I see most hunters do not! They have this idea in their heads because of Internet chatter that they should bugle very little these days & not to bugle at all if the bulls aren't talking themselves! This is the time to bugle more on the those days! It's the quickest way to find elk especially in newer areas.
When elk are rutting they are bugling on their own so less bugling is required on the hunters part for location!
Do you bugle enough?
ElkNut1
Most hunters do not! They would do themselves much better if they did! Some will say they hunt pressured areas, heck we all do! (grin) When this is the case choose your times & places wisely to locate elk, works every year! Thanks!
ElkNut1
Stealth is my friend when it comes to elk.
I bugle when the time is right.
Best Wishes, Jeff
Andy, you must be a very good caller, nice! We run into that once in a while but do our best to stay away from other hunters. Like you we will either go deeper or find a new area. Either way it's not a big deal.
One thing that helps us avoid hunters is not using trails or roads of any kind as entrance points. This really cuts down on hunter activity when we enter the woods where few others would even consider it!
ElkNut1
Are you calling every two hours, every 15 minutes?
Are you calling every tenth of a mile as you hike, or every half mile?
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>>>>------ :( ------>
"I walk in ever widening concentric circles around camp at 100yard intervals. Depending on how many elk I've killed at the 5 mile mark, I'll start working my way back to camp, again, in concentric circles at 100 yard intervals. There are usually elk that have worked their way back into my 5 mile circle, which is actually 10 miles in diameter, 87 miles in circumference, or 62.6 miles in area (3.14 sq. x 7 sq. plus dangled angle and squared hair = 66.2 miles, just in case you want to check the math) Elk now inside the circle begin to panic as the realize they are now in a deadly trap. They become easy prey as the circle tightens. I've killed most of my big Bulls right around the 3/4 mile mark on the return circle part of my morning.
For this method to be effective and legal, you must hunt deep within your unit, so as not to cross the unit boundaries and get yourself in deep dudu."
Andy, 60 times a minute sounds about right. Nothing gives me more satisfaction than constantly announcing my presence. Makes it easier for all my fellow hunters to come and join my adventure!
On born and raised outdoors I once saw a 15 second bugle while spinning in a circle. Sure seemed like a more effective locator.
Elknut may teach me something and I'm willing to listen. Wading through all the crap many of you are spewing onto this thread exemplifies why many of the "old timers" have left the Bowsite or rarely post.
As another mentioned, I tend to stay quiet and use stealth. Some of it is that I am not confident in calling and some if it is that I (perhaps mistakenly) feel that I'm better off not attracting attention to myself or my location.
But I confess to having a lot of days in the elk woods when I don't hear a thing. Perhaps bugling on my part would help these situations.
Carl
Last year I bugled a few times in one area, but it seemed like the Bulls kept staying away from it. And of course they were acrossed a fence line out of the unit when they did bugle back! Haha I'm going to check out your products elknut. I'm up for any advice I can get.
Bugling is fun but when I stopped talking to elk and started hunting them (when I hear a bugle I close the distance hard and fast) I started being successful.
So yes I do bugle enough...
When trying to locate, I'll probably bugle once every 10 or 15 min. It also tends to give me an idea if there are other hunters in the area as they will often respond, so I suppose it accomplishes two things at once.
Sometimes, in high pressure areas, I'll do a "quiet" bugle first where I cover the end of the grunt tube. It tends to get better responses from pressured elk since these elk tend to do the same thing. They'll often not stop bugling in these types of areas, just maybe bugle not as loud, and maybe can only be heard a couple of hundred yds or so. I think they do this when calling to their cows too since no need to broadcast to the world.
Anyway, I'm interested in how often you bugle Elknut. I have a feeling you are on the higher end of bugles per hour like myself, but I'll let you clarify.
If a hunter chooses not to call for his reasons that's fine, I'm just sharing info for those who want to know how to quickly find elk & hunt them through calling. It also helps you to know if elk are in the area you plan to hunt that day. Bugle an hour or so before light & you'll know in many cases if elk are there, nothing written in stone but as long as the distance is great you will not bother a thing! Don not keep bugling once a response is had.
I brought up this thread because there are so many that do not call much & when the situation & areas are right it's something good to incorporate in Running & Gunning hunts as well as trying to find elk in the area they are at present. Many let golden opportunities slip away yearly because they feel if bulls aren't bugling then neither should they! The Internet is full of guys that will say Do Not Bugle! Why, in many cases it's because they are not good at it & lack the confidence to bugle because they fear they will run elk off! -- If a golfer cannot hit a driver straight should he leave it in his bag for life or should he work his problem out on the range???
Sure if you go at it haphazardly this can happen. Doing it right & at the right time & place is as important as picking a great stand location being aware of an animals approach & wind direction so you are not winded!
Calling from the right areas according to the time of day can be equally important! If you are calling near bedding areas at daylight there's a good chance the elk are not there yet! -- If calling in feeding/watering areas after 9a.m. there's a good chance elk have already left! If calling to elk while in transition, between feeding & bedding & they continue to move off don't mistake this from them running from you, it's more along the lines that they are on their way to their destination so are on the move, yet they can take the time to bugle back to you in the process.
Ones who feel calling to elk isn't effective generally is a result of not being able to call many elk themselves or have had bad experiences with bugling, guess what, we all started there & worked out the quirks, we stay with what works & avoid the things that don't!
My son & I along with the 3 others in the crew have brought in well over a thousand bulls to bowrange through the avenue of calling! We've called in as many cows as well. We do all this DIY on OTC Public Lands & for the last 22 years in wolf country & have taken a staggering # of elk. We've also called in plenty of elk in non wolf country.
Thing is when used right & in the right settings bugling can be a powerful tool for you as well. We use both Location Bugles & Advertising Bugles. What's the difference between the two? Advertising has an increased intensity to create excitement into ones tones over the high pleasing note you would use in a location bugle. We generally reserve the Advertising bugles for large open areas where sound can travel greater distances if the Location bugle isn't getting responded too.
How often we call depends on the country. Too, are the bulls bugling on their own? Are they fairly quiet? When bulls are rutting & bugling on their own there is little reason for us to bugle our way to them, we'd rather go in unannounced & take them by slipping in, if calling is needed then we will determine that as we close the distance.
We will call much more when the elk are bugling little or not at all. At these times we are known to bugle 25-50 times a day, why, because we want to find them, all it takes is one response & it's game on. I would rather do this that just walk around aimlessly & accidentally bumping elk out of our way, in most cases elk will say something before this happens.
We do our best to use the lay of the land to choose our spots to call from so we have a good chance of hearing a bugle back. We also choose areas to hunt where there is little to no access through gated roads or trail systems, these are people magnets! Most these areas are not that far from roads but most hunters shy away from them due to rugged terrain.
The more open the country the more we will bugle loudly & with authority from spots where we do not stand out, it's no place for small bull squeals here. You want to be like a real bull here. No bull goes out to locate or advertise himself thinking I need to sound small here so I don't run other elk off! (grin) They don't do it & neither should we. In this open area we could bugle up to a dozen times if we really feel elk are within earshot! In thicker country where sound travels we will bugle aprox every few hundred yards, this is especially so in unfamiliar country. At these times we are only trying to "find them" not call them in. When in our old haunts we have spots where we head to, to call from because we have a good idea where these elk hangout if they are there for that time of the day!
Most of bugling ceases around 11 a.m.-- On cloudy/rutting days it could be longer. There are times we do bugle midday but it all depends on what type of action we were in earlier that morning & what the winds are doing. We will generally pick up the bugling again around 5:30 p.m. till dark.
I realize this isn't for everyone but for those who want to find elk quicker so they can hunt them you may want to consider to polish up your bugling! (grin) It's worked very well for us & this is why I recommend it to others! Good bugling is part of hunting smart!
ElkNut1
I appreciate your threads Paul, keep 'em coming!
Here's a photo of an area as I mentioned that I would start at. It's an old skid road where I'm at here taking the photo. It's about 45 min to get up to that rock saddle. I would get up on it & bugle & hope to get a response to get a direction, if nothing continue walking bugling both sides. Good chance sooner or later it will payoff! Day of Sept. won't matter much, I've had elk bugle back all times of Sept there. I do like mid month & later best though.
ElkNut1
ElkNut1
I decided to just answer it each time he bugled. So for next 50 minutes he bugled every 5-8 minutes. When he did I answered. In that time I bugled 8-10 times and never moved an inch. I was not trying to pull the distant bull in I just wanted other bulls to know this was my side of the drainage.
After almost an hour I was thinking my plan was not working and moved the last 150 yards up to top of the ridge when from just over the top I heard 3 chuckles. Another bull was coming. As I started sneaking towards the chuckles, the distant bull sounded off. I answered just as I had been doing for the last hour. This time, the approaching bull bugled. Two minutes later he was raking a tree at 26 yards.
This story would be better if I could tell you I shot the bull, but never got a clear shot. By 8 am I had bugled around a dozen times and had only covered few hundred yards since the Sun had come up. I don't know if that ranks as too much, but on this particular day, it worked.
Jethro, sounds pretty good to me! (grin) Looks like you did everything right! Having a bull at 26 yards was nicely done, unfortunately the shot didn't happen but that's elk hunting! (grin)
-- If interested why those two other bulls came your way & not to the 1st bull (herd bull) it was because you were advertising yourself & they had no idea who you were by your sound, they knew who the herd bull was! Your bugling can bring bulls to you to see where you may fit in the pecking order! When that bull came in to the point he started raking he was showing you who he was, he wanted you to do the same, he didn't necessarily want to fight he wanted to size you up or check out the competition so to speak for when cows start to come into estrus. He could have stopped & raked that same tree if you would have cow called him instead of bugled him, why, to show off to her & encourage you to come his way!
Your bugling at that time is the very reason we use the Advertising Sequence as a good method to pull bulls to us especially when in a lazy mood, it takes time as they make their way to you. Stay patient & be willing to hold that same spot for up to an hour when you know bulls are in the area! You can add raking & mix up the length & tone of your bugling, no need to have every bugle be predictable sounding, nice work sir! You'll be trying that one again! (grin)
I will add that in many cases if you have no shot as the bull is close & raking that that's a good time to slowly re-position to get a window to shoot through! It has worked for me many times!
ElkNut1
So I finally decided to pay their camp a visit and suggest that maybe he should knock it off and practice in the off-season.. Headed down the hill and finally spotted him.... Along with the rest of the herd.
Was a spike, not even old enough to get kicked out by the herd bull (or his dam, for that matter).
Wont say I could have closed the deal, but with a slower approach and some time with the binocs, I could at least have gotten a lot closer...
CO public land in a hard-hunted unit.
Just sayin'.....
Was a little down about not getting the shot. It worked out though. The very next day got my first. Hunting that day with my buddy, he called him in and I shot him at about 15 yards as we knelt together behind a pine.
On this particular trip bugling was the key. Cow calls were almost useless but we did see guys driving around cow calling from their trucks. One guy who was using this method said he killed 3 bulls the previous year doing the same thing from the same roads. All 5x5s so maybe it works on some smaller bulls some of the times.
Dam straight you were. I was happy to reward you by allowing you to carry out half the meat.
The little calf that came into me is the only action/response to cow calls that I remember on this trip. Lots of action with bugles
Good stuff guys, use what's working at the time. Looks like the results were proof enough!
Jethro, chuckling symbolizes an invite or come on over here! The opposite is harsh hair raising grunts that can be used for intimidation or warning! Nice work again on your guys success!
As a note to many reading these accounts & when to bugle. Note in most cases there are not hunters surrounding us. Just like the 1st photo I shared, look where I'm heading over the rock saddle. There are no trails or other roads over that direction so I'm very confident there are no other hunters around. Most areas we do a lot of bugling or a Contact/Estrus Buzz on high volume for location there are few to no hunters around or in the area some may camp, we choose our spots carefully. I'm sure the same applies to those that are sharing their experiences here as well. Thanks guys!
ElkNut1
In thicker treed or brushy country (like photo above) I may call every few hundred yards & cast my bugle in the direction it may carry the farthest, generally no more than twice each time. During these bugling spots I rarely add growls chuckles or grunts, I don't concern myself with these as the elk are usually to far off to hear them anyway! (grin) I like a high controlled piercing note with one or two notes, it generally does the trick in receiving responses.
As far as running & gunning goes we are not setting up! We are calling at the times mentioned & await a response for a couple minutes & continue to move on trolling for elk if nothing responds. We only setup if we come across very fresh sign or hear a single bugle but he will not respond again. This is where we would incorporate an Advertising Sequence or method , we move in & do our best to get within 175 yards or a hair closer, no closer than that is needed! Your setup should be one where incoming elk must be in search mode & have to come to bowrange before he can see the source of the calling, this can avoid a hangup! Remember, this is for bulls that you feel are around or you've heard a single bugle! Staying up to an hour is important here during your calling sequence, you do not need any cow sounds in this method!
Picking your spots to bugle means we are calling from areas that will benefit us the most as we try & cover as much real estate as possible with our bugling in our search. It's common for us to take a break around noon to 2:30 or so in elevated areas so we can sit quiet & listen to see if elk will talk on their own giving us a direction. We generally will bugle here 6-8 times before take a break & relax, you never know when a bull will come slipping in silent. Some days it works some days the elk stay quiet. Sitting water or trails leading to water in those times can also be good. We will generally pick up our bugling again around 5:30 p.m. till dark. It's common to travel 6-10 miles a day in doing so, so be in shape! (grin)
If we get into a very good looking area where sounds travel a great distance we may bugle a dozen times from there as we stay fairly hidden so we are not spotted as we bugle. If you're not calling you're not trying! I will also mention that if no response is received in these vast areas we continue walking & calling & do not go into these bowls or drainage's, no need to, we are looking for vocal elk!
Here I am bugling into this basin with with other mountains surrounding it, I will call at least a 1/2 dozen times from there if needed. Sometimes bulls will cut you off before your 1st bugle is done, other times it's your last bugle before a response is heard. You just never know!
ElkNut1
On this trip it was dependent on how the elk were talking. Sometimes we wouldn't bugle for hours on end or only in strategic viewing locations. On the days the elk were bugling we were covering ground and would bugle frequently as well. We figured out after day 2 cow cows weren't working even though bulls were in the area.
Thanks!!!!
Realistically, I cannot think of the last time I was fooled by a hunter representing an elk, it's been so many years ago? When you've heard so many of both over the years there are tell tale signs that set them apart. -- True elk do not all sound alike, different ages have a different sound as well as their mood for the phase of the rut at that time.
Hunters have certain traits they fall into, one is calling with the same tone & cadence everytime! Too, many hunters follow their bugles with chuckles or grunts, most are not very good & are easy to tell apart from a real bull. Many hunters will follow a bugle they hear with cow calling, that's another dead giveaway. We do our best to separate ourselves from other hunters so this helps quite a bit knowing there are most likely none around us! The toughest bugles to decipher are immature bugles, sometimes we need to hear them two or three times but it's rare. All in all we can generally tell a real bull from a hunter & whether it's most likely a herd bull or satellite we are hearing.
The message being sent by the real bull is most important to us in what's happening or what's on their mind, this tells us quickly what kind of bull we are dealing with & how we need to tailor our calling to fit that encounter.
ElkNut1
Or the guys sitting in one spot bugling every 30 seconds.
I'm not saying don't bugle....the scenarios you mention Paul are appropriate. I do think the elk can nail you as a hunter in the above cases.
I guess the difference in thought with your concerns is that those road hunters have little effect on where I'm going to hunt for the day. I have no issues with guys that want to drive & call from their vehicles, doesn't bother me at all. It actually helps me to know where I'm not going to start my hunt! (grin) It doesn't matter if elk are in their areas or not, I just move on to places that are void of road hunters.
I have several areas that I hunt that are within a mile from a dirt road where bugling from the road cannot be heard, they are very good spots that some of those elk get pushed into by the road hunters, these elk are still very callable.
I will also mention that many of the elk we contact are well before daylight from roads. We are not calling these elk to us we are just locating them & then going to them, it seems to work very well for us, we don't do it everyday but when we do it works great! I don't own an ATV but I would with no issues.
ElkNut1
I've had guys working the same bull i was on cranking on a cow call non stop...i mean constant. In both of those scenarios, do they really think this sounds natural?
I think its important that if you are going to call...you have to have a plan.
Bingo! As swede pointed out in his previous post, there isn't a "one size fits all" when it concerns hunting elk, let alone calling. In answer to the OP's original question "Do you bugle enough?", the answer is yes. HOWEVER, my answer is relative to the area I hunt.
In Elknut's first photo, he says he's confident that once he gets to the top of that ridge there won't be any other hunters. Great. Heck, if I was in a place like that I'd bugle more too! Absolutely nothing to lose and everything to gain. Fact is, where I hunt is the exact opposite. First off, it's thick as heck. When you see elk, they're close. And then there's the roads/trails. They're literally everywhere. It's hard to find any one place that's more than a half-mile from one. The further you get from one, the closer you get to the other. Not only do hunters constantly use those roads, there are camps scattered throughout the area as well. No such thing as a trailhead. As others have noted, these elk have been conditioned through the years by multitudes of "hunters" riding up and down roads on their atv's, or in their trucks, bugling their fool head's off...engine running, truck stops, bugle...nothing, door slams, truck drives off. Add in the guys tromping through the woods, bugling every 3 steps,...well, you get the picture. These elk aren't stupid. Bugle too much, unless you're right on top of them, and they shut up. Period. That's not internet chatter, that's fact. Don't get me wrong. I give out location bugles now and then from certain strategic locations, but I use more low volume squeals and mews BY FAR.
Now there's a big difference between trying to locate a bull and what I do once he's located. Once I get inside a bull's comfort zone, all bets are off. I'll do whatever it takes to get him pissed and commit to coming in. Doesn't matter if it's challenge bugles, squeals, tree raking, foot stomping, or anything else I need to do. At that point, I'll take my chances with attracting other hunters.
As Beendare posted, you have to have a plan. A wise hunter uses the plan that works best for the area he's hunting. If using lots of location bugles works best for someone in the areas he hunts, then that's certainly what he should use. OTOH, there are those that hunt areas where that tactic is the absolute worst thing you could do. Has nothing to do with not being proficient at calling, or being afraid to do so. It has everything to do with having that "plan" for the areas you hunt and executing that plan.
It doesn't mean I do not call in these areas because I do I'm just a bit more selective at my times & places!
I would certainly entertain the idea of researching out less pressured areas when using a Running & Gunning style of elk hunting.
ElkNut1
Which is exactly what some of us are pointing out. Again, all part of knowing the areas we hunt and having a plan.
Elknut, good thread with some very informative contributions.
Like myself, and I'm sure many on here are doing is putting ones self in situations that relate to what is being said pro & con about the frequency of where and when it's appropriate to bugle.
Where we hunt in WY is pretty much as wyobullshooter described - so his input is also of interest to me - lots of trails - the difference is we don't see very many other hunters - thank goodness.
Most of what I've done is cow call - like what has been said - I'm a bit nervous (lack of confidence) about bugling.
This year I'll "break the glass" and throw out some bugles.
Funny, all last summer into the early fall I practiced with the bugle - up until my wife had enough - then I never even carried it with me in the woods.
Travis from WRO placed 3rd in the Worlds a few weeks ago and I cant wait to get his bugle and use it!
I used the blue bugle in the exposed manner to prove a point just as I showed that ones choice of camo or pack does not matter to an elk! I used that blue one an example to show it was not going to make any difference in ones elk hunt because of blue or any other color. No elk should even see it, if they do we are already in trouble regardless of the bugle color. We took 6-7 bulls that year, I used that exact bugle the entire month! As WapitiBob mentions, it's too late once the bull is that close! It's movement that can ruin an encounter not the colors on your person!
Yes elk can see the color blue as well as white & black, none of the three are obtrusive to elk, it does not run them off it just means they can see the color, there is no alarm in any of the three! 10 years ago this was brought up & I shared a dozen field photos with elk on the ground where we were wearing blue jeans to blue plaid long sleeve shirts. (old days) Hunters need to focus more on their hunting skills than their apparel! (grin)
Wyobull, your thoughts had already been covered up above. We hunters including myself need to use common sense during our hunts. This means we know when & where we can call without lowering our odds of success! Some of those spots to increase our odds are right there on dirt roads, you can bugle in specific areas & receive a response, this gives us a starting point. Never underestimate the power of a bugle while many hunters are still sleeping away! (grin) Thanks!
ElkNut1
Inshart, practice makes perfect, you'll do just fine! As a sidenote, wives seem to never get used to being wowed with our "sound of music" (big grin)
ElkNut1
That said some of you guys act like junior high girls with your little snide passive aggressive comments. Grow up
Great comment "junior high school girls". I just can't believe what some people will say, on the "net".
I have read a lot of Pauls posts on here and other sites. He has always been helpful, never pushed to sell anything. His love of elk hunting is obvious, he just wants to help other enjoy it like he does.
Some of these people need to grow up.
Post, like the negative ones above, are why I quit frequenting these sites. What a shame, I let idiots likes these guys drive me away. No more. Quit bashing people. If this gets me banners, so be it. Enough!!!!
Toby
Be the bull Danny.
Toby, great to see you make a stand! No reason in the world to leave a site because of a few. There's so many great guys here to glean solid info from, hang in there sir!
swede, I agree with sharing various viewpoints, right from the top it was mentioned that there's more than one way to skin an elk! (grin)
With the varying terrain & hunting conditions/pressure we need to adapt to that for sure as Wyobull mentions. When we find ourselves in areas with few hunters certainly consider locating elk in the area through bugling.
With so many new elk hunters joining the ranks every year many have this very question, should they bugle or not? It doesn't matter how remote they are but they feel by them bugling they will chase elk off, why, because of hunting sites & TV elk hunts. If elk are running from your bugle you are being seen or winded in many cases. In other situations you may have a bugling bull & you start bugling your way to him, this is an error on the hunters part, this needs to be avoided especially when there's a single bull bugling.
With multiple bulls bugling at the same time & area then a hunter can get away with bugling & moving towards these elk but why would you be bugling at this time & distance when these bugling bulls are already giving away their location? This is a time to move in silently with good wind & get position as you pick ONE elk out & attempt a stalk on him!
So, in a nutshell, if elk are bugling on their own there's no need to try & locate with your own bugling just to hear yourself bugle!(grin) If elk are not bugling then this is the time to escalate your bugling or calling of some sort trying to arouse elk within earshot to give away their position. Of course being mindful of other hunters around could dictate volume & intensity of ones bugling. Use common sense in choosing these spots to call from.
I will say that it's quite common for us to bugle for location with other hunters around, if we hear another hunter call back we simply move the opposite direction & move on, we are looking for that vocal bull, if one responds we get on him quickly, if nothing responds within a few minutes we continue to move on covering as many hills & drainage's as needed, doesn't matter how many miles it takes we keep moving in search of bulls! This is a running & gunning style.
Yes, there are other ways to hunt elk successfully but there's not many things that can replace the adrenaline rush a bugling bull can instill in you as he comes in hot! It will make you feel alive! (grin)
ElkNut1
As far as calling to locate. My calling is louder well before daylight as I'm looking for bulls. Once located I will manage all calling according to the encounter. At no time do I attempt to imitate a young bull, real bulls do not do this & neither will I. Mature bull bugles & such will attract bulls of all ages. This doesn't mean I bugle or call at the top of my lungs it means I use mature bull sounds to the best of my ability & volume will vary according to bulls desires & wants, I do not take into account a hunter may hear me, all my focus is on this bull & what it will take to put him on the ground. Right time right sounds trump worrying about other hunters.
Again this is done in specific spots that I am very familiar with & have taken a lot of bulls in these spots over the years. Those areas I have hunted for the last 25 years, in that time the elk are still there being hunted with tons of pressure, few kill elk there but that's their fault not the elks.
My question to you is how long have you hunted your present area? I'll bet it's been many years? Are the elk still there despite all the calling you say already takes place there every year by countless hunters? I bet they are. Ambushing them may be better than calling, some areas are just that way but do not eliminate calling all together as it can come in very handy!(grin)You may need to tailor your calling to each bull differently for best results. Calling elk is an art, it is not mastered over night! Nothing better than boots on the ground & trial & error!(grin)
Please feel free to ask any questions that may be more specific to your concerns. This is open to anyone.
ElkNut1
It's not uncommon for multiple bulls to be in a herd on about any day in Sept. When there are no hot cows present the dominant bull will allow other bulls to mingle within. They are no threat, no cow can be covered when not in estrus! We see this every year here on public land. Once a cow or several cows start showing signs of coming into estrus the dominant bull will force the satellites/juveniles out of the herd. These bulls don't go far since they have the same urges as the dominant bull in wanting to breed cows. Generally within a couple hundred yards.
What now takes place is these satellite bulls now do their best to pull this hot cow/cows away from the herd by bugling,representing dominance & strength in an effort to represent a possible breeder type bull to the hot cows. It's the cows who will choose or allow a bull to breed her, they ALL want to be that bull! This is when you will experience Peak Bugling as they are contending for these hot cows!
All in all I personally don't put much time into hunting lands that are close to the ranches or private lands. I like being able to roam where I please with no restrictions, plus if I wound one I hate thinking of what a hassle it would be in retrieving an elk behind the fence. I can see though why you would treestand hunt it on selective trails as they travel to & from. Good luck on your decision to move or not, you know you can always return to that area but it is nice to explore other options!
ElkNut1
In the past years I almost never bugle and very rarely cow call - maybe cow call couple times just after daylight, then again noonish, and again just before the sun hits the tree/mountain top. "Blind calling" as some have referred to.
There is always a lot of sign in the area - almost never see another hunter. I do see elk from time to time on the other side of the creek bottom (couple hundred yards).
I have gone on line and listened to other hunters who "teach" others how to bugle as well as listened to actual (real) elk bugling. I've recorded those sounds and, as mentioned earlier, I practice A LOT, and have gotten fairly decent.
With my type of scenario/hunting style - what/how would you hunt?
Couple things I would do differently if I were you. I would call more often for the reasons I gave. Since you say you rarely see other hunters, I wouldn't hesitate to send out location bugles on a fairly regular basis, especially from high points where you can call into different drainages.
Another thing, if you're seeing elk a couple hundred yards off, get closer! You can call till you're blue in the face from that far away and you'll rarely call them in. They'll bugle back, but that's normally about it. Get in tight, and you force that bull to do one of two things...fight or flight. Many times he'll choose to fight, then the fun starts! Just my perspective on what you posted.
I find that it is much better to use my favorite secret call a or a hoochiemama. Best to call 3-4 times a min (or more) as that is the absolute best way to locate and kill elk..
This information was gathered by hunting lots of otc units in colorado and observing tons of NR hunters who apparently find sucess this way..
Good luck and again I believe the call is called a hoochie - mama but dont let that get around too much!!
Are you interested in any elk or just branched antlered bulls? If only bulls you are best suited to pick dates that will up your odds of a response during your hunt such as anytime after Sept 10.
In your situation in a running & gunning style I'd definitely be casting out several bugles well before daylight in hopes of receiving a bugle back & getting a direction on him. Once found I'd shut it down & get over his way. -- If no response keep moving & bugling once you feel you are far enough away from your last bugling spot that your bugling now reaches new country. Toss out 2-3 bugles each time & wait several minutes in hopes of a response back. If your area is big enough to keep moving & penetrating in hopes of locating elk this way then I'd keep doing it until I found a vocal bull.
If area is a smallish one & you really feel elk are there but just not rutting at that time then consider a cold calling setup or two that draws on an elk's curiosity since you are already there. You don't want to just leave & burn up a hunting day.
If after any elk tailor your cold calling to attract any elk. This means dominant cow chatter over bull sounds, you can incorporate bull sounds but sparsely. If after bulls only then tailor your cold calling to bugling, being creative here with a variety of bull sounds can attract bulls very well, adjust your volume to fit your area, incorporating foot stomping light thrashing around & raking trees/brush can add realism to your setup. Call & rake off & on for 20 minutes taking to stop here & there & watch & listen. Keep eyes open & head on a swivel, elk can slip in silently at any time, I'd stay in that one spot one hour minimum. This can pull those curious bulls over your way to size you up!
ElkNut1
Any-elk-L-do, other than a calf.
Jah, LOL - actually I have one of the compressed air horns - I figure if I hold that up to my bugle tube that should do about the same as the hoochiemamma.
Sounds like you were possibly heading up a trail or some sort of access point for another hunter to follow your same route? Sounds like the guy was bugling in a ridiculous manner. Way too much in most cases, heck who knows maybe he's done that in the past with some sort of positive experience. In most cases that's a bit too much!
From the reaction of the bull it appears the other hunter was following a course other hunters had used previously where they most likely called on their way up the mountain as well. Whether cow calling or bugling, in time the elk in the area can be conditioned to where these possible threats stem from. Who knows you guys could have been the 12th hunters that bull had heard that year. Most of which had called right up the mountain. The first or 2nd time the bull heard hunters he may have come towards the calling but busted the hunters & fled, hard to say for sure?
At any rate the bull could have seen movement or winded the bugling hunter, it sounds something like that with the way the bull reacted & snuck out as he put distance between him & the threat. Do not let things like that keep you from bugling, bugling properly for bulls can be very productive. We need to both hunt & call smart! This is one reason I limit my hunts from trails & gated road systems that are being used, they receive lots of hunter & calling pressure. I would treat them a little more subtly.
Once again, nice job!
ElkNut1
