ATers more helpful than Bowsiters. Why?
Elk
I recently submitted PM's to 10 ArcheryTalk members and 10 Bowsiters about an upcoming hunt that I'm researching and I'm super excited about.
All of the ArcheryTalk and Bowsite members were chosen using the same criteria. I sent the same message to all 10 ATers and all 10 Bowsiters--not asking for honey holes, just hints, suggestions, etc--and I gave the same amount of time for replies.
Six ArcheryTalk people have gotten back to me. Most of them have given me surprisingly high levels of info, they've repeatedly answered my follow-up questions, and some have even offered to help me out on location this fall.
ZERO Bowsiters have replied. ZERO. To be perfectly honest, I spend way more time on Bowsite, and I'm very surprised by this. I actually would have expected the opposite result before I did my little experiment.
Anybody have any explanations?
I have a perfect answer for you. I very seldom remember to check for messages. I don't have anything set up to let me know I have a message.
Perhaps Bowsiters are smarter, more experienced and more savvy than those who frequent Archery Talk?
Who in the world would give away their honey holes on line?
Tell us what you want help on right now and we'll see want happens. I have NEVER not answered a PM asking for help! C
You may want quality versus quantity!
Good hunting spots come from earning them by fatigue, sweat, many a dollar in gas money, endless miles looking, experience, etc.... I'm forced to believe that anyone who would openly blab off to anyone who inquired about them usually are doing so while being short on any or many of the criteria above. Meaning, it might not be as good as you think.
I've helped guys in the past. So has everyone here. But, they didn't just send a random PM requesting it. If they had, they would have never received it. As to do with much in life, they way you approach it will determine the outcome.
FWIW, I know of this place here in southern WV that has 20 percent slopes, road access to within 100 yards of every stand site you'd want to hunt, no one hunts it, and the bucks are huge and uneducated. The average deer I kill is 130" or so. And I average 20 deer sightings a day. I'll tell you where it is at if you PM me. :^)
See how easy that was and what I mean? Somethings sound to good or are offered to freely to be as advertised. God Bless
Bowsitera are busy folks with lots going on. Archery talkers are unemployed illiterates who have nothing else to do but wait for online relationships
Honestly I don't get on AT too much. And had little experience with PM's there. But even with focused specific PM's NOT asking for hunting spots, I have had maybe 50% replies.
On BS I think my over all PM response is more like 90% (all subjects). I do agree, the notification system for the BS system is a bit weak, and can see how they could be missed. I'm on here minimum 3-4 times a day and sometimes miss one for a couple days.
--Jim
X2 Bou !! Don't feed the troll !!
maybe im just getting cranky in my old age of 46, but why should I give up years of experience to help someone I don't know AT ALL!!!!!
I think a lot of it is that AT has a lot better PM notification system. Bowsite is awesome, but some things here are in need of updating.
Gold, your statement is JUST YOUR OPINION concerning who is helpful.
Actually I have been on the Bowsite for nearly 18 years and have never seen your name come up on any thread or any contribution other than this thread.
Bowsiters not helpful? You got to be kidding.
My best, Paul
lol... That's an easy question yo answer. Over on Archery Talk, everyone is an expert over there and will try to be better then everyone else. They know how to spread the BS, and will do anything to gain notice and popularity. They want everyone to know who they are and just how good they are..
I agree that the problem is most likely the messaging system on Bowsite. I've missed messages for weeks even though it's supposed to notify me by email (or it goes in my junk mail?). There's no flashing envelope or BIG BOLD notification that you have a message... I've had many PM's go un-responded to, including offers to help with good info. This is a great site but nothing's perfect and I still prefer the personality of this forum far above the other one.
I've received thoughtful advice from people who do not even care for me much and I have never had a PM gone unanswered. I've had a few take days.
Paul, I mean no offense to you or to anyone here, really. And this is not the name that I usually use to post here, so that's why you don't recognize it. You and I have had at least one very positive interaction on here in the last few years. I respect you greatly and have learned a lot from your posts.
This is not meant to be an AT vs. BS thread. My reason for posting was really just to try to figure out what's going on because I was so surprised at the result.
I think RutNut, JTreeman, and Scrappy might be on to something. I have also had PM's go unnoticed by me on here for long periods of time because of no email notification.
And for those of you who are in attack mode like NvaGvUp, well, maybe you should read my original post a little more carefully.
I specifically stated that I DID NOT ask for honey holes. Just basic advice about a very seldom in a lifetime unit that most will not go to more than a couple of times in their lives....
I don't know what y'all's screen looks like, but on mine, when I have a message, it's in bright red words that say " You have a private message ". What could be easier ?
It's far from obvious on my screen unless I go looking for it. I've thought many times that almost anything could be easier. And while I'm on it, as far as I know there's no way to check PMs on the Mobile version.
"And this is not the name that I normally post on here"
Ok, now I get it! Sorry!
jsgold, is it likely that you are someone who has been banded from this site? why all the secrecy as to who you really are?
I have helped a few here on Bowsite, but I won't help ANY who keep their identity a secret.
I always get a message on the right side of the screen that says I have a new private message. Sometimes I don't have time to read and respond but always do within a day. No problems with this web site ever. And I might add this site has never been hi-jacked. Good security too. Never have I had a PM gone ignored. A great group of bow hunters reside on here. Bob.
Jsgold... What is your handle you usually go by? If you don't mind?
Didn't read all replies so this has maybe been mentioned. AT sends a person an email when they get a private message and bowsite does not anymore. At least I'm not getting emails on Bowsite.
I too have never had a problem contacting people. It's like most things in life, just know how, or learn how to start a conversation.
I use Bowsite more than I do AT for my own reasons, and none of those are because one is better than the other.
What ever you choose to do, get involved, freely give guys some good solid advice and others will see that you are a good contributor and help you in return when requested. It's that Karma thing...that I believe so much in.
I've always had great responses from bowsiters. Very good group.
Yup! Super good group of guys here on Bowsite. Always seem to be willing to help and give advice. Sometimes responses take a few days but hey, people are busy. Most responses that hold any merrit take some actual thought instead of idiots just spewing bull$H!t pretending to have a wealth of knowledge. Just my 2c
I frequent AT and don't get emails when I get a pm on AT. Anyway I have had good experiences from fellow bowsiters. I have learned a ton from fellow bowsiters in just the threads here.
I have had good luck with folks here on Bowsite. Some really good people here IMO.
I've only had help (and quite a bit of it) and given some help to some regulars here.
I go to archery talk to use the classifieds and see which bow decals might be en vogue.
A PM notification email on BS would be nice though...
Gold, I've helped some people on here when contacted via pm. I don't just offer A+ material but if you contact me and show me that you've put forth effort, I'll help in many different ways.
I had one guy pm me and just straight up asked for honey holes. I never responded. It could just be coincidence or maybe you're not asking the right questions. Hopefully either one of us may be able to help the other out in the future!
PM's used to give you an email notification... As far as I know, you have to actually look to see if you have PMs, rather than getting a push message... It would be better to have the ability to connect text messaging or email to PMs or at least let subscribers have that option on how they wish to get notified... Just my 2 cents for what it's worth..
I've had good success on bowsite as well. I would however like a better PM notification system as well.
It was nice when you got an email notification before. I miss them all the time and the system will only keep them for so long.
I'd start a thread and ask your questions. Folks will PM you here, answer general questions with a post, never failed me. I've had guys send me maps with spots marked on them.... after I bought my tag.... made good sense.
Only reason I go to AT is the classified and some specific tech issue to research. They seem more tech oriented, bowsite much more bowhunting oriented. A group of world class hunters here with hunting knowledge off the charts. The semi-live and live hunts are high adventure, and high quality. You will see many here who write stories for the better magazines.
Did AT have a hundred plus folks at an event to meet and, um.... socialize.... at P&Y? Bowsite rocks...
PMs? meh.... start a thread.
Ok, now I'm confused...Why the secret squirrel stuff?
"And this is not the name that I usually use to post here, so that's why you don't recognize it."
TBM is back...?
Well you certainly didn't ask me for anything. I check my PMs every time I log on and have helped as many people as the welfare system!
Here's another thing to think about... the amount of experience on here is insane. AT can't even begin to compare. So you could gain more information on here without even sending a PM than you could by PMing every single member over there on Romper Room.
Sorry, I dint see the PM till now
Tobin, not to worry. You weren't one of the 10 that I PM'd. And to repeat, I DID NOT ask any specifics about locations, just general info about the unit. I have no doubt you would have helped me with my questions.
There definitely seems to be some agreement here that the PM notification system or lack thereof could be the source of the AT 6/10 and BS 0/10 result.
Part of the reason for my use of PMs in this particular instance is that folks have been flamed pretty hard here on BS for NOT using PMs and using the open forum when asking about this exact unit. I was trying to be discreet for the sake of the people I was contacting, so they would know their answers would remain private.
There are a lot of really, really great people on here. No doubt about it. Some of them have even been a part of this conversation.
Sadly, it seems there are some, well, not so great people on here as well. My 8-year-old can tell that just by reading some of the replies above.....
Hey... I think Ike is on to something.....
Could only hope TBM has finally found a gathering of admirers on AT....
jsgold, If you PM'd me, I'd never know it. I got out of the habit of checking for them more than once a month.
If you'd mentioned in your initial post that you were asking for information about a particular unit, you would have caused less confusion about why you were being secretive.
I have never had an issue with people not returning personal messages, nor have I had issue with people sharing information.
I don't find the notification all that tricky to use, it's hard to imagine that was the issue. Not knowing how the question was phrased, it's hard to say what the issue was.
Why won't you share the name you've used previously?
Have you guys noticed while setting around a camp fire that if you add more and more fuel to the fire, what happens?
Sort of what is happening here.
Want the fire to go out, then just _______on it.
My best, Paul
Hire a guide it sounds like u need your hand held
X2 Paul! That would have solved the TBM issue for sure!
The difference between AT and BS is threads like this. Threads that are for a bored person and really dont help anyone with their hunting.
Who did you PM?
What area did you ask about?
The reason I ask is many guys won't answer a PM if they feel you have been lazy and not done a search first.
There is so much on elk hunting and on so many units that if you did a search I would be shocked if you didn't come up with something.
Also, your name is not familiar in here so guys are also more wary with "new" guys just looking to get info and bailing.
BTW I highly doubt you asked the core elk guys in here.
The premise is flawed, it's not the website it's the people "some they do and some they don't"
"and have helped as many people as the welfare system! "
Mulepower, that is a LOT of people!!!!!
I agree recievng an email that you have a PM would be great.
However, it seems to me that most people looking for help with an area first start a thread, and then give some history/background of what they are looking for, and then ask a few specific questions and ask for PM replys.
Ike. You got me The reel questions I sent those peple in those pms was: do simonsharks work too do a hamblaster on wyo unit 7 elks like they work too do a hamblaster hear on the most smart deer in the wirld? HDYLMK
Seriously, fellas, Paul is right. Best just to let this thread die. It's fruitless.
Obama is our president, and I drew a tag, therefore I am entitled to all of your information, I will even run a secret test to see who replies and who does not. If no one replies, I will publicly shame them on the forum with the results of my test...
jsgold, I can see you are doing your best to di-fuse an unintended situation.....way too much emotion now...advice to just "drop it" is probably wise....I feel bad for everyone !!
Joe
Case in point I suppose...
I'm a recurve guy so most of my time is on LW. But I check in here also.
Bowhunting is bowhunting irregardless of gear choices...other than crossbows of course.
I've posted and recieved PM's on both sites...albeit primarily on LW. I've never had any non-responces on LW, and only once here.
I'm on this side of the fence mostly for the hunting info...much more prevalent than LW...which seems to lean more towards 3-D and gear discussion...or...arguments.
"And while I'm on it, as far as I know there's no way to check PMs on the Mobile version."
Right there on the Home page...
The true reason you got No replies from Bowsiters is we are in the woods and mountains doing our Spring and Summer scouting. Along with shed hunting. An the reason I am not out, major surgery in late April. HOPE to be hunting here in Pa. this fall.
I always wonder what they say about bowsite over on AT?? Im sure it's only kind words!! :)
"I think a lot of it is that AT has a lot better PM notification system. Bowsite is awesome, but some things here are in need of updating." - RutNut@Work
This^^^ Also, why did you PM 10 people? Why not just start a new thread? I am on both AT and Bowsite. I always thought Bowsiters were more civil than many on AT. Then I read this thread.
Wow SwampStalker, you think that those here are more civil than those on AT. Personally, I go to AT very little, I started with bowsite about 10 or 12 years ago and have been here ever since. I think it was here that I heard about AT. I mainly go there for the classified section, and also the do it yourself section, on how to build stuff. But back to your statement. I have seen many get bashed for what seemed like no reason. Personally, I have never been attacked. I have had disagreements, but they always ended civilly, but again, I have seen some harsh statements made towards others here. So if it gets worse on AT, I don't believe I would want to visit there much.
As for myself, if I wouldn't say something to someone else in person, I wouldn't write it, but not all seem to share that sentiment.
I see a lot get tore a new one when asking for advice. I don't understand this. I will help anyone I can, and I am fortunate enough to say that MANY great guys here on bowsite have helped tremendously with advice, varying from equipment to destinations.
Concerning destination advice, everyone wants to throw out, that someone needs to go scout. I love hunting as much as anyone, and if I were able - logistically and financially - I would get some generic ideas and head out and wear on that shoe leather, BUT, to do so would cost twice as much as the hunt itself for me. So I ask for help. I don't see that it is a big deal for any unit that is very difficult to draw. On the other hand, if it is a unit or area that can be hunted annually, I fully understand the tight lips, but still yet, no need for harsh feedback.
As far as the differences the original poster received, I would speculate that it has to do with the PM situation. Though the PMs here aren't terribly difficult to find, or see, it was very nice when an email was sent to let someone know they had a PM. To me that made PM's more noticeable. I can honestly say though, with what time I have spent on AT, the PM system there is not, or not much, better, unless I am missing something.
You biggest mistake was to say, "Not asking for anyones honey hole, BUT!!!!"
I never knew were to find my PM's until recently, furthermore Bowsite cleans them out for you. So when I realized where they were questions I had asked long ago, had they been answered, were already gone. Without the email notification I will probably never notice a PM unless I'm waiting for it. Without a doubt BS pm's are the worst designed PM system I've encountered.
I don't even look at the front page. I instantly, before it completely downloads, start clicking forums tab..etc.
WHO did u PM ? who are these 10 bowsiters ?
On AT you can set it up, through your UserCP, to get email messages when you get a PM. When you subscribe to a thread, you can set it up to receive an email when a new post is added. It is more advanced than Bowsite in that regard.
Here, I can't find anywhere to update or change my profile or preferences. If it's here, it's well hidden.
Yes,AT has more people on-line at any given time with more content. Does that make it better? I don't know. That would be a matter of personal preference. That being said, I think it is extremely childish to make statements putting someone down for liking one board over another. I'm not ignorant. I'm not unemployed. And I expect to be treated as I would think others would want me to treat them regardless of whether I am AT or Bowsite or any other board I belong to.
As far as asking for help, isn't that what these kind of sites are for? And can't we be civil? Nothing ruins a good thread faster than a few trolls acting like children.
So as I climb down from my soapbox, I leave you all with this: Don't feed the trolls, that's what they want. Be nice to everyone as you would want them to be nice to you. And if you can't say something nice, shut the heck up.
OK. Edit. Just found where you can edit your profile.
All the email notification stuff is absurd. How much easier can it be than to loo at the right side of the page when it loads? I get enough email as is. God Bless
Was it his original registration you checked Pat or his current incognito?
I knew it would end this way!
Hate when that happens...
Speaking of PM's, I sent one to you Pat and you either have not seen it or haven't replied.
I agree, that if the OP cannot for whatever reason, use his real name, then something like this should have no validity. As mentioned, I won't say anything to someone online that I wouldn't say in person. I also would not hide behind a façade of secrecy. If I wanted to be anonymous, I would simply look and stay quiet.
Again, it is easy to see any PM's that you receive, it is right there on the main forums page, on the right, but I can also agree, that if you aren't actually looking for it, they can be easy to overlook. Since Pat is chiming in, why was the email notification ended?
I love it. Totally fabricated story. I ell people all the time... you CANNOT BS Bowsite. In the end the truth ALWAYS comes out. Did I ever tell you guys I killed 987 turkeys with a blow gun? Not those stupid northern ones either dang nabbit. :-)
Don K... maybe I should have said I higher percentage. I think they turn a few applicant down here and there.
This site and the experience of the Elk hunters on here are second to none!! I learned a lot of what I know from these guys answering numerous questions some of which they have answered many many times. AT may be ok no need for me too look there for ELk hunting advice.. Just my .02 worth Rob
Maybe I have some special enlightenment app, but on the right hand side of any forums page is a box that says, in red, "You have new private messages"
I always glance over there just in case a Bowsiter is sending me the coordinates to a honeyhole.
Agree email notification would be helpful for when someone who isn't a regular visitor anymore gets pinged, though.
I'm still waiting for your PM Jaq ;)
I think Pat just issued a cyber HDYLMK!
So is there a way to change you sign on PIN from the numbers are you given? My issue is not seeing the PM button while I am signed in but getting signed off while cleaning out the cookies and history and don't realize I am not signed back on. Usually takes longer to sign back in because I can not remember the sign on PIN.
Hahahahaha, now we hear the crickets....
Every single time I have asked for help on the BS, I get tons of responses and folks willing to help. Definitely not characteristic of the fine folks on here who willingly give phone numbers for a call. Great site!
I think archery talk is fine for technical bow aspects and tuning etc.
But as far as hunting goes bowsiter know more and are a bigger help. Lots of western bowhunters with good input. Majority of archery talk guys are eastern whitetail hunters
When I started reading this I thought "What the hell?"
I have never been denied asking for help. Actually its help overload with Bowsite which is a good thing!
I do not have a red box in the PM sections that flashes? I just have the font highlighted blue.
I will say this a few weeks ago the only way to see my PM I had to log onto the state/regional forums for my PM box to even show up. But I just assumed Pat or his Mods were doing some maintenance on the PM part?
What would be an awesome feature would be to have the ability to block individuals.
This would have done wonders with the TBM carnage that ensued for several years.
I have one Oompa Loompa who attacks every single thread I post. This would put a stop to him attacking me via my post or PM and he wouldn't be able to see my threads.
A block feature would be outstanding on Bowsite
Bowsite is definitely a better resource for pure hunting information. Bowsite and ArcheryTalk seem to be different generationaly.
I agree with Ermine. It's not apples to apples. There are helpful people on both sites. AT has some really good archery technical info. I don't see why people can't seem to appreciate both sites. I guess it's like the Dodge vs. Chevy thing.
I find a lot of people post on bowsite, as well as other hunting websites, asking others to do all their work for them. Often these people are very uniformed and have not even taken the time to learn a little basic information. If a poster is unwilling to invest their own time to learn more then why should I provide information that may have taken years of experience to accumulate. It's the instant gratification generation versus learn by experience generation.
Kelly, mine may be blue. Doesn't flash though. I've eaten so much cervid meat in my life that my vision has changed, and like elk and deer, I may see blue as "red"...
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Albert Einstein
Why in the world would someone not ask for help?!? One year repeated 20 times does not give you 20 years of experience. It never is a bad thing to ask if you want the help when you need it. I don't believe someone is a moocher when asking for first time help.
Most people never want to be zeroed in on a specific spot, just what to expect and some areas to begin looking - see the above quote.
I'm late to the party here but I'll chime in. I've only ever used the PM system here to talk to 4 individuals-Idyllwyld Archer, Jaquomo, BB, and Ghostbird. Every time I got an email notification that i had a PM waiting and a quick response from the other bowsiter. I don't think there is a problem!
" Every time I got an email notification that i had a PM waiting..."
There hasn't been email notification of a PM on here for quite some time.
I wish there was better enforcement of rules about people posting anonymously or with fake names.
You say you sent 10 pm's but did not disclose who you sent them to. How do we know they did not respond? List who you sent them pm's to and let them respond.
I find it very interesting that the original poster has not said a word after Pat called him out...
Note to self: Maybe a great time to bet the over and PM some guys about honey holes.....
It's amazing to me what a computer savvy guy can tell about his own system.
For those still replying to the original post, go back and read Pat's posts. . . really clarifies
Someone ran back and jumped in the kiddie pool with his tail between his legs. :-)
I suspect jsgold has child porn on his pc and Pat has reported him!
The things that people "think" they can hide. It didn't work out so well for Osama even when he didn't have internet in Pakistan. Connect yourself to a network, SOMEONE knows your activities.
Good.... it's settled then... he's got all the info needed....
Colorado....heheheheh....
Just a thought, since this is Pat's site and he designed it and knows it inside out, is it possible that he can also read our minds:)
Looks like we were all the victims of a drive by trolling.
It was obvious. Someone called troll very early on. How right they were.
That was good for a laugh! Thanks Pat!
Not a troll. Not busted. Not TBM.
And I'd like to take a moment to thank Mr. Lefemine for providing this great site. My original post was in no way intended to turn this into a "bash the Bowsite PM system" thread. I have paid Mr. Lefemine exactly ZERO DOLLARS for the hours and hours of entertainment and info I have received here, and the PM system works fine for me. So, thank you, sir.
My original intent was exactly what I posted in the beginning: Trying to get answers for why no love on the PM's at my beloved Bowsite after getting unbelievable amounts over on that other site. If my title was overly theatrical and got things off on the wrong foot, I sincerely apologize.
I had hoped to have intelligent discussion about my unexpected experience, and instead we were all treated to an unimaginable spewing of hate and snarky comments.
I changed my ID on this username just before starting this thread, because the results for my first 10 PMs were so unbelievable, I intended to send another 10 PM's to see if I could get a more positive result. After seeing the amount of ugliness that has surfaced on this thread, however, I'm not sure that is possible.
Mr. Lefemine has been PM'd my other username and identification, and I also gave him the content of the 10 PM's that I sent.
I have also given that info to those folks who were thoughtful enough to take the time to ask me via PM.
Thank you to them, and also to the people in the posts above who actually took the time to read and tried to contribute to an adult discussion.
Now, as I stated many many posts ago, let's just let this thing die. It's fruitless.....
And again...You hide behind a 'fake' handle!?! Why, what's the bid secret? IF you were really looking for help, it's not all that hard...
If it was attention, well you got it...
Good Gawd...!!!You could get 16a info from a street corner gal in DC.
But... it is interesting that 9 out of 10 bowsiters did not read their PMs. Presumably, they are fairly active members or he would not have picked them.
I know that I have had PMs in my box for weeks before I've seen them. Now that I'm doing more communicating with PM, I check them more often. It is easier to check them with the mobil site than the main site.
Well done Pat! Love Bowsite!
Thanks for the reply, Jody (via Mr. Lefemine)! Unfortunately, I never received that PM on my end....
Like Mad_Angler, I also find it interesting that 9 out of 10 didn't see or read their PMs.
But I also agree that it is time to end the madness. Sorry for the any inconvenience.
Well....
At least now I know the Bowsite NSA has the authority and ability to look up and read my PM's without a warrant..... =D
If it's not TBM maybe it's Snowden.....
secondly.... you know the silliness will never end.... heheheh....
End this silliness . . . . . . I was just going to insult his mother! I had a doozy about his mother wearing army boots.
When you guys pile on . . . . you pile on. You can tell it's a slow time of year.
Just checked old e-mail because I didn't trust my memory...I used to get e-mail notifications of Bowsite PMs as recently as December of 2013. Then they stopped.
I can say I was spoiled by the PM notifications, and I'm not diligent enough about checking for PMs on the actual site these days. I've let PMs sit for a week or more.
So, I can understand how "regulars" could allow this to happen.
The one response he did get seems like a winner to me!
Best Wishes, Jeff (and not the "Jeff" with the fake handle)
Nothing against sending PM's to get some info but my question is this, why not just start a thread on the elk or deer section? In the original post it doesn't say what he going to be hunting. Why not ask the whole Bowsite membership? There is a ton of good info out there from a lot of great hunters.
Mr. Lefemine, I checked at home on my home registration at lunch and didn't have it, but maybe it's there now. When I check tonight, I'll let you know if I still haven't received it....
Boothill--In the past, I've found with this type of thing that after finding all that maps, google earth, old posts, and everything else short of boots on the ground have to offer, people seem much more willing to give additional help to an individual via PM's rather than posting it on the open forum for all to see for years.
jsgold, if you are looking for an adventure read junior's post above..
"Good Gawd...!!!You could get 16a info from a street corner gal in DC."
That may be worth checking out depending on where you live and what you find interesting.
boy, talk about piling on a guy! I have to wonder if some of the guys that basically called this jsgold a liar feel proud. Pretty damned uppity around here aren't we.....................
likely the site PM system is not working to perfection at this point,,,,,,,,,, but boy did this show some true colors.........
I just came out of the Gila wilderness to take a shower and make sure I wasn't missing anything on Bowsite, but first, I checked my PMs.
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