Contributors to this thread:
'morning All,
Looks like Az. started hitting C-cards March 21--22nd last year.
Any thinking next week it will start for 2016?
Good luck, Robb
I say we'll start to see hits on Monday. Good luck everyone!
I'm thinking sooner rather than later. Many times, they begin hitting cards day after credit card update deadline.
I need to do something productive around the house.
Good Luck!
Fingers crossed for AZ. Otherwise Colorado OTC. Either way, I'M GOING ELK HUNTING!
Fingers crossed for AZ. Otherwise Colorado OTC. Either way, I'M GOING ELK HUNTING!
3 points....COME ON UNIT 9!!! :)
I don't care what day the hits come as long as they hit me!
I thought they always sent an email out a couple days before they start hitting cards?
Maybe it will start Tomorrow? I'll let you know when I draw unit 1 with 3 points since now there is a chance!
HaHa! Now that is some very positive thoughts!!
I would rather draw my late date than my early date hunt as I have Team Indiana coming into my Wyo bow elk camp in Sept.----
'It'll Be Fine'...
Good luck, Robb
Gained three points last year (annual, loyalty and hunter ed), but still WAY behind the curve with seven total points. The new regs give everyone a shot though, so will just have to wait and see like everyone else.
Fingers crossed!
It will be nice to be able to plan an AZ elk hunt before the New Mexico app deadline next week so I don't have to throw more money away there.
"Maybe it will start Tomorrow? I'll let you know when I draw unit 1 with 3 points since now there is a chance!"
Hope at least one of you fellow Bowsiters gets the unit 1 archery elk tag I would have drawn this year had not AZF&G thrown me and my 14 points under their bus. Better than a zero point teenager who was in diapers when I started buying into their scheme.
Haha if I did that I'd end up waiting 8-10 more years under the "new" scheme. I'm out and will burn my points next year in some lower tier unit. I'm not waiting that long for ANY unit. I can see some pissed off guys going in and taking their elk outside the draw system the way these states behave. Been happening in Utah. Check out their poaching increases. Haha after their latest RFP fiasco I only see that increasing!
Hardly satisfied. Just have no choice given the fact I no longer trust any states legislatures nor wildlife boards. These bunches are nothing but scheme weavers, and I'll not hang around long enough to be screwed again. Screw me once, shame on you. Screw me twice, shame on me.
Maverick, What exactly is your problem? What have I posted that is not true?
Not only do I not trust legislators nor wildlife boards under the current circumstances, but just wait a few years down the road since SFW is slowly infiltrating every wildlife board out west in every state that has valuable big game trophy tags to pilfer. Do you deny this as well? If so, you are an outfitter who stands to benefit financially.
The sky is falling!
It's going to take a year or two to see what the real effects are, the way I look at it is you still have better odds than that zero point teenager that was in diapers when you started applying, at least some of our youth will be hunting elk in az while they're teens and not waiting until they're in their 40's
Zim, I'm in the same boat as you and feel the exact same way you do .....We got ripped off by AZG&F !! I feel like cashing in all my points on a lesser unit just to get out of their Ponzi Scheme. Once I draw out AZ can KMA I don't care how big their elk are. 14 points = a lot of time and $$$$$.
jdee, Those defending the "change" have few if any points. None of the statements I made are disputable. It's just the way it is these days. Other states do the same thing and you will see more in the future. They have no problem with bait-n-switching if they can get away with it. It's no secret attorneys, legislators, SFW have/has low ethics. It's just reality, and I am adjusting my strategy and hunting applications accordingly in all states. Anyone who does not will be making a mistake.
And I do hope some Bowsiter with more than zero points gets my tag. What's wrong with that? Better than pissing it away to someone who didn't wait, didn't pay, didn't fly to AZ to take their silly azz hunter's ed class, didn't earn a "loyalty" point. (Haha that's a good one........loyalty.)
I agree with your sentiment, to an extent, my point is you still have better odds than anyone else, it's not automatic that "your" tag will go to someone else...
I hope you draw your tag so don't feel so screwed...
Yup, next week....I'll have a DisneyLand charge along with a AZ charge! Well, at least one of them for sure...Lol
"I agree with your sentiment, to an extent, my point is you still have better odds than anyone else, it's not automatic that "your" tag will go to someone else..."
Anyone who is a student of draw history knows it's extremely likely a zero point holder will end up with a long invested hunter's tag this year, because the zero point pools always have the most applicants. I am more disappointed for all the hundreds of OTHER honest invested sportsmen who are now screwed. In two weeks I'm getting a pacemaker implanted. What about the guys who have it worse than me? Many will die before they ever get their tag due to this "change". That's a fact, and it ain't right.
But the young guys should take note and remember what happened here so they themselves don't get screwed in their future. It's not a good idea to build too many points for anything anywhere anymore. That will only earn them a big fat target on their backs.
I derw elk tags in Az in 2005,2008 & 2014 I'm 68 years old now. If I never drew again before I die why would I care I will be dead lighten up or drop out. Thats how the game in played
I had to look this morning to see if I had a drop in available credit----
NADA----haha
Come on Monday!
Good luck, Robb
I never invested in any state's point system thinking the system would never change. It's a gamble....I knew it going in. If I draw 1 or 2 primo tags in my lifetime, I'll be happy. If I never draw one...oh, well, I still was lucky enough to have had some spectacular elk hunts.
"Lesser" units in AZ are not all bad. I killed this bull in a unit that was rated "poor" by all the experts. I smile every day when I look at him and think of all the other bulls I got to play with his size and larger. I've got 13 or 14 points now too, so I got "screwed by the system too. Not much I can do, but I'm resigned to playing the game, and I don't do much complaining-it never changes anything.
My goodness.... that's a beautiful bull. Ed F
That's a awesome bull! I have saw a few of that caliber hunting in NM. Just seeing those monsters is an awesome experience. Good luck guys, hopefully a few of us will get lucky in AZ, and draw something.
I'm hoping for 3rd year in a row late hunt. I figure the more I hunt the same unit even in November the more I'll have it figured out. This was last year second day.....stepped in a pile of poop finding this bull.
I was also able to take a stud elk in a "brand x" no name NM unit in 2011. Didn't even appear in the "other good hunts" section HF that year. So that plays part of my decision to bail on unit 1 next year.
Haha and then there are states that sell preference systems that magically morph into bonus.
Shrewski that's an amazing animal and even more impressive with traditional equipment!
You can still change CC data, hits are several days away.
For the guys whining about the draw change why were you not complaining about the change from a true bonus point draw to hybrid draw?
AZ was originally a true bonus point system without a set aside for preference points. They changed it cause of whiners. When they figured out their change gave new non res hunters zero chance at a premium tag they changed the system again.
If AZ changed its system once why would you not think it would not ever get changed again? History usually repeats itself. So please quit whining about this most recent change since it doesn't benefit you. If you want to whine whine about them changing the system the first time.
Regards, Branden
PS don't worry about me "stealing" your unit 1 tag I didn't apply there :)
I've been reluctant to get in on this discussion, but here gos. Very few got screwed more by this change than myself and my buddy. I have 18pts, my bud 17. We've been chasing unit 9 on a buddy application for what seems an eternity. This would have been the year where we were most likely better than 50% at drawing the tag. Now we've had to change our strategy and put in separately in the hopes of at least one of us drawing a tag.
Early on I voiced my frustration over this change, usually getting bad mouthed by those NR's with few if any points. Like I've mentioned before, my only issue with the change is that residents will likely end up with a substantial share of the 5% of the tags in question. And while it's a small number in relation to total percentage of resident tags, it will be huge in regards to NR percentage. If NR's were guaranteed the full 10%, I wouldn't have any problem with this new system, allowing those NR's with few if any points at least a chance at a premium tag.
What this change did is allow the state to pull in more revenue with increased NR applications, while making a portion of the "up to" 10% NR tags available to residents. It was a "win, win" for the state. And I've had conversations with those involved in the draw process that have confirmed this.
So, for now I'm back to crossing my fingers and hoping for the best. My buddy and I put in separate apps this year just to keep our odds as high as possible in the hopes one of us gets lucky. Because that's what it 's back to.... Pure luck!
BigRed, Yup the whiners will really be whining about whiners when they see how all NR's got screwed by this change, even the zero point guys. They're not gonna draw anything. If and when AZG&F posts the first real draw odds report with R/NR breakdown the one point guys will be whining for a refund! :)
Going forward my strategy will stay the same as before this change. Every 6 years I will have 8 points (with loyalty and hunter ed points) and that should be good for a mid-tier unit every 6/7 years. I'd rather go every 6/7 years than wait many years as I'm in my early 60's and don't buy green bananas.
So my strategy is to put in for a top tier hunt every year while building points then when I'm ready and the start/stop season dates are the latest I'll apply for the mid-tier unit I would like. Good luck all! C
BigRed - Statistically speaking, its almost impossible for NR's to NOT get 10% of the tags, especially in the high demand units. You will see this play out once the draw odds get posted.
Same strategy I use Charlie Rehor! I believe it is a solid one. You try for several years to draw "the tag" and if it works out, great! If it doesn't, you put in for a unit you can draw and have a great time in. That's where I'm at this year but I waited for 9 years this time.
I'm with Charlie but I don't see a scenario where I will need more than 6 points, hunting every 5 years max.
cmbbulldog, All I can say is you need to look at the draw odds where it relates to residents and the percentage who draw with 0-5pts.
It will take a year or two for this to break down so we all see where these tags end up. But I'm guessing, and this is an educated guess based on those resident percentage draws, but of the 5% in question, I'm saying half of those tags end up in resident hands. So for a unit like nine where the full 10 tags were going to NR's, don't be surprised to see 2 or 3 land with residents. Now imagine that across all of the NR bull tags. It won't mean a lot for the residents, but a 10, 20 or 30% reduction in NR tags while still earning more revenue in increased NR applications. All I can say is, win-win for the state and residents.
It's always been a point of contention that even though the rule reads "up to 10%" available to NR's, the NR's were getting the full allotment due to having higher point holders in the Bonus draw. Those days are gone, and I doubt NR's will ever see the full 10% on bull tags again in any unit.
That's my educated guess based on studying the draw year after year. I've voiced my displeasure with the change. I'll continue to play by their rules and hope I some day soon get the opportunity at my dream hunt. But I'm not getting any younger, just more long winded...
Good luck to all in the coming weeks, residents and NR's. For those of us who have been playing this game for many many years, it truly is the most gut wrenching wait imaginable.
If you look at draw success, res vs nr, on a per hunt basis for the 1-2 pass, nr easily drew their 10% quota on virtually all hunts that had nr tags available in that pass. When you add the minimum 5% max pool nr applicants that no longer draw in the bonus pass to the 1-2 pass, nr will likely fill the quota on most early archery hunts.
Will be closely watching my email for any CC charge notification from my bank next week. But......I don't worry all that much about drawing or not. Just because there are so many states to hunt elk in, it's not worth "wrenching your guts" about AZ, as someone mentioned above. Lots & lots of options to hunt elk every year elsewhere. Good luck to all!
BigRed:
On average, NR's have more than double the "average" points that Residents have. NR's have over 24% of the total point pool.
NR's are trying to get 6% (5 of 80) of the "random draw" and have 24% of the points.
Add in some simple assumptions that NR's are less likely to apply for cow tags than residents, and that 24% is really higher than that when talking about the premium bull tags.
Simple math indicates that NR's will easily draw up to 10% of their tags (5% in the first draw and 5% in the random).
I too have done more late date than early date hunts the last few years.
I apply early date 1st choice and late date 2nd choice.
Knowledge and experience in the unit, to me are #1 combo for success.
I want to hunt elk as much as I can from Sept thru November in 2-3 states yearly.....that has never been a secret!! haha
Good luck, Robb
Dumb question. After the bonus pass it's my understanding it goes to the random draw. Do bonus points still apply in the random draw? In other words when doing the random draw does a guy with 5 points get his name in the hat 5 times and the guy with 2 points get his name in the hat 2 times?
Not dumb at all.
In the 2nd pass, you have a random number assigned to your actual application and for each of your accumulated bonus/loyalty/hunter ed points. If you go into the draw with 0 points. You are excluded from the 1st pass, but would have 1 random number assigned to you in the 2nd pass and beyond-for your current application. Likewise if you have 10 bonus points (from any combination of previous apps/hunter ed/loyalty) you would have 11 random numbers assigned to you in the draw. of those 11, the lowest number only is used to determine when you name comes up.
The random number(s) are reissued to each person (if eligible) at each stage of the draw.
At least this is my understanding of the process.
Bill is correct. So yes, bonus points do matter because they give you more opportunities to draw a lower number for the draw.
"Like I've mentioned before, my only issue with the change is that residents will likely end up with a substantial share of the 5% of the tags in question. And while it's a small number in relation to total percentage of resident tags, it will be huge in regards to NR percentage."
I ran the math in a previous thread several months ago and showed that this is just not true based on the math/statistics.
NRs hold the bulk of the BPs as we are very heavily holding more points in the "8 BP" category and higher. We only need to grab 5% of the tags in the 1-2 pass and we have more total points to do it with than the Rs who would have to grab >95% of the tags with less BPs.
Mathematically, that just cannot happen. We might lose a tag here or a tag there in an undersubscribed-unit-by-NRs, but we are not going to lose "a substantial share," of the hunts that have any level of competition. There is no evidence that that will happen based on the numbers. That view is just conjecture and hand-wringing.
Additionally, every year that goes by, that disparate number of BPs between Rs an NRs grows larger so the odds of us losing tags only goes down.
Like I've been saying. Let it shake out. You have your opinions based on the numbers, I have mine. we'll know here shortly, and there will be some "I told ya so's" going around. I hope I'm not the one saying it...
My prediction as well is that the lone NR tag for both 23N and 23S will end up in resident hands.
Again, good luck to all!
Quote:
"My prediction as well is that the lone NR tag for both 23N and 23S will end up in resident hands."
While that's remotely possible, it's extremely unlikely, given the expected mix of NR & RES apps in the draw pool for those two hunts. Reference the following:
In a hypothetical scenario where there are 15 total archery tags available, and there were hypothetically an equal number of RES & NR apps in the running for that hunt, and hypothetically the residents and non-residents had about the same bonus point status on average....then the probability that no NR pulls a tag calculates to about 1 in 4000.
You could tweak the assumptions one way or another to reflect more or less NR demand, and recalculate. But the reality is that barring a drastic fall-off in NR demand, or a drastic fall-off in NR bonus point status, NR's will get their one tag for each of those hunts.
Just one more "fun math fact" to consider....lol.
In order to make the odds about 50-50 that no NR would pull a 23N or 23S archery tag, the number of NR applicants in the total draw pool for either hunt would have to fall to about 5% of the total.
In any case, all we can do is apply for the hunt we most desire, and then pray to the "draw gods"!
Enough of this hand wringing...anyone's cc getting hit? Is "it" happening ?
Nothing here...slim odds for our group though
Nothing yet. Does anyone's application show up under their account when they sign in? I applied and have the receipt, but I'm only showing my past applications when I check under my account.
yea mine only shows past applications
Ours shows license only.. No 2016 apps
come on over to the "Guess what time it is?" thread on the AZ forum... Its all about the CC hits.. Gonna be this week.. tic toc tic toc.. lol.. I had one going last year thought it would be fun to start another..
Good, I just want to see posts on hits, not non-resident whining
Hey Pirogue, SAD 18 points and hoping for the best, good luck to all
Hasn't happened before NM deadline that I can remember. They are in bed together and should be neighboring states.
No card hits yet. But I thought I'd bump this to the top to keep everyone on their toes. :)
tic toc tic toc tic toc tic
I'm thinking Friday on the cc
My card got hit...... caught my wife red handed! She figured I wouldn't know until the statement came out
lol Frank... what she buy some shoes????
hits were on the 21st last year which was a Saturday.. one more nail biting day you ELKAHOLICS... I'm saying tomorrow...lol tic toc tic toc
on a good note for me... I'm in my 4th month shoulder surgery recovery.. 4 screws, bicep anchor pin and a bone spur removed. My Therapist allowed me to start shooting again... Not bad but now I have to get used to me new Progressive lenses in my glasses.. Old Age I tell ya!!!!!!!!
Last year I was hit at noon on the 20th which was a Friday. Good Luck!!
For anyone who doesn't like our NR whining and is happy with a late or lesser unit probably has never had a 23's or a 9 early archery tag !! Kinda like settling for a short fat brunet when what you really wanted was that long, tall, stacked, blonde haired, blue eyed girl.
Apparently you can still update your cc s usually closed by this time check it out
That was supposed to stop March 17th. Sounds lik AZGFD screwed up again
Got to be kidding me!? No.....
I read on another site, YES you can update your card on the computer...BUT...it does not update on your application. They will call you if there is a problem with the card.
They called me for my javelina payment about two weeks ago. Said they had 900 people to call. I told them they need a new system and they said this is their new system.. I tried my hunter survey online and the site was down... Not a good sign.
What the hell is a Louboutin? Sounds Canadian...
Well, it was Disney Land this sat week...
Must have hired the same folks that put in the ObamaKare system....
My son called G&F yesterday and was told mid April for results. Sure glad they spent over a million dollars upgrading their website.
Draw results officially posted likely in April.
We're talkin' about CC hits... which happen sooner.
They are behind in the whole process. That is why there are no cc hits yet.
Had to post just to make it an even 100 posts and absolutely nothing has hit yet! Haha! Worse than a bunch of kids at X-mas! Good luck to everyone when it finally happens! TODDY
101 'aint' bad!! haha
Good luck, Robb
Happy Easter all! So far the Easter Bunny has been a bust with the CC hits!
Its the 28th time to bring this back up anyone make any calls are find out anything else?
You can still update payment info, gunna be a while yet. Probably better to just leave that option open so guys that know they need to change out can do it.
Alright, that's it. I'm not opening this thread again!
Can someone PM me when they actually start hitting cards???
Its like watching paint dry...
Ech day waiting for the results Is like sitting over a water hole in the mid day hot sun knowing that its six more hours until the elk get up to come to water. But you don't dare climb down because there is that "chance" something might mosey in.
bump...
Just to get Ike to open the thread again....hee hee
It appears there's been issues with the license number showing up on apps....They are contacting people as they go, hense the delay...
Just got a call from them verifying some information on my application...... Doesn't look like it will happen today
What number did they call you from if you don't mind me asking MS Bowman? I work in a very noise atmosphere, and I don't here my phone half the time. I missed two call from two Utah numbers today, but when I call back it goes to an answering service. But it doesn't say who the company is.
Could that be a good sign that you got called?
They called from a 602 area code, Phoenix, AZ
She said they were about to do the draw and couldn't match up my last name to a customer number. I'm the 3rd, so I told her to look for III following my name and she said she had it. Wouldn't tell me anything else
Maverick, it scares me you know how to spell Louboutins!
"Louboutins" If it means "fat ankles" watch your back...you likely are about to be assaulted....
It won't be to much longer now----haha
Good luck, Robb
Since it was wishful thinking to have AZ results before the NM deadline;
What are the chances cc will be hit before the April 5th Colorado deadline? Are you waiting to submit your CO app until AZ hits? I am...
Yup...waiting on AZ in case lightning strikes before CO app.
wildwilderness, not waiting myself, but it probably depends on what Elk hunts you're applying for in those 2 other states, and your point status. For me it's points-only in Colorado, so no worries there. But if you were applying for a tag in CO, their preference system makes it fairly predictable, one way or the other. It might be different if CO had a bunch of 2nd choice limited archery elk hunts we could fall back on, but they don't. In a future year, when I know I can draw in CO, I won't apply in AZ or elsewhere. In NM this year I only put in for long-shot draws with slim-to-none odds, but hey...you have to try! If no draw luck in AZ, NM, UT, NV, the back-up plan is either find a LO tag, or hunt OTC in CO or ID.
I don't do Co or Nm so no worrys for me. I have Mt in pocket. So I at least have that. The year I drew both Nv And Az it worked out ok Nv closed 6 days before Az opened and Mt has a 6 week bow season.
Everyone get that email from AZGF about setting up a customer portal account to get draw results sooner?
March 30, 2016
Don’t have an account? Sign up now!
PHOENIX — As the Arizona Game and Fish Department completes the random draw process for the 2016 pronghorn and elk seasons, hopeful hunters are being encouraged to open a free Customer Portal account.
Portal account holders will be among the first to get the news before the draw results officially are released. It’s quick, easy and free to create a Portal account. Just click on the “Sign in to Account” button in the upper right-hand corner of the www.azgfd.gov home page and then select the “Create an Account” option, filling in the requested information.
The Portal allows customers to create a secure account where they can manage and view their contact information, as well as their license and draw results information and bonus points, in their personal “My AZ Oudoors” section.
A Portal account is mobile-friendly, which means customers can view their information on their smartphone. It’s also a convenient way to gain access to the online license purchase and hunt draw application systems.
Meanwhile, the random draw process remains on schedule and should be completed by mid-April. The department is aware that applicants are eager to learn whether they will be receiving a hunt-permit. The department will post an announcement on its website and Facebook page when results officially are released. All permit-tags and refunds are expected to be mailed by April 22.
As always, applicants are encouraged to contact the department at (602) 942-3000, Option 2, with draw-related questions.
Here you go
Terry
I did call yesterday and was told the cc's will be hit this week or next. BTW, how bout starting a new thread when AZ actually starts hitting cards.
Mine has been set up since January---
Good luck, Robb
All signed up. Thanks guys.
Still nothing.....
That lone NR 23 North tag is going to be SAW-WEEEET
Sorry Norseman, but that is MY tag.. But, I will take the Unit 9 backup plan ;)
Great minds think alike MSB!
Hey Mav, I picture myself atop Colcord Mtn at daylight listening for bugles.
Norseman, how many points do you have? I was praying for the South tag with 18 until they mud holed us!
I don't have much of a chance, guys. I just have a PMO!
I blew my points 2 years back on Unit 9. I drew it with 18 points. But it seems I did it at the right time with the allocation of more tags to the general pool. And back then I don't think you could (or still can) get a Unit 23N tag in the bonus pass....?
Wishful thinking for AZ Elk...but I do have 19 points for an "ace in the hole" UT hunt when I decide to pull the proverbial trigger.
Good luck to you guys in the draw! Someone's gotta draw...right?
Other sites are saying card hits have started
My card got hit today for $650.00
My card was "hit" for a resident elk tag fee. My wife drew a 23N General Antlerless tag! I know this because her app had only once choice, I did bonus only, and the boys were on Jr. hunts and that is a different fee.
No, seriously. Looks like I have at least an Elk tag, had six points Applied for antelope also with 15 points
One of my friends got hit for 135.00 elk. Good luck to everyone on the draw!!!!!!!!!!!!
Almost had a heart attack! I checked my "temporary authorizations" on my card and my eyes were immediately drawn to "AZ" with a charge. I completely forgot that I bought a super raffle ticket the other day. That said, I think that the rest of these posts are April Fools jokes since I don't have a hit on my card for a license. I'm banking on Unit 9 with my 3 points.
Dam I got hit too..either my app or one of my sons!
159 n a wake up.. I got struck by lightning again.. my son and I are going Elk hunting.. Yehaaaa.. Thank you Jesus........
Karma visits me --- archery bull tag for September (PLUS a non-archery antelope tag). WIDE grin here ...
Congrats Gentlemen! My CCC is always late to post so i am still hoping.
Ike, They are hitting CCs....check your PM as you requested.
I drew a 5a bull or 5a cow or 5bs cow
I got a resident hit for elk! 5BN here I come, it cant get here fast enough.
Oh yea, either 23N archery bull or unit 1 early black powder or 27 early rifle.
Is anyone still getting hits or is it over?
Pretty sure it's pretty much over with regular card hits. I heard that they are calling those with CC issues.
The guys just seeing hits on their card today, probably had a pending charge Friday, they just did not see it on their Credit Card activity. Cabelas for example does not show on the card activity until the official charges post on the website, but the pending charges can be determined by doing the good old fashioned math to figure if your available credit is less than the difference between credit limit and balance due or calling a customer service rep.
It's official!
Apply for CO! ;-)
Any ideas on when the portal will be updated?
I have the charge now to determine which unit it'll be...excitement is at its high.
Yup, It looks like coal in our stockings too. :(
Can't really open my present yet until they update portal. Like Christmas Eve when we were kids lol
Yea, somebody please, please, update the portal. My boys are driving me nuts!
I was really hoping to draw this year. No hit on my cc.
They give 3 days to fix the cc problems after the call. Friday would be the earliest any results would be posted.
Nothing on my card. I guess I got a big chunk of coal in my stocking also. 18 points wouldn't cut It.
Well I was not one of the lower point holders (<5) that screwed any of you higher point holders...
Zim, JDee, BigRed, Norseman, How did you guys fare?
I came up empty with 18pts. as did my buddy with 17pts.
Sure seems like not as many guys claiming victory as in the past... Which is leading me to believe not as many successful NR's.
Oh well! Congrats to those who were successful... Hope the weather stays good this summer and you have plenty of trophy's to chase this fall. Good luck!
Goose eggs across the board for me and mine. Better season dates the next few years anyway.
Mav - Do you mind me asking what units and seasons your guys will be hunting?
Thanks, Joe
Hoot, I cashed in on a 2013 Unit 9 Tag.
I was going into this draw with 4 points.
Just itchin to get back as it was a great hunt.
I have not personally verified this, but just heard from a friend, that he knows a NR guy who drew either 1 or 27 with zero points. If it is true, guess the new system works for them...
i am still optimistic that the effects will be minimal, for those of you feeling screwed, give it another year or two before you jump ship to lesser units, the math suggest the draws should still favor you...
Wow... Awesome units! good luck
When you are still checking your card every 5 minutes Waiting for a miracle...:(
When you are still checking your card every 5 minutes Waiting for a miracle...:(
Hoot, I actually didn't even bother to look. Already knew the result when scam was announced last year, thus my attention has been on other states, where I've been ramping up my apps. AZ archery dates suck this year anyway. Will go for a mid-tier next year.
AZ archery dates suck this year anyway.
Full moon on the 16th, so who knows?
Junior, you won't have a problem with that tag.
Pat Lefemine nailed it. only one present left under the tree and it looks like socks or maybe a neck tie... Mike
Bob, I hear your right! lol
Got hit for $ 650. ...unit 1 or 8.
My credit card was billed $650.00 on 4/2/16.
So the hits are done and it appears from buddies that didn't draw....point creep skyrocketed for non residents.
Guys with 2 more points than it took to draw the unit last yr...didn't draw....too predictable....AND it will probably get worse next year!
It would be interesting to see if my other prediction [that was met with skepticism here months ago] comes true that non res hunters will get shortchanged on the 10% of tags...
Dang you loyal guys with a bunch of points got screwed..... and Az knows you won't drop out with so much already invested.
10 points may not be loyal to some, but it is for my two sons and I. One of us got a tag. So not all got screwed.
It may be a long wait but the results are worth the wait for AZ
Mav - Seriously...? So with 12pts, 9pts, 3pts and 2pts you're telling us "your" guys (4 out of 7 apps) drew units 1, 9, 23 and 27?
Are these all NR bull tags? If so, you're talking Mega Millions lottery odds here to make something like that happen...
Can you please tell us your real name and outfitter business. All I see is Hunting Guide.
Thanks, Joe
It's very short-sighted to view a PP type system as sustainable. Regardless of the system, when demand outweighs supply the economic currency (in this case points) will increase as the "economy" rationalizes the shortage.
The point you guys, that claim you got "screwed", are missing are all the hunters, especially youth, that will never reach the front of the line and get to hunt without a lottery type system. These new guys are the future of hunting and are the ones that will be carrying the torch forward.
I believe the AZ draw was very fair this go around, as there was a great distribution of guys that drew across the system. I know of one with 18 points, one with 8 points and one with 1 point that drew archery bull tags.
I agree with L2HBB
Some guys did get "screwed," but it was a necessary screw as the system is unsustainable. All the PP system states need to figure this out; the sooner the better.
Hey Liv2 hntBBz, I can remember when I was a lot younger and considered "the future of hunting" well now I've got some miles on me and the once future of hunting is getting hosed by AZ !! I have spent a ton of money on AZ hunting along with my wife she has ...now 9 elk points along with my now 15 points for elk not to mention all the deer and antelope points and we are going backwards. I don't care what anyone says I think AZ should have taken all of us loyal, higher point customers into consideration before they screwed the once.....Future of Hunting !! Now the next bunch can get in line and spend their money and waste their time until AZ decides to change the game just as they get to the top.
It would be interesting if those commenting would state their BP total. If it turns out that 5% of the random tags do go to NRs for most hunts, I guess Im fine with it. 13 points
They were backfilling apps today.
Bob, as in going to the next in line for people whose cards didn't go through?
Maybe today is the day. Portal updates
It looks like there's a new message at the bottom of Portal accounts, it's getting close!!!
Ike, yes filling tags for those who couldn't provide payment or couldn't be reached by the dept.
