Pepper spray or handgun for bears
Elk
I am hopefully heading to WY this fall to hunt elk. Part of the area we are hunting is grizz country. I didn't want to hijack SDHNTR's thread about holsters to ask this question so I started my own thread. What is your preference for bear country...specifically grizz? Do you carry spray or a handgun? Right now I can't outrun my hunting partner so that is not an option. :)
It seems "the statistics" say bear spray is the more effective, but I carry a .44 Magnum. I'm seriously considering going with the both option. Since I usually hunt alone I've got no one to outrun!
Spray is a lot lighter to carry if you are covering rough country. Never had to use it but it seems a lot easier to hit your target too.
Dang, Mark....should have said something again. Could have gave you my spray when you were here!
IMO handgun... Can be used for animals, people, and is a survival tool as well. It's just good peace of mind, I don't even go to church without one... Haha
Josh
I carry both. It gives me choices based on the situation. The spray doesn't add much weight and provides an effective less than lethal option.
I went with Old Spice stick deodorant cuz Right Guard can's nozzle seemed to fail too often.I'd bet the same on Smith and Wesson quality control versus some plastic mold and sweatshop labor who may not fully understand nor care what is at stake....
I also like "Bang" and the chance of central nervous traverse that SW gives
I'm a big proponent of spray. Whatever you decide to use, make sure it is on you at all times and accessible. Practice with getting it into action fast. If I have an option of returning to camp before tracking and breaking down the elk, I plan to have pack a handgun or shotgun from now on. Keep a sharp watch while working on your elk. Some bears will bluff, break branches and make noise trying to scare you off. Others will come in silent. Good luck and have fun. Hunting in grizzly country can be exciting:)
Like my buddy in AK tells me, try spraying pepper spray in the wind or in a tent and you will quickly determine a handgun works much better
Choose wisely
Good point cnelk. The wind is a big issue....considering there is no wind in Wyoming spray might still be an option. :)
I have put all 15 rounds of 10mm Buffalo Bore hard cast in a five gallon bucket at twenty feet within six seconds from my Glock 20. From the holster. I have heard of spray nozzles breaking/malfunctioning. I have heard of folks spraying themselves and that bear spray residue attracts bears.
Another thing about those bear spray vs gun studies you read that advocate for the use of spray, most of the cases they use are actually not defensive cases as in a charge or bluff on an unsuspecting hiker or hunter in the bush. They are instead mostly made up of cases where bears where rummaging for food or in too close proximity of humans and were sprayed in deterrence. It worked 92% of the time under those conditions. When used under those conditions the spray caused notable harm to the user. Nearly 15% of the users spray themselves.
Of the situations where a gun was used it was almost always someone getting charged or bluffed in the bush.
If I couldn't have a gun I would carry spray.
Before considering the spray, anyone with even mild asthma or allergies should do a little test on themselves first. Make sure you have your Bronchial dilator ready to go.
I found out the hard way that I was allergic to the stuff.
I'll make a long story short simply by saying that several years ago one of my hunters accidently sprayed me and my breathing passages began swelling up to the point that I couldn't breathe. We were in the bush a mile from the truck.
I saved myself by pure luck.
I have never, ever owned or carried any with me and I didn't know that he had a can with him that night.
I'm not hunting in bear country, but it would be an easy choice for me. I've shot big bore hanguns for fifty years. I've never even seen a can of bear spray.
You won't know until you used it. Emptying a glock in six seconds is great, but a bucket ain't going to eat you, and a bear will cover 20 feet in a half a second. Bring both, spray them and then shoot, but all the statistics say spray is best.
You won't know until you used it. Emptying a glock in six seconds is great, but a bucket ain't going to eat you, and a bear will cover 20 feet in a half a second. Bring both, spray them and then shoot, but all the statistics say spray is best.
Ken thats worse then a bear attack Gun for me I cant see the logic in spray .
I carry a 1911 one in the chamber 7 in the mag. just pull back the hammer and drop the other 7 after the first one is gone.
Hard to reload those spray cans....
Talking to a couple AK guys they feel some of those big bears may like their humans Cajun style.....
In my thinking spray likely works well, maybe best... if the situation and circumstances are right. Not too far, not too close, not too windy, not in your tent, not firing a warning shot, you haven't already had an encounter and used some/all of the spray, etc.
As noted above... so many of those encounters where spray is used are not full bore charges. I still have doubts if the spray would stop one intent on pressing it home. One of the arguments WRT firearms is a non-crippling shot with high power weapon doesn't stop them.... have to wonder would the spray do so? Also I'd have to guess the gun owners being who they are.... their encounters or essentially successful warning shots are very under reported.
Spray advantages are non-lethal, can be used in non-charge situations with possibly greater effect than a warning BANG. (Plus no LEO reports, interrogations and possible fines/tickets) possibly faster and more "accurate" for most users. But those normally opting for the spray likely do not shoot a handgun much, if at all. A good call if that is the case.
Best I've seen so far is SteveH and his AR platform 458 SOCOM. Seeing that here made me do a few days of research. Ballistics of a 45/70 with a great quality bullet selection and fairly stock 10 round mag. Build one to any size you feel comfortable with. If I recall in my research 12" barrels are common builds and you can go down to 8" and a "pistol" stock. AR on a sling (or Steve's custom "holster") is both fast and accurate. The round with iron sights is good to 150 yards or so for other uses. And now I have a new "someday" project on the list....
Edit: sorry for the long post.... got myself a little excited there....heheheh...
I love saying that cause it brings out the bear speed statistic guys. The ones that are faster with a can of spray than I am with my gun. And the guys that recommend you saw off the front sight as well.
I would love to see them in slow motion. Reaching down, sliding their finger through the hole, drawing it, pulling the safety tab and getting a spray off on the bear that was charging too fast for me to draw my gun on. The guys that can spray a bear in less than half a second.
Like I said, those statistics are the result of studies that were looking for that result. You can have your campground statistics.
Lots of good comments here. Bottom line is use what you are most comfortable, fast and accurate with. All I need to do with spray is flip the safety off, press the trigger with my thumb and spray with the can still in the holster. It's fast.
I think firearms are a good idea for camp and to have while tracking, processing and packing. It's also a good idea even if it gives you better piece of mind. I spend countless days in grizzly country each year and will stick to just carrying spray while hunting and hiking.
Bowfreak - hope this helps. Feel free to PM.
I choose the spray because I couldn't hit a charging bear with a handgun if I tried!!!! My guess is that most if they were honest couldn't either. It's not about just simply hitting the bear but you better kill it if it's charging for real!!! It is so fast and there is so little time and even a huge bear presents a very small target. Until you've been there and seen it first hand you really don't have a clue. Like others have said choose what you feel is best. I wouldn't touch off spray in camp, especially in a tent but also keep in mind if you shoot a bear with a gun your hunt is over!!! Right or wrong there will be an investigation and it will consume your hunt like a grizzly hits a gut pile.
Any determined bear coming hard for you (see the Eichler video) can cover 30-40 feet per second. Assuming you see him coming and have time to deploy spray, you'll have something under one second (window) to use the spray. Most sprays won't reach out beyond 10-20 ft and will have less range in a head or crosswind. This is not a criticism; just a reality of the product. At 15 ft from a pissed grizzly I will likely be spraying all kinds of things in an involuntary fashion.
I have both forms of defense and take them with me. If I'm going into grizzly country for a true wilderness hunt, I will always be found packing a big handgun. It probably helps that I can shoot/practice right off my back deck anytime I want, so gun proficiency isn't a concern.
So let me get this straight...YOU get in to trouble if YOU kill a Grizz that was trying his best to kill you?How does that work?
Can you cite self-defence?
I've never encountered grizzlys but I was bluff charged by a black bear and I knew she was there with Cubs. I was leaving the area when she saw me and she went from 100 yards to 5 yards in the blink of an eye. At least as fast as the fastest I've ever seen a deer run. She then escorted me out of the area, never getting farther than 15 yards from me. If she wanted to she would have been on me. If s bear comes out of nowhere I don't think any protection will stop them before they make contact. Friends of mine used to run an elk outfit north of Yellowstone. They got a rare free night during season and everyone went to town, except 2 guys left at camp. That night one guy went to bed and another was sitting by the fire. He had forgot to tie the camp dog up for the night and a sow grizzly with Cubs came past camp. The dog went after then barking and came back running into the tent, past the guy outside. The sow was right behind Her. At 30 yards he tried to draw his pistol but she hit him before he could clear the holster. She mauled him a bit and went to leave. He thought she was gone and he tried to move. She was right back on him, this time however he already was drawn. He basically stuck a 44 in her mouth and touched off around. She left in a hurry that time. He managed to survive and had a long recovery. She was found dead like a mile away later on. My take on spray is that most times it is tested on bears in garbage or something similar and works. But do do rubber bullets in that situation. I don't want to use rubber bullets to try and stop a charging bear..... I figure there is s good chance that if a bear charges out of nowhere it will make contact with you, regardless of what you carry. If I'm in the middle of being mauled, I want some serious hardware and pray I can stuff the muzzle against it anywhere. Not spray that requires a shot to the face. Just my thoughts.
Last Oct I went on a sheep huntin Wyoming (area 1) This area is known for Grizz. The Outfitter and his 4 guides all carried 44 Mags. All said that they have had to use them on a Bear charging in to claim a elk. I ask why not spray. All gave me the same answerer. They just trusted the firearm alot more. Said a 12 ga with slugs and 00 buck shot is better yet. Never went out side of the bear fence without either or both.
"So let me get this straight...YOU get in to trouble if YOU kill a Grizz that was trying his best to kill you?How does that work?
Can you cite self-defence?"
My personal philosophy:
Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six.
I'd rather shoot than spray. I'd rather be tried and convicted and feel like crap, than BE (bear) crap. I just wish I thought I'd ever have the chance to go where I need Grizzly protection. Hunt safe guys.
whats bear spray...hahah Tuarus 45/410 without ?
You are deluded about the stopping power of your semi-auto if that is what you are relying on for protection from a griz. If it has to be a handgun one of those really big bore magnum revolvers is what you need minimum.
I wouldn't recommend shotgun/buckshot combo.You need your best chance of traverseing the central nervous system and buckshot is a poor choice for that.
I carry a snubnose .460 with brass solids called a punch bullet (winner of every penetration test in handguns)
Grizzly Cartridge gets the bullet from Belt Mountain (machined brass with poured lead in cavity back) and loads them.They are available in .45/.44mag/.454/.460
$4 each but my best chance I feel
Garrett makes a great load (non brass) hard cast flat nose as well and cheaper.
Barty:
If you want to know what can happen if you kill a grizzly that is trying to kill you google the Ed Wiseman story or the last Grizzly killed in Colorado. Granted this was in Colorado but, shows what can happen if you kill a Grizzly.
From the charts of Buffalo Bore Ammo:
Heavy .40 Smith & Wesson +P Ammo - 155 gr. (1,300 fps/M.E. 582 ft. lbs.)
Heavy 10mm Ammo - 180 gr. Jacketed Hollow Point (1,350fps/M.E. 728 ft. lbs.)
Lower Recoil .44 Magnum Ammo - 255 gr. Keith - G.C. (1,350 fps/M.E. 1,032 ft. lbs.)
Heavy .44 Magnum Ammo - 270 gr. JFN (1,450fps/M.E.1,260 ft. lbs.)
Heavy .44 Magnum +P+ Ammo - 340 gr. L.F.N. - G.C. (1,478 fps/M.E. 1,649 ft. lbs.)
454 Casull Ammo - 300 gr. J.F.N. (1,650 fps/M.E. 1,813 ft. lbs.)
460 Smith & Wesson Ammo - 300 gr. J.F.N. (2,060fps/M.E. 2,826 ft. lbs.)
From a knockdown standpoint, the only criteria that matters is ft. lbs. of energy and projectile performance. Firearms use for self defense (in this case bears) isn't predicated on convincing the bear to give up and go away. It's predicated on damage to the skeletal or nervous systems which will incapacitate a bear. In EF Hutton's post above, the shooter kept firing because he was not incapacitated. Had an officer's round hit his spine or brain...totally different outcome.
Spray doesn't incapacitate either. It's an irritant which is typically intolerable to an animal. Just like a firearm it is not failsafe or completely dependable. It works. So do handguns and rifles...and shotguns, too. Make your choice and hope you never need to prove that it works.
I choose to pack a 44mag pistol while hunting, but on game retrieval it’s usually a 12 gauge loaded with slugs. I live in northwest Montana and am in grizzly country every time I step out of my door. I have had this discussion with many people and I myself feel more comfortable packing a pistol. Just be confident with whatever you pack and practice with whatever it is you use.
Couple things to keep in mind. It takes some serious nerve to stand strong with a bear coming at you and waiting til it is 30 feet away. I myself would rather give a warning shot a little further out than that. If you’re an archery hunter you should be hunting downwind from the animal your hunting, which means the wind, is blowing in your face or if you blow all the bear spray in 1 shot what do you do if the bear gets mad and decides to charge again. Those are the reasons I choose a gun rather than bear spray. My personal opinion.
I wouldn't base my decision on the "Stats".
From talking to many game dept folks, I get the impression they do not want those bears killed under ANY situation. There is a huge push for the spray. The case of those Outward bound kids that sprayed a bear and then a little while later he came back and mauled them makes me wonder about the spray- but no doubt it is effective in the right scenario.
Edit; plus I bet many guys repelling these bears with firearms aren't the reporting types
I think I posted it before, but I met a guy a while back who sprayed a charging grizzly in Yellowstone and turned it. It rubbed it's face in the dirt for a few seconds and then came right back at him a second time. He went to spray again but his can was empty, luckily the bear ran right over the top of him, he thought he was toast...So, I guess that means you need to carry two cans to be really safe? I like my gun...
I'm not deluded. I have many big bores, 44s and a 454, as well as the glock 20. There is NO DOUBT that I am better defended with the glock 20 and hard cast against a threat from ANY living creature on our continent. I won't be a statue in the situation which is what I would have to do to get accurate shots off with the big bore revolvers, especially a follow up. I've tried rapid firing my 454, it's too tough to do with confidence even if you life depended on it. It would basically be a one shot deal. The 44s are easier but still unwieldy. I can shoot the glock 20 like a banshee. It is a very impressive platform that delivers amazing power with 15 high power hardcast rounds. It lags quite close behind standard 44 ammo power. Their are no bear bones that will stop it any better than the big bores. Its all about penetration. Its also very easy to carry on my drop down tactical holster on my upper right thigh, out of the way of waist belt or shoulder straps. Pistol hunting is just a different story. If you don't understand this I can't help you.
And, if I shoot at a bear the first thing I do is NOT going to be update my facebook and send the dow an email of what just happened from my smart phone.
I did some research on this a while ago. If memory serves I recall spray being more affective at preventing an attack... HOWEVER, if the bear does attack after being sprayed/shot, the firearm is more effective at preventing death.
I carry a gun
Go ahead and carry spray. I'll carry a big gun and I guarantee I won't have any second thoughts about if I made the right choice or not.
The "statistics" on a firearm versus pepper spray are ridiculous. It is purely based on a very close encounter with a bear.
What about the typical encounter where you actually first see a bear at a bit of a distance? Say 20 yards. Would you rather be emptying your handgun on a charging bear from 20 yds away or wait with your pepper spray in hand while he gets to the effective 3 yards or less!!
Maybe a .40/9mm will kill enough rabbits that Grizz will stop to pick one up giving you a chance at escape..:)
Frontal attack requires deepest penetration,this isn't the clown shoot at the State Fair.The deeper you go the greatest chance of crossing the CNS.
I dare say that first shot accuracy will be similar with each handgun and you have no guarantees of even that.Second shot could be closer to a tonsillectomy than we would like to think.Go Big
I found this article pretty interesting on this topic:
http://www.elk-hunting-tips.net/bear-spray.html
The velocities and energy listed above diminishes greatly if you're looking at the snub nosed models. Garrett says nothing less than a 4" barrel.
"Their are no bear bones that will stop it any better than the big bores."
Not a chance!
Here in BC, I live and hunt in grizzly country. I have been charged 3x by grizzlies. Never had to shoot one, as they all bluffed. I've seen grizzlies run full-out and it is impressive to say the least. Personally, I think the vast majority of people over-estimate their proficiency with a sidearm, and underestimate the speed at which an encounter occurs. Other than a select few who are experts with a sidearm under stressful conditions, most (including myself) are better-off with bear spray.
....better yet, though is a shotgun or open-sighted rifle, but that's not what's being discussed
It will not register that you are being charged until it is about over. I hunt the same areas all the time in grizzly country and I generally know where the bears are prior to entering the area. I first try to avoid them, but if not I hope to be able to spot them prior to being within their zone. If I feel the bears are around I generally strap my bow up and carry the pistol.
Here is something to think about
Average speed of a grizzly is 35mph.
That means at 100 feet away the bear will be at your toes in 2-3 seconds. So regardless of what you use bear spray or a handgun you better be quick. If you’re hunting you probably have a bow in one hand a release on the other, maybe a gps or range finder. You first have to loose whatever you are holding onto then get whatever you decide to pack ready to protect yourself.
Probably a stupid question but why is the pepper spray faster then a pistol? It seems like you have to do about the same movement.
It all depends on so many variables no two grizz encounters will ever be the same ! I was involved in a charge I didnt have a sidearm on that trip but if i did i had plenty of time to fire at the charging grizz. Next year i bought the 454 !! Guns dont expire spray does !
Very good point city hunter, best comparison yet.
Wow....I was busy today on my honey do list and didn't get back to this thread. There is some awesome information in this thread. Thanks to all of you that responded.
I am speaking with zero knowledge or experience but one thing I thought about with regard to spray is that if you were to accidentally get caught with some overspray during a bear attack I would assume (don't know this) that you would at least survive. I am sure you would be miserable but as long as the bear is turned you are still alive.
I think that it is safe to say that there is no certainty involved with bear attacks or defense of them.
I can also fly anywhere and with anyone packing a gun. For me the spray is pretty much not even getting out of the gate.
Handgun specifically.... not so much in Canada or a few other countries.... spray would hands down be the best personal carry option as opposed to nothing. God bless the USA....
Dakota, I think actual speed of deployment is pretty much a wash, "accuracy" under pressure and at a speeding target I think is one of the main debates. I'd have to give that one to the spray.... withing a narrow distance range.
Where's TBM when you need him.... I recall he sprayed hisself by accident once with bear spray....
I commercially fished on Kodiak Island as a young man. A 12 gauge shotgun with a slug (around 400 grains I think) was considered the most effect weapon for stopping a Kodiak Grizzly. Did everyone use one? No. The majority of guys carried handguns if they were on shore for some reason. The 12 gauge is just not practical. I use pepper spray and my brother who calls for me carrys a sidearm. Thankfully we have never had to use either. I have not read the statistics on self inflicted injuries with handguns during high pressure situations (bear charge, etc), but my guess is there are plenty. Someone who knows that stat, it would be interesting to hear about.
Ive had the chance to spray several charging bears with peper spray as well as kill one charging grizzly with a .44 mag, one charging brown with a .44 mag, and one charging brown with a .375. (I spend about 5 months a year hunting bears in Alaska) The benefit to pepper spray is you dont have to kill a bear you didnt intend to kill, it is faster as you dont neccesarrily need to draw it, and you dont neccesarily need a direct hit to detour most bears. However, you dont want the wind in you face, it doesnt work in a tent, and some bears do come back (especially if your on their food source). When guiding, I typically carry my .375 and pepper spray. I have enough confidence that the pepper spray will stop the charging bear, but if he or she comes back... When personally bowhunting for years I packed my .44. Now I typically pack pepper spray and my bow. The pepper spray will stop the charge, but if it doesnt change their mind I will have plenty of time to shoot with my bow as they stumble around blind. My .44 is usually in camp. If i was bowhunting in bear country in Wyoming, I would probably pack pepper spray and hunt and camp smart.
I don't care what YOU carry for bear protection, I care what I carry! And I care a LOT...
Many academic "experts" will tell you that bear spray is better than a firearm and cite statistics. It seems to me that many of them have never been nibbled on or had other close-encounters with bears other than in their research.
I would be more inclined to listen to folks like Jonah Stewart, just above. But I don't agree with him about spray being preferable. (I am MUCH older....!)
I consider bear spray "natural selection in a handy aerosol can." I prefer a firearm.
When guiding, I carry a big bore rifle, but when I carry a firearm just for bear protection, I carry a 12 gauge with buckshot and slugs behind it.
Buckshot MAY not penetrate like a rifle bullet, but often does. More to the point, in the blur of a close encounter, buckshot has a wonderful tendancy to compensate for the inevitable lack of accuracy.
I would use spray myself if A. I could be sure the wind would never blow! and B. I could be sure I never needed to "reload!" Get back to me when these variables are guaranteed.
My opinion on this is based on 50 years of dealing with bears as a hunter and guide. Based on being in on the killing of several hundred bears (black, brown and grizzly.) Based on dealing with a handful of bears that charged. Based on spraying about a dozen bears myself. And based on 30+ years of teaching a course called "Working in Bear Country" for Alaska DNR employees (including a 1/2 day each class, of range qualification.)
Again, I carry a firearm. I don't care what YOU use! Carry what YOU are comfortable with.
Pete
Hey Pete,
You should do some tests with buckshot at 5-10 yards. See what the spread is. It's not much and WILL NOT compensate for a lack of accuracy.
A human is no bear, but I've seen a human that was shot in the face with 00 buckshot at close range and most recently, another with a .243 rifle. I can't imagine that anything could charge through any of them.
In the Rock-Paper-Scissors game of life, all bullets beat face.
Stonegoat,
I've done a LOT of tests with various sizes of buckshot at various ranges with various shotguns. And the spread depends a lot on the size of the buckshot and the choke.
I've also killed a lot of bears with it.
During my LEO phase, I've seen it go through car doors and still pack a punch.
If you don't like buckshot, don't use it. I like it and use it.
Pete
I was just reading an article about this is one my magazines. It was either Predator Xtreme or Peterson's Hunting magazine. There are about 1/2 as many injuries when using spray as compared to when someone brings out a firearm. Spray seems to be the most effective option for various reasons.
As has been mentioned, I tried carrying my first elk season and I got tired of hauling the extra weight around.
I've said this before. If it were me, I'd rather have something that shot something solid and made a very loud BANG...than something that went pssst !!
Jonah,
Did the 44 lay them down (obviously dependent of shot placement) or did you turn them?
I have often wondered why someone doesn't invent a flare-gun type weapon which does 3 things: 1) huge flash, 2) loud bang, 3) cloud of pepper gas. I'd be willing to test it on my neighbor's wandering dog...
When I lived in Alaska the statement made most often about carry a revolver for bear protection is once you spent 5 rounds on the bear the best thing is you have one left to put in the roof of your month. I always carried shotgun with slugs.
Both charging bears i had to shoot with a .44 hit the ground hard with the first shot. I hit the brown bear high in the shoulder with a 1 handed shot because my bow was in the other hand, and i hit the grizzly right under the chin. I remember not feeling very safe in either situatin. Would definately prefer my .375 on a charging bear but its not practical to carry while bowhuntng.
Kevin, I will be trying out one of these this year!
Mike, I'm thinking that dude would look pretty impressive to a baggage screener! ;-)
Sorry! Had to do this:
We advise that outdoorsmen wear noisy little bells on their clothing so as not to startle bears. We also advise outdoorsmen to carry pepper spray with them in case of an encounter with a bear. It is also a good idea to watch out for fresh signs of bear activity.
Outdoorsmen should recognize the difference between Black Bear and Grizzly Bear droppings. Black bear droppings are smaller and contain lots of berries and squirrel fur. Grizzly bear droppings have little bells in it and smell like pepper.
Thanks guys for your replies
I don't want the stupid question I don't ask about hunting in Grizz country to be the last question ever
Reckon I'll be packing one of 'THESE' in with me when I hit elk country with a risk of any Grizz Shizz going down...
.600 Nitro Express...should put the calm on anything encountered in the Backwoods
Before anyone buys one of the hand cannons I STRONGLY advise shooting one first. They are extremely difficult to be accurate with, much less with follow up shots.
I tote the G20 with 220grain hard cast bullets for many reasons. Mentally, I feel safer with a gun than spray: can fire warning shots before they reach 20 ft, have 15 shots ready to go vs a one time discharge, not affected by windy conditions, just as effective once he's already on top of you vs spraying something already standing over you and incapacitating yourself along with the bear, equally effective against two legged attackers whom I think are as much or more of a threat. I KNOW I can't handle the big revolvers accurately enough to protect my life, but I'm pretty darn accurate and more importantly fast with my G20.
Carry what makes you feel most comfortable but a big bore rifle/shotgun in camp and a G20 on my waist is what I am most comfortable with up in thick bear country in Alaska.
Have to admit, this is one of our best spray vs gun posts in a while! Lots of opinions to agree with, but I especially like Mike Us point about the advantage of a gun to scare one off if needed. One point that has not come up yet was a reply by Mule Power on a past post. In short, with the onslaught of wolves in multiple states, think about how well pepper spray will work on a pack! If you have never seen a pack in the wild yet or on a fresh kill, count yourself lucky, but carry a gun as you will get one with the pepper spray and the others will get you and bite the can. I'll stay with the pistol. Woof wolf.
TEmbry, that 10 has some pop and the right bullet used is a bigger factor than many realize.
That said, I've been doing a good deal of very entertaining research on the glock 460 Rowland... 44 mag performance.... compensated barrel.... not that I need any, you know... compensation.....
in our arsenal, we have the following
Ruger Redhawk .44 mag. Magnaported. Carried in a bandolier holster at the ready.
Ruger Redhawk .454 Casull. Magnaported. Carried in a bandolier holster at the ready.
Remington Model 870 Marine Magnum with an extended magazine tube, Magnaported, and a folding stock. Carried on a sling.
Marlin Stainless Guide Gun .45-70. Custom muzzle brake, Bear-proof shell extractor, trigger job, Ghost ring sight system, and a scope with quick detachable scope rings (that is off the gun in a pack in case of need). Carried on a sling.
All guns get loaded with the hottest magnum penetrator loads. We choose the gun based upon the activity, perceived risk, and ease of carrying and keeping at the ready. The gun must be on your person, not laying next to your fishing tackle on a gravel bar or back in camp.
I tested UDAP by spraying with the wind. There was a slight backdraft and a tiny amount got on my face. I was incapacitated immediately, and miserable for the rest of the day.
My son is a guide and bush pilot in Alaska. He carries both spray and a gun. The spray is to put the guests at ease. The gun is to put himself at ease.
Decide what is best for you. Become an expert in using your chosen defense weapon and practice regularly.
We have been in some very dangerous situations created by the bear not us. You must get your mind right well in advance of the situation that if the need arises, you will shoot to kill or spray the bear in defense of life or property.
As to big bore revolvers - go with double action. Avoid single action revolvers. If a bear is on you, with double action, just pull the trigger. With single action, you must cock the hammer. What if the bear has you pinned and cocking the hammer is impossible? What if your thumb is incapacitated? What if your brain freezes and you forget to cock the hammer?
Follow the advice of "Pete in Fairbanks" since he has more experience tha just about anyone.
Best wishes.
"If you were leaving camp this morning and somehow knew with certainty a bear or bears would try to kill you, what defense would you carry?"
I always enjoy asking that question. Don't fool yourself because this is the exact scenario anyone might face in grizzly country.
Just make sure you always hunt with someone you can outrun and then it won't matter!
Ive heard rubbing bacon grease all over your body will repel them, or is that bee's Never mind, stick with the gun
Bear spray exceeds a bullet relative to 2 critical variables in a bear attack: space and time. The cloud has a wider effective zone and lingers quite a time in the immediate area.
I've done a lot of defensive drilling with my carry gun and I know my chances of making an immediate killing shot on a charging bear in a draw and fire scenario are ridiculously leaner than the prospect of bear spray being insufficient to thwart the attack.
To each his own.
