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Plenty of guys outraged at these Governor tags. Well of the 2 sold to benefit the AZGF- one for $267,000 and one for $200,000 [I think those numbers are right- from memory]
The one guy didn't even harvest a bull....he passed on a 400" plus bull [from what I hear] and didn't end up hunting the last week. Of course this sucks for the outfitter... but how is this bad for the resource -the elk or elk hunters?
How many avg guys does it take to equal this guys donation?
I just don't see how this can be a bad thing- a win win for all
I dont have a problem with the governer's tags, I just wish the tags were only good during open hunting seasons.
As long as the money goes where it needs to, who cares....
Beendare,
I am with you. If somebody wants to throw a ridiculous amount of money into a program to take one animal, how can that be bad for the overall experience of your everyday hunter. It reminds me of some of the safari hunts that the anti-hunters are so up in arms with because an old animal was harvested. If you have the money and that is what you want to spend it on, in the overall scheme of things, it just means there is more money to allocate toward habitat improvement and healthier herds.
Mike
IMO, the key to Governor's tags is ensuring they remain to a very, very small number per state...like one...maybe two per year at most. Any more than that and we're selling too much opportunity out from under the average hunter to the highest bidder. Hunting is getting too expensive as it is and failure to limit Governor's tags to a bare minimum is one more step to adopting a European approach to hunting.
Arctic, You have nothing but my respect for your actions and comments.
How many is too many?
Its in the states best interest to keep these tag numbers low as if they don't its a self defeating prophesy.
I know the Utah guys are PO'd as that state gives out a lot of tags to the different sportsmans orgs...but in the scheme of things- does it hurt the avg hunter?
In the case of Utah, 200 public draw hunters are not drawing every year so SFW can auction their tags. It would have been 350 each year in AZ if Ken Zimney and others hadn't squashed the AZSFW tag grab proposal. In OR we have about a dozen auction tags and about the same raffle tags, and a bunch of different orgs auctioning them, keeping 10%. I don't mind our dozen or so but I'm not a fan of 200.
Yup. 200 is too many.
We have a handful in CA and I support them.
The down side is that when you turn a public resource into a commodity that can be sold for these huge amounts it sets a precedent.
The way the world works is that when there is a valuable publicly owned commodity, you can bet that private business' and budget hungry government agencies will constantly be trying to leverage it.
That can be a good thing within limits. With wildlife, the farther those limits get stretched the more we risk losing the model of wildlife management that allows the common citizen access to quality hunting.
I have no problem with a guy ponying up thousands for tag soup. The problem is that, when all the record books and headlines are filled with big money bulls killed by hunting parties, it supports the antis stereotype of hunters and their agenda. I also do not support the bounty hunting that happens with most of these tags. Hard to deny that the money is useful but most of it is probably swallowed up by a bureaucratic mess.
The revenues are great, but it needs to be balanced w opportunity for all (as well as perception). I think they should be limited to a few per species at most. I also agree with cmbbulldog that they should ideally only be good for the open hunting seasons, rather than year-round as some are.
The Utah 200 tags mentioned above are JUST the Expo tag$
There are close to 350 Conservation Tag$ that get auctioned at local banquets thru out the state.
So that is more like 550 total auction tags PLUS the Gov auction tags---
Those of you that may still subscribe to Huntin' Fool may have seen all the listed tags by Con. Org in 1 of their issue's....
Good luck, Robb
I think a Governor tag or two is a good thing for hunting. But what's happened in Utah is a shame.
auction tags are a great thing for the animals and the sprtsman's groups that support them. However the number must remain extremely limited, otherwise they defeat their purpose and the value of those tags is reduced while angering your average hunter. 1% of available tags with a minimum of 1 per species seems fair to me.
Just my opinion, so don't roast me for this, but I think they are complete horse $h!t! Yes it does provide much needed money for the animals in the state, but raising the application fee for each person, 10 dollars each, would likely raise as much if not more than what the governors tags would raise in most states. I for one would have no issue paying even 50 bucks more a year just for my application fee, to see them do away with the governors tag program. There are other ways to raise the money if it's needed. There are thousands of average joes that would be thrilled as hell to have one of those tags, but will never have that kind of money. Heck most guys don't even have the money to go on a guided hunt, or hire a guide for a public land tag. Why should some rich prick get special hunting privileges over the rest of the average joes, just because he can pony up more money than most make in 2 or 3 years? Put in with the rest of us, and if you draw your dream tag, spend what ever you want on a guide to tag the animal of your dreams. It's your money at that point. Just keep it fair for everyone if you ask me. Just my two cents.
You're the exception, as I recall the screaming and whining over on CW forum when AZ raised their fees.
There will always be screaming and whining. That's what people like to do. Raise the fees, and of course they're going to whine, but they'll still buy em. I honest'y don't think that the prices are that high myself.
I would MUCH rather them sell one tag for $200k than raise everyone's already absurd NR annual fees another $50 just to apply. Hell most states make me buy a hunting license to even apply when I know for a fact I will never step foot in that state to hunt that year. I put up with it, but after I cash out of the points I've already been banking for close to a decade I will likely no longer participate in many western draws. Plenty of general tags to enjoy/use and can buy a private land ranch guided hunt for the price of applying 10+ years on top of the tag price once you draw.
It's wealth envy when someone gets mad over the price the tags are fetching. If the governor tags had a cap to sell for a measly $5k or less would this make everyone feel better about the program?
Make the Gov tag a raffle and you will raise more money. PA started having 2 Gov Tags last year. One auctioned, one raffled (1 chance $25, 6/$100). Gov Tag usually gets 40-50K. This year's tag was auction by RMEF for $52,500. This years raffle tag raised $157K. About the same for each was raised last year as well.
IMO, raffle the tags. It gives the average Joe a chance at a coveted tag and it will raise more money then an auction would.
I completely agree TPlank, but anyone who pays 200k for a tag is most likely donating somewhere else... politically that is.
But beyond the tag price I'm certain these guys spend a lot more and that money goes into the pockets of a lot of avg joes. I bet the guy who won the raffle didn't go above and beyond like the other. Now if it were all raffle only I bet those numbers would double.
The main issue I have with any ' governors" tags that are auctioned off is when the tag holder is not bound by the same laws and seasons that governs everyone else tags. By allowing money to circumvent the laws and regulations it stinks of elitism and special privilege.
Also in regards to tags that were allocated to governors or commissioners ect are they all accounted for yearly and is it a matter of public record who the tags were given to? We see the most visible tags because of the action price they fetch and the fact that a organization used it as a fund raiser...but are any of these tags being given out to friends? family? political contributors?
TEmbry. No wealth envy here at all. Like Trial153 said, the governors tag is a free for all. Any unit, any weapon, any time. The average joe will never have this opportunity. Yes raising the fees 50 bucks would be steep, but I was saying that as an example. I personally would have no problem with it. 5 bucks however is not a huge deal, and is feasible. You figure 125,000 people putting in for hunts in AZ at 5 bucks extra per applicant. That would easily make up for the revenues brought in by the governors tags. I know there is no easy or simple solution to this, but I would agree that a raffle might be a fairer possible solution to this, that may be capable of raising even more money. Yes guys willing to spend 320,000 bucks for a deer tag can still buy more tickets, but there's always the chance the average joe could walk away with this opportunity with a single ticket.
I don't believe in Governor Tags to the highest bidder.....PERIOD! They should be raffled for the public to raise the money. Additionally, they should not be good for the year.....only during the seasons already established. Teddy Roosevelt would roll over in his grave over what is happening in Utah. JMO
I'm not a big fan of the "Anytime season" but I can see where this contributes to the value of the tag.
I can understand The Utah argument- but then these tags are given to hunting conservation orgs that do a lot more for hunting than the avg tagholder...is it just sour grapes from Utah residents?
In AZ, wealthy folks would still buy those tags even if they didn't get all season to hunt them. I'm sure they prefer the 1 yr season, but they'd still sell.
Beendare, those handouts result in SFW pocketing an unknown amount of $ that ultimately came from the sale of a public resource with basically zero accountability. Additionally, the # of those tags have a direct and significant effect on the draw odds for residents and non-residents alike due to their sheer number.
Here in Cali, we have a couple state wide deer tags, a couple elk tags, and a sheep tag that get auctioned. The difference is, there's no tangible effect on state wide draw odds and every cent of that money goes to specie specific conservation. I can get behind that.
People are getting rich off of this in Utah at the expense of everyone's draw odds. There's a huge difference. That's not sour grapes. That's righteous indignation.
