Or is that stat skewed?
I know a lot of folks who hunt elk every year but seem to only notch there elk tag every few years. Then I know people who get an elk every year with there bow.
I'd say the stats are spot on IMO from my observation!
I don't think that killing an elk is exceptionally difficult, but I think it's one of the easiest species to make more difficult for yourself and a lot of guys do that.
I think it's because a lot of guys come out and hunt them like white tails or with a white tail mindset. Every species has to be hunted on its terms to produce consistency; otherwise, you're just hoping to get lucky.
Also, many are not used to or able to get more than 500 yards from the ATV/truck. Deer hunters are used to animals living everywhere and being able to ride/drive to within a few hundred yards of where they hunt. Whereas, you can walk into a basin that's 10 square miles that possibly doesn't have a single elk in it. And guys will hunt that basin for a week straight and say, "dang, the elk sure are quiet."
There's other factors, of course, like picking good spots, tenacity, hunting OTC units like they're LE/private land instead of hunting them like they're OTC units, etc. But I bet those two reasons account for the majority of guys that go home empty handed in OTC elk units.
Add that up and you have a lot of guys that hunt year in year out and never kill one or only once a decade.
Look at Dwight Schuh. He hunted mule deer for several years and explains that he saw plenty of deer, but never got anything till he started hunting them properly. Hunting, especially bow hunting, is a low-odds-of-success sport. You have to set yourself up to be successful and even then, you might not be. If you don't set yourself up to be successful, you're just hoping to get lucky.
Here in Wyoming, you aren't limited to using one weapon or the other, except for the very few areas that have Type 9 (Archery Only) licenses. Anyone that holds a general license can simply buy an archery license and hunt archery season, then turn around and hunt during the regular (firearm) season. Unlike nonresidents, there's no limit to the number of residents that can buy a general elk license. Needless to say, archery season in general areas is swarming with rifle hunters carrying bows through the woods bugling their head's off. They think that's all it takes, since that's how the Primos boys do it. Except for the occasional elk that happens to run into an arrow, these hunters don't enjoy much success. They do, however, ensure the old saying that "10% of the hunters kill 90% of the elk" is more fact than fiction.
Another factor that keeps the overall success rate down is many long-time successful elk hunters get kinda picky in their old age. Other than an occasional "meat" elk, many simply choose to pass on cows and smaller bulls holding out for a mature bull. This isn't likely to happen year in, year out, so that choice certainly adds to the "tag soup" numbers.
In many areas that % could even be less, in others possibly more. The zone we hunt here in Idaho had over 6,000 applicants the last 5 years running, in that time the statistics show the success rate is 5.9% -- Of course these hunts are all on OTC Public Lands where there is much competition so all 6,000 plus do get tags, in many areas there are more hunters than elk! (grin) But yes the 10% stat would most likely still apply here as the normal guys who show success know how to get it done.
ElkNut1
many state wildlife agency's report success by hunt unit. is it accurate, I don't know.
to expand on this, it would be interesting to compare how many days hunting?
I often wonder if a mandatory registration of success would be beneficial
Most elk hunters do not have the luxury to live in elk country therefore they have about 5-10 days a year to hunt elk. Wet weather or hot days can play a big part where possible days are lost. Others fear a full moon, some confront tons of hunters in their areas. If elk are quiet & not talking much at all then different strategies must be considered, these hunters must make the best of any situation.
A good question here is what does it take to be part of that elite 10% group?
What do those yearly successful hunters attribute their success to?
ElkNut1
If you want to ask questions, start your own thread so you can dominate it yourself.
No need to spew your *%#}%^ on mine
Thanks! Grin
Interesting quote I've heard whether it's success in general or on elk.
As I've been more successful I'm more selective and generally wade through elk until I find the one I want. That's when the hunt really begins. It's difficult because they didn't get big by being dumb and there's usually other elk around them. Translation: I came home empty. But if that big bull only knew how close he was to death...
I may only get one every 3-4 years but i pass on elk every year and have excellent opportunities on herd bulls most years.
10% sounds low if you're willing to take any elk. I wouldn't be happy with that percentage. Lot's of keys to success and for starters hunt where there are elk. Sounds easy.
I'll never take another one week elk trip. Two weeks minimum and more would be better.
ElkNut1
It's still short, I agree. But if you're heading all the way out to elk country and setting up camp, you need to plan better if you're only getting 5 days of hunting in. Two guys can easily drive at night without stopping.
If killing an elk was my primary motivation for going hunting and a major priority in my life, I would use my week of vacation for hunting and be in the woods for 9-10 days in a row. But with young kids and other responsibilities right now, I am happy with getting out into the woods and having a great time in nature. If I kill an elk, it is a bonus...
If I had paid for a nonresident tag and was travelling across the country to hunt elk, it would be different. But I can be at my camp in 2 hours, and there are actually elk within about 15 minutes of my back door, so sometimes that means that it just gets put off, as life and all its other demands get in the way!
For some inexplicable reason the CPW posted archery success rates of 22-23% for the past two years. This was total B.S. and not even the local game warden knows where they got those numbers. I personally only know of one archer who killed an elk last year - a girl on her first bowhunt who killed a cow (I passed up four bulls and a number of cows but didn't kill one).
This season my game warden friend told me they didn't check a single archery elk during the entire season. He and his partners are very active in the area, putting on a lot of miles while checking camps daily. I know of five taken by archers, out of roughly 750 hunters (historical average).
Once again, I passed up several slam-dunks, but did not kill one. I passed one up at 10 yards because I d9idn't want to miss hunting a little honeyhole during the last week. But I hunted all or part of 25 days, hunted hard and covered a lot of ground on foot, bounced my camp many miles from spot to spot, and had very close calls with several big bulls most guys would have shot at, but were out of my range.
It will be REALLY interesting to see what success rate the CPW publishes for this unit this year.
I've averaged close to an elk a year for the past 35 years, so my drive to kill "any" elk every year is not as great as it once was. I suppose I'm one of the 10%'ers. But now I do things for different reasons and it's not as important for me to simply carve another notch, as it is to experience as much time in the elk woods as possible. I can see the end of my hard elk hunting days not far down the road, relatively-speaking.
If I only had a week to hunt and drove a long way, it would definitely be different.
Nothing spoils an elk hunt like killing an elk...
If the goal is truly to manage the resource, then accurate statistics are essential as a foundation to herd management. Personally, I think that every state should have mandatory full reporting on all big game tags as a management tool, not from a standpoint of selfish desire for data research - that's just a nice side effect.
Still, they're probably somewhat accurate if you take a 5 year average or if you cut off the 10th and 90th percentiles.
Again, look at other states. A quick count reveals 7 different states that have at least some form of OTC tag available. Every state has some sort of data collection system and OTC units from the rockies to the coast generally come in between 5 and 15% for archery. There's exceptions on each side of those numbers and they fluctuate due to weather and herd size/movement. I base my opinion not just off of CO's numbers. There's a lot of us who look at the stats for every unit in every state every year.
If you subtract out private land hunters and locals with honey holes who kill every year, I'd guess that your average DIY public land elk hunter who'd take any elk is somewhere around 5% total and 3-8% on average (depending on the unit), possibly less, and there's a lot of guys who kill consistently that are bumping that up a little which leaves a ton of guys who kill an elk every 10-20 years or never (with a bow).
This gets me back to my original post on this thread. You either set yourself up for success by doing most things right or you don't. And most guys don't. Even if you do, as Lou points out, there's no guarantee, which is reflected in the stats.
Go read the "DIY" website forums. A fairly regular thread is the guy who bowhunts elk every year and is 0 or 1 for lifetime.
You talk to them in the field too. It's the group of 4 guys from out of state that come over to look at your bull as you pack out or are in town and none of them tagged an elk. "Nice bull. Where'd you git em? Elk sure are quiet this year. Yeah, my cousin got one last year..." If you've killed elk in an OTC or general unit, you've had this conversation.
I'm not trying to disparage these guys, I'm just pointing out their prevalence. Most, probably >90% of 'any elk, DIY, out-of-state, public land' hunters go home empty-handed.
I have to disagree. Want more huntn? Dont go home. Nothing more fun than hunting elk with friends or solo after tagging out. Just shoot em with the camera. If I plan for a 10 day hunt and kill on day 1 I still never miss a single day. Of course, I'm complely out of my mind
I know that in the last 11 seasons I have killed 9 bulls. I hunt a unit that traditionally has very few elk and a reported unit wide success rate of 5-7% on the archery.
Now I will tell you this, I am not always honest when I get the "Survey". For example the one year I killed on opening morning. Do I really want to report success and a single day? Knowing that they really only take a very limited sample overall and they have no control over which units an OTC tag is used in, I could be 1 of 2 people who hunted in that unit. I could kill they could not and the success all of the sudden is high and the number of days spent were low. Knowing that all of the sudden your unit get crowded.
About 6 years ago this occurred in my unit. They showed a 16% success rate for archery, and they showed low hunter days in the unit. That following year we saw a huge increase in hunters. There were 2 groups one from Iowa and one from Missouri that both selected the unit based on the published stats, Needless to say their 10 days of hunting with 8 guys in 1 camp and 7 in the other resulted in 2 cow elk seen. But in an area where me and maybe 5 guys hunt total, we suddenly had 20 total. The next year the success rate reported dropped 9% down to 7%.
As far as other factors, there are many. How many guys bought a tag and ended up not going, how many just take the time to escape life, how many hunt hard with the goal of killing anything, how many want a big one or nothing, how many have their wife hunting and sacrifice their opportunities for hers, how many decided to take their 5 year old along...
This year my wife and I both got the cow archery tag and the either sex tag. So 4 tags no elk killed = 0%... Last year 2 either sex tags = 1 killed. Prior to that I was 8 for 9 = 88%....
My neighbor hunts every year and in 14 years has killed once. Another good friend hunts every year and since high school (15 years) has killed twice. My step dad has not killed in 15 years, another buddy in WY has killed 3 in 8 years...
Know a few NRs as well who are more on vacation and a camping trip than actually hunting. On a 5 to 7 day trip and sleep in, hang around camp for 2 of them. (or run off and hit the town like a dog off his chain...)
Those things certainly skew the odds a bit in the unsuccessful direction....
EDIT.... what coelker said before me..... =D
The older I get, the more I fall into that line of thinking! However, I'll add a caveat to that..until he's in the freezer. Then it gets fun again!
Once he's getting cold, then I do like otcWill. Head back up for a week or so, call for friends, take photos, and have a few cold ones. Ok, maybe more than a few! lol!
For Colorado OTC, I think this is spot-on. FYI, in CO the "average" days afield per hunter that yields this success rate is 7 days.
Cut's back on my % of success but I am 3 1/2 hours drive back up to hunt later so I normally fill 66% of my 2-3 elk tags/2-3 states.....
I am still content if I end up being in the 90% club every now and then---
Good luck, Robb
How would you hunt elk if all you had was one week? What homework needs to be done and how do I do it being in CT?
thanks
I do wish I had more time and hope too be able to get some extra days as the kids get older.
The main thing is to learn a few basic calls, get in great shape, do homework on the different state websites and interactive maps, narrow down an area, call the biologist, study Google Earth and forest maps, topo maps, figure out access, go hunting for a minimum of two weeks.
I have an article coming out in a couple months about this very thing - elk hunting for eastern whitetail hunters. I got input from some guys like you, who are now elk slayers.
Calling, stalking, and killing whitetails (and elk) from the ground with a bow is a whole different deal than sitting in a tree waiting for something to come to a food plot. A lot of eastern guys get out west and are overwhelmed.
When was the last time a turkey busted you as he circled down wind ??
Oh yeah... Usually a few feet before an elk gets my wind if I'm trying to kill him...He gets a easton infection
The majority of those who are successful are locals who get to spend way more time hunting and patterning the elk they hunt. Very few Joe-Shmo flat land hunters go home with any meat in the cooler. Those that do, either REALLY did their homework, or got lucky and were in the right place at the right time, or knew a local who gave up a honey hole (and they were in the right place at the right time).
The 10-90 rule was mentioned earlier, and I truly think it's one of the more valid percentages in our sport/passion. It may actually be closer to 5-95, with 5% of the hunters killing 95% of the elk.
Nothing against flat landers (I'm one of them). But if you just pick a unit based on the percentages, and don't do your homework and find areas that actually hold elk, then know how to get into those elk without chasing them out of the unit and ruining it for everyone else, you're just a cash cow. The states love you, the bow manufacturers love you, clothing and pack manufacturers love you. Because you're all walking around with the latest bow and the newest clothes and gear. Have a great vacation in the mountains!
Or start really doing your homework...
flatlanders like myself can only do very little effective "homework" from google earth and talking to wildlife people from 1000 miles away
I didn't start killing elk until a) I started hunting areas that held elk-duh and b) I spent numerous seasons figuring out the likely places elk would be within those areas. Google earth and phone calls to wildlife officials were very close to worthless compared to boots on the ground.
If you need to check the yard before going outside, you might be in elk country.