Boots are your number one, two and three concern....
Have fun and enjoy your hunt!
Mark
I got some kuiu alpine pants this year w/ the knee pads, really looking forward to not getting as beat up when I hit the ground. They also feel more pliable compared to my first lites which are full of patches. Man those things got shredded up namely the crotch! So unimpressed w/ those pants at their price point.
Where are you hunting? That can make a pretty big difference. Though one year it frosted on me in early sept in NM, I was in my hammock.
My wife wants to go along on my moose hunt this year so I had to purchase rain gear for her along with knee high rubber boots, socks, gloves and hat. The rest she will have to wear some of my extras. I have seen so many guides wear levis and just about everything that wasn't camo.
That with a good set of rain gear will get you through September in the mountains.
c3's Link
Seriously though, I've picked up a bunch of stuff there in the mountain mimicry pattern for pretty amazing deals over the last 4 or 5 years.
The latest is a company called www.sylogear.com They make some pretty amazing stuff that comes up super cheap on camofire on a regular basis.
Their light weight rain gear is a particularly good deal for quality stuff relative to sitka or kuiu stuff.
In any case camofire is good place to keep an eye on if you a cheapskate with a fine wine taste like me.
Cheers, Pete
Mix of KUIU, Sitka, firstlite
Success in Bowhunting really isn’t a fashion contest nor does it make one bit of a difference what you wear.
As a Bowhunter, I find these kinds of threads embarrassing.
Clothing is just gear, some is better than others. If its not your thing, fine, but why bash or make fun of a guy that wants top of the line clothing?
Other than that, it is just cost and comfort. I don't believe the elk/deer pay much attention to whether you are wearing camo or not.
Some things really do make a difference, like optics, your bow, arrows and more particularly your level of commitment to the hunt.
But you're right; I shouldn't hurt the feelings of those who spend more time and enjoy considering what they wear versus preparing for the hunt physically and mentally. I shouldn’t allow my frustration with such issues to get in the way. Rather than try to help these folks out with suggestions on what to focus on, I should simply stay quiet. I probably have way less to offer in the way of Bowhunting advise that may potentially contribute others future success than someone more focused on the latest clothing trends.
Apology to you and others.
Bob
Bob, I'll gladly take any advice you want to give, hell I'll even trade you a pair of Kuiu pants, only worn once! Ha!
I'm a cheap old fart and recently sprang for some KUIU stuff. Great gear but I do chuckle at myself when I pass a mirror or truck window and I look like a greenhorn from one of the catalogs... it's a new day, I guess. :)
Last day of my hunt a guy (NR) stopped me to ask questions about his hunt starting the next day. Full camo, cowboy hat, clean shaven, and smelled like he spilled the aftershave in his lap. I couldn't get far enough away from him, talk about opening the sinuses.
If you've never worn high end gear you'll never know what you're missing, walmart cotton vs kuiu synthetics and first lite wool... night and day. Sure you can kill an elk w/ a 45lb bear whitetail and aluminum arrows, but I bet you shoot carbon arrows out of a slightly newer more "fashionable" bow. dang yuppies
Clothing has become gear, plain and simple. Not everyone is into it. Is it the most important part of a hunt? Of course not... But it is gear none the less.
I totally agree that there are much more important area's of concern, but not quite apples to apples in my opinion which means nuts ;)
If I could offer some honest advice, and you all can either heed it, or deposit it in the same receptacle most advice should be placed in from guys like me.
There is no need to spend big dollars on expensive clothing. Save those dollars.
You need two things regarding clothing to hunt in a harsh environment, and I probably hunt in a way harsher environment than most guys. You need a waterproof and windproof shell (Helly Hansen or Cabela's XPG raingear for me) and you need several layers of fleece or similar fabric that doesn’t absorb water. Personally, I buy my layers of fleece at either Wal-Mart or, when I'm in Arizona, Dollar General.
Regarding sitO's question about hunting places other than AK, I have been somewhat successful hunting Coues Deer in AZ over the past few years. I've killed B&C bucks in two of the last four years. The other years my bucks have just been P&Y. I wear non-Camo fleece I purchased at Dollar General. Doesn’t seem as though even those crafty desert ghosts mind if I don’t wear Camo high dollar gear.
What they do care about is movement. They see me move and I can forget about getting a shot.
Reflex, it isn't rocket science. I like to have good quality base layers that wick moisture away. After that get some decent camo jackets and pants. You can buy great fleece camo from several of the major sporting goods stores. The stuff I've bought on sale at Cabelas or Gander Mtn has lasted for many years. I personally like a fleece vest under a jacket in the morning, then the vest is perfect when things warm up during the day. Then make sure you have some good quality rain wear that is packable and will fit over your camo. There are lots of good camo options from cheap to Sitka expensive. Most of it will work just fine. You can literally spend as little or as much as you want.
I hunt in very cold weather in treestands in MN and I don't die from cold. This coming from a guy that gets major gut cramps if the piece of camo I buy is over $100. LOL. Good luck
Nothing replaces hunting skill, ability to read maps, find game and the ability to get an animal on the ground but IMHO doing things that you think may help you never hurts.
Likewise, she buys her street clothes at Nordstrom. I buy my Wrangler jeans and cotton tee-shirts from Wal-Mart or more recently off of Amazon. She's a retired public employee living off the State of Alaska public retirement system, so she can afford the high dollar nonsense. I'm a self employed, still working at 60 libertarian, who always pays his own way. As a result, I pay attention to each dollar I spend and the value I receive for it. You get the difference don’t you?
>>>>-------->
I've also been saved by my 3d jacket more than once. I've had deer stare me down then carry on esp when I have to hang lower in a tree than ideal. Id say with good camo you can get away with small movement depending on the situation but I can't imagine getting away with anything wearing a solid that boast a heavy contrast. Of course I'm suggesting an extreme but on the same token some camos can reduce getting skylined to the point of spooking game.
The clothing itself however, not camo patterns but material and design.... I think much of the technical gear has many advantages, covers a wider range of conditions, less weight, bulk, more durable, athletic, comfortable, etc. Same as higher end camping gear can save weight and bulk, function. We have to fly everywhere with camp and gear. It all has to fit in two pieces of luggage (one of which is your bow case) and a carry on (usually my pack) The higher tech gear has made a big difference over the years for us.
I like fleece, have several pieces of it, layers great, dries fast, pretty versatile stuff. What pants are those Bob? Look synthetic? I know a good bit of the outdoor non-camo stuff in similar material is a bargain compared to after they paint camo on it...
I tend to wear synthetic for everything. I think those pants are from a company in Oregon that I don't recall the name of. I call then Mountain Pants, and that might even be correct, but I'm not sure. I do recall they are about 90% polypropylene and the rest spandex.
Everybody makes different choices in where their money goes. So I don't buy coffees, do work myself, make my food from scratch and spend $100 on a pair of pants. My buddy spends less on his pants, but buys a couple $2 coffees every single day. At the end of the year, I feel like I'm ahead, but to each their own. He works for his money, likes his coffee, good on him. I don't think there is a single guy on this site that believes technical clothing is a NEED for killing animals. It's purely about wants and enjoyment.
I never mentioned color, I did however mention 3d camo. Camo is not designed to hide your movements it is to break up our outline. Contrary to your belief I've gotten away with movement plenty of times w/ deer in the vicinity, like standing up.
One thing I've learned is not everyone hunts the same game, nor do they always hunt w/ the same methods, but don't fool yourself to think your methods will 100% translate to another quarry.
I think there's a lot of guys on this site that are just outstanding hunters. They could go out in a blaze orange onesy and kill animals!
My priorities are: Clean, If you reek your odds are compromised. Comfortable; If you itch and scratch or twitch and adjust you will be seen. Not blue or cotton. I believe that you are more visible to deer in blue jeans than blaze orange.
I like the break up patterns. I believe they make a person less visible at least to other humans.
In the old days I always wore wool. The red and black checkered was traditional in my neck of the woods. I do not like to wash my hunting clothes in detergent with brighteners. Soap is more to my liking. I have been entertained by the banter here but I wanted to give a serious reply.
I've seen pics of Bob with dead critters, a big smile and day glo blue raingear on. I know he gets it done pretty regular no matter what he wears. Some guys are pure predator.
Our animals are hunted every day of the week all year round. I do believe my camo helps me, to whatever degree in whatever limited circumstances. These things spot anything out of place pretty quick.
And even if it was only psychological with the animals... two weeks ago I had a hunter walk by me while kneeling on the ground at 6 feet and never saw me. The buck across the gulch that was getting up and ready to move OTOH, he slipped back into the panini cactus and never came back out..... %&#@*&%....
In that case find me when I'm buzzed... whooohooo
I bet you can build a mean ham sammich!
As far as camo clothing goes, I honestly buy whatever's cheap at Walmart on clearance. Realtree or Mossy Oak something or another. I like basic longjohns, and bring along various sweatshirts for extra layers. I don't worry much about rain gear, but probably should.
BTB, you shouldn't believe that he is only focused on clothing and not on physical or mental aspect of hunting. How do you know? And you are right, you probably should keep quiet, you offered nothing to this thread what so ever. He wasn't looking for bow hunting advice, which you offered none by the way, so no apology necessary. If you are offended by reading my post then stop, take a breath and remember, everything is not about you.
Many folks are less important than they think they are.
If you have the funds but just have a problem in general with those that like the available clothing suppliers or products then you simply have identity issues you are dealing with.
I will say this though, and I hope you don't take this the wrong way Bob, but you are the best-of-the-best if you didn't realize it. If not, you are right up there with them. I am not surprised at all that you can get it done without camo, and I applaud your respect for the money you earn. Some of us would prefer to have a little advantage with the use of camo though. If it does its job (breaking up your outline against your background) there are plenty of instances where I certainly feel like it has helped me beat the eyes of my quarry, while being stationary. Maybe it is cheating, but I promise I'm not too far ahead. ;^)
I guess you must have Sitka and Kuiu gear for Bowhunting success.
There are a couple things I must point out though.
First off, Luck doesn't exist. If you have excess money because you earn more money, you were blessed with the ability/opportunity to do it. You didn't luck into it. Hard work doesn't produce luck. Hard work is the result of being blessed.
Secondly, one thing is common whether it is coolers, clothes, packs, etc..., is the some of the guys that choose to buy the top end "gear" seem to be interested in convincing you that it is needed. No one is jealous of you for owning it. Only some people see no need in it. If you have the right to comment about how great it is, how much difference it makes, how it is worth every penny, someone who doesn't agree has that right too. Without you getting your $20 underwear in a wad. Right? Right.
Like or love it, one thing is for certain. There are numerous threads about this "gear" every week.
God Bless men
I'm not trying to argue with anyone. I really respect Blacktail Bob and would have to agree that camo isn't going to define whether or not your are successful at harvesting an animal. I do, however, feel that lightweight, water resistant, or form-fitting materials can have a significant advantage when hunting in the mountains. Whether those clothes are camo or not, I think most people would agree with this. Is it necessary, of course not, but it's hard to argue that those clothing articles aren't better than cotton, etc. I also have no problem with someone who doesn't want to spend the money on better garments and hunts in something they find at Walmart.
For what its worth, I currently have Icebreaker merino wool base layers (bottom and top), smartwool socks, Mountain Hardwear rain gear and backpack, a couple of sitka garments, rivers west vest, and a variety of other stuff that I have mostly retired. I don't care about a particular brand and I am always mis-matched on different patterns or brands (sometimes not even hunting in camo).
Hopefully this clears some things up.
Like you I have a lot of mis-matched this and that that I have bought when it is on sale. That said, when I have 2 pairs of clothes for 2+ weeks on a remote hunt I want it to be damn good stuff that won't fail me. Does it make me a better hunter? Not unless it gets me out of the tent on a rainy, cold and windy day that I otherwise wouldn't have gone out in.
Like you and others, I very much respect Bob, but he was way off base on this one and missed the point. No one doubts the fact that you don't NEED camo or certain other things to be a successful hunter, but there are a lot of things in life we don't NEED but we get them anyway.
Everyone's wants are different . There's absolutely zero excuse for pissin' on someone else's parade because of those differences.
A person wanting to get to a destination will do it with or without A/C, but once you've had it, you never go back!
And there's always gonna be people rolling their windows down telling you you don't need it!
I guess it makes sense that no client could be committed, competent, capable, prepared, and have a certain preference in his clothing options as well.
For those that wear a Kuiu, recommend Chinook or Teton for early - mid season elk.
I use Camo, but to say that one pattern is better than another is like saying one antiperspirant is better than the others: mostly marketing!
IMO, the best Camo pattern is the one "on sale". Break up your outline and you are good to go.
Of course if you REALLY want to find out what I am wearing, you have to pay me $2.99/min.....
To the OP. . . I really like my Sitka 90% and Ascent pants. I wear them a LOT. They have stood up well, are comfortable, dry quickly, etc. etc. Worth every penny as far as I'm concerned (and I've tried to get the Ascent pants in solid color recently, but they're out of stock)
I also really like my Sitka Kelvin Jacket. I've just had it about a year and a half, but it was definitely the missing ingredient on prior elk hunts. I loved in last year in WY. Warm, blocked wind relatively well, EXTREMELY packable and light weight, easy on/off, etc. I've considered buying one in solid for every day wear, but I live in the sticks, so I just wear the camo version everywhere
Just a couple things I like
I've moved on from Sitka mostly and now generally go with KUIU stuff. I wear it hard and it comes out looking good. I spend no time wondering what anyone thinks, mainly because I'm not choosing clothing to satisfy anyone but me. Incidentally I fall into the camp of those who believe camo isn't a necessity for bowhunting but my experience has been that it's a big benefit in many close-range encounters. You can even kill big game while wearing the latest fashion camo:
Nope. I don't think so. You're a killer. You've proven it time and again. You can kill in tuxedo, I'm sure
I think the more important questions are. . . Would you be more comfortable? More warm? Less sweaty/clammy/cold? etc.
Does that matter to you?
It matters to me. I'm not that tough. I hunt because I enjoy it, not because I want to test how well I can shiver for 4 hours.
In highschool and college I didn't have any tech clothing. Wore a LOT of cotton clothes. I'd wear 4 or 5 cotton sweatshirts to deer hunt in cold weather. Wear a bunch of socks, etc. I froze a lot. And I wasn't as effective because of it.
So now I spend more money, sure, but I'm more comfortable, way less cold, and that means I hunt better, and I ENJOY my hunt more.
I don't get to hunt as much as I'd like, so it's important to me that I enjoy the time afield that I get.
I'm willing to pay for that too. . .
Bake
The last couple of years have seen a real shift in my thinking. Sometimes life does that to you. . .
I frankly don't care what people wear while hunting, what weapon they hunt with, whether it's DIY or guided or whatever, or baited, or with dogs, mechanical or fixed, on a food plot with a crossbow and Rage, or any of the other bullcrap we all bicker about on here all the time.
If you're enjoying your hunt, then I'm happy for you.
There was nothing about the OP that indicated he was an incompetent newbie. Even if he is/was, your dismissiveness was unnecessary.
Clothing is gear. Some of us have fun buying/trying out different types of gear on our hunts. It's all part of the fun and anticipation for many. Some like camo, some don't. Some of us realize we don't have to spend the money we do on our clothing and other gear - but we do it anyway. Why? Because we want to. And we can.
I have probably spent 20K in various items of clothing and packs over the past 15 years. Most on sale, but some at retail. Some camo, some not. My reasons for doing so are my own - someone else's thoughts about what I do are neither called for, necessary, or relevant.
At 52, I have pretty much settled in on what works for me, but my eyes are always open to trying new things. IMO the adoption of mountaineering type clothing to hunting has been a wonderful boon to hunters.
Will good clothing adapted to conditions make one a more skilled hunter? No. Can it make one a better hunter? Yes, because overall comfort allows one to concentrate on/use their skills to their greatest effect.
Last night Lisa and I were watching an outdoor program about moose hunting. A moose wasn’t killed over several trips, but the guy had really nice, I’m sure sponsor provided, gear on. He kept talking about how noisy conditions were when he stalked. The video showed him trying to sneak in on a nice bull when they were calling.
I kept asking Lisa, why in the world is he trying to sneak in if its so nosey, why doesn’t he just let the bull come to him? That’s always what I’ve done, but I’ve only killed a dozen or so calling them in and called in maybe a dozen or so more for other guys.
Duh, and maybe something other than those little deer.
I always have a fleece top on my hunts. But I don't always have it in my pack (it's also relatively heavy and bulky) - just depends on the weather, how far away I may be from camp, etc.
Many days I just have a lightweight puffy with me and stalk in my merino wool base layer. I realize it can be a slight risk not to have it, but it's a risk I sometimes take.
My clothing for backpack hunts has been whittled to:
Good boots/footpads Smartwool or Thorlo socks Merino wool base layer (I like Firstlite) Mountain pants (I like Kuiu Attack or KOM Bunlight wool) Fleece top (any will work fine) Puffy jacket (I like the new Kuiu water-resistant down) Packable rain gear matching expected conditions (HH/Arcteryx Beta for Alaska/Yukon hunts or Cabela's spacerain for Sept elk hunts) Lightweight gloves and beanie
That's about it in a nutshell for me.
I'll have to expand to different critters. How many different critters would it take to become relevant?
I've always thought fleece was the lightest thing to wear. That’s why I favor it over wool.
I was wonderin, since you don't like the fancy clothes why do you shoot a fancy bow with training wheels? If KISS is the policy why not apply it to all?
Fleece + burrs = pure hell.
Honestly bob, I don't care what you wear nor anyone else for that matter. Boxers or briefs? Not by balls not my concern.
Thats been my attitude. It does drive me crazy to see all the whoop la about this that and the other new garment and new Camo pattern. Like a bunch of women at Nordstrom
By the way, of the 120 or so record book animals, of over 20 different North American species I've taken, many have been with a recurve.
Maybe we should all pitch in a couple bucks and buy Bob some Kuiu attack pants and let him wear them and see what he thinks ;)
Bob, you look like about a 32" or 34" waist?
1) I can afford to buy my own gear, but thanks for the kind wishes.
2) I've tried non-Camo Kuiu. Its good enough gear alright, better than I thought it would be. I don’t think its any better than the XPG rain gear I can get from Cabela's for half the price.
3) A compound bow is way more effective than a recurve or long bow. It is way more of a challenge to kill game with traditional gear relative to a using a compound bow
4) Wearing Camo makes absolutely no difference in a Bowhunter’s effectiveness or ability to kill game. In fact, if anything, if the individual really does believe Camo works and they try to get away with movement or stalking when they should sit still, Camo reduces the effectiveness of that particular bow hunter.
WHOA, hold on there bob. This is bowsite, not playgirl. At least wear socks too!
Also happy to hear you say that traditional gear is tougher, as I have used both, and agree wholeheartedly. Sometimes I hear some trad guys say they think it has the overall advantage. I agree it has a (few) advantages but is overall more challenging. Your bowhunting resume is very impressive. Thank you for continually sharing your experiences with the rest of us.
When will big game seasons get rolling, or at least fishing season so I'm not spending time on a thread about clothes...
I love my Sitka and am still a huge fan of wool when the going gets tough.
If you want a really nice functional mid weight coat with vents and pit zips look at the Jetstream. Lots of fans of that piece of clothing including me. Probably my favorite.
my best, Paul
