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I did my first DIY elk hunt in CO in 2012. Would love, love, love to go again but have since developed pain in my right knew due to cartilage loss. I started have some pain getting ready for the 2012 trip, hiking with a weighted pack and a knee brace. Wore the knee brace during the 2 weeks hunting & hiking. Now, the pain is more of an everyday occurrence. I have gained 20# body weight since that last trip. Looking for other experiences. If I drop weight and build muscle will that still be enough to relieve the loss of cartilage? Yes, I had x-rays done and you can see the loss. Any other advice? Thanks
Go see an Ortho.
Have you had Synvisc injections?
See some top Doctors about the problem and don't ask medical questions like that on the internet since each individual is just that! Are you saying you're 20# or even more overweight that you should be? If that the case, I think you already know what the answer on weight is.
An elk hunter w/ no cartilage in the knees means you need some strong backs in your camp, a close waterhole, and a blind... and an appointment for the ortho to discuss a knee replacement.
Losing 20lbs w/ a bad knee isn't easy unless you adopt an etheopian diet.
Have severe cartilage loss as well. Had my right knee scoped last year in June before Colorado elk hunt last year....helped some but still had a lot of stiffness and took a little while to regain range of motion.Had cortisone shots in both knees prior to leaving for Colorado....some help but Doctor says only thing that will help me is knee replacement.Also tried the Hyloran shots in the spring but did not notice any improvement. This year decided to loose some weight and exercise a lot before a trip to Montana this September...lost 15 lbs. so far, now at 220 and I think that, along with exercise has really helped.... not 100%, but tolerable. So, yes, drop weight and build that knee up and you might be able to get by a few more years...that's my plan...and I'm 66 yrs old.
I realize everyone is different. Just seeing what others experiences are. The more information a person has, the better. I am 20# heavier then I was in 2012 when I was probably in the best shape for quite a few years. I'm an avid bike rider. Due to some life changes (lost wife in accident month after CO hunt) I have not been riding as much. My thinking has been to drop the weight and build the muscle but will that resolve pain. My guess it is a combination of that and medical intervention. Had cortisone shot a few months ago. Very temporary relief.
What Ohiohunt said.... yeah, it's not easy when you can't exercise like a person is used to.
Synvisc X 2
In 2007, I would walk with a limp on blacktop. Walking on concrete really hurt. Walking downhill on a sidewalk was the worst.
Went to my orthopedic doctor friend. He put a needle in my knee and drained fluid. Removed the vial from the syringe without removing the needle from my knee. Inserted the Synvisc vial into the syringe and injected it into my knee.
Came back for second appt one week later. Same routine. He put a needle in the knee, and removed a mixture of Synvisc and synovial fluid....then injected a new vial of Synvisc.
Came back for the third and final appt one week later. Same routine, except that the third vial of Synvisc has been in there for 8 years. The very next year (2008), I went on four sheep bowhunts and a Mountain Goat hunt (as well as a few other hunts)......I haven't had significant pain in my knee since. (My shoulder and hip are a different story).
I used to co-own a pharmacy. Synvisc is not cheap....but it was worth every penny to me....and if you have an Rx plan, even better.
Weight loss for knees can't hurt. If all else fails get a tube of GE silicone. I always joked about doing that or putting in a grease fitting.
Wish they had those injections years ago.
I have been elk hunting for 25+ years now and I'm 61. I've had torn cartilage removed from my left knee twice and my right once. I had several injections. All of these things gave me temporary relief. In 2012 after I came back from elk hunting I could not walk with out pain, I'd had enough. I had both knees replaced two months later. In the fall of 2013 I went to Newfoundland moose hunting and in 2014 I was chasing elk again in Colorado. I did both hunts with almost no pain. For me replacement was the way to go but every one is different. What worked for me might not be the right thing for you, so I'd start by finding the very best orthopedic surgeon you can and see what he says. Good luck
ryanrc's Link
I fought thru knee pain for 22 years, and finally had replacement last january. However, for me the connective tissues were totally trashed, so I'm in no way "good as new".
But...it's WAAAAAY better!!! Downhill is still tough, and my doc said a year for total healing.
Got my best test to date last weekend at the Horicon traditional shoot; 2nd half was verticle real estate, and I handled it...pretty good...lol.
Synvisc X 3. Talk to a good Orthopedic doctor and see what your options are. From what I understand, the injections are "da bomb. Also, your doc can set up some physical therapy appointments which will help tremendously.
I too have had some troubles with the knees. Some of it was dumb stuff that was my fault. Some of it was due to sports. No cartilage in the left knee and two ACL repairs in the left knee. In the right, still minimal cartilage and one ACL repair in the last 11 years. And as far as pain, I'm relatively pain free unless I have to crawl around on my knees. I credit that to a gallon of milk a day and strong surrounding muscles from weight lifting, physical therapy, and cruising timber almost everyday.
Increasing muscle fitness in the hamstring and thigh will help. A good physical therapists is priceless and will teach you how to safely do it in your condition.
Don't wait. The weaker your legs get, the harder this will be. And, if you hurt right now, your legs ARE going to get weaker. You can do this. God Bless and Good Luck.
Some pretty good advice WV. I was an athlete all my life...up to age 46; caught on a tournament fast pitch softball team to 40, played hockey to 46...mainly in goal...coached hockey and baseball to my mid 50's.
Needless to say...I trashed my knees in the process. Turning 63 soon and am still welding for a living. On my feet for 9 to 12 hour days...it all takes a toll.
I still do what I can, but my mountain hunting days are pretty much over. So....I'm sticking with my whitetails.
Get strong 'n stay strong!!!
I'm fortunate to have done 30+ Elk bowhunts cause my knees are trashed now. Pain daily. 8 years Military, sports as a kid & 32 hard years in a Steel Mlll did it for me. I've been told by VA 3 years now I need total knee (both) but keep holding off. I'm nearing 74 & half the people I know said don't do it & other half says do it. I talked to Drs. & they admit, no guarantee.
I suffered from having virtually no cartilage in either knee for over 30 years and finally had double knee replacement 5 years ago. I work on a ski hill, guide fishing and hunting, and between the three I put in well over 200 days a year of hard time on my feet. The replacements have been pretty miraculous for me. People see what I'm doing and ask me all the time if I'm "pain free" I usually answer that no, they didn't make me 15 years old again, but am I vastly improved. Absolutely! I would certainly consider replacement. I am able to do all the things I love with much less pain. I'm much better off than I was 5 years ago.
TPlank, I also have cartilage loss (arthritis) in my knees. Bicycling has helped mine tremendously! So much of the stress has been taken off of the knee joint, that mostly I just feel muscles flexing around my knees as I go down stairs, hills etc.
Have been dealing with knee pain for over a year. Been living a "duck tape" for the last 3 months praying I could keep things together to make my African hunt.
After my return from Africa I had an appointment with top notch orthopedic surgeon. MRI clearly showed all of the torn cartilage. My options were cortisone shoots to relieve pain or surgery to correct problem. I opted for surgery rather than continually have flare up with pain and further damage.
I had a PMM yersterday. Virtually no pain post surgery. Now own crutches, but looking for better days ahead.
I would suggest you see a good ortho surgeon, have testing to determine problem. Then take corrective action, whatever that might be.
Red Socks! Fall Hazard!
Do like I did. Had them replaced and replaced and replaced some more.
I have similiar problems, with major cariladge loss in rt knee, bone on bone, I mountain bike frequently and try to hit eliptical at gym 30 minutes a day, build up strength in muscles surrounding knee, also had a cortisone shot awhile ago which really help even though it is viewed as a band aid solution, taking weight off will take pressure off, I also will occasional wear a neoprene support to keep area warm and supported .
a good scope and grinding of the burrs helped me, one knee tib fracture in 1986, its pretty much bolted together but a lot less pain after the doc removed the trash around the joint, got it done mid summer to allow for healing time. even that requires a little crutch time to mend. Lortab at the end of a hunt allows me sleep.
In mid-June the Dr. thought I had torn cartilage, gave me a shot and scheduled a MRI. A few days later my knee "bent backward" and made a loud POP! I almost fell. After that sudden, severe pain started to ease it kept feeling better. I cancelled the MRI and about a week and a half ago I awoke pain free. I can't squat, and have difficulty checking tire pressure, but it sure beats surgery. I feel better than I have since New Years. Just lucky, I guess.
-Joe
Good luck Greg. That looks like it might hurt the golf game! I "re-tore" my miniscus July 1 and of course, I leave for a sheep hunt Sunday. Really raised heck with training. Cortisone shot Tuesday, leave Sunday...
Cory
Good luck with that cortisone shot. Hopefully, it will keep your knee together till after your hunt. Best of luck on a successful hunt.
Damn, I thought I had some knee problems till I got to reading the stuff you guys wrote.
Loose weight and lift on the legs. Building muscle pulls the joint apart which reduces the bone on bone pain. They have been telling me I need a replacement but I just keep pumping iron on my legs and doing low impact cardio. I also started taking Condrodin and Glucosime (spelling) four years ago, they are the wonder drug for joints. I too am a 48 year old football player, you have to maintain your workouts through the whole year to stay fit. Hope this helps.
There is no way to re-grow cartilage, however a lot of the times a total knee can be delayed a few years if your ortho sends you to a decent PT. I consistently treat patient's(I'm a DPT) who have been on the fence about whether to get their knee replaced or not; and more times than not if they're at this stage conservative treatment will do just fine (aka PT!!); or at least for a few years until it gets to the "breaking point". More often times than not, the patient knows when its time for a replacement before anyone else.
You'll get a thousand different opinions on here from different guys that have done this or that and it worked for them. Or you can go see a quality physical therapist and they will be able to set you up with a great plan and strategy to get you off of your couch and back on the mountain while managing your pain.
As others have said, losing weight is key as well, when you walk it isn't just your body weight pounding down on your knee, some studies have shown 3-5X your body weight is the force driving down through the joint when walking. Hence, you lose 10 pounds, that's anywhere from 30 to 50 pounds worth of pressure your knees no longer have to support.
If you're interested in a simple basic strength training program I generally give out to knee OA patients feel free to PM me and I can send you a link through hep2go; which is the HEP program I generally e-mail/give to my patients. Any other questions feel free to ask.
Have to agree with above poster, artificial synovial fluid worked wonders on my knees. The stuff I had injected was made in part from chicken eggs. The name escapes me now. Talk to your orthopedic surgeon about it. Shawn
I am a firm believer in PT and a brief period of strong anti-inflammatory drugs taken with food, for just about any joint ailment... Knees, lower back, shoulder and now elbow for me.... No surgery, no injections... It's therapy, rest, anti-inflams, and mind over matter... Good luck
Just had a knee replacement on March 24. I'll be ready to go after elk by the end of August. I'll be pretty slow. But that's nothing new for me. LOL!
WW three years ago I had my second knee replacement and by September I was putting on 10-11 miles a day. I was 62 then. PT and you will be better than you were with no pain.