-15
If things go bad for me it's rushing that last half second. Nothing to do with target panic. The solution is form practice and Joehunter's solution. C

PS: Most of my hunting has been for whitetail deer and this has hurt me on other species which are not as wired. Takes some getting used to when hunting other species.

From: rick allison
05-Mar-15
I never suffered from target panic...KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK!!! For that I'm grateful...had a couple buddies who were absolutely incapacitated by it.

On the contrary, once I went back to trad archery everything became totally automatic...with several thousand practice arrows of course. Now, at age 62 and for the past couple of decades, I have literally zero "swing thoughts", to use a golf analogy, when drawing on a critter...wasn't always the case :^).

My best whitetail...long story...was shot from the ground at 8 yards after sneaking in when I heard 2 bucks REALLY going at it. When in, what I hoped, the best position, I quickly set up in some low, thick pines in a tight funnel spot between an open meadow and a corn field.

After about an hour I saw close movement to my left, out of the corner of my eye...from first sighting til he stepped into an opening wasn't more than 5 seconds. In my compound days, no way would I have been able to execute the shot...no time to draw, anchor, sight, and shoot.

With the recurve's ability to shoot fast, he stepped behind a pine...raise the bow...came open, behind a 2nd pine...draw...stepped out...shoot. double lung pass thru and down in 30 yards. wow...no time even for the old pitter-pat heart beat to develop!!! It happened so fast, it took a moment to realize it actually occurred.

Not thumping trad...not for everybody...but works for me.

OK, OK...maybe I am thumping trad a little...try it, put in the time and effort, you may never go back.

From: cityhunter
05-Mar-15
shooting a ton of 3d has helped me. Reason is i need to pick a spot before trigger goes off and forces me to focus .

From: elkmtngear
05-Mar-15
In regard to elk, I sometimes practice on my 3D targets by making a "nervous bark" with my voice right before I release.

I figure if I can pull this off, I will get used to making a "quick shot", and I will have the bull where I want him. Also, the bull will not have time to figure out what is going on.

So not rushing, but executing quickly and in a controlled manner.

Best of Luck, Jeff

From: Dude
05-Mar-15
I do. I will be following this thread! I don't hunt elk,but spend a lot time in the deer woods.

I developed this after contracting target panic a few years back as well.

I think shooting at a deer/elk 3d target helps a little, but not completely. Its not much of a problem for me when shooting at paper target.

I do think while target shooting, one should concentrate on the first shot of the day, because it is more realistic to a hunting situation. I also think small game hunting with multiple target opportunities also helps. However, I still have the problem.

From: huntmaster
05-Mar-15
My name is Scott and I have a problem...

I have admitted it. Now will it go away? lol

I can kill paper and foam all day long with zero panic. You put an animal in front of me and I do the same thing you described. I'm calm right up to the point of drawing the bow, then it sets in and I feel I need to rush through my entire shot sequence before the animal runs away. So, I am rushing the shot and punching the trigger well before my pin gets settled on the animal.

It's weird, last season I missed two does 15 minutes apart standing in the same exact spot 25 yards on a known trail. The next weekend, I did it again on another doe while I was telling myself that I need to relax on the shot.

The same evening I missed my third doe of the season, I had a buck come in chasing a doe and I throttled him and watched him tip over. The next morning, I shot a coyote that was cruising by and she didn't make it 10 yards.

It's been on and off over the past few years for me. I still have it, but I'm dedicating this spring to fixing it some how. I'm going to try a back tension release and following the target panic program hoping that it will reprogram my shot sequence.

Good luck and thanks for posting this thread.

From: rick allison
05-Mar-15
I had a buddy with the same problem as you. Had him work on pulling to anchor with his eyes closed...fully feeling the mechanics. Count to 3 out loud once at anchor, then open his eyes, aim and release. Worked wonders for him. On paper of course...lol...probably not a good idea on critters :^)

05-Mar-15
i dont have the problem myself. i think if you try drawing back on a few animals and floating the pin until they walk away would probably help. this way you'll see how much time you really have & hopefully program your mind to know they dont bolt right after you anchor. if animals are bolting imo your moving to quickly when you set up & draw. the animal should have no clue your there, giving it no reason to bolt until the arrow passes through. jmo goodluck

From: Arrowflinger
05-Mar-15
For you fellows that are shooting a compound, if you have problems, a back tension release is the way to go as far as I'm conserned. I fought TP for years. I finally tried a back tension release and it worked great! A very deadly setup. Don't let anyone tell you you cant use a Back tension release for hunting. I went to a recurve about 6 years ago and haven't hunted with a compound the last 5 seasons. I put a clicker on my recurve and was doing very well on animals, until this last season. I shoot fine on targets. But I rushed the shot on several animals. TP or buck fever actually on animals. Made a bad shot on an elk, made a beautiful shot on a large hog. Watched him go down! And then rushed the shot on 3 deer. All good close shots. I am going to have to work on that this summer. But like Jaquomo said above in a round about way. :) It happens to us all.

From: Bake
05-Mar-15
I'm not too bad on big game in most situations. Don't hold too long, but don't rush either. Make myself center the sight housing in the peep and shoot for a spot. I almost rushed and punched a shot at my best elk, as he had already spun to leave, but stopped for a last look, but at the last second held off the trigger, centered the sight housing and the pin, and made a good shot. It really doesn't take much extra time to observe the fundamentals. Not if you shoot a lot and work on those fundamentals

I'm TERRIBLE about rushing shots at turkeys while deer hunting from treestands. Those suckers never stick around long, and I've spooked so dang many of them out of a tree. I almost always rush my shots. As a result, I've missed more turkeys out of a treestand than I will ever admit on this site :)

Bake

From: Tracker
05-Mar-15
We have unlimited doe season in most areas here in Maryland and I take advantage of it by shooting as many as I can. It's amazing how much more calmer I am during shot four compared to the first of the season. Not sure how I survived growing up in PA with a one deer a limit season.

From: Chasewild
05-Mar-15
Spot on Joehunter. "I used to have that problem but experience has taught me. And at full draw I always tell myself. "Ok you got em now ur at full draw he isn't goin anywhere. Take ur time from here and aim small." It helps me remember my fundamentals of executing a good shot just like the target range. Has helped me tremendously in making good shots the past few years."

I used to have severe anxiety once I got to full draw on an animal. Now, I when I get to full draw, the hard part is over, and I just focus on my "target" as opposed to what the animal is doing. I remind myself that my bow will do what it needs too if I let the pin find its mark -- no sooner.

I've also lost two animals due to anxiety and that's a sure fire way to make any honest hunter look in the mirror. This is the year long pep-talk I give myself: "its harder to track a wounded animal for hours/days than it is to wait a few seconds for your mind to calm and settle the pin." It's been my mantra.

From: bnt40
05-Mar-15
Rushing a give me shot on a buck several years ago was the straw that broke the camel's back so to say. I missed at 6 yards on a nice buck. I punched the trigger before the pin even got close to his heart or lungs. All I got was some white hair. I spent that winter, in my basement, learning how to shoot a back tension release. It saved me from giving up the bow and it put my tp to rest. I have shot deer with the back tension release since.

From: 12yards
05-Mar-15
Is it a target panic thing? or is it an "I want the animal so bad I'm not waiting for the best shot" thing?

05-Mar-15
x2 wyobullshooter. Dedicated program and back tension release. Some folks say you cannot hunt with a back tension release, but I've got a pile of bone that would prove them wrong!

From: bnt40
05-Mar-15
12yards, the rushing for me was related to target panic. Not sure about others.

From: Dude
05-Mar-15
12yards: agree with bnt40 for me. I shot quite a few deer before I develop target panic and quite a few after. My better shots were before. I constantly telling myself now to pick a spot, but once I draw back on a live animal, something else just takes over.

From: huntmaster
05-Mar-15
Mine kicks in on animals standing at a reasonable distance broadside with their head down. Not sure how that wouldn't qualify as a "best shot".

If the shot sequence unfolds quickly, I do much better I've noticed. I think I revert back to instinct when I don't have time to think about the process and only get to act.

From: sureshot
05-Mar-15
The chip shots that you just can't miss....those are the ones I tend to rush.

From: huntmaster
05-Mar-15
Anyone have a Carter Backstrap or Squeeze Me that they would be willing to sell?

From: HUNT MAN
05-Mar-15
I had to start acting like i was shooting at a 3d target all the time. I just hold and start my shot and bang it goes off. I still fall apart when i have to watch an animal come from along way off. that gets me every time. HUNT

From: Franzen
05-Mar-15
I've made some rushed shots on does and at least one small buck. I must've wanted the meat so bad that I risked taking those horrible short broadside shots!

05-Mar-15
"Is it a target panic thing? or is it an "I want the animal so bad I'm not waiting for the best shot" thing?"

Great question, since the answer is totally different. If it's TP, that's something that's much more complex. If it's simply impatience, that's much more easily remedied. Since Andy, the OP, has had issues with TP in the past, I assumed that was the case now?

If someone is in control of their shot and decides to rush the shot because he/she feels the shot opportunity will quickly disappear, the shooter is still in control of the shot.

If someone has TP, they are no longer in control of the shot. Telling themselves to wait because "they aren't going anywhere" and "take your time" might as well be like telling themselves to hold their breath for 2 minutes...it simply isn't going to work. For someone with TP, you can hold on a spot all day long IF you know you aren't going to shoot. The second you know you're going to shoot, your brain screams "HAMMER IT!!!!". Doesn't matter if your pin is close to where you want to hit or not.

For those that truly have TP, and be honest, you know if you do, then the ONLY way to truly rid yourself of the disease is to get to the root of the problem. Bandaids may help in the short-term, but they WILL fail sooner than later. Develop a surprise release and it will serve you well, even when that bull is screaming at you from 10yds away.

FWIW, the longer you put off taking care of the problem, the worse it gets. The worse it gets, the harder/longer it will take to end the misery, once you decide to. I had a world class case of TP. If I can learn to overcome it, anyone can!

From: drycreek
05-Mar-15
Okay guys, I'm gonna bare my soul for all of Bowsite. Some of you may think this is silly, but I have a little mantra that I say in my head. It goes like this: Draw back Pick a spot Settle your pin Make the shot It works for me , and I don't wait for the shot to " happen ". I know that's not the way the experts say to do it, but I squeeze the trigger like I have shot handguns all my life. Hold the pin as steady as possible and squeeze the trigger. I know when it's gonna go and I'm good with that.

From: Windwalker
05-Mar-15
Most TP is due to one's mental state and that is a very complicated matter. If one has TP he needs to understand why and for the most part find his own solution. It takes a lot of thought, effort and the will to never give up. A back-tension release style and a shot of whiskey ever once in awhile helped me also.

05-Mar-15
Windwalker, I can only recall two animals that stood still long enough for me to indulge in a shot of whiskey before I took the shot. ;-)

From: Jaquomo
05-Mar-15
Some great advice here. I don't have TP, never have, but I've been guilty of rushing the shot a few times, and when it happens I know it's partly from impatience thinking I need to shoot or lose the opportunity.

I've been a trad shooter all my life and only recently got into the compound/sights/release. On the target range it's (impatience) not a problem, but a couple times when shooting at an animal with the compound my subconscious forgets I'm shooting a compound and tells me to settle and release with the same rhythm I've used for 100,000 shots with a trad bow. This is what I need to work on.

There's a great little book called "Advanced Archery, How to stay calm at the center" that gets into the mental aspects of executing the shot, at the zen level. Visualization and establishing the flow to eliminate rushing and TP. I read it years ago and am rereading it now. Great resource.

From: TANGERS
05-Mar-15
Hunt master sent you pm. Located in Michigan and have a Squeeze me release

From: APauls
05-Mar-15
Thankfully haven't had a problem and I wouldn't doubt if daydreaming about floating arrows through vitals 365 days/yr doesn't help that. This way when it comes to fruition I can't even tell you many times it has happened in my mind.

From: OhioHowie
05-Mar-15
I don't have a problem with target panic,,,(?) At least I THINK I don't... My problem is I either forget, or are afraid, to try to stop walking elk or deer at the moment of truth. When they stop on their own, no problem. If they're walking I rush the shot. Is this just another form of target panic. Haven't heard anyone address calling to stop game. Advice?

From: Jaquomo
05-Mar-15
A hard voice grunt locks up bulls every time, and all lows a little movement because they expect to see another bull

From: writer
05-Mar-15
If you have anxiety (target panic) you can plan all the mantras you want,....but you'll forget about them when an animal has you excited.

Every case of target panic has to be handled differently, by what works best for the shooter.

From: Windwalker
05-Mar-15
Wyobullshooter; that was a good one; I got a good laugh from you post!!!

06-Mar-15
TP sits right under the surface with me. It's always there, looking to rear its ugly head.

It's worse with my recurve currently.

I've always treated it by taking a short break and it always goes away.

It's never been a problem on animals. I think mostly because I usually am drawing on bushes or dirt and waiting for vitals to present.

Like Joe, I have a line I say in my head before I drop the string on animals that's very effective for me and gives me confidence, although mine's a little more disturbing than his which is why I've hesitated posting. I have a quick version and a longer version, but it works.

To me, it seems that you go from hunter to killer by adding in a dash of the automation of the target practicer, but there's still that element of intent to kill that is so important in the shot, at least for me. I have to decide the animal is going to die or I rush the shot and miss.

Until I found that intent to kill, I launched arrows all over the place at animals, missing by several feet, sometimes due to TP, sometimes due to rushing, sometimes due to shaking or indecision.

It's funny how different hunting and killing is than target practice even though it's the same motion.

From: coelker
06-Mar-15
Jaquan's, I wanted reply to your first comment! I actually have issue with premature ejaculation as it is usually as good as regular and some same results. My wife may disagree...

On the flip side I have never experienced target panic! I usually take really fast shot, like split second is all it takes for me to get on target when I decide to shoot! Somehow I have always managed to stay cool as a cucumber until after the shot! Once the arrow hit I fall apart!

I hope I never get target panic!

From: oldgoat
06-Mar-15
Yep and it usually takes getting a second chance for me to get it together, that doesn't always happen: (

From: Genesis
06-Mar-15
I'm an early drawer.The extra physical feedback I get from big muscles from a longer hold helps to calm me and keep me in tune with big muscles so my mind doesn't take over.

06-Mar-15
I shoot with a group of traditional shooters. Some of them seemed to rush the shot but on examination they simply executed quickly. There is a huge difference. I try for a routine of draw, fine tune aim.allow release,follow through. When I feel rushed I work on my follow through. Try to maintain sight picture until the arrow hits. This is impossible but the image keeps me from jerking the bow out of the way ruining a shot.

From: AndyJ
06-Mar-15
Thanks for the feedback. It sounds like I'm not alone.

"Is it a target panic thing? or is it an "I want the animal so bad I'm not waiting for the best shot" thing?"

That is a really good question. I would say it has definitely been an, I want the animal so bad thing, at least a few times. I wait for a good shot, I just don't take the time to settle in on the target.

From: 12yards
06-Mar-15
AndyJ, I brought that up because I think that is what I deal with at times. I really want the animal too bad sometimes, which isn't a good thing either as it may lead to taking risky shots. But that is a whole other thread to discuss I suppose.

From: Z Barebow
06-Mar-15
Holy cr@p! This is like an AA meeting! My name is Brian, and I am a rusholholic. This past deer season was the worst.

As others have mentioned, if I could get my arrow aimed on the critter, the bow will send the arrow where it needs to go. My problem is getting it there.

It is bad enough where I wouldn't trust myself by drawing and holding on non target deer. (Fawns). I wouldn't trust myself to not panic and let the arrow fly.

I am going to blow things up in the off season. (I have already started) I have been blind bale shooting. The next thing I am going to work on is coming to full draw, aiming and letting down. I might end up doing this for a few weeks.

I am NOT the guy to help you! I wish I could.

From: AndyJ
06-Mar-15
"If someone has TP, they are no longer in control of the shot. Telling themselves to wait because "they aren't going anywhere" and "take your time" might as well be like telling themselves to hold their breath for 2 minutes...it simply isn't going to work. For someone with TP, you can hold on a spot all day long IF you know you aren't going to shoot. The second you know you're going to shoot, your brain screams "HAMMER IT!!!!". Doesn't matter if your pin is close to where you want to hit or not."

Rob, that is one of the best descriptions of target panic I have ever heard. I practice getting to my anchor and holding by aiming at something I don't want to shoot. If I do that I'm fine. I'm getting better now but back when I had TP bad I could hold off target and float the pin all day. As soon as I put the arrow on target, BAM! It was like my brain had no idea my finger was going to hit the trigger.

I have recently been shooting a recurve a lot. I would like to move that direction this year, although I am finally starting to enjoy shooting my compound again. I've got to say, I could see rushing the shot being as much of a problem with a trad bow as a compound but the difference is I seem to hit where I want with the trad bow.

One thing that has helped me with not rushing a trad shot is I try to imagine holding for the shot. I come to fully draw and pretend the animal hasn't stepped into the shot window. I don't even look at the target. Then after a couple seconds, I imagine the animal steps into the shot window, I pick a spot and let it ride.. It works pretty well.

06-Mar-15
I used to have patience and wait for the perfect shot because I knew I would see other shooter bucks but ever since that stinkin AR was put into place I get impatient since I haven't seen or got a shot at a descent buck since it started. I would pass on nice 8 pts but now its like I see scrubs all the time and when a 8 pt does come close I rush the shot afraid I wont see another bigger one. I seen so many nice buck before AR now scrubs . killed over 40 buck but nothing nice in the last 15 years. getting very impatient!

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