Are you playing the PP Game in Colorado?
Elk
Contributors to this thread:
Is playing the PP game in Colorado really worth it?
I have played it for years, gone on some good hunts, but Im not going to play it anymore.
Sure I will get my PP each year, but plan on blowing them whenever I want, or in case the CPW decides to change a OTC unit to draw.
If you use all your PPs in a 'quality' unit, will you get back in the game?
I just bought my first point. Always said if i wanted to hunt Colorado elk again I would just go OTC. After much thought I decided to get in the pp game. I'm relativity young (27), and realize I might never draw some of the premier units in my lifetime. But I should be able to hunt low to mid point level units several times. In the meantime I will keep hunting montana general season.
Not after I cash them in again. I'll never draw a premium tag again and I'm only in my 30s.
Only enough points to draw a low demand unit which I should be hunting for the third time this year. I quit buying deer points because I don't know what I was saving them for. Will likely burn those within the next few years.
Hopefully hunting OTC with a couple Bowsiter elk gurus next year! :-)
No, because my new unit is a zero point but first choice only unit. At my age I'll never catch the good units again. I'm just happy I got one great hunt in unit 2.
As for the switch from an OTC to draw - killed me to burn 8 deer points for my previously OTC deer unit when it went to draw. I would've drawn with zero...
After I burn my points i will not be building them up more then a handful of years at most.
No, because my new unit is a zero point but first choice only unit. At my age I'll never catch the good units again. I'm just happy I got one great hunt in unit 2.
As for the switch from an OTC to draw - killed me to burn 8 deer points for my previously OTC deer unit when it went to draw. I would've drawn with zero...
I'm 33 and I'll play the short game for elk and moose (probably just try to pull a cow tag). I'll accumulate a 1 or 2 for deer as there are plenty of good deer units for little points unless you are truly chasing a 180+ deer. Of course the longer wait would be sheep or goat which I'm good with.
I just don't see the point in accumulating a ton of elk or deer points in Colorado unless you are invested to the point of not turning back now.
My strategy is to hunt OTC and try to get a solid tag in Wyoming or Arizona every few years as a destination hunt.
No. The unit I'm hunting only takes one point to ensure I get a tag and the other I'm interested in only takes 2.
However I am building points in WY and will most likely use them in the next 2-5 years.
Yes and no. I won't catch the premium units after burning my points a few years ago. I will still either draw a tag or get a point every year. My new unit is like Jaquomo's. It doesn't require points but it does require putting in as a first choice so I'll be at zero as long as I hunt this unit.
It's a good idea for anyone hunting elk here to get points if you can. The day may come when every tag requires points.
The way I look at it...........it doesn't make any sense not to even if you know you won't draw the best units in the state with the amount of years you have left to live based on the CURRENT point system.
Things change and I would almost guarantee that the CPW will change their draw system as it relates to preference points in my lifetime. Look what they did by adding a hybrid draw for people with just 5+ points. The system will change and if you don't have the points you definitely won't be able to play.
Also over the years by meeting new people some opportunities have opened up that I wouldn't have expected a few years before that. For example what if you meet someone or do some work for someone and they have access to a large property with great elk hunting. They invite you to hunt that property but it takes 3 points to draw in that unit and you decided 4 years ago not to waste your time or $3 on a preference point. You don't get to hunt that property.
You never know what the future will bring so don't pass up an opportunity that is being given to you today. That's how I look at the dismal preference points game.
Yes, I will, but only for the 2-4 point units.
I can see it now...
3-4 points become 5-6. Then in another year you are suddenly in 'No Mans Land'
I dont mind leaving PPs on the table. In the past I have used 7PP in a 3-4 PP unit and had a great hunt and never even thought about those wasted points.
Quinn@work said it best
Yes. Like Quinn, if I'm going to go OTC, might as well get a point first so that I have the option of some 1-3 point units in the future - never know what opportunities might come up or how things might change.
There's no question CO will someday throw us invested sportsmen under the bus. I have 20/20/15/10 and am already shaking in my boots about it. Can't burn these fast enough. I know I'll get screwed otherwise.
State's are realizing preference systems discourage young blood, and they now know they made mistakes choosing preference over bonus or random. But the attorney legislators could care less who is exploited while they fix their systems. All they care about is votes and money.
As to whether I'll get out of the CO game once burning my points? I never worry about it because I now know all the state's systems will "change" many times down the road. So I'll base my decision on what is in place at the time. I'm at the top of CO no man's land with the carrot dangling 2" from my nose. I have too many points in too many states and need to get out badly. I realize now the best ROI is in 2-5 point units.
Some other states are no brainers: No way in hell I get back in Utah or Oregon's games once those points burned. Those are now exploited rip offs from when I began in 1996. Colorado not so much.
I hunt LE in Colorado, but in a particular low demand unit. The most points I've ever needed to draw a tag was three. Planning a return trip (my 5th) in 2017.
Too old to change that routine now....and probably wouldn't anyway. Cut my elk hunting teeth in that unit. Killed my first three bulls there. Lots of great memories.
Sitting on 17 points....not after I draw. I will switch to low demand fun hunts.
another non res in no-mans land. I am already too old to ever draw the prime units. So if I ever figure out where to burn them I will quit playing long term game and just try hunt the 2pp units.
Burned all last year and plan on hunting here at home in the Flattops every other year now
I'm hoping to cash in 19 deer points this year. Just sent in for PP#20 for elk.
There are far more productive places to build points for elk in the west than CO.
That said, I do build points in CO, but the main reason is just in case they ever change to an all-draw system and the outside chance I might get to hunt 40 or 76 one day.
I play it every year but not for a premium unit, I trade them back in every chance I get for an average unit that's close to home, same for deer and turkey.
I'm a holder of 22 elk points, when I first started applying I believed that it would take 8 elk points to draw a unit 2 archery elk tag! 22 years ago unit 2 was a fantastic hunt today it's no better than the over the counter tags were 22 years ago in Idaho. So, my advise is do every thing you can now! Easily assessable hunting is not getting any better or more readily available!
Yes till I cash them in.
Premium units will be available in my next lifetime. ;^)
I went to Unit 61 for Elk (rifle) and it took 2 NR points. That was 20 years ago. Now it would take 20 +or- That was before they sold points IMO that was the end of real good areas. Now I go OTC archery until we get 2 points and then go ML season. Being 75 no chance for a premium area but I had my opportunity and thankful to Co. for allowing me to do it.
STRUGGLING BIG TIME WITH THIS VERY QUESTION RIGHT NOW. 2 days left to send the App in and I sit with 5 elk points as a NR. No hybrid tags for us! Our current unit 3-4 pts draws a bull Muzzy tag....burn them or keep building...and for what? Only a few options in the 8-10 pt range and they may keep going up by the time I get there. Don't think I am interested in going the lifetime for one tag in the primo units IF I ever catch a chance, BUT then there is the what if they change things, maybe 8 or 10 points would be helpful? Plus not sure if a 10 pt unit with little knowledge of the unit is any better than our mediocre mostly OTC tags unit and some knowledge of it and where the elk hide. Like others have noted building points keeps the 1st choice 0 or 1 pt hunts off the table also. Sure wish I could get some clarity on what is the best choice....... I seem to hunt every other year or so the way life is right now with other things going on and family. So holding on to points another couple years just delays getting back to the 4 or 5 it will take to shoot the smoke stick again? Tick, Tock, What do I do.....
If I finally draw 2 this year, I'm getting right back in the game..This point creep is getting ridiculous but I have great hunts each year OTC so I don't mind the wait.
Once I cash mine in, I'm done. It's not too clear that I'll have the chance to do that where I'd like to, but, like Cnelk, that doesn't matter a lot to me. I'm an "opportunity" hunter, and if the points get me to a place where I have more opportunities and have a fun hunt, great. I'm not holding out for my "Once-in-a-lifetime chance" at a big bull or buck.
When I started the PP game in Colorado 11 years ago I did it with the dream of hunting unit 61 for archery elk. The way I have it figured, if the current system doesn't change, I'll be about 70 by the time I draw. Feel like I'm also in no man's land with 11 points. Figure I could draw 76 in a couple years, but not sure what I will do at that point. 61 is where I want to go even if it is just once.
--Mitch
I cashed in 21 Elk PP a few years ago and it was worth it. I have 19 deer points and those will work for me also when I decide on an area. I have also drawn an limited tag in UT and WY (this year). It is a pain but still beats OTC areas unless you live in the State and can scout.
My plan is to burn points ASAP in every state that I'm building them in. Right now I've got 3 in Colorado and the only reason I have that many is because I haven't needed to go to Colorado to hunt elk yet. As soon as I get a chance, I'm burning them. Point systems are a scam and I'm not buying into them anymore than I have to.
I'll have 3 after this year, but only because my hunting partner is changing jobs so unsure about his status. I will hunt OTC for sure, even if he can't, but we would have drawn our preferred unit this year.
Too old to play the Preferred game. I'd be in my 70's before I could draw a top tier unit, and am only 48 now.
I have 2 elk points but quit buying them 4 years ago. I saw the writing on the wall when other states started screwing the vested high point holders. Won't ever put myself or my kids in that position. Also, just couldn't deal with fronting the money every year for a trophy unit that'll never happen due to point creep. IMO, mid-tier LE units in Colorado are just as good as the OTC hunts I do every year now that I'm familiar with my "go to" unit.
Good grief, I've been 1 point away from a WY elk tag for 3 years due to point creep. It was even worse this year. It frustrating and I'll be happy to only have OTC options after next year for myself.
I'll have 7 CO deer points after this year but the tag I want goes up by 1 point every year. What's the damn point?!
Wait a minute! I just answered my own question because the revenue department minions at the CO DOW are sitting back and laughing while reading this...although they're having a hard time focusing because the cash counting machines in their office are constantly running.
I will have 4 points for each elk and deer....I don't plan on waiting much longer to use them.
My dad has 19 or 20 for elk and is looking at 61 for a 2017 hunt.....I haven't looked at the numbers, but he should draw with that.
I figure I would rather give it a go every few years as opposed to waiting a few decades!
As a resident anyone not playing the game for elk is a fool. The fact that you can gain points every year and still hunt some limited tags and all the OTC tags it seems like a waste to not get points. Then add in the fact that anyone over 5 points has a shot at the hybrid draw and the pot is sweetened a little more. Since deer are all limited then the game is totally different.
At some point people will get tired of the the crappy points system. When it happens, they will be forced to honor those with points still. I am not sure when but with top units closing in on 30 years to draw, the system is broken and will need to adapt. When that adaptation comes they will make sure those with top points will be compensated.
Why not play the points game unless you have a favorite unit taking only a couple points or requires a 1st choice?
We hunt deer, and elk every year while still gaining points.
I think that your living a fairy tale if you think top point holders will be compensated when the change is made......can you site anywhere that has happened.....seems like its the other way around! As a non resident you play the game and hope for the best!
I cashed in 15pts two years ago for a unit 76 tag (only needed 11 or 12). Got tired of chasing 61 which was 2 pts ahead of me and never getting any closer.
Now I've started over and plan to hunt lesser units every 3-4 yrs if point creep doesn't start affecting those units as well.
It is a system in definite need of an overhaul. I've been putting in for my son the last few years in states where youth points are still fairly reasonable. He's 15 now, but if the system doesn't change, the likelihood of him ever drawing 2,10,201 or a 61 tag are pretty much nil. Even 76 may start climbing at a rate that he'll never catch it. So as a state, how can you continue with a system that shuts the door on those we're trying to instill and build an interest in hunting.
This is a problem most of the western states need to address. If the youth of hunting are continually shut out by ridiculous draw systems and high priced hunt auctions that only cater to the 1%. There's not much hope for hunting in the generations to come.
Do it like NM. Completely random. Some don't like it but I like knowing every year have a (small) chance in a great unit and a good chance at a lessor one. I am playing the short game in CO.
point creep affecting the lower units too. We hunt a unit that took 0 to 1 a couple of years ago. We didn't draw with 2 last year. The two point unit that we could never hold out for is now 4 minimum.
Had a guy apply that had like 10 points.
that said, no biggie to me. We still hunt elk every year.
I'm only netting the cost of deer and elk for PP builds, so that's ok. If I were doing sheep, goat, and moose I'd be looking hard at the $200 net that is likely going to increase even more in the future.
At some point we as hunters are going to have to take a really hard look at growing the pie. It doesn't matter what system there is, there are just too many of us chasing too few opportunities.
I've never hunted a LE unit, but I have to think the 65 tags issued in the one I will draw this year will provide for a better hunt than the OTC unit I have been hunting that issues 500+ tags.
I will continue to play the game and try to cash in on 2-5 point units across the west.
I burned 14 pts a few years ago on a good unit. I think I like the short game better. There's lots of huntable small point units.
Colorado has so many doggone many elk that putting the "trophy" issue aside, assuming access there has to be lots of decent hunting.
Don't blame the States for point creep and rule changes. The "fault" lies with an increase in applicants due to the internet and publications like the Fool. As for changing the rules, the States really have no choice if they want to keep the future generations of hunters interested. This interest is critical to the long term survival of hunting. Please feel free to drop out at any time as it will give me an easier path to a better tag.