Contributors to this thread:
Okay with Colorado just closing the draw I went on to see when we'd be finding out if we drew or not. The DOW website lists June 1 as the expected posting date. I can understand years ago when things were done more manually that it would take some time to sort things out and do a draw, but with computers today I just don't understand why it takes 6 weeks or longer to get results. Any ideas? It'd sure be nice to be able to find out sooner than that!!
Probably so they can move all of that money into interest bearing accounts and turn a profit on refunded money for a couple months. I really have no idea but could be part of it.
That's a good question. I know Colorado likes to hold out on my refund much longer than any other state. They sure don't have a problem charging the card immediately, though!
Not sure why but you'll be able to check the back door about a month before actual results show. I'm sure there'll be a thread atop the forums when this happens
PTaft hit on the nose. Think about the 100's of millions they're bringing in application fees. You can make a lot of interest in a very short time that goes to further the quality of hunting in Colorado. Another factor is that Colorado is still taking mailed in applications and they need to process those, process change requests, and they probably even still have some work to do with "The Draw" Program in terms of setting up new quotas, etc. Think of the database structure that a hunting draw would require.
As a non-resident, I must send in a paper application for certain species in Colorado. My postmark must be by the deadline. There are valid applications that have not arrived at F&G, as a result. Those have to be scanned or hand-keyed into the application draw system prior to the draw taking place. Would you wait a week from now to run the actual drawing process? What if my application is mailed from remote Wyoming where there is not daily mail-service? Wait two weeks? Three? I think that is part of the delay.
Part of the delay is governmental entities are rarely rewarded for becoming more efficient but are often punished if fail to adhere to the letter of the law. The letter of the law in this case is an application is valid if has a postmark within the application period.
Actually there is absolutely no truth at all to the idea that they make money off holding the application refunds. Sorry but there is no place in he world where you can invest money for only a couple months and expect any sort of real return. It just does not happen. If it can happen then Rich people would never have to work because they could just go deposit money for a few weeks, pull it out, re-deposit etc.
What really happens is the state take in the application, but unlike other states they do not draw for anything until they have set tag limits for all units. They set tag numbers for all units and then have to have final approval by the game commission. Before they set the final tag limits they have to take a relatively accurate winter survivial tally as well. The actual populations surveys are be conducted right now and the final word on mortality etc. Will not be out for another month. Once they have a set amount of mortality and herd data they then set the tag limits. Once tag limits are set they can then commence with the draw.
Quit your whining.
I applied for AK moose last December and got notification mid February.
And it cost me $85 non-refundable NR hunting license fee, plus $5 for each unit I applied for.
Colorado is currently holding close to $2,500 for my two applications (sheep and deer). I don't expect to see that deer (point only) refund for a few months, but the sheep refunds (majority of that $$$) tend to turn around within weeks.
To be clear, I hope and pray Colorado keeps that sheep tag money!
What coelker said, inventory of animals going on now, then set numbers and draw.
Where do they get this "high rate of interest"? Didn't realize there was any interest rates out there to be had?
It doesn't have to be a high rate to turn millions of dollars into profits via interest.
In NM I'm pretty sure it is all electronic so theoretically they could turn results in a week, but no one loves your money more that the gov't.
By state law they aren't allowed to make interest on the money. If you don't like it nobody is forcing you to do it. I don't even know if they set all the tag numbers yet. And some people still send in paper apps.
If anybody who knows where I can buy a 6-week CD, let me know!
CDPW loses more money on merchant fees to accept our credit cards than they could ever make in interest, even if it was legal for them to try.
cnelk - I didn't mean to come across as whining, just trying to understand the situation a little better. It didn't really occur to me that they'd be doing herd surveys still, but now that it was pointed out to me it makes a lot of sense. Learn something new everyday, if you want to!
Turkey season opens here Monday so hopefully that will help ease the tension until draw results start showing up. haha...
If I am not mistaken there is a statute that states the state cannot make any money off interest gained by holding application dollars.
I realize I may get blasted by this next statement, but, I believe we should remove that statue. Based on 1M and 3M LIBOR rates CPW could earn close to $500K a year to fund public access, youth hunting, etc. I ran the numbers from last year's draws. The state hold approximately $97.5mil for 2mo. Eventhough LIBOR rates are less that 0.05% that interest could be used to help close some of the current financial gap.
I do agree that the draw should not be that complicated and should not take the time that it does, but there is Government urgency for you...
"...I doubt the CDW Big Game Draw personnel are BlackBelts in Six Sigma."
That was funny.
coelker had the answer. Final license numbers are not set until the May Commission meeting, then they run the draw after that.
Personally, I would prefer the DOW make a few bucks in interest if they hold our money for two months, it could be more money to go to habitat, access, etc. No reason to ever keep money in an account that gains zero interest. I've heard they don't make interest though.
Maybe the question should be, "why do they have the application period closed so soon if the draw isn't to be held for another month or so?"
May Commission? Don't the results come out in april?
California has their results out for 4 species posted 2 weeks after the close of the application period. If CA can do it in 2 weeks, these states can do this quicker than 2 months.
It's called "Computer Automation." Computers have made these sorts of things much easier.
CO isn't even the prime example. There are states that take longer.
Utah takes 10 weeks. Nevada takes 7. AZ takes 9 weeks for TWO SPECIES.
They can do these draws faster. Pat hit the nail on the head. It's called "government agency not holding anyone's hand to the fire." If these were private companies doing this, they wouldn't get away with taking 2 months to process applications and perform a draw. Hell, some of these states don't even process their own money and/or do their own draws! Some states pay a private company to do that for them!
If they all only took 2-4 weeks to do these draws, it would help the applicants out tremendously as we'd have more time to plan/book and we'd not be blindly applying for 30 different tags at the same time hoping that we get not too many and not too few tags.
I haven't been real active on the site so far this year, but the black belts in six sigma comment is hilarious and the best thing I've read since TBM disappeared.
Also I agree with the notion that if they are going to hold our money for a period of time then every opportunity for wildlife access or game management improvements should be pursued. I'd even be okay with them holding my money 12 months and pulled all of the interest off of it if it meant better hunting opportunities in the future for me or other outdoorsmen.
There's sheep, goat, moose, deer, antelope, bear, etc. thousands of applications to sort thru both paper and electronic!
What do you expect?
If they don't use it for some purpose then why do they take the money for the full license cost in the first place when you are buying points only? Why not look at Wyoming's system for a way better example. You only pay if you want a license. You get your point and a refund if you don't draw, OR, just buy the point later in the year when they give us 4 months to do it. Click, done.
The long delay doesn't make sense to me either...but I only have a Six Sigma green belt.
I imagine if they didn't require people to pay in full.. The would not receive money for the tag when someone drew a tag.
Colorado has no problem getting money for there tags.
If you apply for a license that's one thing. I'm talking about when you apply for points only. They know for sure you aren't drawing a tag because you didn't even apply for one. So why take the money when they know 100% for sure they will be sending it back. They just need a point only system like Wyo.
Ermine,
Utah, Arizona, Nevada, Kentucky, California, Alaska, Montana (Sheep, moose, goat, bison), Maine, and many other states with expensive tags do not require tag fees up front. If it was really that tough to get tag fees after the draw, then why would so many states not require the tag fees till after?
I'll tell you what it is: Every state had their system set up decades ago and they just haven't changed.
There's advantages for the states to require tag prices up front and advantages for them to get the money after the draw.
The advantage to doing it before the draw is they don't have to worry about charging people. The advantage to getting payment after is they don't have to send out a ton of refunds and get accused of hoarding money.
They're government agencies and they're just stuck in an old paradigm. Government agencies don't change if they don't have to. The details of these draws are not as important to the agency or any individual at the agency as they are to us.
We sit and wring our hands about these things, but government bureaucracies are inherently impersonal, inefficient, and uncaring.
Not sure why it would come out later this year than previous years. I think we got the results last year around May 20th. You would think they would have gotten the process down to a science by now.
Destroyer350 - I believe all of us who are anxious to check the backdoor are the reason why they show later dates on there now. If I recall correctly, the DPW was getting bogged down with phone calls from people asking about results, along with people checking the backdoor and then calling to confirm what unit they got.
I think it's just pushing people off so we don't bombard them with inquiries. Last year they also started shutting down the preference points page until the draw was completed for each species, and it was confirmed there were no errors.
I heard they had some issues running up to the draw so I bet it'll be Friday before they actually post results online.
Did anyone notice on page 1 of the Regs - bottom lower left - that the CPW will be migrating to a new purchasing and licensing application system within the next year?
That was just a guess. I have no clue.. Take it easy killifornia guys!
