On your follow up bugle he responds back 30 seconds after your 2nd bugle, it's not the aggressive bugle you had hoped for. You now have an idea of his location. It's close to 10:30 a.m. & the wind is now coming up to you, perfect! You start your descent & after several hundred yards of brush & downfall things look different & you're not really sure where he is, you hope you are within a 150 yards or so. He has not bugled again but from past experience you feel the odds are good other elk are nearby since elk are herd animals. You're only interested in bulls so what method will you choose to up your odds a bull will show first? It appears there is no rutting action going on that day in this area.
A - You setup there & give a series of cow/calf talk for 2-3 minutes. You repeat this twice after a few minutes interval between sets.
B - You decide to give only bull sounds representing a new bull in the area. Your sounds are creative bugling, raking brush & a few moderate pants. You mix it up for however much time it takes to pull him your way! It could take 30 minutes!
C - You bugle with the same location bugle he answered at the top of the ridge. If no response after a couple of tries you head out in search of other elk.
We know there are a variety of methods to select from to try & pull elk your way but which of these gives you the best odds of pulling in a bull first & not unwanted cows or spikes? If cows or spikes show first they could detect your presence before the bull you were hoping for showed up. This chosen method has worked well for us over the years & it can work for you too!
ElkNut1
Me; I'm sneaking in, glassing every step if I have to to see every nook and cranny. With patience, i might get some herd sound to key in on.
Only one bugle from him didn't give me enough to go on regarding his mood...if he was hot/aggressive...he would be more vocal, IMO.
I say B
Due to the thermals and the other bull sounds like he is bedded You need a rukus to get his interest piqued. I would even give it an hour, and be ready from every direction. Sneaking is an option, but at this time of day. I have spooked 10x more elk than I saw first. They bed in a certain place for a good reason.
Could be a little 5x5 with a couple of cows and he isn't going to leave them for any reason, any type of close bugling and he is gone.
I would be quietly sneaking in as well or taking my chances with one or two soft cow calls and then go silent, no over calling. I don't really care if I move the whole herd towards me.
Beendare, I too would rather slip in silently as we did in Quiz 1 but that bull was vocal & gave a direction. This bull has not made another peep so for us to continue to slip in on the steep downward slope in thick timber with less than quiet conditions & not knowing if he's to our left, right or below & not sure how far I've experienced the same thing as Norseman, you will alert & push way more elk than you will slip in on & arrow. Not saying you shouldn't try it but generally those are low odds & if you run him or other elk out of there they are gone for good!
Bob, were at least one of the 4 bulls you slipped on being vocal so it gave you a direction? If not how did you locate them? Thanks!
Answer to come & why! Thanks for the comments!
ElkNut1
If you sneak in on him, you maintain the wind advantage (although, at this time of Day, I've had the wind completely switch direction on me).
Just a thought.
Best of Luck, Jeff
I've talked to a bunch of guys on this site that I know are very good elk hunters. The one thing we agree on is that even when you think you know the situation, it can turn on you.
So in your example, you think you know what the herd bull is saying/doing...but what about everything else? How many satellites are circling around- we don't know. Those satellites are 5x more likely to come to any calling before the herd bull, IME.
I've had nosy cows walk over in that stiff stance that alerts the whole herd she thinks something is up. Plus anytime you call, the herd is keeping a watchful eye in your direction keying in on any noise you make, so now when you break a stick- its a big deal. We don't know the herd agenda at that moment either...and lots of times they have one.
I'm not trying to screw up your quiz- I enjoy them. But anyone with elk experience knows there is no one perfect answer in these situations. I like a lot of your interpretations...I think there is value...IMHO, it doesn't always pan out that way.
It's common for hunters to feel if they bugle they will run elk off, they generally feel this way because they've had limited success in calling elk their way, that's understandable but that feeling can be overcome once ones realize when to call & when not to call. All situations do not require calling no more than all situations require sneaking in with no calling.
In this case the bull only bugled twice & not once on his own, he did not respond to any additional bugling after that, very common occurrence with no cows in estrus or nearing estrus no matter the Sept date. It doesn't matter if this bull was a herd bull or satellite in this situation, point was he was not in an aggressive mood. Now you must play on his curiosity if you are to have an opportunity to bring him your way! When given the choice I like the elk coming to me. This was not a stalking situation for me because he wasn't vocal & I didn't know where he was.
Here's where the answer comes in! (grin) You want a bull & nothing else so use a technique that has a high probability in bringing in a bull first. No guarantees a bull will show first, BUT, the odds are stacked in your favor that if you use B you've increased your odds of bringing a bull in before cows or spikes over choosing A or C!
The reason for considering an Advertising bull or a bull Introducing himself into a new area in this situation is it raises curiosity in the bull you heard or any bull within earshot, that's the point, they are intrigued as to who you are & where you may fit into the pecking order, this is important as rutting action (hot cows) picks up. They have a need to size up the competition! The more you Advertise the more their curiosity is peaked. A few bugles here doesn't cut it, this is a time to represent yourself as a true competitor & force them to take notice.
Yes we do this on OTC Public Land hunts. We are generally away from others hunters or at least we hope we are! (grin) It really doesn't matter to us if we're working a bull, we stay focused & do our best to get it done! -- If the bull or no elk show up you've not hurt a thing, those elk are still there, they just didn't show, you can back out & still hunt them another day! We've used this method so many times I can not count them over the years. It flat kicks but & brings bulls in, yes they come in silent most of the time but that's expected, point is they come in! (grin)
Bruce, I'll be happy to respond to your thoughts in a few. Thanks bud!
ElkNut1
It is impossible to say that bull calls will peak his interest more than cow calls, in my way of thinking. I could be wrong as I am no expert. But, if you close on that bull in this situation, a shot of love to a nearby , nonchalant, all dressed up but no where to go bull, would seem more interesting than a potential whale tail to the brisket.
If not for the urge to procreate, the rutting activity everyone speaks of simply wouldn't happen. That is reality no matter the animals we hunt. How do you know he is likely not alone? How do you know he isn't a satellite bull that would prefer a sweet cow versus a bull that is going to kick the crap out of him? I'm asking how do you know all these things from the info you provided? How do you know he isn't call shy from pressure? See what I'm saying? How are we supposed to KNOW this is the best thing to do with the info you are providing?
I'm interested in killing elk. Cow elk eat real good too. Satellite bulls do as well. Don't know if I have eaten a dominant herd bull. But, it can't be any better.
1 - Of course situations can turn on on us all, it's how well prepared we are to handle them in adjusting right during an encounters is where lots of experience in these encounters comes into play to make the needed adjustments. Sometimes a little luck can go a long ways too! (grin)
2 - Who said anything about a Herd Bull? I did not mention that, in this situation we are after any bull, not the herd bull? When using an Advertising Sequence with very little to no bugling on the real bulls part this method can prove deadly! Here we are targeting any & all bulls, the first one in gets the arrow. We are not concerned at all if there is one bull or multiple bulls or cows, point is bulls generally show first! I have pulled in as many as 5 satellites at one time & many singles because of playing the curiosity card I mentioned above.
3 - Not sure what you are referring to here as we are quite a distance away from any elk, we are not sneaking in we are setup here! I have used this sequence dozens of times & can see how well it works, it's one to consider. I can see from your comments you have not used it, your comments are all about possible theories. Please try it a 1/2 dozen times in a similar situation I described & I think you'll like it! (grin)
4 - No sir, no one method can work on every elk. This is why we need a full bag of tricks to utilize the one needed for the task at hand & then you still may have to adjust or retreat as the caller if two of you. Not sure why you mention this as I mentioned this very thought in my original post? Thanks!
ElkNut1
Heck, I watched my buddy Kirk say, "F it" and go sprinting in from 100yds out right into a herd of elk...pull up 35 yds from the herd bull and put an arrow in him while he just stood there with cows going everywhere....the whole thing took maybe a minute.
Maybe there should be an "other" response option to these quizzes- grin
I sent you a PM.
ElkNut1
Bob, thank you! That makes total sense, congrats on your AZ bull!
Bruce, Thanks, I will consider that! Nothing wrong with running at elk you see & know are there! (grin) You know yourself I've done the same thing, this scenario did not lean itself to that method! (grin) The main thought to this Quiz is to get folks to think outside the box. Every year hunters hear one or two bugles early a.m. & don't know what to do with it? This is an option not an "all in" or nothing else!
A lot of successful hunters these day do very little calling. They spot & stalk or treestand/ground-blind elk at waterholes, trails, ponds, mineral licks, etc. Nothing wrong with that, I do it myself on occasion. But calling elk is an art. As you mentioned earlier there are times we have to switch gears completely to have an encounter work to our advantage. The best elk hunters are the ones most versatile & can handle nearly any situation that may arise.
Info like this isn't for all the elk killers here it's for the hunters who want to be in that category someday.
The Quiz in this thread is bull specific, no cows! Not a herd bull but any branch antlered bull. We have killed a bunch with this method & offer it to others who may not know how to handle those more quiet elk. I suspect that most hunters who responded to this thread have not killed a bull with this method under the circumstances provided, maybe now they will! (grin) There are so many ways to call & take bulls but if you rely on one or two methods as "do it all" you will lose out on a ton of encounters. Threads as this are shared to open others eyes so they too can experience a variety of ways to hunt elk.
ElkNut1
Here's the young curious guy that was taken!
ElkNut1