The intent of this thread is to understand opposing viewpoints regarding shot placement on a broadside elk. I understand that this has been discussed MANY times here in detail, but I feel a revisit is worthwhile, especially for those guys going on their first elk hunt this year. What I am hoping for, is that a few experienced guys that have killed an elk or 2 with arrows, will chime in and offer a qualified opinion of just where is the best place to run and arrow through a bull? Since most boys like pics with their stories, I will include a few of mine. Feel free to add your own, but please be able to explain in detail, as in, you completed a detailed post Mortem inspection of compromised organs, arteries and bones.
While serving as cabin boy and horse wrangler and official photographer for LegoMan last year on his Colorado chipmunk hunt, I asked for and received permission to take a break from my chores and chase elk for a few days while he formulated his hunt strategy. I felt a bit guilty leaving him at the mercy of his dangerous quarry, but he has been in many tight spots by himself and has always come out unscathed.
I took advantage of the freedom! On the first evening out, a sweet, eminently edible (read small) bull responded to the calls and was soon standing unaware and broadside at 35 yards and I killed him clean. Since this is about shot placement, that's all I will write about the hunt.
The shot was a complete passthrough and was stuck in a log about 5 yards or so behind the bull. Since broadheads are always a hot topic here, the bull was killed with a 125 gr. Viper Trick by Slick Trick.
Here is what I believe happens on a hit like this and what may account for the bull being on his feet so long. The arrow entered and exited through the meaty "tricep" part of the shoulder. When this happens, especially when the arrow shaft is not present, the hole through the shoulder is independent of the hole in the ribs and acts as a seal to the chest cavity. Little to no air is introduced and lung collapse is delayed or prevented, which was the case here. His lungs were fully inflated when I opened him up. Blood also has no direct path out of the body, until blood starts blowing from the nose/mouth. I believe collapsed lungs stop an animal before blood loss does. Imagine getting punched in the diaphragm and then having to run a 100 yard dash. You're not going to get far. Couple that with an arrow through your lungs and you're not going anywhere.
Dwight Schuh advocates shooting back and center from what has been discussed here. Hard to argue with his success.....the lungs are actually larger and thicker at about the 5th or 6th rib and 5-6" under the spine. Blood will not be contained by shoulder muscles nor air be prevented into the chest cavity, quickly collapsing lungs.
So....do the pros/cons of one placement overshadow the other? Is there truly a "best shot" in this scenario?
I'm also of the school of behind the leg, double lung pass through. You guys know the rest...with an open wound channel, atmospheric pressure collapses the lungs and they go down fast.
I agree with the "leg closing the wound" theory...yeah, he's dead, just nobody's told him yet :^)
That being said ...
To anyone new to archery elk hunting, there is one tip I think we all would support: the best shot to take is when the broadside animal's front leg closest to you is in the forward position. There are many things that can affect arrow flight --- having the shoulder blade out of the way as much as possible expands our desired target area ...
6 of 7 of my last deer/elk have died in sight, the only miscue being a poor choice moving shot that ended up liver hit and recovered 200 yds away. I'm aiming for the vessels coming off the top of the heart, no matter the angle.
It's straight up the leg, middle of the triangle for me. Same mid body BH pass point for quartering away animals (about at the crease).
Double pneumothorax is great till it's single pneumothorax. I prefer to kill by exsanguination.
I believe the bull in my example to be something of an anomaly, as I've killed other elk with the same shot and all have died within 60 yards. This bull ran like a rocket after the shot and didn't slow down until he cartwheeled, whereas the other ones stopped to look back before the lights went out.
On any angle other than broadside, especially for a simple minded guy like me who can't think of 2 things at once, my aiming point is always the offside leg.
Someone said above that many elk have been lost with a low hit just a bit back. I agree 100%. 4" behind the point of the elbow on a broadside elk is all paunch. Mony guys have made this shot and gone immediately into celebration mode, only to be bitterly disappointed when they never see that elk again.
had a whitetail that made a very quick 100 yard dash after a broadhead took everything right off the top of his heart. Not hardly a drop of blood! and there was patchy snow!!! After opening the deer up and seeing that everything was basically snipped right off of top of heart, we decided the heart had nothing to pump or no pressure to push blood out.
Sometimes things just don't make sense...............
I usually just wait for them to turn towards me so i can shoot the frontal shot- grin
Shoulder blade can float several inches up or down if the animal twists a certain way. Found that out the hard way last Season!
Just saying...static pictures are not an absolute. They are a great reference, though!
Best of Luck, Jeff
I tell them to always aim for the center of that cantelope, never the offside leg. The reasoning being, as the animal turns, the aim point remains the same; the center of rotation. If they aim for the offside leg, as the animal turns, facing away for example, the offside leg will move left of center, as will their aim point. At 45 deg, they would be well left of center. Aiming at the center of rotation in the above example, the exit point would be in front of the offside leg.
If they hit that cantelope with a 3 blade head, of sufficient diameter, they will hear that animal fall. 100 yards at full throttle is about the max I have seen an Elk go. I believe it takes that long to fully deplete the oxygen in the brain and have all systems fail. They don't need a functioning heart or blood pumping thru the brain to run.
My personal opinion, based only on my own experience, is that a vital triangle shot often results in some bone involvement, whether a glancing blow to on-side bone, or glancing or full hit on offside bone. This results in an animal that runs hard at the shot. And often, because of the leg moving and covering holes, seems to result in a lesser blood trail.
Seems a majority of the animals I shoot in the vital triangle run hard 100+ yards, die in mid-flight, often with a difficult to follow blood trail. They're still dead, and I still find them, it's just harder.
Whereas a large majority of the animals I've killed with crease shots bound off, maybe stop to look back and then fall over, etc. And the blood trails are often painted on the ground and trees, very easy to follow at a fast walk.
I'm torn. They are both effective. I tend not to think about it too much, and instead try to take the best shot for the angle I've been given. Sometimes it's a vital triangle, sometimes it's a crease.
Bake
You make perfect sense. However, as I described above, at the moment of truth, the few coherent thoughts I can form could never envision an elk carrying cantelope.....my personal experience after 40 some odd years of shooting critters of all sizes with arrows, offside leg has worked for me with a low % of errors.
It seems to me the shoulder blade might be anchored at the top of the shoulder a little forward in that pic...but otherwise pretty close.
I shot a whitetail doe in the > last year and I actually found blood spray at site where the arrow hit her. It severed the aorta right above the heart. She made it about 30 yards at a full sprint.
No bloodtrail--he went maybe 3 steps (as he was falling over) Yeah, I like a coc tapered BH- if you do your part they don't even know they are hit.
