Legality of "building a wallow"
Elk
Scouting for elk is all year for me. Right now I Have a spot that holds a good herd of elk about 30 head that are there year round. They tend to water in a marked water hole right next to a dirt atv trail that gets used quite a lot. During season, pressure makes them water at night. Is it legal to dig a wallow or catchment in a low spot off the road about a mile? I am thinking about 7 feet by 5 feet and about 2 feet down in the bottom of a valley. I am in AZ
Which land management agency? State of Arizona, Forest Service, BLM, or?
I believe there's a "Don't ask, don't tell" policy for public lands. If questioned, tell them you're building a transgender animal bathing area and you will probably get an award.
Lou X 2.
Seriously, just do it man. It will be a help t the wildlife too. God Bless men
Legal? eh. Prob not.
But neither is driving 70mph in a 65mph zone
Too late now....the cat's out of the bag. The LEO's will be watching for ya now.
I think the better question is would you be punished for hunting over some other guy's man made wallow? I mean....you just happened on to it.
I agree with bow freak and Lou lol.
If it is govt. land and you ask, it's almost certain the answer will be no. Or... the red tape to do so will be so not worth it.
This falls under the 2 "S" Shovel and Shutup !!!
"Your packet of permit applications will be mailed out within 4-6 weeks"
jaquomo ... that cracked me up!!
Isn't there even a law you can't trim trees on Nat'l Forest land w/o a permit? How can you set up a tree stand or make a ground blind or even cut away pesky tree limbs for a tent site?
Right is right, and wrong is wrong. You, alone, must decide on the ethical AND legal standards you choose to live by, along with the consequences that come from that decision.
Personally, I wouldn't come to a website and ask the opinion of people who have no skin in the game (unless they are willing to fork out the $ if their advice is completely wrong and you are fined). Most mean well, others respond just for the humor factor (yes, some answers make a guy smile), but as far as I know, none are lawyers and or State wildlife officials.
Call the Game and Fish department, ask your question, and form your decision from their answer. Then go back to my first paragraph.
Any conservation officer will tell you it is a form of baiting.
There is no such thing as a completely 100% bonafide law abiding citizen...people probably break the law by just getting up in the morning.
I wouldn't sweat it.
Ok, seriously, the laws are so ambiguous that no one can definitively tell you if it is legal or illegal.
In Colorado it isn't considered baiting. From the Big Game regulations: "Bait means to put, expose, distribute or scatter salt, minerals, grain, animal parts, or other food as an attractant for big game."
When we put out decoys, we are doing it for the express purpose of attracting animals. Same with mock scrapes. No one will tell you that's "unethical" (well, except maybe for some purist idiots whose opinions are irrelevant anyway). How many food plot threads are there on this site? Good grief!
If a landowner on a small stream drops a log or two or stacks some rocks to improve fish habitat, not only is it legal, it's encouraged so long as the water flow isn't restricted in such a way that it affects the water rights of downstream water owners.
Here's how ambiguous the laws can be: When the idiot voters in CO outlawed baiting, no one could define whether hunting over a gut pile was illegal. I was doing an article on it at the time and interviewed several WCOs and DWMs. All said not only was it legal, they encouraged it. They considered it to be "baiting" if you moved or repositioned the gut pile over near a good tree for a treestand.
Keep in mind, the HSUS wrote the bear law, not biologists or Division of Wildlife or legislators.
Then I contacted the CDOW legal department in Denver and spoke to the head guy. He told me it is definitely illegal, even if the gut pile hasn't been moved, because it isn't a "naturally-occurring food source". I asked what part of "hunting" and gutting an animal isn't natural and he went around in a circle, as one would expect a lawyer to do.
I then asked if it was legal if you happened upon a dead elk or gut pile in the woods and knew nothing about the origin. Again, he replied that it would be considered baiting. I went back to the WCOs and DWMs and they thought that was ridiculous, said no WCO would write you up for that, and to go hunting and kill a bear.
Later that fall when we took my bear in to be checked, a WCO I hadn't spoken to and didn't know asked if we'd killed an elk also. My partner replied "yes". He then laughed and said, "I'll bet your bear hunting improved after you killed that elk, eh?!" Then he congratulated me on the pretty blonde bear. I actually called the bear in with a diaphragm and killed it, not anywhere near the elk gut pile.
Point is, it's very likely not illegal because no lawyer ever thought of making it illegal. If it's unethical, then so is decoying and building mock scrapes, fake rub lines, licking branches, planting food plots, etc, etc.. Go build your little wide spot in the stream, hunt it with a clear conscience, and best of luck with your efforts.
Love Jaquomos answer lol. Now, wouldn't building a wallow be the same as making mock scrapes? Do it and just hope another Hunter or three don't happen upon it, then you'll have competition to hunt over it.
I never really thought about it until I saw your questions. Several years ago in Idaho my partner and I came across what had obviously been a wallow on a little shelf with some water draining through it. Part of the "dam" on the downstream side that created the puddle that was used as a wallow had either been washed away or disturbed by and animal and it wasn't holding water any more. We put a handful of rocks and mud back in and it started holding water again. We walked past it several times as it was right next to a trail we used to get into a drainage and it was obvious animals were watering there, but no bulls were using it as a wallow while we were on the trip.
Do I think there was anything unethical about what we did? Absolutely not. Do I think that it could in any way be considered baiting? Not unless water is considered baiting and I don't think even the tinfoil hat guys would go that far. The closest I could see to it being an issue would be a riparian issue and I don't think anyone would ever take it to that extreme.
I have also done similar things to create a small pool of water to make it easier to get water with a filter. If we get down to worrying about something at this level, we have obviously solved all the other problems in the world.
I'm with Jaq! Post photos on the internet when your done... ;-)
I dug this little spring out two summers ago at my ATV spike camp to use to filter water and chill refreshing beverages. Before I did this, it was just a little trickle over 1/4" of sand, but ice cold, crystal clear water coming out from below that rock. Afterward I could filter out a gallon at a time.
Last year when I went back, there were elk tracks all around it where they were watering and they'd pawed it out to make it bigger.
I know a place where there is a tiny seep but it only hold water when it's dug out. A hard rain will fill it back in. I've never even thought about it being illegal to dig it out. I've also wanted to build a little catch hole in a couple of places but it's not worth it when I don't draw the tag very often.
Jeez, I was even thinkin' of a liner...... gonna do it... do it right!
Those blue tarps from all my experience are even bio-degradable.... never had one that didn't disintegrate after a year or two..... =D
I'd dig the hole. If that's the worst thing you ever do then you'll be the best guy I ever knew. Technically it's probably against the law ( I'm guessing ) but I still don't see the big deal . You have pretty honorable intentions.
That is some awesome water! Lou started scratching around in the dirt and 3 beers popped out.
I guess you have to take in consideration the rules of a state. I know to many Game Wardens that would say the intent is to attract an animal with a food staple (water). An animal wouldn't know the intent was for a wallow.
Still, I wouldn't worry about it and proceed forward. Thought about it myself a time or two.
"Last year when I went back, there were elk tracks all around it where they were watering and they'd pawed it out to make it bigger."
Lou, I'd say you are dealing with some type of an elk criminal element here. Behavior like this is punishable by death! Of course I've been know to dig deep to get a Busch beer or two in my day so who can blame them!
I think you need to post the GPS coordinates so we can "check" to see if you will be ok............
Call BB! He used to build wallows all the time.
If you build it he will come.
You really want to work that hard?
Interesting thread. I had never thought about something like this scenario. A few years ago, we cleared some fallen trees from a well used game trail that headed up to our stand because the trail would divert and send the elk off in another direction that was too far to get a good shot from our spot.
Hopefully that would not be considered illegal?
Mike
Jaquomo, that last picture you posted is definitely baiting.... :)
Yep, I came back to camp and two hippie chick hikers were sitting there draining my refreshments...
oh... we're teein' em up now... =D
Lou if the hippie chicks weren't wearing yoga pants you might need to add a small bag of herb to entice a better trophy class
I love the smartass factor on the Bowsite! Keep 'em coming!
I thought people in CO drank coors.
Jaquomo, that right there is a clean water act violation if I ever saw one. paragraph 12 specifically mentions porters, stouts and IPAs as exempted from section 404!
To the original poster.....you will need a permit from either the USFS, BLM, or the state (depending on who manages the land) to build ANY type of water catchment and be legal. Good luck with that, as it's difficult enough to obtain a permit for one of the many conservation groups (MDF, RMEF, etc.).
Dang, Roy, I could go to prison for making my little water/beer cooler!
300 pound tatooed cellmate to me, "Whaddya in for?"
It's FAR worse than jail time, Lou......they hit you where it really hurts.......your wallet. :)
Could always claim you were preping a latrine for your hunting party that was coming in to camp soon.... size required cuz they're all full of it....
Lou, you could show the cellmate your xrays.... first impressions and all....
Stake a mining claim, I assume one can still do this I used to (60's - 70's) see them posted frequently on public land in Northern California, and do a bit of excavating.
