Did my elk live or die???
Elk
A little help guys. I'm distraught. I thought for a moment that I'd shot a bull on Saturday night. I have no excuse, it was my fault...I jerked the shot and it was low light but definitely legal. I couldn't find the arrow or blood. I searched that night and in through the next day. Followed his tracks forever. No blood. So I assumed I missed.
I went and picked up my camera from a waterhole about 3/4 of a mile away. These photos are from the following evening. When I saw them I was sick. I put down my bow and have been searching until it rained today...hard.
Did he survive? Is he piled up under a tree somewhere? I can't sleep.
That's the entry by the way.
44 yards broadside. Why is the arrow still in him over 24 hours later?
I shoot 72 llbs. Fmj arrows and razor sharp wac em's. .
Not a lot of penetration at all... I'm gonna be optimistic and say a spine hit and he's got a chance. Arrow still in him cuz it's lodged in bone. Plenty of bulls taken that had old healed up broadheads lodged in the spine. If it didn't hit some major bone and hit lower I'd think it would have blown on through, not much there to stop an arrow.
If it hit lower and into some other organs/gut he's dead. Spine or above he's got a good shot at it.
Stay on him, lucky to have a pic from the water he's using, I don't think he'll travel much or go real far unless he gets bumped. Loss of fluid he will be close to water. Good luck. Still have a chance. You never know.
Thanks TD. Solid response. I hope he lives so another hunter can shoot him next week in the 2nd season and get the meat instead of crows and coyotes.
If your season is still open, don't put down your bow. Although I personally wouldn't shoot a different elk, that one may need a follow-up shot. Sorry for your circumstamces. Unless you recover that bull you likely will never know whether your mistake caused his death or whether he fully recovered. That's the hardest part of a situation like this...the not knowing. Regardless of what's said on this thread, if you do not personally recover that bull there is a good chance that you will never know the final result of your shot. I would imagine that is the hardest possible situation in bowhunting to deal with...at least for bowhunters with ethics like you appear to possess. I wish you the best of luck. If the outcome remains unknown all you can do is remember the feeling you have now and do your best to allow it to motivate you to do your best in the future. Even when we do our best these things can happen. That doesn't make it okay, nor does it offer much comfort in this difficult time.
A different look at the penetration.
I think he will be fine, but you did accomplish one thing. you have come up with a new reason for a poor shot that has never been used before and that is more of a feat than killing any elk.
shaking from lack of food and water. Original! LOL
your elk will be fine. get back out there, after eating and hydrating, and make it happen.
I've made bad shots on deer before as well so I'm no saint here but why do we do this to our selves? Why do we post this so anti's have more fuel for their fire? It's a part of hunting, I get that but I just don't understand why we keep putting this stuff up here every year, it's like throwing a 2x4 into a bucket of termites.
I would like to thanks RedneckSundevil for sharing so that we can all learn from each other.
I agree that it hit the spine. If it had hit between vertebrae, then he would have been paralyzed in the hindquarters & you would not have these pictures and would likely have followed him up & recovered him.
Awesome bull! I would have been pumped & shaking a bit too.....
Feces occurs, as its a real world out there.
Thanks for sharing....
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I agree, no offense but better to take the picture down...it's just not good PR. Describe it for us. Nothing worse for bowhuntings future than pictures circulating the Internet of animals walking around with arrows stuck in them. You are right it's part of the hunt with any weapon, we try to be humane but sometimes it doesn't work out. At least we don't tear things apart alive like wolves and wild dogs.
Saw a bull hit in a similar position last year. This hit was the same height but farther forward. I watched the hit bull chasing cows four days later with the arrow still in him. Good chance he will survive if infection and septic shock does not occur.
Not to derail the thread but the antis fuel thing is a joke. If they want it they have enough fuel already to last 30,000 life times. In the end what do they need to do? Tell the world some guy shot a lion and the whole globe goes nuts! What did they use? Emotion, stories and a hero shot. Who's got problems with hero shots on bowsite? No one.
We are hunters. The OP made a bad shot which he is obviously remorseful about and trying to figure things out. Nothing to hide about that. Even though I don't think a thread could possibly give him closure.
As far as the elk - no one can tell you. Maybe a blade nicked the guts on way to spine maybe it didn't. Maybe the bull succumbs to infection maybe he doesn't. Unfortunately sounds like you did what u could, and have people still out there. Learn and move on.
Ok I guess. Images deleted.
Thanks for everything.
I wish you wouldn't have taken pics down so those of us who haven't seen them know what you are talking about. I agree the whole anti-hunter thing is ridiculous.
Either way, here's the truth about all this remorse guys have for wounding animals. It's pretty misguided and honestly unnecessary.
Does anyone want to wound an animal? No. If you do you are one sick puppy. I think we can all agree on that.
However, biologist take into account when they set tag quotas, etc. hunters wounding animals, getting hit by cars and nature doing its thing. They do the same thing for bag limits for fish - they know the est. mortality rate of fish being caught and let go.
Is it a bummer what happened? Sure it is. Just like a lot of things in life when they don't go bad. So you have a choice - keep hunting or quit.
You did your best to recover the animal and it appears likely it will live (it may not).
I keep hunting as long as I am within the bounds of the law and understand what went wrong.
BTW I am not saying keep flinging arrows and wounding animals for those guys who will think that.
Well, he was alive one day after the shot, so I'm leaning towards survival. I've never elk hunted, but from what I've seen and heard, they are incredibly tough animals. Hope he can snap that arrow off and the would will heal. Who knows, maybe you'll kill him next year?
yeah, put the pics back on.
If he doesn't get an infection he'll live. If he does, he'll die. It's that simple. Don't beat yourself up Sundevil. We've all been there, and if we haven't then it's only a matter of time until we are. No one wants to be in that position and it shows a lot about your character that you feel badly about it, as we all should. These animals go through a lot worse in their lives than an arrow in the back. Hope for the best, that another hunter whether bow or gun harvests him. Good luck to you the rest of the fall.
Didn't get to see the photos but from what people described, it doesn't sound any worse for the bull as getting stuck with a tine during a fight.
It's pretty bad, I saw the pics.
What's really odd is that in the 2nd pic you posted, it clearly looks like there are two holes in that elk, one up high where the arrow is and then another down low directly below the other wound. Is that just blood? It really looks like another arrow wound.
I agree with 6 points. If elk or any wild animal died from infection every time they bled, it would be a pretty bleak landscape.
In 2013, I ran across a set of elk tracks in the snow with some blood. I tracked them for almost 1/2 mile. (By the tracks and smell I suspected it was a bull). This was an area with other hunters so I went with the assumption that someone had arrowed him and he was wounded. From where he went, (Thick crap and up) he wasn't hurting. I ended up jumping him. Based upon what I saw, he was speared by another bull and no hunter had any part in him leaving blood.
My point is bowhunters are out there for one or two weeks a year. Animals face adversity every day for 52 weeks out of the year. We are but a small section of the many things that can kill an animal
If you put an arrow into the body cavity, different story. But if it is spine area and he didn't go down, no vital organs were harmed in your shot. It sucks and I don't intend to diminish your despair, it should suck! It shows you care and have remorse, regret and want to do everything to make it right. It is ok to 2nd guess and reformulate what you would do the next time you have an opportunity. That is the definition of "experience". Not all experiences are positive! But we can and should learn from all of them.
EDIT: I did not see the pics.
Maybe if it's just the body it will be less personal/offensive. If anyone thinks this is too objectionable I will pull it too.
HerdManager, I don't know what that other spot is. I assume it's from the same wound (blood).
He ran through a whole area of dead trees and blew them up after hit. Branches going everywhere. Maybe from that. I don't know.
He's dead if the arrow on the OP bull is in the position shown in that pic.
We found a guys dead 6x and were standing 200 yards from it as he was telling us he made a bad shot but had it on trail camera two days later so "it was fine".
Can you repost the pictures, it's a hunting site, and guys are more than willing to help you. Things happen.
I wouldn't be surprised if he lives. Especially if he's on his feet that long after being shot. The backstrap comes way down below the line of the back right there, and I think it would be quite possible that you got one of the vertebral bodies and that's why your penetration was poor. I think it's definitely possible your shot was above the guts, but if it hit any of them, he probably won't make it. It looks high enough to me that it is possible you missed the guts, but that's just my opinion.
If it's an area you can leave your camera up, you could see if you get any pics of him later on to maybe give yourself a little peace. I think anyone who has hunted long enough will have lost an animal at some point, and it is frustrating and discouraging, but we learn our lessons and move on. I hope he makes it. Very nice bull.
What type of BH? I can't believe that didn't hit the abdominal aorta. He would would have been dead in seconds. Might be just above it in spine, like others have said, but it looks lower. Maybe missed it just low, if so he will die.
Heck if I know, but I would continue to hunt that same bull. Tread lightly, at the very least he's hurt, maybe he's looking to recover, you might jump him. Then again, he could be in a different zip code. Good luck, he's a good looking bull!
From the pics, I'm inclined to say you got guts and he is dead, but the penetration is pretty unusual for that gut location. As has been said, there is nothing to stop an arrow in that spot, so if you hit guts, it would be weird not to get a pass through. Also, his posture looks pretty good. The gut hit animals I have seen all tend to have a haunched up, sick to their stomach look.
Did you find any blood? If so, how did it look/smell?
Good luck and unfortunately, it happens. I lost my first one last year on a high, suspected spinal fin hit. It was the same height and about a foot farther forward than yours with pretty much the exact same arrow penetration.
Man that's a heckuva bull.
I will say if an animal is going to survive it will be from that shot. It's marginal at best.
If he doesn't get sick from it I say he survives.
If it was lower I would say he's dead and I think you would have seen him real sick.
Then again these situations are all just guessing games because so many variables will dictate whether or not he survives.
Now that I have seen the pics, (Assuming elk was shot on flat ground) I stand by my original comment. If you run an arrow through the body cavity, it will die. (It might take hours depending upon what organs are hit)
This arrow is above the spine. Think about how thick the hide is. Think about how big elk backstraps are.
If the trail pic was 24 hours after shot, there is no way that elk would be on his feet (w/o someone pusshing him)if original shot were gut. He might be alive, but he would be laying down, septic.
The bull we found dead was alive on a cam 2 days after being shot according to the shooter.
Here's another. mostly the pics had his head down.
Those of you who asked me to pull the pictures down, I will soon.
I think the white dot in the middle of the blood (?) is my nock/fletching.(next photo)
I agree with AndyJ, it looks like you have caught some guts. It may take a few days but I believe he will die. Gut shot animals have a tendency to head for water as they turn septic they get incredibly thirsty. I believe he will be close to that water source and be dead in in a day or two. Remember nothing goes to waste in nature. Shawn
I don't think he will make it
Hard to say if you hit guts or not from the pic. Dam close for sure! Hope he makes it or gets taken soon.
I'd say you hit gut and if that's a water hole, I'd put money on the fact he's not going far. gut shot animals consume a lot of water .
The two water sources within 2 miles of where he was shot had my cameras up until Tuesday. He had hit both water tanks one Saturday (when I shot) and Sunday (pics with the arrow). After these Sunday photos he didn't hit either of them. The cows were there on both cameras without a bull. He had at least a half dozen cows with him when I shot him.
I along with many many other archers have been in your shoes...
Last year I wounded a bull, I am confident he survived but I still feel terrible about it. I barely hunted this year and never found myself really interested in actually hunting, I just haphazardly walked through the woods thinking about my bull from last year...
I don't have any advice for you, but I will say that it happens to more of us than will probably admit, and I hope you find him...
I think you should keep the pictures up, but I respect your decision not too, if you so choose.
I lost a deer a few years back and it was tough for me. And it was just a small buck. This too shall pass. If you don't feel like hunting, it might make you feel better to keep looking. Scour the area around those holes. Who knows you might find him. Maybe dead, maybe alive? Probably should pick that bow back up and bring it with you though :)
I think the fact that it bothers you is a good thing. I came across a guy in colorado while hunting and he told me how he took a shot at a bull and didn't find much blood, lost the trail after 30 minutes and gave up. I wanted to punch the guy. 5 miles in, ain't the place to start a fight, so I moved on
Get back in the saddle as soon as you can.
Hi Jeff! Long time. I'm sorry to hear and see about this elk. I know that you know, it certainly does happen and I've been there myself. Based on the pics, I'd find it hard to believe that he survived. But, I know they are incredibly tough animals and I would never be surprised about what they could survive on the other hand. I can't see this being above the spine. If I'd have just seen the shot without hearing the story I would've thought you would've at least clipped liver. Sorry for your luck! Hope to hear from you soon.
Chris
Thanks Chris. Hope you're doing well. It's been too long.
Looks like spine, maybe. Keep after it. I shot an antelope in the butt broadside this year and it finally blead out and i found it the next day.
My dad hit a big 6x6 in southern NM in about the same spot a few years ago. We followed blood and tracks for about a mile and finally lost all sign going up a thick hillside. We looked for the bull for several days. The ranch foreman found him about a week later in a dry river bed a mile or so away. Not sure exactly how long he lasted, but it was probably several days. We knew the hit was high and back. Dad was sick about the shot. We found blood on the underside of Juniper branches and similar spots that confirmed a high back hit. We recovered the antlers, but no meat, kill pics, etc.
I would suggest to read ZBarebow's last post again. From what I've experienced, animals with a perforated gut don't walk much, or feed, or water, or breed. They lay down as soon as possible, will only move a short distance if disturbed at very close range, and die within 4-24 hours. From the pics, the broadhead appears to be lodged in a vertebra. IMO the arrow would not still be there if it wasn't lodged in bone.
lots of instances of deer surviving hits like that, these animals are tough buggers, keep the trail cam out if you can and see if you pick him up later.
My friend gut shot an elk a number of years ago that was seen alive but sick as heck 5-6 days later (don't remember the exact #).
I think the arrow is lodged in an off side rib. Also it is a fact that gut shot animals head for water and drink a lot. As septis sets in they get incredibly thirsty. That shot looks to low to be lodged in the spine unless the shot was uphill and than the angle is wrong. Shawn
He is a gone'er bud. He'll be dead by the end of the week if he isn't already.
44 yards s a long poke with ANY bow and arrow when shooting at a live animal. A lot of things can and will go wrong. There is a lesson here and you sound like you have figured it out or,are real close to it. However, there is no need to over analyze what could have been the problem at this point. You have already done that. Just remember that if you hunt, this is going to happen regardless of the range you typically shoot animals. So, I'm not knocking the longer shot's. They are required sometimes. I'm not knocking you either. We all make mistakes and error sometimes. This is just a result of trying to kill something that requires humans to place a deadly shot to accomplish it.
Wild predators miss their mark all the time. So, when sharp projectiles are required to be used to kill your food,(a wild animal), that has no desire to become your food, sometimes the results for us hunters aren't favorable, no matter how hard we try to do it right. Keep your head up and God Bless
P.S. take the picture down.
Don't start! 44 yards isn't a LONG poke!
"Don't start! 44 yards isn't a LONG poke!"
That, as well as the statement it responds to are very subjective. My confident effective range is 50 yards. To me, 44 yards is pushing towards the end of that. I executed the most perfect 50 yard shot I have ever executed on a monster bull this year. Trouble is, the bull turned out to be 60 yards away. I had a clean miss. If this was a 3D tournament the OP would have scored a "5", but I scored "0". Given the fact that we were shooting at live animals, I won and the OP lost.
I wrote an article for the "Situation Ethics" column of Bugle magazine a couple years ago. I shot a bull at nearly 60 yards away. I found the bull the same day. I packed out the bull the following day. The meat spoiled. This year I missed what I believed to be a 50 yard broadside shot and then passed on a 43.5 yard shot (rangefinder verified) on the same bull because the shot angle wasn't perfect.
All we can do is our best. Our best will never be perfect. Perfection is the commitment to do our best and to learn from every experience.
Ok WV. The picture is down per your direction.
I killed my bigger bull at 40+. Anyway, I was asking about alive or dead. The search went on for many more days. No crows, nothing. Then the next hunt started and my tag expired. Couldn't tag it in AZ even if I was standing over it 1 second after my season ended. I appreciate all of your thoughts. Have a great rest of the year.
Redneck, I wasn't saying the problem was the range. Even though some readers are very bad at comprehension and missed that. The problem is IT happens at any range. Especially in low light and excited times. All you can do is your best and learn from it. But, please don't let a guy that can't read and understand something, make you think I was dogging you. I have been where you are at. No dogging, just telling you what I learned from it. God Bless
No offense taken brother. Cheers.
I have seen bulls mounting cows and fighting other bulls with some bad arrows in them. This year we had a Hull running cows with an arrow going in the right side of his neck and poking out the left side of his spine might d chest. He was running the show. They are tough as hell.
