Lower back/Sciatic nerve pain
Elk
Since bowsite is a one-stop shop, I'm hoping for some help here...
I threw my back out a few years ago. It took some PT and it got better.
Then, I started training for elk hunting. I probably pushed it too hard. It started nagging every once in while. I could use my old PT exercises to get through that.
Well, I pushed it too hard and it really popped about a month ago. I've been on strong pain killer, muscle relaxers and PT. It's still not great but it's getting better.
Now for the questions...
How to train for elk hunting now? Luckily, I can walk and hike without pain. I can also use elipticals without pain. Actually, they make me feel better. I don't know how much weight I can put in my pack when training.
Any other advice? I assume that lots of folks have been through this. Anything that really helped? Anything that really hurt?
Also, any advice for the actual HUNTING? Things I should do? Things I should avoid?
There are pilates classes specifically for folks with back pain that can help. Other than that, I guess you should shoot your elk and have someone's kid pack it out for you. That would help. I have a 12 yr old grandson, but he's kind of skinny. Probably needs another year.
Had same problem,went to lazer spine institute in new York,they use lazer surgery to deaden nerve,i am 60 years old and my back was getting worse,couldnt even climb into tree,same day office procedure.Id say I have 90 percent mobility now.
First thing I would do is find a reputable chiropractor. He should be able to help you in short order. Don't laugh, and some here will undoubtedly say its voodoo but acupuncture is another excellent option.
I had struggled with lower back pain of varying degrees for about twenty years. I was literally crippled by it about ten years ago to the point where all I could do was crawl and even that was excruciating. My wife is a huge believer in acupuncture and while I was extremely skeptical, I gave it a try and was back on my feet in a day and 90% within a week. I've focused on core strengthening since then and knock on wood, haven't had any issues since. The back country is no place to be with a bad back.
This close to the season, I'd say lay off the training. I think it'd be better to be able to go elk hunting and in slightly less shape than laying at home on the couch cause you pushed it too hard.
I hurt my back last year on July 4th and was due to fly out for a Diy sheep hunt in Ak on August 7th. I went to a chiropractor and got worse. Went to PT and got better fast. Ended up hiking in 14 miles and killing 2 sheep with my brothers with zero problems.
Take it easy and do what you know works for you. I wouldn't experiment with things this close to the the season.
Start with a lightweight backpack on the elliptical...then slowly increase the weight as you feel stronger and your muscles get back to where they belong.
Train for what you are going to do!
Training the core is key...once you get the back ironed out, work on the opposing muscles (gut).
I struggled with sciatica for years...and when I started doing the stuff I described above ALL YEAR LONG...it went away! Currently, I run 30 minutes of treadmill on a 10 percent grade, with a 30 pound pack on...every weekday. Plus upper body and abs workouts.
Daily stretching is super important with this as well.
All this may not work for you, but it was the solution for me.
Best of Luck, Jeff
I have spondylolisthesis, meaning that a vertebrae is out of alignment with the rest of my spine. In my case it's the L5 that moved about 30% out of alignment, with the discs above and below almost dead, and the facet joints broken (Par's defect). Because of the constant inflammation of the nerve, the foramen in the bone started to narrow, compounding the problem. I had the nerve issues, arthritis, sciatica, and muscle spasms that were all causing different pain... Sometimes all at once, sometimes one at a time, but always some kind of pain.
I saw one physical therapist that thought tugging and yanking things back into alignment then electrotherapy was the way to go but it only helped for a few hours. I went from 190lb to over 240lb because it hurt to move, and in my case I could lay down or sit relatively comfortably, but couldn't even stand for 30 seconds before the spasms started. At least partially due to the chronic pain, I became depressed, anxious, and constantly aggravated, and it affected my relationships at home and at work. A friend gave me an inversion device that would give me some temporary relief, but I still eventually got to the point I felt like I was abusing narcotic painkillers and muscle relaxers. The spine specialist told me that it was a matter of when, not if, I would require a fusion of my L4, L5, and S1 vertebrae.
Then I saw a second PT who taught me a combination of stretching and core exercises, along with applying a different type of electric stimulus she said would help loosen the hardened connective tissue and that helped a lot. She told me that sitting on a yoga ball and bouncing up and down on a frequent basis would work the discs and help regenerate the disc tissue. I got off the meds and also had a cortisone epidural that helped, but I was still in frequent pain (to a lesser degree) and had little hope of ever overcoming it completely.
Then, in an ironic twist (no pun intended), I killed a bull by myself in 2013 and in the process of wrestling that thing around managed to do something that hurt like a mother and at the time I thought I really destroyed something. The pain was so intense that I can't remember anything for about 6 hours of that day, I literally had amnesia. I haven't had another MRI to prove it, but since then I've had very little trouble. I think what happened is that the vertebrae moved back into alignment and the nerve probably went back into place as well. Now I will rarely have some minor sciatica or some annoying and infrequent muscle spasms, I can walk all day most days without pain, and I've carried as much two elk quarters on my back for short distances on a couple of occasions. I've lost close to 40lb and it's still coming off. I'm very careful not to twist my lower back, especially with a load or when getting up or bending over for any reason. I stop and stretch frequently, and I'll do planks and other core strengthening even in the woods.
I don't know what your injury is, but I would recommend that you try more than one PT, keep exercising (within limits) with an emphasis on core strength, be open to things like electro-stimulus, yoga, pilates, and acupuncture. Ask for help rather than make it worse, and try to maintain your quality of life the best you can, as it sounds like you're doing.
Listen to your PT. Accept you wont be in as good of shape as you had hoped. And, enjoy your hunt. There are no magic cures.
Someone read my mind. I was going to start a thread like this but figured no one else would be suffering from back pain and still elk hunting hard. I used to truck out west alone but with my back issues, trip has been on hold. I am taking in every word here so keep it coming.
my wife is going through same thing. she grabbed the dog and he twisted her the wrong way . mri docs say there's no problem , just the nerve inflamed but chiro and acupuncture say otherwise. been a little under 3 months. she got a shot in her back but no relief. I've thrown my back out 3 or 4 times and I've found the chiropractor and core training really help.
Check your feet, go to a pediatrist or just get some insoles and work on it yourself. Over time poor alignment from your shoes will cause your IT band will get tight and twist your hips.
Yoga, workout through full ranges of motion, increase your posterior chain strength and STRETCH.
I suffered as a teen from intense pain in my lower back/ sciatica, playing soccer and skiing everyday very quad dominate. Really worked on my posterior chain and got it under control.
Now carrying a heavy pack i still get it a little bit. When in stop I do some hamstring work, full squats no weight, and some core and it gets it under control.
It will be an ongoing endeavor. GL
I have had a chiropractor help "pull my ox out of the ditch" several times before hunts due to back/neck issues. A reputable chiropractor can be your friend.
If the pain persist, then I would seek a competent back/neuro spine dr. If it is a disc problem a MRI can be a helpful tool, but for me the best test for locating that type of a problem is a myelogram. When the dye stops flowing, the problem area has been identified. It just like putting a leaking tire under the water, follow the bubbles and the problem area has been identified.
This is my $.02 on BowsiteMD on this health related matter !!
I would definitely try PT, chiro or whatever possible to avoid surgery. I've had the bad fortune of being in two severe car wrecks, one in 1980 and another in 1995. Since then, I've been through chiros, PT, massage, acupuncture, etc...
Nothing seemed to help and I actually waited too long for surgery and caused permanent damage to my legs and feet. I've had 3 back fusions, two neck fusions and finally a spinal cord stimulator put in last year. That has worked very well for my leg pain, but not my back.
The best exercise for me is hiking. It's the only thing that makes me feel better and makes day to day living tolerable. I'd recommend doing as much walking as possible and don't overdo it on carrying weight.
Good luck tagging your first elk! Ron
My situation is similar to Jeff- rest then specific core exercises from my PT is a long term solution for many vs chiroquackers.
I can tell you this, if you have a bulging disc and it ruptures, your done. "I mean right there done, your not walking any farther, I promise you"! I had a bulging disc for at least 6 months. Went to bed one night and the dam thing ruptured in my sleep! Man did it hurt! All I good do was lay in the floor and cry, couldn't move unless I army crawled.
I use to think I was tough, but now I know nerve pain! Turned me into a kitten.
Lose weight and see a PT!
Don't do anything we advise without thinking it through. I learned the hard way. Your Doctor, Chiropractor, and Physical therapist need a good picture of your condition before working on you. GET ANSWERS.
I have lived with it for years now but I have noticed I know what to do and what not to do like bend at the knees when lifting or movement up and down--
I walk, lite lift weights, stretch and have added swimming laps to my weekly routine....
So far so good---
Hang in there man,
Good luck, Robb
As a doctor, I'm a damn fine welder :^) But...I do know back pain is the worst...can be totally deliberating.
The swimming suggestion was good...low impact workouts are always good, especially so as we age.
For my last elk hunt, I worked out like a madman for months prior. My doc told me to stop completely a couple weeks before and just rest...that was more important than any fitness gains for those 2 weeks.
Yeah...see the pros.and, I agree that some "eastern" methods shouldn't be overlooked.
I will throw this inn too. Don't put yourself in a situation where you have to balance yourself constantly. When you have to, widen your stance, don't make your back play catch up. Make sure the pack is weighted evenly, and that its a good pack (fits)with lumbar support. Make sure your boots have good ankle support. Bad boots will put more strain on your back. Sleep on your back/side, with a pad at-least(if your camping). Avoid sleeping on your stomach. Stretch before you start every day. Hydration is very important as well, with any muscular injury. This is not just a prior hunt deal, its the rest of your life. Don't be stubborn as I was, and have to have a discectomy. It sucks! Although I don't have the sciatic leg and foot pain now, my left foot stays numb 24/7 and I still have back pain if I over do it.
Discectomy..Spell check got me
Same boat. Dont bend over for one, you need to do core strengthening exercises as that will help your back become more stable. I had to ditch a frame back and go with a fanny back to use gear. Every ounce of weight you put on your back will compress discs and that could rupture one and you will be dead if your by yourself as you will not be able to walk out of elk country. Some other useful things, get a game cart, dont hunt far off logging roads so if you do score you can get your game cart to it or use a sled to get it to your game cart. Use a trecking pole while hunting that will take a lot of weight off your back and help stabylize you. You will have to change your life. I have to sit down to put my shoes on, have to do a lung to pick up anything off the floor. You cant "power" through it. Step one, strengthen core safely, ask your PT how to do that, they will instruct you, step 2. YOu have to "learn" not to do stupid stuff and push it anymore, "learn your limits" Step 3. 2 person lift and use a back brace. I do this for anything over 50 lbs. Step 4. Good correct posture. Step 5. inversion tables do work, I have the teeter hangup and it really helps. Step 6. A chiroparctor will get you straight but not keep you straight, only you can do that by repeating steps 1 & 2. My back is hurting just typing this because i had slouching posture. I am pending a lower spinal fusion as I have 3 bulging discs and 4 herniated. I take no pain meds, NONE. I am in pain sometimes but if I cant feel myself hurting it will only get worse. One elk trip is not worth the rest of your life. A major back injury never really heals without surgery, it is only manageable. I have been on 2 elk trips with mine and keeping up with BULLSAC is not easy he is like a mountain goat on steroids. Wear a soft back brace while you hunt and if you have to move it on a sled or cart wear a hard brace ontop of your soft brace and take it slow. Bring an elk recovery kit, pulleys, climbing rope, come along, sled. You can put all that in your game cart and get it close to your harvest so it is easier. You have to improvise or this might be your last trip. Good luck and if you have any questions PM me.
Pfdhunter... I am an MRI technologist and look at backs every day and have back issues of my own. I understand people get frustrated when their MRI comes back with negative results and the doctors say there's nothing wrong. But thats not necessarily true. Just because the MRI doesn't show a bulging disc, or anything else, that doesn't mean there is nothing wrong.
In your wife's case, I'm guessing that she tweaked her back, throwing some of her muscles into spasm. This can be the worst pain in the world. I've experienced it many times myself and have been frustrated that no one but a PT could figure out what was wrong. MRI came back negative with no bulging discs yet I was in excruciating pain. Went to a PT and she did a thorough investigation and went to work. I was back on my feet in no time doing core exercises and very specific stretches.
I see a lot of guys recommending chiropractors. In my experience, as a healthcare professional, the vast majority of them don't know what they're doing. They are a dime a dozen and focus on manipulation of the body vs making the body more flexible, stronger and helping itself. In the end, I think a lack of core strength and flexibility is the root of most low back problems. If you're going to go to a chiropractor, make sure its a damn good one. Now, not all PT's are great either, you need to find a good one. If you aren't getting results from your provider, quit them and go find another one.
I spend 95%of my wakeing time in a Donjoy back brace. So I can say get one, I every time I get out of my recliner, and would not be able to drive or hunt with out it. Also suggest seeing a good Orthopedic doctor verse takeing advice from us. You hope that your vert have not shifted like mine did, 30% off center
Go ahead and laugh, but....I'll be 63 in a couple weeks, had some minor back issues a few years ago, and got back into playing golf.
I worked hard at it, developed a correct back friendly swing, lost a BUNCH of weight, and strengthened my core.
In the process, I regained a level of flexibility I thought was but a distant memory; I make a complete 180º turn going back, and more so on the through swing. Once I'm loose, I can place both palms on the ground between my feet...couldn't do that before.
Through all this, my back has been pain free for 4 years. It was a work in process, but well worth the effort now.
I really wanted to stay out of this but I just can't help myself.
I have been a chiropractor for 40 years longer than some of you have been alive. I have probably saved more sciatic cases from surgery than most surgeons have even operated on. I don't save them all but nobody does. To put it in perspective a large number of my cases are post surgical and still having the same or worse symptoms than they had pre surgery. I have to make this point I have NEVER caused a death or permanent injury which I am sure very few if any surgeons can say. If you don't believe that look at the back surgery stats they are grim at best.
Daily we work with the PT's, Physiatrist, and the MD/Ortho's in our area. We all have our successes and our failures. We can only work with what you bring to the table. As mentioned, core strength is the most important factor that you can personally control. Any modern Chiro, PT, or Sports Doc has access to exact same exercise programs and therapies and again sometimes it works like a miracle and sometimes it is a complete failure. You need to find a reputable professional REGARDLESS of the discipline and work hard to overcome your problem. Always try to go from least invasive to most invasive. Again all healthcare practitioners should know within reason when it is time to take the next step and advise you of your next option.
Beyond that getting advice off a hunting site is pretty shakey. We can't even agree what broadhead or rest to use without sounding like a bunch of imbeciles. I sure would take health care advice with a grain of salt.
Respectfully Michael R Traub DC
deerhaven, glad you didn't stay out of it. I have seen 2 surgeon's who were straight up with me and said that I was looking at 49% success rate at the very best and surgery was the last option. I have talked to many who are worse off a year or two after being operated on than before they went in.
I can tell you this much. If you work hard at getting better you will get better. The responsibility in this case is on the patient. I worked hard at PT trying to avoid surgery. Although I went under the knife I was in great condition at the time. I was told that I could start working six weeks after being cut. I was actually out one week with three weeks of part time work. The doctor told me I had recovered at six weeks where most folks are at six MONTHS. The Nurses involved were great. One nurse and I continue a friendship to this day. This is not typical but I am blessed.
give a chiropractor a shot, I finally did and the results are outstanding.
6 visits in about 6 weeks and sciatic pain has mostly vanished, may just be luck but I'll take it
best of luck to you mad angler
greenmountain If all my patients worked at it like you did I would not get to go hunting nearly as much as I do. LOL!! I am not worried a bit though because most people are wired to seek instant gratification in everything they do. Like in everything there are plenty of people out there marketing that concept including pharmaceutical companies and most every clinic out there regardless of their discipline.
Most of the time long lasting relief is not being blessed as greenmountain said or luck like itshot said it is good old blood sweat and tears. That has not changed a lick in the 40 years I have practiced. I have seen all the miracle cures everyone has had press releases on still the same as it was when I started.
Itshot if you are not prescribed an exercise program go somewhere and get a good one and then follow it to a t. Your chance of your luck holding will improve unbelievably.
I never go on a hunting trip without a bottle of Prednison in case I blow my back. Does wonders for me. See you on the tundra. Rory
bruinpoint- when you say electro-stimulas are you referring to a tens unit?
I would make sure it is your back first off. I had terrible lower back pain, thought it was sciatica and went and had a cat scan. Turns out they told me I had a fracture in my L5. I went to my orthopedic guy and he did plan old x-rays. He said the back injury was very old and had healed. It turns out all my pain was caused by my hip. Told me I needed a hip replacement within the next year. My point is, find out exactly what you are dealing with before listening to anyone on here. Shawn
orthopedic first, then chiropractor for physical therapy, if needed, basically a doctor is the only one that you should be taking advise from. Yours truly crippled man'
Orthos did absolutely nothing for my SI dysfunction except take my money. A good chiropractor with a Palmer degree is what I'd look for unless you're so bad you need surgery. Doesn't sound like it.
One thing that helps me a ton is the belt that black ovis sells, core element also has one. You can cinch it down across your hips and it really stabilizes your pelvis.
There are also a stabilizing Velcro belt that help too.
About 2 weeks ago I started having low back pain and sciatic nerve pain. Went to the chiropractor etc. Tens therapy ,traction etc. nothing helped. I know it wasn't my hip because that's just two years old!(replacement) I was talking with my cousin at a family get together and he said he had had a back problem for years and a PT person gave him some inner core exercises to do and it worked miracles. So I went on the net and looked up inner core exercises and started doing them and within a week I am back to normal.
The exercise is simple lying on your back with knees up try to draw your belly button to your spine and then do a slight pelvic tilt and contract the muscles like your trying to stop peeing and hold that while continuing to breath, do not contract the 6 pack muscles. Hard to explain but lots of examples on You tube.
Give it a try.
thanks mossy . i'll pass it on
tcosmic, The first PT used a tens device. The second PT used frequency specific microcurrent. Both seemed to be effective for pain reduction, but FSM helped loosen up the hardened connective tissue in my back both reducing pain and allowing me to stretch more effectively. Here's an article (it's not exactly "light" reading):
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3576917/
Keeping your back support muscle's strong and firm is of value also.
Lot's of sit-ups, leg lifts and crunches certainly help strengthen the ab muscles and help keep a 'gut' small which of course draws the back hard.
Good luck, Robb
I'd bet my bow you have tight hamstrings. Stretch them. I've cured 20-30 backs with this advice, given to me by a chiropractor 20 years ago. The #1 cause of back problems.
I didn't read all the responses given, but I would start with an MRI to find out exactly what is going on. I have degenerative disc disease at L4-5. To avoid major surgery (fusion) we did some nerve block testing and found that it was the facet joints causing the pain and that made me a candidate for an RFN (Radiofrequency neurotomy). They basically fry the nerves. I've been 80% better since my procedure and can now bend over to put my underwear on instead of reaching to do one leg at a time.
Mad_Angler, I bought an inversion table years ago. For me, it has worked better than chiro or PT visits, and has helped me avoid surgery to this point. Its a stretch that I haven't been able to duplicate otherwise. I also had a guided needle steroid injection for the worst of three herniated disks...it didn't result in any pain relief.
Good luck on your hunt,
Mark
+1 for inversion table. I hurt worse for a few days after I start back on the inversion but much better after a week or so. I've had the steroid injections too. First didn't help much at all. Second helped for several weeks. Third completely fixed me for months.But they're expensive and you can only get 3 or 4 a year.
Be careful if climbing a tree on those pain killers. They make me dizzy. I switched from the heavy hitters to Tramadol. Do they do as good? Nope. But they do give some steady time released relief without feeling all loopy. Bear in mind to really watch your steps when hunting. An unexpected hard step in a pothole will get you down. I'd suggest really good lightweight boots with a good arch support too.
Take a hunting buddy/pack mule too. Mine is 325# and barely notices when I throw a 200# whitetail on his back!
I have broad based disk bulges at L4 and L5. Anytime I aggrevate them my lower back locks up. Those disk get annular tares in them. This creates an inflammatory response with muscle spasms etc... It takes a week or two for the disk to heal up and scar over. You know it's bad when it takes 15 minutes to get off the floor to go to the bathroom and your sweating bullets. I can't stand pain killers and muscle relaxers, but sometimes they are a necessary evil to break the pain cycle the first 2-3 days of a tweaked back.
If this sounds familiar lookup the Mckenzie stretch. I combine those with a lot of core strengthening. I do a lot of crossfit but there are certain lifts I avoid.
I avoid leaning over to pick anything up when possible. I also avoid putting heavy weight out in front of me and leaning over with it. When fatigued while working out I do whatever it takes to avoid bad form.
There are lot of good recommendations for you to consider here!! As a Chiropractor for over 25 years, I have treated sciatica/lower back pain with good results. The key to your dilemma is for a proper examination and follow-up diagnostics (X-ray or MRI) to determine what kind of shape your lower back is in and exactly what is causing your LBP/Sciatica! In other words I have seen 50 year old spines that looked like a 20 year old & I have seen 50 year old spines that looked like an 80 year old. One is very treatable, one is manageable, and some I would not touch with a 10ft pole!! Good luck and hope you have a fast recovery!!
I've been holding off surgery for severe degenerative disk disorder for many years now by staying very physically fit. Strong core is what keeps me from going under the knife I am told. It was diagnosed many years ago when I was in my late 40's. My L4/L5, L5/S1 disks by now don't even really exist since I'm almost 60. If I go for more than a couple of weeks without working out the pain starts coming back and it's by far worst pain I have ever had. When I have had the pain it's far worse than the broken bones and orthopedic surgery I have had.
Luckily one of my close friends and neighbors is an orthopedic surgeon and he has helped me keep from going under the knife by encouraging me. As far as he is concerned it's a total last resort option to do surgery and that's how he makes his living.
I do it by swimming about 250-300 miles a year and that's about 20,000+ flips turns. That keeps my stomach and back strong and keeps me out of the hospital. It isn't always fun doing a hard and long workout most days but it's worth it...I feel great right now....just did two miles over my lunch hour.
I am 39 my L3 is herniated and my L4 is bulging. I still suffer from Sciatic pain from time to time. What has worked for me is to stay active. I keep my work outs up at least 4 times a week. I have limited my lifting to only strength training especially for my lower back. I run 3-4 miles 3-4 times a week as well.
last year we packed out a nice 5x5 with no issues. If I had to guess my pack weight is probably 20-30lbs. Good luck
Stretch and warm up before charging into a vigorous exercise or hike. A possible reason the back feels better as do the elliptical is the muscles warm up and increased blood flow perhaps reducing inflamation and helping heal. And, endorphins.
My neck is jacked. Pile drived into a wood floor from 10 feet as a kid. Knocked me out but otherwise no issues until my neck locked up one day in my late 20s. Arthritis from the childhood injury. Went ot doctor. Figured out was a chronic issue would need to live with so have. Heating pad helps when the neck gets stiff. Hot shower can help.
