When do you bring someone new?
Elk
Contributors to this thread:
We have all been there. When do you bring a new person to your elk camp?
The risk is showing your honey holes to someone new. But how do you really get to know someone, unless its at elk camp?
The reward is gaining a buddy to enjoy your favorite pastime.
Does the reward outweigh the risk?
Personally I have to know the guy for many years and have hunted with him in various settings multiple times. I have to know firmly that he is committed, dependable, and trustworthy. I also have to know that I can count on him to be a decent guy to hang around in camp, positive attitude, good drive, and will have my back in a pinch. I also need to know he's a good worker and contributor. If I can check all those things off my list and you show an interest in elk hunting then you'll get an invite.
Nobody is ever new. I knew the young guy I hunt with now for years, and we did a bunch of little hunts before we got engaged. He put me thru the same interview too.
When do you bring a new person to elk camp? Easy, when it's me. Come on guys I have a strong back and a hoochie mama. ;)
I've had good luck and bad luck. Lost a couple friends when they burned me and brought others after promising to keep the little spots secret.
Now I'm hunting a huge, difficult area. The only people I've taken were a couple Bowsiters who are serious hunters and willing to scout via maps and satellite in off season, and at least once on the ground in the summer. That way they have some skin in the game. They have honored the trust I placed in them and we've had some good hunts.
Yeah, that's tough question, especially for a good otc spot.
What comes around goes around. After moving and a new job, one of my co- workers has pointed me onto spots that have been much better than anything I could have stumbled upon without a ton of effort.
There are more quality, productive areas close to home than I have free time.
Other than being stuck with a tag last year myself, the 4 years I've had my son out we have had lots of opportunities on decent Bulls for OTC tags.
after all your other friends bail! because their always pack n meat out for ya....hahaha
I think any time specially with young kids MikeC
I like taking new guys. I quit expecting any spot would stay a secret and that makes its easier when the guy you took shows up with his weird brother-in-law, a drunk chic and a mean dog the next year.
Being pretty bad at killing elk keeps the amount of requests manageable :^)
Got burned by my then best friend. Took me 4 yrs to get past that and place my trust in someone else. One of the best decisions I ever made. Sam and I hunted together for nearly a quarter century before he retired and moved back to Tennessee. Other than my son, haven't brought anyone new in and don't know if I ever will.
You just have to live and learn over the years and you will figure out what kind of person is trustworthy and who is not. Someone is always waiting to prove you wrong when you think you finally have it all figured out. It is a never ending cycle.
The reward does outweigh the risks. Especially since most of the otc places I go are no better than anywhere else; and the number of hunt camps that show from one year to the next is always different. So to me there is not really all that much to worry about in regard to any secret spot getting away from you.
Years of solo hunting got me this way. When you run a tight camp and the elk hunting is only so-so, there are not to many takers anyway, and those that still want to hunt after the interview process and actually go once; they usually don't ask to come back either.
In fact I went solo last year. Ran into another guy hunting solo and we hit it off just fine. It was his first time in the area. He killed a fine bull the very next day after he asked me where I thought he should try to hunt. I call that win-win too.
One of my best friends asked for a spot where he could take his elderly dad to kill an elk with a bow. The dad was a good friend also. After the usual promises I showed them one of my slam dunk spots. Dad didn't kill an elk but missed one at a waterhole.
Later that fall I was guiding rifle hunters on a nearby ranch and decided to take a drive over to the NF one afternoon. There I find my former good friend camped there with four business clients. Since then that spot has been wrecked.
OTOH, last year I ran into another solo hunter in the woods, the only hunter I encountered all season. Guy from MN about my age. He was tracking a wounded bull and I helped him. It was a bad shot and we didn't recover the bull but hunted together for a couple days. I taught him how to call and he showed me a real hotspot I didn't know about. We plan to hook up for a few days this fall.
I give a lot of credit and thanks to those that have helped me on this site alone. I have asked a bunch of questions without trying to ask for specific spots; mostly just how-to's. Many have been very open with sharing those types of things. I made a promise to my wife that I wouldn't head out alone in the mountains; being a flatlander from MN. My friends and I have different goals for hunting and I am the only one with the elk bug, so I posted on BS a few years back for anyone looking to help mentor an elk newbie. I had offers from Robb BULELK1, and Bruce BEENDARE to come on out. You guys may have heard of these two...;0) Robb hit my schedule the best and we have hit it off great ever since. Thanks again Robb!! Both are stand up guys all around and I have honored my end of it by saying nothing about where I go. Respect both ways....and that is probably the key. I am trying to locate some new areas on my own this year and Lou has helped me out with a strategy to help me get going. Thanks again Lou! A big thanks to BS for being the platform with which I am able to make these connections. I hope to find a place or two on my own and be able to help mentor new elk hunters in the future and help keep this dream alive. TODDY
I don't know about Elk camp. I hunt whitetails in Vermont. My friends and I like to take at least one new hunter out each year. The way we see it our sport relies on the public valuing the animals we hunt. Without that perception of value we are all doomed.
Jaquomo, you know you can always bring me if you need a strong back!
I bring new people with me every year. They're almost never accomplished hunters on their own, so they're not going to steel my spots or anything like that. I brought my brother and his 2 friends from wisconsin out last year for their first hunt. We hunted 9 days, I didn't pick up my bow once. We shot 3 elk. Getting people into hunting is kind of my thing though. I get enjoyment from sharing an elk adventure with other people. But I usually have to know you quite well!
Thanks, Toddy! There are plenty of good guys on BS willing to help someone who is sincere and willing to put in effort. I'm mentoring a half dozen guys now on finding new spots for this fall. Hopefully none of you will run into each other! ;-)
Jordan, you hike way too far for me! I could send you on a goose chase for four miles and have you end up meeting me at an evening ambush spot 1/4 mile from the county road... You'd feel like you've "hunted" and our pack out will be short.
I've had both deer camps and elk camps.
Big difference in camps and who attends
I've helped a few guys out with whitetail spots, but I'm a flatlander. Every elk spot I know has been revealed to me by friends. They aren't my spots to share. So it's really simple for me.
This stuff isn't rocket surgery. It's common courtesy. If someone gives you the gift of information that they earned, shut up. It's not yours to give away.
And if someone is incapable of sharing something with you, check your entitlement at the door, respect it and don't be a badgering d-bag.
Sorry if I sound a little surly, but I had a guy hammering me again today because he wants me to give him some of my elk meat. Check that. Obnoxiously demanding that I hand some over. There's another thread for you.
If I ever have a seizure, get bit by a zombie or something and turn into "that guy" I hope that I can count on some of you to punch me in the mouth or hit me with sticks.
As I um, mature, I get more out of showing someone the ropes. That said I only have a couple of guys I will spend 10 days with in camp.
I have been the newbie on several occasions with Bowsiters and I hope I can pull my weight. Not everyone gets it. I drew a tag this year on an invite and would rather help pack a bull out of a hell hole for him than get one myself. For me that is what it is all about.
Take a calculated chance and you may just be surprised.
You mean like a full time elk hunin' partner?
We all have been led to certain areas, but as for me I have had to learn most areas on my own. My family never hunted so I started late in life at the age of 23 and learned the hard way. I have helped with info on areas but it's always a risk you have to be willing to take. There are some Bowsite guys I will give them all the info I know on a area due to the fact that I simply trust them. When I help with info I really want them to harvest as if I was hunting my own hunt.
Ive helped a lot of guys take their first elk over the years. But my elk camp isnt an open invitation.
Last year Aaron Johnson got the nod
Never>>> It will usually come back to bite you in the ASS !!!
Therefore i usually hunt by myself....And i kinda like it that way;)
You have to know the combination to their safe and 4 digit pin to their debit card. Then it's okay.
It can be a tough decision for some guys and I get it. I've been fortunate enough to share camp with some good guys and all of those guys are friends still today. Those same guys know that I would help them succeed or offer to share a camp with them as well regardless of the species. I enjoy just being around "like-minded" guys in camp, makes the experience more enjoyable.
It's first and foremost about respect for those individuals, the spots they have obtained and most importantly maintaining those friendships which means the most to me regardless of where they have taken me to hunt. I have several friends who have helped me succeed in hunting deer, elk and turkeys. A couple of those guys are on this thread (cnelk and EmbryOklahoma).
Rick (EmbryOklahoma) actually has a list of questions... One of the first being "are you a firefighter?" Because of the days off they get and can spend on the lease. That one caught me off guard. LOL!
Except for my best friend from high school and my family, most of my friends I have met in elk camp. Whether they were invited by family or just camped near us. My best hunting buddy Ed I actually met in our family camp spot nearly 30 years ago. Since then we've added few new hunters. However 2 years ago we added the grandson of a work friend of mine (needed a strong -young back )I've known this kid since he was 1 year old and knew I could trust him. Some of the other camps around us have stumbled on to some of our honey holes, but still no trust has been breached.
I have a standard "routine" for bringing a new guy to elk camp. Here's a guy we brought along last year.
I have been doing it for years and years.
Started locally with my Llama Packstring and then on to the internet with BS and M&M into Colorado/Utah DIY every fall.
I think I am on year 7-8? on sharing my Wyo elk camp with fellow BS members.
This year Team Indiana and the old school Team Pa. are coming out again----different timeframe---so no real overlap and I have a great 'excuse' to stay an extra week in Wyo---elk hunting! haha
I don't think I can remember a bad hunt week with any 'strangers' from the BS or M&M.
To this day, the best form/bow shooter I have ever seen was a fellow from New Jersey---that guy was one hell of a bow shot.
You and BigDave a certainly welcome any time TODDY.
Good luck, Robb
Can't imagine the balls of steel it would take to come back to an area someone shared with you.
The learning experience alone would be extremely valuable. If they have a hot spot they are taking you to, I would be trying to figure out what makes it a hot spot so I can go find similar spots in other areas/states. I would be learning the techniques they use to kill bulls in their areas.
Then, hopefully, you've made a new friend that you can someday pay back by sharing a hot spot of your own.
^^^I am the new guy. The only thing I know about elk hunting is to not talk about elk hunting. :)
In this day and age, if you are hunting public land for Elk... NEVER! (Unless it's a kid or beginner your just trying to give a start)
It's more about the friendships that get ruined over these situations then the spoiled hunting areas.
I own property that my former BF also hunted and helped with occasional chores and upkeep. We also hunted some property owned by my then farmer. After a falling out with the farmer over some farm management issues and liberties he was taking behind my back, we were no longer able to hunt his properties. To make a long story short, my BF took it upon himself to cook up a deal with the farmer that allowed him to stay on the property (minus me, of course), even though he knew the farmer had essentially embezzled from me. That will ruin a friendship in a hurry... He's since realized his mistake, and we're still friends today. But the friendship is nowhere close to what it used to be, and we no longer hunt together.
This hobby we all enjoy, can and will make people do dumb things. No doubt about it.
Yup, I've been there and gotten burned as well.
I think that if you are friends and your hunting goals & methods are in sync...why not? The worst that can happen is that you lose a couple of honey holes; cause if the guy goes back there without you, he wasn't your friend anyway!
When you are fully prepared for your spot to become our spot. And all the cap that goes with that.
I've taken in the past 4 or 5 "good" friends I had hunted with in the past so knew how they were. MY "best" bowhunting buddy burned me. I took him to my favorite Elk place & the next year & a couple after he showed up with 4 of his buddies.. After that, family only & my hunting buddy from NY do I share with. My knees are shot so my Elk days are done.
On a different note. I was recently approached by my little brother asking if I'd consider hunting earlier in the season to overlap the muzzleloader season in Colorado. He has always wanted to hunt elk, but due to his job schedule has never had the opportunity. He obviously would like to hunt with someone who knows what he's doing and to show him the ropes (not that I'm on top of my game, but I certainly can show him what not to do....)
My issue is, he's not someone I'd normally share an elk camp with. He's not in the greatest of shape, and he's a heavy chain smoker. I've addressed his smoking on several occasions, which he admits is a filthy habit, but one due to his occupation and the smokers around him is tough to lick. It's been put on the back burner for now, but I'm sure will come up again in the future.
Bigred go on a camping trip with your brother and hunt after he leaves. If it works out it might be his driving force to clean up a bit.
BigRed,
We have a guy that smokes. Hell I'm pretty sure he smokes while hunting, or at least he did. He is welcome in our camp, but he can't smoke anywhere near us, and he always hunts alone, because we straight tell him we will not hunt with someone who smokes. This year, he finally gave up smoking for the whole elk trip. So elk hunting can be a good reason to quit smoking for some people!
Lou, I would take a 1/4 mile hike over what we do any day! I'll take to hind quarters and the rack for a 1/4 mile! We could one trip that!
Bigred, family can be tricky. When you find a good spot, people want in. It doesn't matter if it's a fishing spot, elk spot, turkey spot, bear spot, etc.. Work their way in, bring other friends, argue with landowner or blab too much. Tricky indeed.
Never take a "friend" to a public hunting or fishing location unless you are willing to have that spot taken over by the "friend" that you helped out. Too many people are lazy and are willing to take advantage of a friend's generousity.
ohio, you nailed it. Not that I'm worried about giving up a prized honey hole, my bigger concern is getting him to elk camp and over exerting himself and having some form of health scare. I'm in decent shape, and prepare each summer to get in better condition to head to the mountains. Yet I'm still surprised at how long it takes to acclimate to the altitude. And I make at least three trips a year from the plains to the high mountains. So I know what to do to make that acclimation successful.
My brother doesn't spend a lot of time in the high mountains, nor would he worry about being in the kind of shape it takes to be an elk hunter rather than a camper. And the areas I hunt, his chance of success with a muzzleloader would be fairly high. And we all know the kind of condition it takes to hunt elk is nothing compared to the condition it takes to get one off the mountain...
I'll keep working on him to kick the habit, and maybe dangling the elk carrot in front of him is the push he needs.
Sorry to highjack this thread.