Colorado muzzleloader season
Elk
What kind of impact does the MZ season have on the bow hunters? If I'm planning on an OTC hunt what dates would you invest in?
MZ has little to no impact on archery hunting. MZ tags are getting harder to draw. My father hunts with a muzzle stuffer and he has 4 points now. I always hunt the entire week and very seldom ever see any orange away from the road.
Half the muzzleloaders I see don't wear orange at least once they are away from the road. It can definitely have an impact if a group of muzzleloaders are in your area.
The ones I have seen were always in camo. When I was in the Gunnison area years back you would hear a smoke pole go off once in awhile in the distance. Picked up a guy in a down pour after dark in pagosa and gave him a ride and he had full camo too. I don't think they have much impact on the bow hunting. More than once I wish I had my smoke pole when they hang up out there a ways.
It puts more people in the woods, so it puts more pressure on the elk. Someone on here smarter than me recently said something like, "I scout where all the people will be, then I know where to hunt." If you do that, muzzy season is no trouble, and has actually turned into something I find helpful to my archery success. So I'd invest in it.
The local ones are always in orange, and they really like to bugle. Many of them have ATVs on which they carry both a bow and a smokepole.
The only muzzy guy I've ever talked to was done hunting early (7am), and his truck reeked like weed. I didn't really consider him a threat to the elk...and as a matter of fact I saw a nice bull roughly 1/2 mile off the road where the guy had been parked.
ML tags are getting harder to draw but there are generally the same number of tags so there are just as many ML hunters.
Most that I have seen do not get that far from the trailheads or pack trails but I'm sure there are exceptions. I've also seen them in full camo. It's always seemed kind of dumb to me that the guy with the gun has to wear orange... Not that I want to, but shouldn't it be the rest of us without the guns who wear orange...?
I always wear a lightweight cotton orange vest when bowhunting Colorado's ML season.
I don't need some yayhoo taking a shot at me when I'm calling.
I agree with Mike, it's rare to see them more than a mile from a trailhead.
What they help do in my area, is push elk into areas more removed from the roads and trails...and that's where I'm gonna be.
I do seem to notice less bugling after the Muzzy Opener...but bulls will still bugle in the dark.
So I guess...wake up earlier, walk farther.
I usually arrive around the Muzzy opener.
Best of Luck, Jeff
How can they not have an impact? It's a gun in an Archery season. Why do they go quiet the 2ND or third day after it opens?Whether they have an impact on you depends on where you're hunting and if they draw. Where I hunt, I stay out of the woods these days, I don't want anything to do with them.
I see someone mentioned above at "times they wish they had one". Take a camp of elk hunters that show up every year OTC archery but don't tag out due to that last 30-50 yds. Those same guys that pack in deep, hunt hard with bows now in there with ML will put a dent in them.
Also a safety factor I'm not crazy about it after my run in with two PA guys two years ago. Bulging herd of elk, I thought I was the only guy on them wearing my "elk brown top". I came across a blood trail, and then into a guy with a scoped ML trying to get another bullet into the elk they were Bloodtrailing. Brown shirt, flashing ahead, on the bloodtrail, not good.
Don't think for a minute ML or Rifle guys don't pack in or somehow lazy. You could say the same about archers. To clarify Im talking public land, OTC. Not OTC units but hunting on private lands or public land with no public access. There is a big difference. Keep that in the back of your head when you're getting info.
The last time I bow hunted during ML season, there were 4 times more mule deer rifle hunters than Elk ML's
When I reviewed the tag allocations this spring, I noticed that many units had the ML cow only tags reduced and that amount was switched to ML E/S tags.
That will definitely put more pressure on the elk.
Their impact varies by area and year. One year a group was driving big chunks of the mountain every day. I ran into one of the standers and he was a nice guy but knew what they were doing wasn't helping my odds at all. I moved a few miles.
Other times they are barely noticeable. It is a great week to be in the woods for rut timing but until you have boots on the ground you really can't know what impact they will have that week. Over the years I've had them screw up set-ups, shoot a bull out from under me, over-pressure areas, ect. I've also had them offer to pack out meat on their horses, purposely stay out of areas they knew we were hunting, offer a cold beverage and warm meal. Their extended range results in tactics somewhere between rifle and archery sometimes, but they are generally good guys like most hunters.
In a perfect world they would have their own week, but its been made very clear that isn't happening without archery losing something. For now its better to live with a hangnail than cut the finger off to cure it.
I'll be toting one this fall myself on a hunt with some family.
It's generally the best week to be out there.
I think Glunt has it - depends on the unit, the area, and the year.
Yeah, when you do have your first scary encounter with one it gets your attention. Most of the time you don't see them very far from the road or ATV trail, some of them though haven't heard their stereotype and really get out and get after it. We wear orange on our packs so if they are in front of us we see them and if they are behind us they see us. I've never encountered one without blaze orange before myself doesn't mean they weren't there, i just didn't see them! After my encounter last year i will be hanging some blaze orange around my decoy
I had an unnerving experience a few years ago in Colorado. It was mid morning and time for a little snack. I came to a elky looking area, got situated and gave a little bugle. I got an answer almost immediately from the area that looked good. After a little elk talk exchange I became suspicious and began glassing the area very hard and I saw a bowhunter about 100 yards away.
I stood and waived at them and they waived back so I went to have a quick visit. It was a woman and she said her husband was 50 yards down the mountain and he was hunting with a muzzleloader. I told her I would slip away downwind so as not to mess up their setup. As I slipped downwind of where her husband was setup I saw a muzzleloader resting across a log pointed at me. He was wearing no orange.
I assumed he knew I was there while I was visiting with his wife. Obviously, that was not the case. I guess he heard me moving and assumed an elk was coming to his call. To say the least it was an experience that I do not want to repeat.
I think the only people in danger is Lou if he wears his "special" hat or if you are sitting behind a portable decoy. If you are in an area with MZ hunters and feel uncomfortable, I would suggest a camo type of orange. It is not legal for gun hunters in CO, but since you don't have to wear any, it is OK. You can still be seen but don't have to go with the solid orange.
Also, if you see MZ hunters without orange, you can always call the Division and let them know what area that is happening in. Personally, it doesn't really bother me. If they are comfortable hunting in full camo knowing other MZ hunters are in the field, then I'm not bothered either. I don't know of any MZ hunter who will "sound shoot" because they know they only have one shot and need to make it count. But that is just me...
Last year on my OTC bowhunt during muzzleloader week, I wore a blaze camo vest and headband.
How was your experience txhunter?
About 5 years ago i was set up on a park that I had seen a group of elk at the night before! I hadnt made any calls and was just waiting for them to come out. I started hearing some cows talking before I seen anything. I made a couple cow calls just to let them know I was there. 15 min later here come the cows followed by a small 5x5. A few more cows came out and then a nice 6x6 comes out behind them. At this point I have cows within 30 yards with a perfect wind. The 5x5 is on the other side of them at around 60 yards with the 6x6 heading right at me. Everything is perfect! The 6x6 stops to sniff a cow at about 80 yards when a shot rings out and everything takes off! I didnt know there was a ML hunter up on top of a ridge just up and to the right of where I was at! He killed the 6x6! My buddy who was up on another ridge watched the whole thing! The ML hunter had only been there about 5 min when the elk came out! The next morning i was back to see if any would be heading back to their bedding area! I heard a few cows and a few min later heard a shot just below me! I headed down to see what happened and sure enough there was another ML hunter who killed the 5x5! That year sucked!
Two years ago I had my best week of elk hunting the week of muzzleloader. I also only seen 1 guy and that was on the pack out. He was a couple miles from where we were hunting.
We only heard 2 shots the whole week. One was my buddy! I went off down in a deep steep canyon and didn't see anything while he stayed up on top maybe 300 yards form the truck. So of course he had a herd come right by him and stop in the meadow where he was standing!
usually none back in road less areas. don't underestimate them though. had a couple guys one year that had an old reed type bugle, the kind you could only make one sound on. These guys were in shape, didn't matter were I was if they heard a bugle they would be there eventually calling as they went.
Depends on the unit, we ran into several last year and one was kind of scary, but he was a safe hunter and nothing happened, was just kind of scary, he came in behind us and setup not far from where we setup and had our decoys out and was calling etc.. I wear a big blaze orange handkerchief on the back of my pack during muzzle loader season.
I appreciate the experiences, though some are a little mixed they are encouraging. Thank you.
Hope no one minds if I add this question to this topic. Last year we hunted Colorado during muzzleloader season and didn't wear any orange. Read the regs for Colorado and wasn't sure if bowhunters are required to wear orange during ML season? Anyone know the answer? We didn't see any ML guys but I could see how people might want to have something orange on their pack or clothing.
regardless of the safety of wearing orange, the law says a muzzle loading hunter has to wear it!
if you are going to break one law, why not another? like hunt the wrong unit? or start a day early? or hell, just use a rifle?
in almost 30 years of hunting archery season in colorado, i can count the number of muzzle loading hunters that i saw wearing orange on one hand. but, i have run into plenty.
and yes, they have an effect. they are more stinky, noisy, things in the woods to chase off the elk.
Honestly?? I know a number of guys get hunt black powder, and we see a lot of black powder guys in the woods each year, and none act like the way some guys on here say they act. We've had more bowhunters come in on us and screw up things more then any black powder guy ever did.
There is a huge difference in the way a black powder sounds compared to a rifle. And the same could be said of bowhunters about breaking laws. Last year, the local F&G guys more tickets to bowhunters then the black powder guys or the rifle hunters!! I honestly don't know why guys feel they way they do about black powder hunters, cause they have every right to be in the woods as we do.
No, bowhunters do not have to wear any orange even during muzzleloading season. Only the muzzy guys have to wear the orange. Makes sense right?? They have the guns, but we can be fully camo.
That said, I just feel safer wearing blaze orange camo when I am bowhunting out in the woods with guys with guns. They have to wear solid blaze, but bowhunters can wear blaze camo. IMO deer and elk don't know the difference between regular camo and blaze camo
At times, I wear a blaze camo vest but many times just a blaze camo hat
Thanks for the clarification guys. I'll take some orange with me this year just for the safety aspect.
Buglmin, I have no issues with ML hunters! The year I described, i was on public land so they had every right to be there. It sucked that I had 2 elk shot within a 150 yards of me but I congratulated each one of them! Neither had no idea i was there and apologized even though it was not needed. If im not bow hunting I will hunt with a ML.
Last year on opening day of ML I was hiking up a long steep ridge at first light. I crested the top and heard a cow moose moan behind me. A ML Hunter was walking away, back down the ridge. He moaned to let me know he was there, then apparently ceded the ridge to me because I was ahead of him. It was a big enough plateau that we both could have hunted it if we coordinated.
I whistled several times because I wanted to invite him to hunt up there, maybe call for him, but he kept on going. I wonder if he'd had some bad experiences with bowhunters and decided to just get the heck out.
On public land, I've had many more unpleasant experiences with inconsiderate bowhunters than with MLs. This includes two ML-hunting game wardens who lied to me, then jumped in around me on the elk I was hunting (that they promised theyd stay away from...) Their cigarette smoke scared the herd. They tried to tell me they weren't sure where they were.. Yeah, right.
I have not seen ML hunters dressed in camo. If I were to see that situation, I will try to get a picture of them and do my best to find a warden so that he can ticket them. We all have to join in to correct the bad ones that we find in the field.
The wardens are our friends and I'm sure that they would appreciate all the help that we can give them in cleaning up the hunting population. If you don't believe this then, you are part of the problem.
Over the years I have heard maybe 3-4 shots and have never run into a ML hunter where we go. Couple years ago we packed out on opening day of ML and there was not a single vehicle at any of the 3 trailheads we drive past.
I am sure it depends on where you are hunting.
It seems that there is the perception that if your in Colorado bowhunting elk or deer dressed in full camo during the muzzleloading season that you might get shot by a muzzleloader. Can anyone actually give factual statistics that this has ever occurred? I've looked on the CPW website and can't find any information or stats on this.
We've had bowhunters try to get between us and the bull we were working. One year in 15 in NM, I went to Mick's house and told him that he needed to pay me cause all I was doing was guiding his guide. Mick told the guide to stay out of the area.
Every year, there are posts on here about guys worried about the black powder hunters cause of all they've heard about. Guys always have stories about the black powder hunters, but yet, for some reason, they forget to leave out the stories about the slob non resident bowhunters that leave campsites full of trash, kill bulls in units that they don't have tags for and only take a few chunks of meat and the horns cause they're so far in there to be able to pack anything out. Black powder hunters are very limited to the tags they draw per unit, so they ain't hundreds of them in the woods, and most draw mature bull only tags. Most of these guys are very hard hunters that take their hunting serious, so let's stop the "bad black powder stories" and show them some respect. And yes sirs, seems every year there are more bowhunters shot by other bowhunters then bowhunters shot by black powder hunters...
Safety is safety regardless. Same reason osha requires hard hats even when standing in the middle of an empty field. No need to sidetrack the thread anymore than it already has.
Depending on the unit there are hundreds of mz hunters.
Buglmin " for some reason, they forget to leave out the stories about the slob non resident bowhunters that leave campsites full of trash, kill bulls in units that they don't have tags for and only take a few chunks of meat and the horns cause they're so far in there to be able to pack anything out."
Just as not every muzzy hunter is a slob based on the weapon he chooses, not every non resident is a slob based on the state in which he resides.
For me the first weekend of muzzleloader isn't too bad, just a lot more people in the woods. After the first weekend it seems like the elk are not as vocal and are a lot more skittish/nervous. I really wish CPW would make muzzleloader it's own season, maybe the week between archery and first rifle or I'd even be up for cutting archery to 3 weeks and giving the last week to muzzleloaders. Hoping to punch our tags in the first couple weeks this year so we won't have to deal with the "orange army".
trkytrk: You wanted to know the track record of ML/archery. There has been only ONE incident involving both, and everyone involved was breaking the law. Seems that two camps had seen some elk and decided that they would perform a drive to get someone a shot. Problem is, not one of them had an elk tag. It was late, late in the afternoon and the ML guy set up in a draw so the rest could push the elk to him. Some elk came through an opening but he couldn't get a shot. He saw the bushes move as another "elk" was coming through the opening. It was nearly dark when the "elk" came through a small opening and the ML guy shot him through the chest. That was the ONLY negative interaction between both involving someone getting shot. Since they were all breaking the law, no license, hunting after hours, and not making sure of their target, one could hardly blame the lack of orange for the incident. Now archers, on the other hand, haven't been so lucky. There has been at least on fatal archer/archer shooting and some injuries from archer/archer, so you be the judge on how safe it is.
So far as negative interactions.......I have had as many with archers as with ML guys. Of course for those ML guys who choose not to wear orange, beware....I carry a camera and am not afraid to use it. The last two ML guys that I encountered in camo got tickets. One phone call with a description of the vehicle at the trail head and a video clearly showing their faces did the trick. You can call me a "bitch" for doing that, but.....
Also, my BEST hunting has come on the Tuesday of ML season with at least half of the elk I have killed on that day, around 0900. In fact, one day, my partner and I each killed a bull, 20 minutes and 5 yards apart on that day. The biggest CO bull that I have taken was on a Tuesday, ML season, less than 400 yards from a ML camp.
