First off, I am not trying to sell anything or promote any one product or technique. I know some very good elk hunters that only use bugles, others only use cow calls and some use both.
Me? I use both. I hunt a popular Colorado OTC area, heavily hunted. Been hunting it for 25+ years. And I can say that our success has been ‘quite good’ over the years using both. There is a time and place to use each and other times to use both.
Curious as to ‘why’ you choose to call the way you do. Is it because of the time of season you hunt? Is it because of hunting pressure? Because the elk respond better? Or is it because you ‘like’ to call that way?
Let’s hear your ‘why’
And sometimes, being silent on the vocal and just breaking branches and snapping small limbs works even bester.
Like most, I use both. Like cnelk, I've hunted the same hard-hunted general license area for 30+yrs.
I learned a long time ago that getting too aggressive with the bulls I hunt is a sure-fire way of sending them heading for parts unknown, regardless of the time of season. There's only one exception where I'll get aggressive right from the get-go. If I have a bull going nuts, I'll sneak in as close as I possibly dare and throw a challenge bugle at him. As soon as he bugles again, I'll cut him off with another bugle, mimicking his own. Since he's already agitated, I want to piss him off even more, to the point he'll make a mistake
Any other time, I'll again get as close as I dare and hit a couple mews. If this gets the response I want, that's what I'll keep using. Most my bulls have been called in with nothing more than this. However, if he won't commit to this, then I'll hit a squeal. If he still won't commit, only then will I throw the kitchen sink at him with bugles, chuckles, tree raking, foot stomping, etc. Been blessed with great success using these tactics. I don't call the way I do because I prefer one way to the other. I do it because it's worked for over 30yrs.
Compromise calling. Bull won't come in to cow calling, but responds with a bugle. Have a partner cow call while I sneak in to the bugles. Has it worked. Yes, and no. Which is a sometimes.
Terry
Terry, that's a gem right there...and so true, whether talking calling, or darn near anything else elk related!
Today, I call much more sparingly, if at all, unless I know a good bull is very close. The bugle is my primary call and I use it in the same manner wyobullshooter described. If I'm hunting a quality area with big satellite bulls, I will cow call under the right circumstances.
Last month, I hunted eight days and killed my best bull to date. Did not use a call at all. My bull bugled on his own enough to allow me to move into position and put an arrow through him.
Where I hunt...bugles call in HUNTERS
That being said...I use both. I only ran into one group of two guys this Season...right after I got into a screaming match with a nice 6x6.
Best of Luck, Jeff
When I blind call, I create a scenario where I sound like a small herd of cows and calves, with a whiney bull, that has moved into the area and is milling around. I do calf calls, cow calming calls, loud irritated cow calls, an occasional bull squeal, hooves hitting logs, sticks popping. I started doing this long before there were DVDS.
This method has called in some of the biggest bulls of my season, but like with anything, it only works some of the time. I did a couple calling setups with a guy from MN whom I randomly met in the woods this season, and after the first setup he came over and told me I sounded so much like a herd of elk that he felt silly even trying to call. But nothing came in, so....
I believe an old coiled gas pipe would probably work sometimes for a bugle now, since nobody makes that sound anymore.
Unfortunately when I tried that this Season...the log I was pounding on turned out to be a yellowjacket nest.
It was not a good day!
As I mentioned, I use BOTH, but not equally. I have had several chats with Jeff @ ElkMtnGear and he and I hunt almost EXACTLY the same, and different places in Colorado - both of us in OTC areas.
I also set up and call with 2-3 calls to sound like a small herd of elk. Why not? Elk are herd animals.
Bugling on a Sat/Sun in some of my areas will most likely bring in hunters. Mid-week is a much better time to bugle.
Cow calling has brought in more elk for me than bugling 2:1 ratio. Big bulls, small bulls and cows. I gotta go with what works for some of the areas I hunt.
When the bulls get to bugling, I can intensify the bugling by participating and challenging. Then sneak in and shoot. Sometimes its a mew to close the deal after bugling.
Sure we are mostly freezer hunters. And Im OK with that. We plug raghorns, cows and the occasional 'good bull' using the style for that day.
Thats the "how" & "why" I use the calls I do. There definitely not one way to shoot an elk on any given day.
In the last 15 years, there has only been 3 years I didnt punch my archery tag, but it wasnt because I didnt shoot - but thats a whole other topic about missing... :)
Terry
It seems from year to year that either the bugle or the cow call seems the enticing force. We will go with what's getting the results. One thing we do not do is force calls onto elk because we want them to work for us no matter their reaction . In many cases we read the situation & act according to what is our best odds for a close encounter. Some encounters happen quick & there is no situation to read when the elk have not responded to calls or on their own.
Case in point, it seemed more like a cow calling year even though we bugled lots of bulls. Here's a story from this year with the cow call.
We had went into a favorite area aprox 2-1/2 miles in starting at daylight with no action in that spot! We could hear a couple bugles coming from below us on the mountain close to 3/4 mile away. It took my son & I aprox 40 minutes to get down into the area where we could hear this one bull that roared more than bugle! We reached the bench above him but by then he had stopped bugling, it was aprox 10:30 a.m. then. We kept watch on the bench below for any activity, it's sparsely timbered but covered mostly in willows & alders that are very thick with few spots to actually see in, it's aprox 250 yards to the middle of the bench. Nothing bugled for the next 2-1/2 hours or so.
We sat tight had a small snack & an off & on nap as we listened for any bugling or cow calling, we stayed patient & focused for the situation we were in. About 1:45 we sat up & had a small snack again & waiting for anything. Out of nowhere I see this bull standing & slowly walking through a 20' opening, it was a stroke of luck I even saw him as he was in it for seconds & gone. I told my son I'd seen the bull but he disappeared into the brush. I grabbed my bow nocked an arrow even though the bull was several hundred yards below somewhere. I looked back at my son who was 20 yards behind me I was on one knee looking below from a large rock yet next to a pine tree growing out of this huge rock. I asked him to give two cow calls, he did, I saw the bull come out of the thicket & back into it but looked like he showed interest.
I told my son give two more, after he called the bull gave his short roar showing serious interest!!! Game on! I watched the bull coming my way at a decent pace, as soon as he was in the thick stuff again I gave my son a signal to call again, the bull roared a 2nd time & was coming, wow this was easy! (grin) I grabbed my rangefinder & shot a tree at 80 yards & a stump at 31 yards that I'd hoped he'd come by so I had an idea of the distance. It was very steep on this downhill shot & those can fool you so the rangefinder with angle compensation came in handy. The bull hit the 80 yard spot then 70-60-50-40-30 & still coming. As soon as he neared the fallen stump below me he had to go around it, that's when I drew my bow, he was fumbling around on the steep slope & trying to get through the brush, he appeared with a frontal shot but I declined as I felt he would turn somewhat broadside as he maneuvered himself up the hill.
He did just that, he turned at 25 yards & hesitated for a split second as he was looking where he was going to step next, snap, the release was touched! The arrow was through him in an instant & he bolted right towards us. He had to go around another rock but came within 10 yards of us looking for that cow, unreal!!!! He never stopped but was going mach 10, I was nocking a 2nd arrow as he flew by. It's all on video too! (grin) The bull only went uphill 50 yards then turned & crashed in the brush & ended in some downfall, he went aprox 100 yards before expiring on a double lung shot!
ElkNut1
I almost always try and create a story when calling. Not every bull standing on a ridge is going to come over to your call. He doesn't have to.. your job is making him want to.
If I'm calling from a blind most of the time I start off with small quieter mews, nothing too long or loud. It's low pressure and I've had many elk sneak in that were close already. Given a little bit with nothing showing I will increase the sound and frequency mainly with cow calls.. and then a small bull or two squeeling and short bugles and raking. I've had small bulls, big bulls, and cows come into this. If they come early many times they come in grazing.
If it's early in the season or they are bachelor grouped OR if I know there are mainly bulls in the area I will forego the cow calls and use smaller bugles and raking with some squeels. Even acting bulls horseplaying to draw in the others. When bulls come in to this they are usually looking around and sharp.
If they are bugling. I typically sneak in as close as I can and get in a spot WITH lanes, if I need that last little bit of distance I will mew or super quietly glunk, short chuckle to get them to come the last few yards. If I can I will call move even 5 yards and then setup to the side. If I have to use a locator for them to bugle I go towards them quick and fairly loud breaking sticks and bugles.. shutting up and circling them the last few 50-75 yards or so.
If I'm following a whole herd with a bull I will typically create a scenario where I irritate the bull and pretend to be a satellite bull pulling a cow away from the herd. I cow call irritated as if she isn't happy about it. I will cut off the bugle if he does call, I've spooked cows off before and still had this work. If I break up a whole heard I've had good luck with regroup and lost calf calls.
I've used the challenge bugle with success but most of the time they get charged up and come in head on and they typically are all jumpy and on high alert. I usually use this as a last resort when I've run out of lower stress options or time and I'll get within very close distance first and I won't do it to the same bull twice if I can help it to not run him out.
If an elk isn't grazing or stopped, I typically will stop them with a mew or a sharp cow call before the shot. I've even barked at elk to make them stop when running away. I had a barking contest with a big bull in a meadow after he saw me while 4 smaller bulls were still between us trying to decide who they should go with. That day one came with us after a long debate.
I've found it's way easier to call elk in the direction they are going. It's hard to turn around elk and easier to turn elk towards you. If you hear elk and can get in front of them before calling your odds go way up.
Each situation calls for a different setup in my opinion not one thing works every time and sometimes nothing will work on that elk.. Calling an elk and getting him to respond is great but most of the season they aren't just screaming so you have to get creative you have to peak their interest. I want to have as many cards up my sleeve as I can. Listen to the videos, read the books, practice on elk your going to pass on anyway and see how they react every interaction is an opportunity to learn.
Since I almost always hunt solo and try to hunt herd bulls, I do things differently than if I was in a setup with multiple shooters and callers. The herd bulls don't make much noise during daylight. Satellite bulls and little herd bulls bugle more often, and seem to respond to bugles more readily.
Of course the less pressured and more elk in Limited Draw units the less you have to even use a call as they are very vocal and certainly easier to locate and stalk in on.
In heavy pressure OTC units I mostly toss out a locator bugle to try get a response and then shut up and move towards them using a cow call very selectively more so for keeping track of the bull as in solo hunting ya call to much and they are locked on you wanting to see the 'elk' that is talking---
+1 jaqoumo
Good thread cnelk
Good luck, Robb
99% of my elk huntn has been in one of the most popular units in the most popular OTC state
ElkNut1
I don't think just because you take an experienced hunter and put him in a new area that he suddenly becomes a novice. There certainly could be a bit of a learning curve getting used to a new area, but I think that would be more of getting a feel for the terrain and the elk that live there rather than a new way of calling. Even now, every elk encounter is different, and what worked today may or may not work tomorrow. Whether it's your "home area" or someplace completely new, you still have to be flexible. I've used the term "taking their temperature", and I'm sure most guys do the same thing, even though they may call it something else. The bull will normally let you know what he wants to hear. A bull can be bugling a certain way for a while, but when I finally hit that "magic call", I can tell that I've hit a nerve. The emotion in his bugle changes, and you can literally feel the anger coming out. That's when I know to really start putting the pressure on.
Someone else posted that one of the reasons they don't bugle much is because it calls in other hunters. That's a very good point that I should have mentioned in my post as well. If I hunted an area that wasn't overrun with other hunters, I'd bugle much more than I do now. As it is, I'll give location bugles every so often, but I'll keep them at a minimum. OTOH, once I get a bull going, then all bets are off and I'll bugle as often as I need to, other hunters be damned. I know my areas, so I normally get to the bulls first, then try to make something happen before someone else gets there and screws things up.
In one part of my unit where ML pressure is very heavy and the elk density is relatively low, if a bull bugles, he gets shot. You can hear it happen, pretty predictable. "Bugle - bugle- bugle - BOOM!"
The bulls that survive move around mostly silently, or at least not making much noise during the day. I believe that over the past 30 years that the process of natural (unnatural) selection in that area has favored bulls that don't make much noise during the rut.
Bulls will still come to calls, but they rarely make any noise when they do so, even during the peak of the rut. And they sneak in, taking their time and pausing to watch every few steps.
One side-note: the biologist for this unit told me that the age-class of bulls killed in this unit averages one year older than in most every other unit in CO (other than the super-limited LE units). Draw from that what you will.
I believe that 'elk are elk' and no matter where you hunt them, what you typically use for technique/calling 'should' work but always let the elk determine the barometer of the day.
just my II pennies
The expert to novice comment is an overstatement. A great elk hunter will be successful put anywhere OTC or LE. I was just trying to point out that different areas often have a different "best" tactic. And, yes, there are certainly more than a few ways to be a great elk hunter. My huntn partner, an absolute killer, wouldn't use a call if his life depended on it and he kills bulls every year in the same areas as I do.
Grandson slammed truck door. Elk bugles
Cutting wood with a chainsaw in the forest. Start knocking off limbs with an ax. Elk bugles.
Climbing down a steep slope and start sliding on loose rock. Elk bugles.
Terry
I was around this big herd bull for a week and never heard him bugle during daylight, nor would he pay attention to my bugles or cow calls when I was close to the herd. But that morning he had wandered away from his cows to do recon and was in a different mood.
I have one of those, and 3 of the old antique whistles. Hunting public land in Washington, sounding different than the guys that have been bugling with diaphragms since before the season is a huge advantage for educated bulls.
Calling in many situations to these elk is a "timing situation" You need to be where elk are for the time of day you are hunting. Timing means right place right time. Find the elk first, are they rutting (hot cows) or are they semi passive with little bugling with no cows nearing estrus.
Semi passive elk can be called by playing on their curiosity. Of course there are other ways besides calling that can be very productive, it's mostly situational. Stay versatile & adjust thinking to fit that time frame.
Rutting elk can be called much easier with breeding sequence type calling. This generally will bring in the satellites & not the herd bull, why. This is what brought the satellites there in the first place. These younger bulls are just as interested in action as the herd bulls as they have the same male desires/instincts. When these satellites can hear this activity going on at a distant it can bring them around to scent check the area pinpointing the hot cow or cows. Big bulls will do this too.
Imitating this sequence at the right "time" no matter the state & you will have very good action!
ElkNut1