Contributors to this thread:
Little info or help from the veteran elk hunters out there. Im a western game/whitetail hunter but have never hunted elk. Mainly deer and antelope. My broadhead of choice is a rage chisel tip 3 blade head on a gold tip kinetic kaos weighing in at 450 grains. Bow is going to be a elite impluse 34 30 inch 70lbs. Bow shoots right at 298 fps with this setup. My question for you is, is a rage a good head for elk? Ive never had an issue with them and im heading to utah mid sept this fall for my first elk hunt and what a trusty head but not sure if a mechanical is the way to go for an elk? any imput and thoughts or suggestions are great appreciated. thanks
People have killed elk with a Rage, but I would choose something else as in a solid or fixed head.
You stated you want a trusty head.
Since you made the thread debate free, I will repeat/paraphrase what a great Bowsite poster stated.
"When your hunt hinges on your broadhead, do not depend upon a broadhead with hinges."
ZBarebow, good quote. Forrest
Wasn't it "with hinges"....haha...great line though.
OP, the compound is such an effective weapon...with so much excess energy you can literally put anything sharp on the end of your arrow and kill stuff with it....so yes, mech heads work.
Now if you want to delve into the different shot selections, penetration factors, worst case scenarios, etc....there are better BH's than mechs that will work better in those different scenarios.
I suggest you look up Tom Miranda and see what animals he has killed using a Rage.
A lot of people put down using any mechanical head, especially for larger animals.
The Mech's have made a lot of improvements - they do work.
This is the elk I shot last year using a rage extreme cut on contact. Note the entrance wound - she did not go far.
Use what you are confident with, be it fixed or Mech.
exodus, I've killed a ton of deer and big black bears with mechs and love them, but not for elk or moose, if you do choose a mech choose one with a smaller cutting diameter
Slick Trick Mag's....they fly great and penetrate. Spin em on and they do their job.
Thanks Beendare. I knew I was close!
I use slick trick standards on anything bigger than a turkey.
The bigger questions are whether this thread will reach 100 posts, and how many different broadheads are mentioned....
"Rage" and "debate free" do not play well together.
I have used rage on deer and antelope. I think for medium sized game with your setup they do the job well, but I wouldn't personally recommend them for elk. I use the slick trick viper trick for elk, and have had good success. Great bone penetrating design.
You can certainly kill elk deader than a doornail with a rage, but I would say they're not your optimal choice.
If you want to stick with a Rage head, then get their new SS model with the less extreme blade angle. I don't know the exact name offhand, but it was showcased at this years ATA show. There is a video of it online somewhere.
I would ditch that 3 blade chisel tip.
Here's my take on 3-bladed fixed broadheads:
Maganus Snuffer SS: Bent a blade when accidently shot into a 4x4. Sold them all.
Magnus Stinger: Rolled tip when arrow struck solid deer bone. Sold them all.
G5 Montec: Bent blade when shot into 4x4 (accidently). Sold them all.
VPA: Non-vented 125 g. Never a problem with blades bending, tips rolling or spinning true. Kept them.
Muzzy MX-3: Had a couple that wouldn't spin true. Called company and sent the bad ones back. Received six new ones that spin true.
Rage Hypodermic: Spin true, steel, and deadly on many animals.
For elk and moose, I use a sold broadhead and verify each arrow shoots the same as fieldpoints from 60-70 yds.
A word of caution regarding mechanicals, they are known to have problems on hard cornering to/from shots. Broadside is obviously best. What happens if/when the animal turns while arrow is being released?
I killed my first two bulls with Rage three blade. Both broad side shots. Clean pass through. Then hit a bull about 3" too far to the right. Hit the shoulder blade. Arrow went in about 3" and broke off and fell out on my side. That was at 30yds. I watched him run/walk away. I'm using fixed from now on, Muzzy Trocar's fly well.
Moral of the story: fixed blade broadheads. Pick one you like and make it shoot.
I just found a beautiful 6pt bull laying in a pile of bones along w/ an arrow. This GT arrow wore a green schwacker that failed to pass through.
I switched to slick trick viper trick this year for the first time. This is the result 67 yards pass thru bull went 20 yards. I'm sold.
Dang Hunteasy, that viper lopped that bulls head clean off!
If I were going with a Rage, I'd pick the Rage SS or new Hypodermic +P. 1 1/2" cut with a more swept back angle on the blades. Should penetrate great with your powerful rig.
You stated you want a trusty head. Since you made the thread debate free, I will repeat/paraphrase what a great Bowsite poster stated.
"When your hunt hinges on your broadhead, do not depend upon a broadhead with hinges."
I've been shooting Grim Reapers for the last three years on south Texas deer and hogs and have had no problems whatsoever. Devastating wounds going in and out, great blood trails. But I have to agree 100% with the comments above. I know mechanicals' can and do kill a lot of big game. And I know a lot of fixed blades have failed as well on game of all sizes. But for me, when I'm going after big game, and especially when it's an out of state or out of the country type hunt, I wouldn't put my faith in a mechanical. We're planning a trip to Africa and the mechanicals will be staying at home. We will be shooting one of the slick tricks. I love what I read and see about the QAD Exodus, but they are pricey. Good luck no matter what you choose.
To the Original Poster
What made you pick Rage in the first place? Even for deer?
VPA 3 blade, done. No way would I shoot a Rage at an elk.
eatsleep, they are. Last bull I shot w/ one at 30yds I'd swear my arrow came out the other side w/ the same velocity it hit the bull. At least thats what I like to think ;)
probably the sharpest blades out of the box I've seen/felt.
Thank U all for the responses. Reason i went with rage first was out of interest and now they seem to be a good thing and I haven't had an issue but elk I'm in the fence with a mech or gonto a fixed head. Fixed head I have a pack of slick trick standards but haven't played with them. My biggest concern with a mech is penetration if I hit a shoulder. With deer my arrows blow right through anything it seems like but a elk is 3 times the size
Screw those Slick Tricks on and go hunt
Slick Trick user here
VPA solid, anything thing in the world. Forrest
If you hit the shoulder of an Elk you most likely watch him run away with a sore shoulder. Choose your arrow on how it will perfume with a "Proper" hit not a bad one.
ST Vipers. Practice with your field points most of the year (think target not destroyed every year!), put Vipers on to test at long distance for a couple shots just to make sure they fly like field points out of your bow and you are good to go. Vipers are also the only mechanicals I can get to fly true out of a crossbow at 360 fps+. Good luck.
Tracker 12. I hit a bull 4 inches above the shoulder with a Magnus SS 100 gn. 100 yards and he was upside down .
Wac em 3 blade is a very accurate head!
Ramcats also cut massive holes and shoot very well
Slick trick viper tricks or good old German kinetic 2 blades if you're on a budget.
Wac'em are and will always be my first choice as long as they're made.
Think we've 16 different broadheads mentioned in 35 posts. Not bad, but still weak compared to the usual annual thread on this topic.
Just to add to the confusion, I've killed them with Bear razorheads, Zwickey Eskimos, Satellites, Savoras, Martin 5 blade, Muzzy 3 and 4 blade, VPA 3 blade. Muzzy 3 blade 125 and VPA 3 blade 125 are my go-to heads these days, whether with longbow, recurve, or mechanical bow.
Lou
You must have stock in Orville Redenbacher!
Ha! Broadheads aren't a religion with me. Last 25 years I've shot what companies give me.
Forgot about the Muzzy Phantom. Pretty sure I killed one with one of those. If not, I should have. That's a good head for elk too.
I've not used a mechanical on any hunts so cannot give a theory on them. I have used various fixed & cut on contact broadheads with very good results such as Bear Razorhead 3 blade, PSE Brute 3, Muzzy 3 & 4 blade, Snuffer SS, Scirocco 4 blade, Swickey 4 blade, Silver Flame, Magnus Stinger 4 blade, Bear Razor head 4 blade, Wensel Woodsman Elite, Slick Trick Standard 4 blade, Viper Trick 4 blade, Exodus Qad, could be more heads but do not recall at the moment. One thing I can say is I've never had a broadhead failure but have had operator failure! (grin)
Out of the heads I've used I do have favorites, it would be # 1 Exodus Qad & # 2 Viper Trick 4 blades! I'd highly recommend these heads as proven elk killers! Good luck on your elk medicine of choice! Bottom line make sure your heads are RAZOR SHARP!
ElkNut1
I've not used mechanicals on elk, nor will I, but my hunting buddy has used them with mixed results. Personally, I place my faith in a sharp, quality fixed blade (insert brand). You do your part and it will do the same.
Another vote for Wac ems. Slick tricks too. Good Luck.
My buddy whom I hunted with in Australia is a flat out killing machine and shoots everything on that continent, buffalo, camels, red stag, boars, rusas, chitals, whatever. He uses nothing but Rage and swears by them, but he's shooting 80 lbs and really heavy arrows.
Why not a Hybrid? No Limits Grave Digger. You get COC and large mechanical?
"Why not a Hybrid?...you get a COC and large mechanical?"
Adequate penetration on elk is critical. Wide cutting diameter equals less penetration. That's why, IMO.
Put it in the right spot and your rage will be just fine.
Put it in the wrong spot and it won't matter which head you have.
I use Rocket steelheads 100's and that's what I'll be using this fall. I agree 110% with what WapitiBob said..
Case and point,, a few years back a neighbor of the property I hunted on shot a nice deer about two hours before dark and could not find it. He stop me coming out in my truck and he said it was hit right behind the shoulder and his mechanical head (pass thru) didn't open as he found the arrow with blood and blades closed. He trailed it for about 100 yard over on the property I hunted and could not find anymore blood.
Well the next morning myself, my friend Kenny and 2 of his friends met about 30 mins after light. We trailed it for about 150 yds and lost the blood trail.. About a hour after loosing the trail we found the deer by sight about 4/500 yds from hit spot.. He didn't hit it right behind the shoulder but in between the liver and the diaphragm. Cutting the liver.. You could clearly see that the head worked just like it was designed to work.
Ed
any good solid head that will not fail to open and not prone to break that has thick blades instead of thin ones
I shot a wildebeast,blesbok,impala,and a nyala with a hypodermic 100gr. rage and had zero problem.
G5 small game head...all the way!
They all work until they don't. Some just quit working before others.
If a guy can cleanly kill a cape buffalo with a 1" wide solid 2 blade with one arrow from a stick bow, why the f^&k would I use anything that could be reliably compromised?
WHY????????????????????????????
Shoot a high quality Broadhead mechanical or fixed. It makes zero difference. Many tend to overthink it. I truly believe there is no "best". It's all about shot placement. Ever watch the Primos Truth videos? They've been using Rage for years and kill multiple bulls in multiple states every year with them. I find it hilarious that after 30 years of success people still question the abilities of a good quality mechanical. If it makes you nervous and uneasy, go with a top quality fixed blade and call it good. Just make sure you practice regularly with them so you know they hit where you want them too.
Did you really expect to get enough information to settle on a Broadhead to use.) This thread and well as the other 100's on the same topic all boil down to the same findings. Buy a quality head you have confidence it that is accurate out of your bow then do you part and make a lethal shot.
I had the same debate with myself last year, used rage 2 blade with huge success on whitetail but only shooting 60 lbs was concerned for elk, anyway started shooting NAP hellrazors, dead on out to 70 yds. practiced all summer at that distance and killed a nice NM bull at 16yds, frontal shot got about 25" of penetration and bull staggered the 30yds he made it before going down, but still like the massive blood trail on deer. I tell people its not "there's blood,its will you look at all the blood"
I would suggest to spend more time practicing shooting and read Bowsite less time...
AZBUGLER +1
I will be chasing Elk around this fall with 125 grain Nap Killzone's. Their new 125 gn head made for crossbows are a very sturdy head with thicker blades.
Good luck and have fun regardless of what head you choose.
+1 For the Slick Trick Mags... Very durable and fly great.
This year I shot a bull 60 yards quartering away with a Thunderhead 125 out of a Hoyt Faktor 30 at 60lb draw with Carbon Maximas I hit him a little forward but it looked great. I saw 3 drops of blood and then nothing. He is for sure walking. It is all about placement. That Thunderhead puts a mean hole and hits harder than anything I have ever shot.
Also consider what cnelk said. Practice with your VPA 3 blade.
In the spirit of debate free...
Sit down with pen and paper. Make two lists.
First list, what specifically would you want/need in an elk broadhead that makes them different than deer. i.e. better penetration, overall strength of the head, etc. taking into account elk are not just big deer, but on a scale of 3 to 4 times bigger.... body, bones, etc...
Then make a list(s) of strength/weakness of the many different heads you are considering.
Then realize which heads weaknesses you are trying to apply directly against the elks strengths.
How many battles are won pitting one's weakness against the opponents strengths?
". It's all about shot placement. Ever watch the Primos Truth videos? They've been using Rage for years and kill multiple bulls in multiple states every year with them. I find it hilarious that after 30 years of success people still question the abilities of a good quality mechanical."
JMO, I think it's hilarious that people point to a "hunting video" (aka Infomercial) as evidence of anything at all, beyond who is paying the production costs for the show....
I like Tradmt's take on it.
And again JMO...
#1 - if you can't trail a dead Elk without a lot of blood on the ground, maybe you should spend more time trailing live ones
#2 - if you really want blood on the ground, your best bet is an exit wound
#3 - the wider the cut & the more blades & the steeper the blade angle & the duller the point, the less penetration you should expect
#4 - if you hunt smart and shoot well, it won't matter unless TSHTF.
I did a lot of rock climbing as a kid. Rule #2 was to always set up your equipment to be bomb-proof. Rule #1 was to never put yourself in a position where your safety was entirely dependent on your equipment. Mechanicals DO fail. I won't say a 2-blade CANNOT fail, but it happens a lot less often. Nothing spectacular, I suppose, but Gettin' It Done for 10,000 years beats the snot out of a few dozen carefully edited kills on video.
One last thought: I'm a lot less interested in how heavy a blood trail is than in how SHORT it can be.
not a debate, but fact is a mechanical head is NOT designed to make it through tough bones - the flimsy blades and designed, the fold back ..... just not designed for when shots go bad (and they do)
a fixed head works every bit as good as a mech - and when shots go bad, they far exceed performance of a mech head
google it - the number of crumpled and broken mech heads and forum horror stories on them leaves no doubt - they work great when shots are great, they suck when shots go bad
use whatever you want and what is legal though
I usually shoot a plain old 2 blade solid head like a Magnus Classic, Zwickey, Grizzly, Journeyman, etc. I think a strong multi blade is probably better, but I like the simplicity and never lack confidence or have any concern about how they will perform.
Mechanicals obviously work but I would urge that you don't go elk hunting with any doubts about your equipment.
All in all, you've got to make a good hit and minimize the amount of bone contacted.
Broadheads are designed to slice tissue, not bone. That being said, choose the broadhead that will facilitate tissue slicing after it comes in contact with bone.
You can't go wrong with Slick Trick Standards or Qad Exodus. The one other head that I consider just as good is the Wasp Boss.
I would call Jake from State Farm and get his opinion... I hear he is reachable all hours and the call is free.
Russell-No disrespect as everyone has the right to their opinion, but we have had a lot of bowhunters take multiple animals with our Magnus Stinger and Snuffer ss broadheads. No broadhead made is indestructible. We offer a lifetime replacement guarantee if you do bend or break a blade or broadhead at any time regardless of what it is shot into. All you have to do is email us a photo of the broadhead or blade with your name and address and we will replace. The picture attached is a Magnus Stinger 4 blade which was sticking thru a moose solid leg joint on the opposite side of the animal. thanks
Here is Noah Mckinnon with his Bull Elk taken with a Magnus Stinger, we have had a lot of guys take elk with our heads.
Thirty more posts to get to 100! The list of broadheads is growing nicely but still some left out.
Come on guys!
Mike, Stinger is an outstanding elk head. Pinned a bedded bull to a tree with a 125, through both scapula (thin section to be fair). Fly very well and reasonably priced....killed a bunch of stuff with that head.
True dat Lou.... lots of heads out there have killed lots of elk. Likely even those apple corer heads.... =D
Magnus has the best warranty and support in the business. The broadheads that were damaged, they replaced them without question.
With Muzzy, I had to pay postage and send them to them for support.
Magnus wants a picture via email. Cant get any better than that.
Under the right situation there is no broadhead that is "bullet proof" they can all be broke bent or chipped! What happens to them after they pass through or not is irrelevant to me as long as they did their job, to date I've not been disappointed in heads I've chosen to hunt with. I haven't had any bounce off any critters yet but I do make sure my setups are reasonably tuned to each individual head.
ElkNut1
Broadheads left out?
OK, here's a blast from the past -
Punchcutters
Punchcutters! Now we're talking!
Let's not forget the Serpentine, either. I'm sure some elk we're killed with that somewhere.
6 blade Wasps. I know of elk killed with that one too.
I've used many of the brands, at all price points, and Magnus Stingers keep ending up in my quiver. Razor sharp & shoot like target points.
This should be entertaining! I'll wait til I get home and can crack open a few brews and some peanuts! ;-)
6 Blade Wasp - yep, I remember those!!
Any farther back and you'll start to get into the Gong Show days.
Rocky Mountain broadheads , oh ! oh! Those haven't been around since the 80's .
i plan to use magnus hornets this yr.. they were great for deer!!
"No broadhead made is indestructible"
some are made far, far better than others though as far as durability and toughness
I always scratch my head when I see someone tout the effectiveness of any broadhead when hitting (major)bone. I figure if I hit the shoulder, spine or any other major bone, I screwed up BIGTIME and cannot expect a high probability of recovery. That is why I would never use that as a determining factor in broadhead choice.
Kinda like saying you want to use a shorter lighter bat, so that when you swing and miss, it won't hurt so much! ;-)
"Little info or help from the veteran elk hunters out there. Im a western game/whitetail hunter but have never hunted elk. Mainly deer and antelope. My broadhead of choice is a rage chisel tip 3 blade head on a gold tip kinetic kaos weighing in at 450 grains. Bow is going to be a elite impluse 34 30 inch 70lbs. Bow shoots right at 298 fps with this setup. My question for you is, is a rage a good head for elk? Ive never had an issue with them and im heading to utah mid sept this fall for my first elk hunt and what a trusty head but not sure if a mechanical is the way to go for an elk? any imput and thoughts or suggestions are great appreciated. thanks"
The new Rage+P 2 blade is a great head for Elk, along with the 2 blade Rage SS and the older version 40KE. I have killed my last 18-19 bulls with expandables, and the Rages have been by far the best "killing" broadhead I have used, either fixed or expandable. I have PLENTY of these--^ to back that up...
Why Single-Bevel Broadheads? By Dr. Ed Ashby
There probably isn't a BH on the market these days that just won't work, but I'd steer away from most large mechanical heads for elk. I've used Teken II's and Rocket Steelheads and they worked fine, but it seems neither model is made anymore. I'd recommend the original 4-blade Muzzys or Slick Tricks. They're a simple design, don't windplane badly because they are an inch in diameter, but w/ the 4 blade design you actually get a lot of cutting surface. Relatively easy to tune and tend to penetrate exceedingly well.
The tekenII, is that the same BH that guy bounced of the "fire bull" from tines up? If you haven't seen the video it is worth its weight on this topic.. heck its well worth the watch.
Then take note of his redemption...
My dad shot 6 blade wasps...I remember as a kid I'd watch him put those together....they looked awesome but fragile compared to today's better heavy duty "elk " heads.
I'm sure there were plenty of shredded fingers from guys trying to get those together
Billy, back then we had shredded fingers and cuts from everything. Our bow quivers didn't even have hoods when they first came out. When a guy came back to camp with blood on his hands, just as likely to be his as from an animal. The early replaceable blade broadheads were one more hazard.
We just rubbed dirt on it, took a shot of whiskey, and soldiered- on.
I never shot anything with the 6 blade but hunted with guys who did.
Maybe I missed it, but I haven't seen anyone mention the old Razorback 5's. One less blade to slice you to the bone than the Wasp's! Ha!
Lou I remember seeing those old quikee quivers that clamped on the limbs separately. No hood...accident waiting to happen.
They tried to reintroduce those razorbacks! I never could get the originals to fly, bigger barrel rolls than the red baron.
My favourite vintage BH has to be the mohawk. I'm pretty sure they'd cut a rabbit in half.
Yep, I remember those old wasp heads, blades were paper thin!
ElkNut1
Ohiohunter: "The tekenII, is that the same BH that guy bounced of the "fire bull" from tines up? If you haven't seen the video it is worth its weight on this topic.. heck its well worth the watch."
I couldn't find the part where he "bounced off" the Elk??? I did see the part where he took an 88 yard un-ethical ego shot and the bull moved before the arrow impacted and it struck him in the scapula. Is that what you were referring to?
I call that bouncing off, but thats mech shooters for ya.
Good to know what you call "Bouncing off"! LMAO!
Considering a field point would have out penetrated that mech, yea it pretty much bounced off. Mechanicals are just as unethical for elk as an 88yd shot. Whats funny is he took the exact same shot with a coc fixed blade and got an exit wound.
The more you know, the less likely you'll use mechanicals. I'm glad I could educate you some, stick around you might learn some more b/c its pretty clear you know dick.
I know dick too, he's swell.
From: ohiohunter Date: 11-Apr-16
Mechanicals are just as unethical for elk as an 88yd shot.
LMBO!!!!!!! :)
that's odd Rut Nut I look at it as just the opposite
if a mistake happens when I shoot at an elk - and they do from time to time .... I want a head that performs when shots go bad. Lets face it, a 2 blade Zwickey will kill every elk a 2 blade Rage will when the shots go right ..... but when that one shot in 50 goes bad and you hit heavy bone?
the Rage will likely fail, that Zwickey will give you the best penetration possible.
Do you drive to your elk hunting hunts without a spare tires, expecting the 4 you have on your truck to never fail ? that's the way I look at a fixed head vs mech head .....
The never ending debate! (grin)
I called a bull to my son to 30 yards, he shot the bull low in the heart & off he bolted. We tracked him for aprox 300 yards & the bull was still alive but couldn't get up. We carefully slipped to 15 yards & my son put another arrow into him to finish him off. The arrow struck the bull behind front shoulder & limply sagged towards the ground with fletchings touching ground, got aprox 1-1/2" penetration, barely through the hide. -- He accidentally had grabbed his end arrow in his quiver & shot the bull with a field point, yes it nearly bounced out! Not much penetration in a field point on elk with 70#
ElkNut1
The good news is that in 138 days I'll be taking my broad heads out after elk...
No debate here...
O-I-knohunter: Perhaps you would like to compare results???
Mechanical bh fail more than fixed bh. The difference isn't marginal, its substantial. Anyone who chooses the lesser is delusional w/ the thought "It can't happen to me".
Good luck on you're 2500mi round trip without a spare.
Stealthy, when shots go bad in the opposite direction and you get guts with that little bity hole or even a pass through on hi double lungs you get no blood trail. I've witnessed this.
The bigger the animal the bigger the hole I want and I want it with accuracy in high wind conditions, 40 yards being my max. The bigger the blades the heavier the arrow and FOC I use. With the new heads coming out, beefier, thicker blades, better blade retention and some even made of steel now, we are getting passthroughs and breaking bones. Stop living in the early 90 Mechanical BH with flimsy blades and light arrows. They are doing a much better job now and have a lot of animals on the ground in shorter order because of them.This includes Rage which I am still not a fan of.
Debate free....Constructive and positive. LMAO!!!!
Magnus broad heads are tried and true. Great broad head and great broad head company! I like razor sharp cut on contact broad heads with heavy arrows behind them.
From: stealthycat Date: 11-Apr-16
that's odd Rut Nut I look at it as just the opposite
Do you drive to your elk hunting hunts without a spare tires, expecting the 4 you have on your truck to never fail ? that's the way I look at a fixed head vs mech head .....
I never said that....................what I said was, I don't understand folks that make their choice of broadhead based on what will happen when they screw up bigtime and hit major bone.
You're using a bad analogy there with the NO SPARE TIRE thing.
A much better analogy would be: choosing a specific tire based on which one will perform better when you screw up bigtime and drive into a lake! ;-)
Great job, guys! I hoped for 100 posts, and now that we're arguing about Elkman's impressive record on bulls with mechs, this should keep going for awhile.
Yep, ya gotta love it. ELKMAN's probably killed more elk with mechanicals than the self-professed broadhead police have even seen...yet they want to argue that using said mechanicals are as unethical as "an 88yd shot." LMAO!
As I've posted before - my buddy with whom I hunted in Australia kills dozens of big animals every year. Water buffalo, camels, boars, Red stags, Rusas, Sambar, Chital, Fallow, whatever. Even a few feral donkeys. They hunt year round there. He has killed more big animals than ANYONE on this thread, guaranteed. He's a stone-cold assassin, world-class bowhunter. Wayne Preece. Also produces hunting videos, besides being an outfitter now.
The only broadheads he uses are Rage.
I don't use mechs except on turkeys, but after hunting with him, watching his videos, and seeing his massive, impressive trophy display, my opinion of Rages turned upside down.
Well Jaq, I look forward to seeing the entry and exit wound you get on your elk this year... with a rage. You get a rib pass through at 30yds w/ your trad gear and I'll buy a pack of rages.
I agree big hurt. I also know a lot of people do not have a clue as to how much energy their rigs are putting out to justify an energy eating mechanical. The hunters on this board are barely a fraction of all hunters.
One department store pops up and now everyone is a hunter. When bass pro showed up 10min down the road everybody and their brother's sister became a hunter overnight, and their equipment choices are 100% dictated by the tv show "pros".
I said up front in my post that I don't use mechs (except on turkeys). Never have. Won't recommend them to anyone for elk, either, but I can't argue with the success of those like ELKMAN and Chuck Adams who do. Pretty sure Randy Ulmer does too, and he's killed a couple of big animals.
TBM, I mentioned "big animals". Unless there's something you aren't telling us, you've killed exactly one elk. And I believe you may not have killed one other elk with your fixed-blade.
I sure don't disagree that way too many people hunt with way wrong equipment for their limited abilities, and it's gotten worse with chain stores displacing pro shops and TV shows showing a lot of the absolute wrong things.
"Facts are facts..." Said by a guy who never lets them stand in his way...
"Elk are marshmellows compated to hogs which are cinder blocks."
So how is it that you ended up losing one?
Really interesting to see some of your ideas and opinions here....
Im gonna list out all the broad heads I've personally killed elk with, bear with me the list is kinda long. Savora-1 Rocky Mountian Supreme 1 Zwickey 5 Wasp Hammer 100 - 3 Rocky mountian Ironhead 125-2 Vortex 1 Rocket Ultimate steel 3 Thunderhead 125-5 Thunderhead 100-14 Shuttle T 15
That should up to 50 that i have killed 49 with fixed heads 1 with mechanical. On top of that i have watched another 43 killed killed with arrows by friends and family all with fixed heads.
But I'm not gonna come on here and tell people that a fixed head is the only way to kill an elk....I feel mechanicals have come a long way in the last 10 years...And ElKMAN seems to kill the shit out of them with mechanicals ;)
Seeems to me there is more than one way to skin a cat !!
Flame away keyboard cowboys
This is headed down the "ugly" road!
Only 50 elk, Michael? Meh..
How many HOGS have you killed? That's the real test - especially on the elk forum..
Ya know, there was a time about a year and a half to two years ago, when we didn't have a 100+ thread about BHs and it lasted quite a while... many months. I'd begun to think that the days of BH debates were over.
What was I thinking?
No piggies Jaq ! No turkeys either.......Remember we have salmon in the spring;) Oh yeah you know all about our spring salmon!
If they can talk about pigs and turkeys i would say salmon fit right in !!!
So you have to have killed stuff with 50 different broadheads to be an expert on broadheads but only wound one elk and kill another to be an expert on how much easier elk are to kill than a hog?
I do get amused when some chuckle head with no experience tells me what's required to be successful.
Montec G5. Strong and true.
There's a ton of elk slaying experience on this thread....I think you shoot the equipment you're confidence is built in...until it isn't anymore. I've bought and practiced with a crapload of different heads just to see what they're about... but always go back to Slicks because they've worked for me for the last 10 years. I owe a once in half a lifetime bighorn ram that I made a really poor shot on to the damage done by a slick trick. Granted sheep aren't elk or hogs but the tags are tougher to get.
Jaquomo, Im curious, do you know your friend Wayne's arrow set up? Over all weight with BH, FOC percentage? 70 lb Bow?
Sounds like TBM's blowing his own horn again. Im guessing here, but Hogs at 10 yards at a feeder out of a blind is not the same as elk. Good on him that he is so lucky to have killed so many animals in his life.
I've not killed a lot of Elk but I did have 6 pass through and 2 that nearly poked through the opposite side and all with 3 different Mechanicals. None with a Rage. I have a tag for this year in in AZ and plan to use a mechanical for that as well. I learned years ago a haevy arrow with high FOC it just as important as the BH I use. Im at 600 grains total weight with 275 grains starting at 2.5 inches behind the head to the tip of the BH total weight up front.
In Ohio's video, I agree with everything that ELkMAN had said about it and i will add that I bet the shooters arrow weight was less than Adequate to be shooting a mechanical.Just my 02.
Here's another head for you Jaq. Anyone ever shoot a Kolpin BH? the blades were offset.
This thread lived up to ALL expectations! LMBO!!!! :)
From: Willieboat Date: 11-Apr-16
Flame away keyboard cowboys
From: WapitiBob (mobile)Sent from Mobile Phone Date: 11-Apr-16
I do get amused when some chuckle head with no experience tells me what's required to be successful.
Shot selection, and shot placement are ALL that matters when killing Elk.
Rutnut "I do get amused when some chuckle head with no experience tells me what's required to be successful"
What else would you expect from the internet and a questions that ends in what is the BEST.
Tracker12, very true! Hopefully the Thread Starter is going over the more solid info here & digesting it properly. If you notice the guys who are killing lots of elk are not recommending a single head, we are recommending a variety of heads that can get the job done. It just so happens that the overwhelming type heads are fixed or cut on contact heads over a mechanical head.
Hopefully he can see that & choose a respectable head & get to practicing with it so he has the utmost confidence in it! If he chooses a mechanical so be it, it's his choice. If not, that's his choice too.
lots of good heads out there, do your part in your setup & tuning & the head will do its part! (grin)
ElkNut1
Tracker- I understand and actually agree with you!
I was referring to the verbage used in those 2 responses: "keyboard cowboys" and "chuckle heads"! : )
I've eaten over 20 bulls, shot with fixed heads, where the arrow didn't pass thru. They must not have gotten the memo.
Muzzy also will do a great job for Elk
I've eaten over 20 bulls, shot with fixed heads, where the arrow didn't pass thru. They must not have gotten the memo.
My take on this post is elk still die if the arrow didn't punch a exit hole.
My last 2 elk didn't have a exit hole either. Both died in, say 7 or less seconds. Both killed with a expandable.
Ed
Ohiohunter, why do you seem like your getting so bent out of shape?? Where and what part of this thread is doing this to you??
Respectfully asked Ed
Somebody forgot their meds.
Na, I find it more entertaining than anything. Plus I'm bored at work.
That elk I found was probably victim of CWD. Found another one that had a fist sized hole by her heart, couldn't figure out if it was shot and lost or a cat kill. The date relative to the season she should have been far more decomposed, she wasn't at all.
I also found a nice bull w/ a schwacker laying in the pile of bones, I'll try to post some pics.
You know, I actually went and drew this out.... Compared to a 1 1/8" 2-blade, a 2" mech buys you all of 7/16" forgiveness on shot placement. And JMO, when you've screwed the pooch... missing by a half inch LESS on a target the size of an Elk's thoracic cavity.... Just seems unlikely to provide Salvation.
Yeah, I know, the big mech is actually 7/8" wider, and 7/8" is wide enough to be a legal broadhead (which is pretty telling, if you think about it) so that's like shooting 'em twice. OK, so you've made a really rotten shot with a standard-width head; is hitting the animal "a second time" with a skinny head really going to help (shot placement being both 7/16" better and 7/16" worse)??
So yeah, we have guys here who've done well with them... so far. But if you ask me, that says more about their skill set than their equipment. If you take only smart shot angles and stick to slam-dunk shooting distance, I'd expect it would take a while to break a well-made and well-designed mechanical.
But should it ever be that TSHTF.... I just figure my chances are better with a substantial, albeit narrower head which has no moving parts and fewer potential points of failure. Call me cocky, but I think I'm more likely to hit bone in the shoulder (or spine) than too far back.
And heck, you guys wanna talk real-world experience... My money's on Larry Hatfield making everybody here look like a chump. Three or four HUNDRED bears and God-only-knows how many of everything else and I don't believe he has ever hit an animal that he didn't collect. Of course the cynics will complain that he's only used ONE broadhead in all that time, but if it ain't broke....
Ohio, as you may know, that head is designed to open up inside the cavity. Theory is it keeps the blades sharp not cutting hair or hitting bones on the way in. Problem is it leave a small hole going in and if it doesn't get an exit it most likely wont leave a very good blood trail. Probably wasn't a very heavy arrow to begin with.
GOTBOW, did you just say its good to get penetration and an exit wound????Tada!
If you can get through to at least one, you've made a difference, my work is done here boys lol.
"you don't reach expert status in the broadhead department until you have killed with 50 DIFFERENT TYPES OF BROADHEADS. Who on here has killed with 50 different types, configurations of heads."
"It is ridiculous to think other game cannot be used to test killing power factors like penetration and size."
How does that work exactly? You can't make an informed decision on broadheads without killing something with each one but you can decide what works best on one type of animal by shooting a completely different type? It's either one way or the other, which is it?
Exit wounds are nice, but they are NEVER going to be a guarantee on Elk no matter what equipment you shoot. So why not have the one hole you ARE guaranteed to have be a big one? If you need two holes to track an Elk you may need some practice...JS
I have shot the old style Snuffers for 20 years now. I'm seriously considering going to a smaller head. The damage my snuffers do is amazing. However, they are temperamental and take extra work to fly well. I shoot fingers so the 150 grains requires me to shoot a very stiff and heavy arrow with added weight in the front. (Big Game 100+). Every animal I have ever hit with this set up has died quickly. A few years ago, my buddy shot a bull with a magnus stinger too far back. I jumped the bull the next morning and finished him off. The attached pic is of the hole from my snuffer. I'll post again with a pic from his stinger. Pics don't do it justice. We were both blown away by the difference in the damage done. So why am I considering changing again? Just considering. Odds are if I'm lucky enough to draw a tag again this year, I'll still have my old style snuffers.
Here is the pic from the Stinger. Not the broadhead's fault the elk needed a finishing shot. That was 100% placement. However, looking at the two entrance holes was quite eye opening.
BTW, no exit as my shot was a hard quartering to shot and well my buddy's shot was not well placed.
Case in point...^ --- Cut on contact FIXED blade heads= NO EXIT.
Yes, I am a cut on contact guy who rarely gets an exit hole. (only one of my elk had a pass through) I seem to always have the knack of hitting the opposite leg or else a frontal shot. However, I've never had any trouble tracking a snuffer shot animal and have watched several fall over before getting out of sight.
I love how you guys, elk-wo-man, put words into other people's mouths. I'm beginning to think Bowsite is loaded with women.
"Exit wounds are nice, but they are NEVER going to be a guarantee on Elk no matter what equipment you shoot. So why not have the one hole you ARE guaranteed to have be a big one? If you need two holes to track an Elk you may need some practice...JS" Teach me old wise one, teach me please as I cannot find any animal that has only one hole in it, please grace me with your infinite wisdom... and while you're down there.
"BTW, no exit as my shot was a hard quartering to shot and well my buddy's shot was not well placed." "Case in point...^ --- Cut on contact FIXED blade heads= NO EXIT."
Had this been shot with an energy deficient mechanical I guarantee this would have never been recovered as the penetration would have been hindered by at least 50% IMO. We all know how well stingers penetrate and how well mechanicals do NOT. If you think they are remotely comparable you are delusional.
This topic boils down to odds, I prefer them to be heavily in my favor.
Ohio, Im talking about that head in particular. and no-where did I say anything about not getting penetration or an exit wound. Been saying we need that all along so this is no TaDa!
That head with it's design if it doesn't get a pass through regardless of how much penetration it gets (could have went to the opposite leg) it doesn't leave a good blood trail due to the size of the entrance hole.
I get pass through s and great penetration on elk with 2 inch mechanicals and my arrow set up. there, I spelled it out for you once again.
ELKMAN I totally agree with your statement but I strive to make my set up get pass troughs so the only thing to stop it is the off side leg bone. But a huge hole going in is why I use the heads I choose.
I know I know... geez guys, tough crowd.
From: Teeton Date: 12-Apr-16
Ohiohunter, why do you seem like your getting so bent out of shape?? Where and what part of this thread is doing this to you??
Respectfully asked Ed
Ed, I was wondering the same thing. The only thing I can come up with is maybe Ohiohunter cashed in his entire 401k about 15 years ago and put it all in some fixed blade broadhead stock.........................or maybe the String Tracker! ;-)
Ohio, ok you got me hook, line and sinker! LOL
BTW, baiting is illegal here in Az! :)
Almost, I thought for sure the bumper dumper would take off and make me millions, well all I ended up with was an unobservant husband and a half naked wife hanging on for dear life screaming down the highway. Now we make the bumper dumper with a seat belt.
OhIknohunter: "I love how you guys, elk-wo-man, put words into other people's mouths. I'm beginning to think Bowsite is loaded with women."
Sounds like OhIknohunter may have something against women?
It all boils down to one thing OhIkno: "RESULTS"
Anytime you want to compare them, you just let me know... Have a nice day. ;-)
You talkin to me elkturd? Cuz you spelled O-H-I-O wrong, its ok, I can't expect everyone to have a 3rd grade degree. Good day sir
When one tries to disparage someone else's results with nothing more than their opinion, a wise person quickly realizes they're quickly losing credibility, so they let it go. Those not so wise have nothing to back up their opinion, other than their opinion, so they start with the namecalling, hoping others don't notice how childish and petulant one sounds. Might work in third grade, not so much in the adult world.
I honestly could care less. As I've said before, I'm getting paid as I type.
I'm glad you THINK my opinion is based on nothing, perhaps you haven't been following the thread. Maybe your opinion should have some validity itself. Furthermore the name calling has been mutual, and subtle, though I'm perplexed by your intimate knowledge of my thought process. I didn't know the interweb was big boy world? Imagine that, oh and outstanding performance with the double negative.
United we stand, divided we chew each other up! Grow up guys, everyone is still entitled to their opinion.
Name calling is a mechanism for the those who lack the intellect to further their point of view.
Unfortunately the fact that you don't care speaks volumes about your character (or lack there of). Grow up.
What am I suppose to care about? 90% of this is forgotten after I press enter.
I can't carry on a discussion when people put words into my mouth, at which point I feel like I'm talking to a woman. I don't visit bowsite for this interaction, I can get it at home. Again, the pleasant play on screen names was mutual initially incited by not me and it seems someone edited some post. Eh, I'll be the bad guy if it satisfies you. I categorize uninformed bias as childish as well, please heed your own advice.
But to reiterate my point, I don't agree with mechanicals being used on elk. Majority of people lack the energy to make them efficient. Once again I'll repeat some guides do not allow mechanicals in their camp and I'll add in some states they are illegal. Good day.
I wouldn't go by what some States and outfitters allow and don't.
For years Archery equipment of any type was NOT allowed to be used when bear hunting in New Jersey. (They changed it for this coming season)
I guess until now, they must have had a special strain of bears that were IMMUNE to ALL archery tackle! ;-)
I'd just like to add one more thought to this... um... discussion:
We can probably all agree that a 180 grain bullet traveling around 3K feet per second will penetrate better than any BH on the market. I hope we can agree on that. So, it's been my observation over the past 20 or so years that the VAST majority of elk I've heard of being wounded and lost were shot with a rifle.
Why? Poor shot placement; usually due to the hunter making an undisciplined or irresponsible shot.
Use what you like, but know the cababilities of your equipment and your own self.
Ohio That's not saying much for the guide and I would think if a guide wanted to make money he wouldn't tell somebody what they could or couldn't use if it was legal in that state.
If I guide told me I couldn't use a Mechanical BH in a state is was legal id tell him to pound sand and take my money to somebody who wants to guide, not force their BS opinion on me.
If a State has the rule its not a legal head to use, I've no beef with that and if I wanted to hunt it bad enough I do have slick tricks to use. However IMO that State needs to get out of the dark ages but im certainly not going to force that opinion on them, they need to come to their own conclusions.
The main thing that's made me gravitate toward mechanicals is they are effected less in flight by a cross wind than a big fixed blade. But Muzzeys and Slicks are better than most fixed with that regard.
I've field dressed a lot of elk and in my experience archery kills are more likely to have an exit wound over rifle kills. Bullets, like broadheads come in many different designs. A Barnes and a Berger are dramatically different but both are fantastic when used appropriately. My 7mm with 180s almost never exits but kills great. Arrows from my longbow almost always exit.
Due the way bullets kill, I want to dump all the energy in the animal and create major trama on thin-skinned game. With an arrow, I want deep penetration and an exit wound. I want as much cutting as I can get during that penetration, but not at the expense of penetration.
Lots of ways to effectively kill stuff and they all have a balance of pluses and minuses.
AZ, I'd have to say its more of a standard of ethics w/ those particular guides, and chances are if you're of that opinion they'd rather you keep your money.
Rut nut, I'm by no means basing my position on their standards, I base it off of mine. Its just a fact that some do not realize.
Sage, I could see a cross wind as concern when launching past 30yds in high winds at muleys and pronhorn, medium game, but an elk? Hypothetically if I had to use a mechanical on an elk I sure wouldn't be worried about the wind b/c I wouldn't take more than a 20 maybe 30yd shot.
From: ohiohunter Date: 15-Apr-16
Rut nut, I'm by no means basing my position on their standards, I base it off of mine.
Then why even bring it up? It proves absolutely nothing. (except maybe that certain "entities" have a bias against expandables ;-)
I said b/c not everyone is aware of it, and I'd venture to say seasoned guides have witnessed and been part of more hunts than the common hunter. I'm also sure they've had their fair share of wounded lost unhappy mechanical shooting clients. I should be used to poor reading comprehension by now.
What is your point? I'd rather you address it instead of having a 10post exchange before you finally get to it. I've said my piece, please state yours. B/c as it stands you are offering nothing in return by trying to pick apart my every word, I'm flattered by your interest in me but I'm currently off the market so go hump someone elses leg.
LOL! OK- I see you just don't "get it"...............and probably never will! ;-)
But your juvenile posts are sure enlightening the rest of us! ;-)
I think Toxic or Cyclone broadheads would be good for elk. Have you seen what they do to a water jug?!?!?! Why risk using a mechanical when you can achieve that level of devastation with a fixed blade???
This thread has exceeded my wildest dreams, and I have pretty high expectations for any broadhead or arrow weight thread.
Great job, gang!
Only 24 more posts to hit 200 and we will have resolved....exactly....nothing!
Excellent!
The ops question was answered in the first 5 posts! lol
A rage can't kill an elk unless it has a severely over spined shaft pushing it and of course you'll have to be 50% FOC minimum, which will only give you 8" of penetration.. exactly. Anything less and you might as well stay in camp and play cabelas big game hunter.
I think the Toxic BH is very interesting. It looks like it would cut a chunk out of the animal, basically. I could imagine that bleeding a great deal, but it seems that design would have trouble against a rib. Anyone used them on elk?
Knapped Obsidian, from a compound. Did that solve it?
So Jaquomo ,, What's your favorite mechanical head for elk?? Mines the rocket steelhead 100 !!
By the way I'm # 181... :)
Ed
Guess my Rage 2 blade and I should have stayed in camp on this fine day then...^ (I'm with Jaq, I think we can get this turd to 200) ;-)
Casey,, no way you killed that with a Rage. I just read it on the internet that Rage will "NOT" kill a elk.
I really did !! Just read it above.. :)
I was looking at an outfitters web site last year and he claimed he wouldn't allow any hunter to use a mech BH while being guided by him or his guides then a few weeks later I saw his outfit on a TV show guiding a couple TV show guys that are sponsored by Rage and they killed a big bull....lol...Outfitter is kinda full of BS !! If you can get in close and hit them right IMO any BH will work. Myself, I'm a believer in Magnus Snuffer SS but I did smoke a bull a couple years ago with a Montec that I thought was one of my Snuffers that I had bought when I couldn't find any Snuffers to buy.
Magnus is a great broadhead.
How about these old Brownings. Not sure what they were called? Picked them up at an estate sale fore $15 each.
From: Jaquomo Date: 16-Apr-16
This thread has exceeded my wildest dreams, and I have pretty high expectations for any broadhead or arrow weight thread. Great job, gang!
Only 24 more posts to hit 200 and we will have resolved....exactly....nothing!
Excellent!
AMEN Jaq! :) 187 and counting................. ;-)
Ahh, jingalls, the Serpentine! Thanks for posting it. I'd requested it earlier. That one caused some G&F departments to revise their broadhead requirements when it first appeared.
I'm sure they've killed elk, too. Another option from which to choose!
Dang - too bad arrow weight and KE/momentum weren't included in this thread. Then we could have settled the entire elk equipment debate in one fell swoop and never argue about it again, so long as everyone follows the "rules".
Nudging the turd...
It's amazing to scan a thread that has so many experienced contributors who have been successful using very different set-ups (compound, trad, fixed, mechanical, both) only to find such a prolific poster that seems hell bent on trying to convince them the there is only 1 way to skin this cat (his).
Bob called it - silly.
With all the post Jaquomo and RUTNUT have posted here it might make 300.....Leaders of the yearly BH post.
It's pretty safe to say that most broadheads on the market can be put into three categories really...good, better and best.
Most anything works, make your own decisions as to what compromises your comfortable with and live with the results.
"Dang - too bad arrow weight and KE/momentum weren't included in this thread. Then we could have settled the entire elk equipment debate in one fell swoop and never argue about it again, so long as everyone follows the "rules"."
C'mon man, you know it will never be settled, this topic always blows up regardless of which category it is in.
"Guess my Rage 2 blade and I should have stayed in camp on this fine day then...^ (I'm with Jaq, I think we can get this turd to 200) ;-)"
I'm pretty sure that elk is still alive.
if you want to shoot thru shoulder blade shoot a cut on contact HD 2 blade head like a steel force . if you want to shoot a rage shoot the new 1.5" ones.I may be shooting those soon,if they test well and hold up on axis shoulder blades(I will test on dead bucks). otherwise your set up sounds great. I have killed exactly 20 bulls with a bow, with all kind of heads, and I dont like vented blades, (to much friction on inside rear of vent going thru tissue) and three blade heads dont make the cracks thru bone in a single plane, like a two blade head. a larger 2 blade always out preforms a 3 blade when shooting thru bones in my tests.And no conical points like the wasp..those were heads the worse for pentration..
Hey, I only have 12 posts on this thread (13 now) and all but one have been flushing the toilet to keep the turd moving down the pipe, or yanking the Late TBM's chain for his ridiculous posts.
However I did make one informative post listing the broadheads with which I have killed elk, and another noting my Aussie friend with his considerable success with Rages (which I don't endorse).
One informative post is about all you should expect from me. You should know that by now.
:-)
I killed about 35 elk with broadheads.............with a 6-blade Wasp (1975 version), Bear Razorhead with bleeder blade, MA-3L, MA-3L with Shick Injector blades glued on, Zwickey Eskimo 4-blade, Zwickey Delta 4-blade, Zwickey Delta 2-blade with a Magnus style bleeder blade inserted in a slot like a Bear Razorhead has, Thunderhead 125, Rocky Mt Iron Head 125, Rocky Mt Ti 100, and an Ulmer Edge 125. The first and last heads noted above are not fondly regarded by many bowhunters. Never-the-less, the elk shot with them died and tasted really good. We are closer to 200 posts now!
"And no conical points like the wasp..those were heads the worse for pentration.."
Are conicals even available on todays market? I don't recall seeing any.
Figger it's my turn to cop a squat on this debate free broadhead debate. I will echo the millions of folks who agree it's a better idea to use a fixed head with no chance of the blades not opening rather than a mechanical which USUALLY doesn't fail... but might??? Flush, wipe, carry on.
You guys are still going at it ?? Wow !!
Unless someone snuck in on me while I was typing, I am post 200 so that surely means that my broadhead is the only one anyone should use. Of course that would require most of you to completely change your set up and do a ton of new tuning. But post 200 proves everyone should hunt with old style snuffers. :)
Great job, Darrell! You win a 1956 Mohawk expandable-mechanical head for post #200!
Sweet! I'll add it my collection of other worthless stuff.
Usually, when a thread gets down to two or three guys just trading insults, I quit opening it but this one has been very entertaining for some reason.
Carry on...
From: jdee Date: 16-Apr-16
With all the post Jaquomo and RUTNUT have posted here it might make 300.....Leaders of the yearly BH post.
Well, this is my 12th reply so far, so I think I am getting way more credit than I deserve! ;-)
I'm a fixed blade guy! I've always been a little Leary of mechanicals! I know guys use them but just not for me.
I tune my bows so that my fixed blades fly like my field points out to 100 plus yards!
I think for an elk a good sharp penetrated head is good! Elk are big critters!
This elk I shot with a Ramcat broadhead. One of the quickest kills I've ever had (great shot placement). Bull took off on a trot and died within about 5 seconds
Posts that only talk about the post count.... should not count towards the, um, post count..... heheheheheh
I love that pic Justin.... it has the look of "this is so awesome, but oh my... what I've gotten myself into...."
A good (sharp) fixed blade that shoots well in your bow. I am really liking the new VPA 125 (vented). It has a shallower blade angle than their originals and really good penetration. Plus I can sharpen them to hair shaving sharpness.
Practice with them before the season, then sharpen and go kill something.
I prefer the Trageditional head.
Did you chisel that out on company time???
Nope, I believe it came from a mammoth found frozen in a glacier. It was buried 1/8th of an inch in a rib. They determined the mammoth died of old age. In a cave close to the find, they also found the remains of what appeared to be a clan of early humans. Testing showed they were protien deficient.
That's funny right there^ I don't care which side your on!
Something tells me next time a guy trys to post a "DEBATE FREE" BH thread....he will get the error message; SIR, THERE IS NO SUCH THING!
Bull taken with a wac em 3 blade broadhead
This bull I hammered with wac em three blade also. He dropped dead within 15 feet
Shot this bull at a severe quartering away angle with a slick trick viper trick. I'm not for certain but I don't know if an expandable would have penetrated as well on that steep angle and killed this bull. But it may have.
I'm a firm believer in fixed blades and penetration with elk. I think as much penetration as you can get is a good thing. Elk are big critters.
Outstanding bulls Justin! I agree...fixed blades, max penetration, pass thru if possible.
Wow! Very nice line up.
I'd like the "ragers" to note how far ermine had to track his bull. You don't need 2" blades to take down an elk in sight, IMO you're flirting w/ danger.
This Bull went less than 35 yards with a RAGE... ;-)
All I have to say is that bull deserved better (hanging my head in prayer).
LOL! What does that mean ohiohunter? He would be better off dying from a fixed head? Dang ELKMAN! You've shot some dandies!
Let's be honest here. If a guy is shooting an adequate weight arrow and 65 to 80 pounds, what difference is it going to make? If a shot goes bad and hits the bull in the shoulder bone where it is heaviest, does it matter if the head is fixed or mechanical? It's probably not going to result in a found bull. If it's shot through the ribs, it will be killed regardless of the head. If you shoot low draw weight and/or low draw length, you probably shouldn't shoot a mechanical head at elk unless it is a small diameter head with a reputation for great penetration like a Steelhead or Snyper (or equivalent Rage SS, 40KE, Hypodermic +P).
I would love to see a study on recovery rates on elk using both types of heads. I bet there wouldn't be much difference. There is always the inexperienced guy that will screw the mechanical on thinking that is the magic potion and go and screw up. But what are the odds he would do better with a fixed head?
For those of you reading this thread and wondering what to use, listen to the guys that say: "forget about long shots", "get close", "have a well tuned bow", "have a sharp broadhead (of whatever well-made variety that fits your bows performance level)", and "take humane shots". Just know that there are lots of good modern broadheads out there of both varieties that will get the job done. Both have advantages and disadvantages. Put either in the right spot and post pics/hero shots.
The nice part about a cut on contact broadhead is you don't have to shoot 65 to 80 pounds. I have taken elk and I shoot 52 lbs always get complete penetration.
Broadhead choice should be dependent on a persons individual setup.
IMO, lower poundage setups shouldn't be shooting mechanical heads. Again, IMO, higher poundage setups with heavier arrows, you can take your pic of BH type.
ELKMAN and others here have the proof that mech heads kill elk just as dead as fixed heads do. I've shot fixed blades for the last 9 years, however you won't be hearing any hate from me to those that shoot mechs.
Debate free......... Rrrrrrrriiiiiiiggggghhhhhht. As said in my best Dr. Evil impersonation.
Well.... it does influence a decision what head to use, or makes it much easier anyway..... when/if they sponsor you to use it.... heheheheheh.....
Tiger woods in his prime could beat the field using a croquet mallet and an old boot..... pretty sure Jordan would have jumped just as high wearing many other shoes than Nike....
I agree TD. Look at both ELKMAN and Ermine. They shot huge bulls and weren't wearing Sitka!
Sitka is almost as "over rated" as it is "over priced". The ability to get close, and shot selection/execution is what kills Bulls...
Only thing I'll add is that in the fixed category I'm not as big of a fan of Zwickeys. I've shot them out of my compound and found that the tip curls quite easily. Those were Zwickey Eskimos. I bought them for my longbow, and then decided to shoot them out of my compound. One thing, they are deadly quiet in flight though - having no vents. VPA also makes non-vented heads. I mean by the time they curl the damage is most likely done, but it's always nice to see a head come home in the same shape it left plus blood.
I've got a dosimeter at work thanks to Workplace safety and health, and would actually be interesting to maybe test the noise difference between arrow setups... sorry don't want to derail this thread.
I screwed three 150 grain Magnus Stinger 4 blades onto my 340 spine Hunter XTs yesterday and shot them and they grouped amazing! Would be an excellent elk choice I'm sure.
I shot Rage for about 5 years... When all went well they were AWESOME, HUGE HOLES! I had a bad hit with one two years ago, (I grazed a VERY SMALL twig) and spined a small buck at 20 yards STOPPED THE RAGE DEAD IN IT'S TRACKS:( Yes it dropped the buck. but the rage only went in about 3/4 of an inch...
I shot a big buck at 35 yards about 7 years ago using a slick Trick... Low Light, I shot threw some leaves on a tree... Blew right through the front shoulder and into the opposite shoulder about 1.5 inches (Both shoulders broken) he went 7 yards and died. (I Know Deer vs. Elk, point is Elk are WAY bigger... The Rage was destroyed. The Slick Trick had two bent blades.
I shoot heavy 29" arrows, 500+ Grains @ 67 lbs about 270 FPS... LOTS of KE. After seeing how poorly the Rage did, I don't think I will ever use a mechanical again, but I don't care if others do... I just want to inflict the absolute most damage I can. Hit Hard, Kill Fast! This year I will be shooting the Magnus Buzzcut 4- blade. We'll see how it does.
Practice Hard, Hunt Hard and Shoot Straight:)
ELKMAN and Justin,
You have both killed some VERY NICE Elk! Congratulations!
I believe this is post 330.
OOOPS 230 :( I'm at work. LOL
Anyone use 4 blade SteelForce?
Had to add a couple more broad heads to bring the number up.
And also a knife to butcher with. I can't honestly say I've used these points, but I have used the knife to butcher part of an elk. It worked extremely well. There is a serration on the blade and it cut smoothly and easily.
