Long burning wood stove
Elk
I have an 8 man Kifaru tipi and a kifaru wood stove. It is a great combination. It is so nice to have a warm dry place to come back to at night.
But I only really use it next to my truck.
The wood stove is nice and puts out a lot of heat. But it doesn't really last very long.
First, is there a way to modify the door to limit the air intake and make the first burn slower and longer?
Second, is there another stove that burns a lot longer? As I mentioned, size or weight is not really an issue since I just use it at my truck.
Look at either Cylinder Stoves or 3 Dog Stove.Bigger heavier but I can get a good 8 hours out of Hunter Cylinder Stove.
2nd the 3 Dog, heavy but burns really nice!
Get a liner. It works wonders, and will eliminate condensation is wetter climes
It doesn't depend neatly as much on the stove Draft as it does on the pipe damper. If you want to triple burn time and quadruple heat out put, use a pipe damper. End of story.
Fwiw, I use to own a 4 dog stove. A 4 hour burn was something special. In these type stoves, with a small firebox, that's normal. God Bless
Cylinder stove. Stoke it before bed and will last all night. Pipe damper is the ticket.
An 8 man tipi is not very big, you probably notice that your present stove does a very nice job at keeping it warm. If you put in a larger stove that holds more wood for a longer burn you will either cook yourselves out of there or need the door open for excess heat to escape. Unless you start hunting times where its 20 deg or colder your present stove will do just fine, I believe you will have to live with the way it is as those thin walled stoves are not designed for 8 hour burns.
A damper in the pipe will help a little but not enough to trouble ones self with. That stove is not designed to be air tight. If a damper is added you will only be able to partially close it or else you will have smoke coming out your door.
ElkNut1
As elknut points out, the little kifaru stove does a great job keeping the tipi warm... but that is only while the stove is burning.
The problem is that the stove consumes all the wood and goes out after about 30-60 minutes.
I agree that a liner is good idea and a cool thing. But i don't see how that will help. My stove will still be out after a hour. The liner may keep a bit warmer for a bit longer but won't really solve my problem.
The wilderness stove from Wall Tent Outfitters seems similar to the 3Dog stove.
But like Elknut pointed out, do you think I can get the wilderness stove to burn slow enough to keep me from overheating?
Now, I'm interested. I think I will buy some wood stove gasketing material and see if I can seal up my Kifaru stove. It I can get to burn for 2-4 hours instead of 30-60 minutes, that will be a great improvement.
I'll keep you posted...
Tim
Had the same problem Tim except I was using sticks I could just break like Aron recommends and it didn't even go 30 minutes before it burned out, I finally quit bothering with it. I posted on rokslide how to extend burn and best advice I got was to use as big as possible diameter wood I could fit in the door and a couple of guys recommended charcoal briquets or small chunks of coal. Since your truck camping, the latter wouldn't pose a pack weight problem. They are advertised to burn ANY organic material so it should work.
I don't think it will work? Those stoves do not have the needed recessed groove needed to contain a gasket material. Plus if you try to seal up a stove not designed to do so & throttle it down for a slower burn you will find that every nook & cranny where everything isn't sealed 100% you will have smoke trying to exit from it including where stove pipe meets top of stove!
Not trying to be a downer but I was a Masonry Contractor for 35 years & have dealt with a lot of things where fire is used. Good luck!
ElkNut1
EK1 if you just seal up the fire box and not the pipe with a damper, it should still draw good, might whistle though.
I think kifaru is way ahead of you knowing you only need the stove for short bursts...
...as you should be out hunting! grin
I have the cylinder stove i use in a wall tent....it will hold coals 1/2 the night
If the stove is one of those thin walled titanium stoves there's no room for a gasket. A wood stove door has to be built to accept a gasket, he will see what I mean when he installs one & tries to close the door. Plus those stoves fold up in a hinge system, smoke will try to bleed through those type of spots when the box is shut down starving it for oxygen in an effort to get the longer burn!
As you mention larger logs will have the fire last longer. In addition to that he will need to build up a couple inches worth of ashes so it can hold a bed of coals as he continues to have a fire for a full day without letting it go out. Once fire is out because no one is there to fuel it he will start from scratch once again!
ElkNut1
EK1 on the box stove if you riveted some ribs in to hold the gasket, I think it would work to an extent, if nothing else it would hold the mating edges of the stainless steel together better, they warp when heated and you can see gaps everywhere and it draws air from every direction, I put quite a bit of thought into it last year, ended up buying a cylinder stove to replace it to cut weight, bulk, and get a better burn time. For what he's doing though, camping at the truck, I'd just go buy some lump coal or lump charcoal and try that first!!
The way a stove gasket works is it has to be smashed. A 1/2 gasket is going to be pressed to smash that small. I don't know that they make a smaller one. Plus, without the groove to hold the gasket, it is going to fall off. In order to seal the gasket to the stove, the door must be shut while drying. Good luck getting it back open without tearing the gasket if there is no channel to seat the gasket. Because you will definitely smash the stove sealer onto the door through the gasket, if you were to ever get it closed.
This is where I disagree with elknut. A damper will dramatically increase burn times. Even not being able to shut it all the way off. If you are getting an hour without one, you'll get double that with one. Plus more radiant heat instead of it going out the pipe. I too have built more than my fair share of flu's. Anyone burning a stove for heat without a pipe damper, is seriously increasing firewood chores and fire tending time.
If the stove isn't airtight, simply don't damper it all the way off. But, installing a damper isn't going to revolutionize that stove either. God Bless men
To add to what WV M said, I know of some guys that doubled the spark arrestors from the two supplied and recommended as a minimum from Kifaru to four spark arrestors to aid in dampening the pipe.
Guys, feel free to try a variety of things. I'm sure many have in the past, you'll see those little stoves are designed to be burnt hot & quick, they are not all nighters! (grin)
WV, a damper will do little for an all night burn with that stove, you simply cannot get big enough logs & a nice volume of logs in such a small wood box. It can help but it's not a miracle worker. The only real solution as an all night wood burner is to get a stove that will hold more wood & the bed of coals is a must to achieve those longer burns. But!!! It will burn him out of that small tent space! (grin)
Since you're next to your rig camping get a MR Heater & put that in your tent to moderate heat & stay toasty. You can always fire the woodstove up when you want real radiant wood heat & to dry clothes or shoes out!
ElkNut1
Look at this picture from their website. There are very large gaps in the door.
I bet some wood stove gasket material could fill those cracks. It might not make it an all nighter but it should help.
This is from Ace. It is a 5/8 inch flat gasket. It fills the big crack very nicely.
I'm running an experiment in the backyard. I'll burn an identical group of wood with the gasket and without the gasket.
Here is the wood. 2 2x4s. A longer 2x4. And an old piece of dried cedar fencing.
Without the gasket, the wood lasted about 25 minutes.
Here is a shot with the gasket.
If it works, I'll use the enclosed glue to permanently attach it to the stove.
I still have big cracks along the bottom of the stove. I'll have to seal those too. ..
pellet stove with auto feeder... plenty of heat... fill the hopper it runs all day... bags of pellets are easier and less space then hauling in a bunch of firewood...
Conceptually, it looks like it will work. But i need to make a few more tweeks.
I know you're using the wood you have there for comparison but when in the woods you would want a harder wood such as oak, tamarack, red fir, etc. You will get a longer fire with the harder woods.
My hat's off to you for your perseverance but it will take a lot to make that unit air tight! (grin) Have fun!
ElkNut1
Since weight isn't a factor, why not just go with propane.
We use one that used to be in a small cabin.
Throttle it down just before going to bed - first one up crank it open and in 5 minutes it will be nice and toasty. It's vented so we don't worry QUITE as much about CO2.
100# cylinder for 11 days and only once have we ever ran out - that was because one of the guys that USED to go with us would lay in his under ware on top of his sleeping bag during the day when we were out hunting and have the heat cranked.
I use a Air Tight stove, lasts us 8 hours in a 10x20 outfitters tent but I do have a damper on it
The solution takes some effort. First you need a decent sleeping bag. Next, when packing up you accidentally-on-purpose make sure your buddy's bag doesn't make the trip. You save the day by having a spare bag along that he can use but its not nearly as warm as yours. Other than the noise of him getting up and stoking the fire 3 or 4 times a night, you will sleep great. :^)
I have used a four dog titanium stove in an 8 man tepee and it stayed Hot all night (10 plus hours). Great stove but expensive.
I have also used a four dog stove (three dog model) in a Cabelas Alaknak. It kept heat all night (8plus hours).
I have also had a cylinder stove used in a 12x14 canvas wall tent. It also held heat well.
Given all three I have used/owned...my next stove will be a four dog stove (three dog model) for a outfitter style tent. I need the 5 inch collar and feel the four dog stove was much better quality than the cylinder stove.
Good luck to you.
Your gonna need a bigger air tight stove to achieve what you want
Thanks for all the information. I do agree. I really need a new, bigger, airtight stove get it to really last 8-10 hours.
But...
My current stove lasts about 30 minutes and burns way too hot. If I can make some easy modifications so that it lasts twice as long, that will be worth it.
I do have a propane heater and I'm not opposed to using it. But... my little buddy heater vents the exhaust into the tent. That exhaust has a lot of water in it (the products of combustion are CO2 and water). With my single wall tipi and all that water, the insides will be very wet and my condensation problems will be a lot worse. I could buy a tipi liner that would solve some of the problem but it wont solve them all.
Lite outdoors makes a large dia cylinder stove with a damper. I have the smaller dia one and you can really regulate temp and burn time with it. They are not outrageously expensive. I would think you could load up with wood, close the dampers down and really get some decent burn time. I have never had to burn mine a long time yet, just cooking and taking the edge off in the morning so can't help other than that.
Plus you can pack it easily if you ever want to.
I put gaskets on the bottom
I also but a cable around the middle to keep the sides closed.
The best solution would be 2 more threaded rods like the legs.
I also but gasket around the door and added latches to get it to close tight.
I build stoves from old propane bottles. i can get about six hours of good heat from this one and will have colas after eight hours but that's damped down and flue damper choked.
I put in 3 small pieces of oak. After 90 minutes, it is still going pretty well.
After 2 1/2 hours, it is pretty much out. A few coals but that's it.
That is better than before but still not good enough.
It was probably the harder wood that attributed to your longer burn overall. Are you stuffing the woodbox as full as you can get it?
Other that that you will need a larger stove to accommodate more & larger chunks of wood but with that will come some real heat! (grin)
ElkNut1
No matter what you try, combustion will be primarily governed by air in (draft) and air out (flue dampener). The more precisely you can regulate both, the longer you can make any given load of fuel burn. However, a larger load of fuel will simply burn longer and that's pretty much that. One other factor is the stove's design and efficiency. Interior shape and airflow matters, as does unused internal space. Some stoves have low doors and small openings which make it hard to put in larger fuel loads, or load it closer to the top. Cylinder stoves circulate air better with smoother internal shape.
I'm in the camp which doesn't care about long extended burns. I don't consider most of these stoves safe enough to load heavily with fuel and then go to sleep. That's me and I don't expect anyone to agree...I just don't need the warmth enough to warrant the risk. I do want my stove to be controllable and burn without constant jacking around. That was my problem with my first Kifaru box stove. It simply leaked in too much air and went through fuel too quickly. If I loaded it heavily it tended to become a 500 degree glow-box and look like it might melt into a pile of plasma. I never had a problem, but I never found it to be a stove I could ignore longer than 20 minutes most of the time.
I put in 3 small pieces of oak. After 90 minutes, it is still going pretty well.
The seek outside titanium stove I am looking at is supposed to be air tight and burn well (their words). I have gotten good reviews from friends who have SO products, looking to put it in an 8 man tipi tent
You're camping next to the truck....why bother with the little wood stove? Use a little Buddy Heater. You may need to open up the ventilation to reduce the condensation.
I think anyone able to achieve 2-3 hours of constant controllable heat from one of the ultralight weight Ti stoves is pretty much getting all they can from it. I'm talking about one load of fuel. I know my thought is swayed by my own use which typically is in places devoid of seasoned hardwood. I'm usually burning dead pine or spruce...maybe some split birch...but not much of it is primo fuel.
Most of these stoves have draft intakes which aren't designed or intended to be completely closed down. Trying to turn them into tiny air-tight stoves might be worthwhile, but it isn't what most of them were designed for.
if I might add to the mix..... up in the high country there is never any firewood to be gathered but old soft woods such as aspen pine and fir. My experience with these woods is that you throttle down the air flow the fire will go out with unburned wood regardless of the amount of coals in the stove. so our motto is let it burn!
I use a Camp Chef Alpine in my wall tent. I installed a damper and can shut the stove down and get good heat for 4-5 hrs at a time. A bed of good coals and stuff it full then dampen it down. Get up once during the night to stoke it up and feed it. Coals for morning to make a good fir to make coffee with and have breakfast. I wouldn't use one of those old "sheep herder stoves" if you gave it to me. You can build your own out of an old small water heater that will be air tight and hold heat as well. Look up home made wood stove in Mother Earth News.
Ambush - what does that propane tank stove weigh? How do you load the bigger wood? Looks like it would be sturdy.
We have a different theory on overnights. We have a cylinder stove and good sleeping bags. It is a pain in the butt to have a lot of different temperatures during the night, so we stop stoking the stove after dinner and have it almost out by bedtime. Then we can sleep with a constant temperature (relatively) overnight.
Those 4dog stoves look pretty sweet. All of them. If truck camping the 3dog... if packing with horses, etc, the ti stove would be great. A little pricey, but great.
One of the neatest things about a wood stove in a tent.... you can dry gear out pretty quickly. Propane fueled stoves... not so much. I've seen where they actually make things wet. And they have a higher danger factor to them. i.e. go to sleep and never wake up....
Plus... you get to play with the fire.... =D
The wilderness stoves from the Wall tent shop are nice. We have the biggest version for our huge wall tent. I think that the smallest unit would be over kill for your tepee, but you can always make a smaller fire.
Another thought as an option. My wife got a room Dyson room heater for Xmas. It is electric and would require a generator, but I guarantee that thing would help keep the heat. We have used in a small cabin and it nearly cooked us out. We are planning to use 2 to heat our wall tent if we are hunting during burn restrictions. A small generator can also run lights etc.
I hate the idea of the buddy heaters or anything running propane. Too many people die from such deals. I would rather be could than run the risk.
Propane combustion produces H2O as a byproduct. You'll be warm and maybe even dry until the temp drops and condensation forms at twice the normal rate.
" what does that propane tank stove weigh? How do you load the bigger wood?"
Stove weighs less than thirty pounds. The whole front opens for loading and this one can take 20" wood. They can be made pretty much any length you want, with the 13" diameter being the constant. By having the flat "cooking" surface detached from the cylinder, you don't have the heat extremes. We have even cooked pizzas on it. A low, directed draft is important for a constant steady burn.
If weight is not an issue, another great airtight stove is kwikcamp. Will burn 10-12+ hours. High quality.
With extreme care charcoal. Use a CO detector.
FWIW, I use a 30 pound firebox Warm morning coal stove in my wall and alaknak tents. Coal is KING. It burns for 8 to 10 hours in that stove. Pounds the heat. Dries wet clothes quick. Keeps the tent dry too.
I'm not calling anyone a liar. But, I've burnt a lot of stoves with the best hardwood available. Those 3 and 4 dog stoves DO NOT hold fire for 8 hours. Not even close. To do so in any stove would require a good bed of coals, with enough firebox left to load 30 pounds of wood in. I burn wood and coal for heat in my home. For my whole life. I know better than to believe this as I have tried it with those stoves too. That's a fact you can take to the bank. Anybody that says different isn't telling you the number of times they stoked it during the night.
God Bless men
Anyone burn coal in a 4 dog stove?
I ran a four dog in a 12 x 20 Alaknak on a December hunting trip. Loaded it up with oak at bedtime, dampered it down, and had hot coals in the morning. This was 6-7 hours, which was good enough for me. You'll still have coals to catch a fire longer than that, easily eight hours. If you run it wide open, you'll need fuel every 3 hours or so. But it's way too hot to sleep like that anyway. I herby certify that I'm not lying.
don't you guys think the elevation you are camped at and the type of wood effects the stove performance? could be why there are different experiences stated.
No experience with coal but IIRC when researching the 4 Dog Stoves, they can burn coal.
I have run my 3 Dog for at least 4 hours without a reload, maybe closer to 5 hours of fire, ignitable coals for more like 6. This was with substantial sized pieces of split oak and the damper and vents shut down almost completely.
The two I had burning oak was good for 4 hours dampered down. I wasn't aware you could get a decent size piece of wood in ether of them. Sure couldn't mine.
God Bless men
Easeup, I think pine will put out half the heat, and have yet to find out how long it will last. I'm still learning to balance damper and air inlets trying to extend burn while minimizing creosote.
Maddog, those extra little wing nuts you used to keep the door closed will get hot as hades with a fire burning in there I bet!
