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I always pack in solo my significant others always worry - and the PLB=safety line just seems to piss them off more:)

Which do you think is safest for the worst case scenario? By how much?

When I was guiding and my hunter had a massive heart attack on the mountain, I had no PLB or anything else to reach out. I had his adult son, who was like one of the Three Stooges, and was no help. I don't think quicker response would have saved his life, but in a different circumstance, it might.

I ALWAYS carry a SPOT with me now, whether hiking, fishing, scouting, or hunting. 99% of my hunting and adventuring is solo, so having that as a safety line gives me and my wife some peace of mind.

Anyway Deaths are very rare why hunting. My guess is 90% of the time it's a leg injury that's going to put you in danger.. Being that I most of the time hunt with a partner,,"but" do venture off many of times on our own.. I say the plb is your best bet.. Even if your with a partner and you get hurt bad enough that you need that partner. It's best that he stays with you and help comes to you, if your hurt that bad..

Ed

Ps,, anyone know what most back country injury's are, that help is needed???

Consider both the device & a hunting partner & your bases are covered!

I mention hunting partner as the choice if you had to choose one because you never know the extent of what an emergency may call for. I've been involved in several instances where a PLB or similar device would not have helped out,such things as a broken leg or something where you still have your faculties together can aid you as you await help with the PLB.

I've been in several spots where a hunter stabbed himself very seriously while breaking down an elk where bleeding had to be stopped immediately. These wounds can be in such awkward spots that the wounded individual could have serious difficulty in reaching the wound to wrap up & stop bleeding. One was my son when he was 18, scared me half to death as we were several miles in & his knife slipped through the elks hide & into the back of his right leg. Blood gushed like nothing I'd ever seen. My son was in a slight panic & I rushed through my pack getting out gauze & anything I could find to stop the bleeding.

I'm no doctor but I got it slowed down with gauze & flagging tape & I mean lots of it! The knife went in aprox 4" -- He could no way get out of there without my help, It took us hours to do so but got him out with him hanging on to me & straight to a hospital an hour or so away. We let the bull lay where he was & I returned later that day to take care of him with help.

In another instance I was in OR calling for another hunter/friend. (first time I'd met this guy) On the 1st day out we had gone about a mile & a half in from our rig at daylight. I noticed he had lagged behind me a bit but just figured he wasn't in too good a shape although he appeared to be in excellent shape. We moved in deeper to the 2 mile depth & really could tell he had slowed a bunch. We stopped & rested & I teased him a bit about not being able to keep up with this old guy! (grin) He said he'd felt funny but I just figured it was an excuse.

After about 3 miles in through some fairly rugged terrain & heavily timbered country I looked back at him & holy cow his entire face was swollen & it had a very red rash with these bumps all over his face & arms. It all happened in minutes! I looked at him in shock as he slumped to the ground & was breathing like he was having contractions. I rushed to his side trying to find out what the hell was happening here, he was 40 so I didn't think heart attack but knew he wasn't taking another step right then.

I got as much water in him as I could & he told me he was completely zapped of energy in a mumbling voice. I had no idea what was wrong? We sat there for 20 minutes or so & he said he could walk some. I loaded his pack on top of mine & his bow & tried helping him walk, we made it aprox 40 yards & down he went, we did this a 1/2 dozen times & he was completely delirious as to where he was & what he was doing. This really scared me to tell you the truth.

After several attempts to get him out I told him to stay put & I'd head back to the rig & get help, he pleaded with me not to leave him, god I felt bad, I was in a real quandary here. I decided to stay with him & get him out. This was about 10 a.m. & we got out an hour before dark, what a freaking day that was. I'm glad I did not leave him alone to get help, I honestly felt he was so delirious that he would have moved many times in who knows what direction & that would have been difficult to find him even if he did have a PLB.

If I would have had one there I would have used it right then & there! So having a PLB unit & a friend may be a great choice!

ElkNut1

If it were an instant death, no partner or device would save me. If I am severely hurt and conscious, I will activate a device. (I have an InReach). Different technology than PLB, but you get the point.

Technology will mobilize professional responders in the shortest amount of time without adding the emotional burden to my friend. If your partner finds you, he/she will still need to hike out and get help (Which adds response time), or activate technology to get you out. (Which you could have done on your own and now you have added circumstances to your partner also) If you are using a partner as a safety crutch and things went way south for you on a hunt, their hunt is destroyed also.

In thinking about your question Don, I think about the things that would likely be the source of life/death. This past fall, a hunter in ID was tracking an elk and snapped his leg. He spent 3+ days dragging himself until he was finally found. Would have a partner saved him? Yup. Would have technology saved him? Yup. Will technology fail you? Sometimes. Will your partner find you? Maybe.

Other situations such as predators I don't worry about too much. I have situational awareness and take preventative measures. If I mountain lion wanted to jump me, no partner or or PLB will keep him from snapping my neck. In the case of a grizz and I cannot deploy my pepper spray fast enough, buddy would not be able to shoot any faster than I can flip the safety and deploy spray rom my hip. A partner could shoot or spray it if it were chewing on me, assuming he was in a position for a clear shot. But this assumes he and I and were hunting together and he was very close. Statistically, how many times does this situation happen in a year? (I will bet I could count on one hand). How many hunters are hurt or killed driving to from a hunt? I will bet more than any predator.

Sorry, someone must have said squirrel and I veered left!

Good question to ponder Don! (And I apologize for the soapbox speech. It is the off season and we have too much time!)

Also, when I'm hunting solo I never leave the PLB. It's always in my pack but for some reason if I need to stalk an animal without my pack...I take it out and put in my pocket (tethered to a belt loop). It only takes a few seconds to do it. My reasoning is if I break a foot...again or leg and I'm a few hundred yards from my pack the PLB is useless!

ElkNut1

In Reach works off of Iridium satellite constellation. (Not ground based) So yes it will work in places cell phones won't.

I bought it for same reasons as others noted above. It also has an SOS button if your in deep trouble. (If I remember it contacts a 24/7 center who direct S&R) I have not been all over the world, but my research found guys using it in lower 48 and Alaska w/o issue.

I went this route also because I can go month to month and no annual subscription needed. (In my case, I activated it for August and Sept for a scouting and hunting trip) Less than $100 for piece of mind for me and my family is worth it.

Dang it, there goes that squirrel again!

ElkNut1

Peace of mind as taught daughter to use SPOT and now Delorme. "if daddy falls and cracks his head open, push SOS and someone will come rescue you".

InReach batter lasts long time. I only turn on/off when I want to send or check something. Lasts week plus easy. Even if used 30-min each day, that 10-hour charge would last 20-days. I doubt I even have it on that much per day. You can force it to "check messages" any time you turn it on, so you'll know within a minute or two whether someone tried to send you a message.

Monthly charge for Delorme is more than SPOT, but you can do it as an ala carte and only turn on for months you need it.

I would turn mine on at night, check in and turn off. Checked in a few times during the hunt also. (My daughters boyfriend was going to propose while I was in the field. Good boy and asked for my permission before I left!) I had 88% battery on day 9 when I packed out.

Pushing a button isn't going to solve any immediate problems of course.

I'm looking for an alternate to sat phones as they don't work so well down in those canyons...i'm hoping garmin comes up with something.

If I really cared about communicating with anyone I'd add a sat phone over an Inreach or Spot so I could actually communicate in real time. My wife is very used to times when I'm hunting and out of reach for days and I'm very at home comfortable and careful when I'm out there especially if I'm alone for the day. If I had young kids I may feel differently.

I wouldn't say I'm over confident but once you pull strings of mules through the mountains in the middle of the night for awhile walking along on your own 2 feet seems pretty safe. The key is to never panic. That and realizing we are all going to die at some point. I guess at that point though I'd want some kind of device to be able to make it semi live so you all knew what actually happened.

:-)

The one place where I might prefer a partner over an SOS button would be if I collapsed totally and needed CPR. But then, unless he was right there, he wouldn't know it happened and probably wouldn't find me. I was right there with my guided hunter, and still couldn't save him with CPR.

I feel like the comprehensive survival/first aid kit that's with me all the time will allow me to live until the EMTs arrive if I don't panic and haven't done something like slice a major artery. If that happened a buddy would only be useful to hear my final goodbyes. That's why I also have a small pen and paper in my kit...

My wife may worry a little bit when I'm over due. But she knows if anything is seriously wrong I'd push the button. For communicating with her, I use a phone. Usually find service somewhere.

I use the SPOT year round and have advised my wife that this could happen. But definitely an advantage to the InReach that allows you to text, "I'm ok, just found some other guy with a broken leg" so nobody worries about you and scrambles to reach a trailhead to be there when they haul you out.

I know some of the spots i'm thinking of in the backcountry a helo cannot land. I would think it might take rescue folks a while to get to you in a lot of areas.

My plb is ALWAYS in my right knee pocket of my sitka pants. My sitka pants are always on except at night and they are (you guessed it) by my right knee in my tent.

Obviously both is best - but I have a very difficult time finding someone willing to do the hunts I do - and often times only 1 tag available anyway!

I am not familiar with new gadgets that let you text, I have a resQ. NOTE many do NOT do the same thing as a plb. I know the SPOT used to (might still) not do the same thing - notify same people as a plb.

Also a PLB has no annual fee, they are small and well worth it. I only worry about the burden on search and rescue in years to come as they get more popular. $250 is 1/4 the price of most NR elk tags!

a PLB in my pack and a contractor garbage bag, firestarter, emergency bivy (like a space blanket but a bivy - TINY and $15!), white trash bag and common sense let me go after elk miles away in the opposite direction of camp with 1 hour of light - knowing worst case I siwash.

Be safe!

My PLB is a FastFind Ranger which is ultra small, light and superbly simple. I've checked into the InReach and it looks like a great unit, but I don't want the subscription thing and sending text messages is not important for me. I want my PLB battery to be fully charged and ready to go, especially when I'm alone in the backcountry of Alaska or Canada. To me a PLB is the equivalent of a pilot's eject button. It's there if disaster hits, but I'm not touching it otherwise.

A good partner offers things you simply cannot measure. I think margin-of-safety is far better with a partner as long as they are experienced and understand how to proceed in the event of an incident. Some partners would be a useless as ti....never mind. When 2 guys are well-matched and both have safety in mind, there is a level of comfort there not offered by any electronic device.

I was alone in Alaska back in September. I carried a PLB in my pocket every single day. My pack held an Iridium satellite phone. The nearest human was a long way from my mountain pass. Good thing I had both, but that's another story for another time.

Comparing "off the shelf" capabilities of a PLB versus the abilities of the average available partner, the only instances when a partner would be more useful would be if there were a loss of consciousness or arterial bleeding.

Now, if stated unquantified partner is a paramedic steeped in SAR protocols, I'd like to have that person around. Of course, were that the case, he/she would have a PLB. :)

The other thing is coverage. The InReach and Spot might work flawlessly down here... I don't know because I've never used either. But in Alaska I have heard of guys getting marginal coverage or none and having messages delayed for substantial periods. For that reason I prefer the PLB which uses a totally different sat system than the other two. Especially for the times I am hunting somewhere really remote which is when it can count most.

I have used both in remote Canadian hunts, way off the grid. While either one could have summoned 911 or other help, I have never needed it (thankfully!). Between the 2, the InReach is the better unit for 2 reasons: 1) can do actual texts (send & receive); and 2) you only pay for the timeframe you want. I pay for 2 months of service and then cancel when its not hunting season.

Anyone want to buy a SPOT?

>>>>-------->

I switched from SPOT to InReach as well. I really like being able to receive texts, with three young kids at home who knows what can happen that I need to know about.

I also have a SPOT Gen 1 available for $50 if someone wants to buy it.

I'd guess bruised ego, broken vagina, or tear gland fatigue.

I try to explain my plb to deaf ears.

The age old men think with logic and woman think with emotion!

If you'd married one of your hunting buddies you wouldn't have a problem.

Here is a good article on the differences in the sat networks used by each type of device. Like I mentioned above... if you are only in the lower 48 either is fine. But for more remote places such as the far north there's a difference.

I have talked to people who had problems using SPOT devices. After reading this article it seems clear that the InReach which uses the Iridium network is superior to SPOT which uses Globalstar.

But the ResQlink and similar PBRs which use the COSPAS/SARSAT network are definitely superior. From the article: "This satellite constellation is the largest and most complete, and is essentially military."

We're talking about your life here not just "Hi honey I'm fine."