For discussion purposes, my questions will be about non-pressured elk.
Scenario: First light in the morning (or last light in the afternoon) you spot some elk, they are moving away and you are certain you can not catch up with them right now so you mark the location .... my question is - what are the chances they will be there tomorrow morning / evening?
I know my question is extremely vague, but I here guys say they will return to the "marked" location, maybe there isn't any correct answer .
Maybe a better way to ask is ... for those of you who have glassed and then returned the next morning (evening) to hunt "those" glassed elk ... how many times were they back the next morning.
Cheesehead Mike ... you mentioned in one of Elknut's threads (glassing / calling elk) how you "go in after the elk" (dark timber) ... how are you locating the elk. Are you, just quietly moving through, bugling, cow calling. Are you doing anything specific to "locate and hunt" the elk in the dark timber, do you follow game trails, find wallows and hunt that area?
How do the rest of you hunt the thick timber?
For me, I'm practically deaf so bugling to find and chase the elk is off the table. I mainly set wallows and/or game trails .... I have some success but would like to try something different.
In your situation with poor hearing I would look at a topo map,figure out likely bedding,feeding areas and ambush them when they move either in the morning or evening always keeping wind and thermals in mind. Typically by me Elk with move out of thick timber in the evening to feed so I just look for trails that are used the most with fresh sign,often if they are not pressured they will come out of the same trail they went in on.
Bigger herds are often found in more open areas. Where I hunt now in heavy timber, a "big" herd is 15 animals, not 80 or more like where I hunted before in more open country. I now look for terrain breaks and benches, travel routes from drainage to drainage, and cover lots of ground to find fresh sign. Often a herd might be 8-10 cows or less and a big herd bull, with satellite bulls cycling around and covering LOTS of ground.
The good news is that when I find elk they tend to stay in the same relative areas until blown up. The bad news is that the wind goes totally swirly from 9:30 until 6:00 so I have to hunt surgically and get out before it starts swirling or the elk will blow out. Finding more elk in solid timber is much more difficult than hunting the same herd for multiple days by being careful.
Last season I was able to hunt a 360-class bull and his 7 cows for an entire week on the same heavily-timbered mountainside. I found them by looking for evening sign during mid-day far from any potential bedding area, then figuring out what they were doing by being cautious and looking at tracks on the lower end of trails.
Should have killed him except for a mountain bike wreck that cracked three ribs and limited my mobility for the rest of the season. This all went on a half mile from a busy highway because nobody thought to hunt there. It had everything elk need: feed, water, transition cover and thick bedding cover, and nobody bothered them there.
I also suffer from hearing loss and highly recommend hearing aids...while they have greatly affecting my ability to hear, sometimes my directional ability is not as good. Pretty comical; on first hearing a bugle, I may point north and my buddy will look at me like I have three heads as point west...the correct direction!
Once at your glassing spot your length of stay can be determined how big of an area you are glassing. 30 minutes to an hour or longer for larger areas is normal for us bowhunters, if a very small area then possibly less, staying longer doesn't hurt. Find several elevated spots via topo maps or by burning boot leather to locate areas to glass once there. Once elk are found, note their direction of movement. If in the morning these elk are in their feeding area or just leaving it & moving towards their bedding area, note their direction carefully & where you lose sight of them in the timber, they are most likely following a trail. That trail could be a promising ambush spot the following morning! Make sure you have wind in your favor at any ambush site before picking a setup spot near the trail but do not set up on the trail itself.
If it's evening glassing ( last 2-3 hours of daylight) then elk are coming out of their bedding areas, again note where they are coming out of the cover or timber, this could be another very good ambush spot for an evening hunt! Watch that wind, you do not want to be winded even for a second or it's game over! Wind will generally be coming down the mountain in the morning & in the evenings.
Here's a photo of a general glassing area I look for. I want to be elevated enough to take full advantage of what the area offers.
ElkNut1
The elk were going to & from using that strip of green timber running just under the bowl. There was no doubt a trail or two they were using & it had to be heavily abused. I went in & looked for it, here's what was found in the next photo.
ElkNut1
When setting up off a trail & staying on the ground we like finding a good spot with decent concealment or make our own out of debris & branches or boughs from nearby trees. Make sure shooting lanes are cleared & we remove all noisy debris like pine cones, small sticks/branches or anything that may make noise underfoot as we wait the elks arrival. You never know when you may have to soot around a bit at the shot, being quiet is important here to stay undetected.
ElkNut1
This bull was taken off the trail above in that green strip of timber early in the morning as the group returned, yes they can pay off!
ElkNut1
I was glassing this drainage one evening and watched these 10 cows, a herd bull, and one satellite come out of the bedding timber. I sat on my perch and watched them rut until dark. It was a great show!
Came back the next morning and followed them right back to where they came out the evening before. After a fantastic calling exchange with both bulls, I managed to kill the herd bull at 20 yds.
For once, everything worked like it was supposed to!
First off, I dont have a spotting scope. And Im lucky to remember where my binoculars are at.
That being said I hunt only thick timber. Not only is it thick, it has blown down beetle killed trees everywhere.
So how do I hunt thick stuff? Gotta find the 'pockets'. No matter where you hunt elk there are places that 'look' great but are always barren of elk.
The downed beetle killed trees have actually helped in creating trails and funnels as I find myself ending up on an elk trail as they too have to find their way thru that stuff.
Thermals are your friend. Slowly working into them all morning until they shift works best for me. More often than not, I see/hear elk within 50yds before they see me. And not even using a call.
When I call in the thick stuff, I put a big blow down behind me to eliminate that approach. Then I have 2-3 shooting lanes out front, longest one is maybe 30yds.
I typically kneel when setup. I found I can shoot further as the tree branches start about 4ft high. Doing that, has extended my shots by 10yds or so by shooting under them.
Calling elk in the thick stuff is a rush. Make a few calls and make them look for you. BAM! There they are!
In 2013 I snuck in on a bugling bull, set up within 75yds in the thick stuff, put a blow down behind and had 2 small shooting lanes in front - 20yds max. I made a mew. And had this bull come charging in. I saw flashes of him [legs] at 40yds so I knew what lane he would cross.
I shot him at 15yds. This pic shows how thick it is.
You will hear some guys promoting north/nw facing slopes to find elk.
I have found that elk will go where they are 'un-pressured' and that is south facing slopes if thats where there is no pressure.
I walked up on this bull early August. There are some broken meadows with water in the area. Nothing huge, just a little pocket.
So I hung some trial cams where I saw him and 'Voila' another honey hole - south facing, easy walk
I enjoy the elk threads here...keep up the good work.
In the thick timber I hunt now, where the elk ( especially the older mature bulls) are largely silent and the furthest I can "glass" might be a couple hundred yards if I'm lucky, hearing the subtle herd sounds like cow mews, hooves hitting logs, bull whines, etc.. leads me to way more elk than chasing bugles.
Now I kinda live vicariously through the writing of others...lol.
Yeah, someday the hearing aid is gonna be on the agenda... right now I can still sorta hear.... bad enough for a good excuse though... sometimes the guys I hunt with carry pebbles in their pockets to hit me in the head with when I don't hear something they did....
WRT undisturbed.... if you have a visual on them I'd keep quiet, at least until things are getting set up. "Undisturbed" many times means a quiet bull and that's not a bad way to keep him as long as you have them dialed in. Get into a bugling war with him "just to see what happens" many times give away the location to hunters just over the ridge you never knew were there.... now they have a bull to work up too. And there goes "undisturbed".
When I first started calling it was s real thrill to get a bull firing back and worked up. Now I've found it's usually best for several reasons if you have them located to shut up and stay quiet.
The thing is most of the time you don't know how long they've been there when you first spot them. So as soon as time or sunlight allows you make your move assuming they are there and if they aren't try to figure out by looking at the topo map, or better yet based on your experience in the area, where they might set up shop next.
And if is a really good spot then the saying could also be gone today here tomorrow because other elk will move through eventually.
I do have hearing aids - have had for the past 8 or so years - just upgraded end of 2014. My problem is I'm 97% deaf in my left ear and 65% gone in my right.
With the hearing aids I have, I am able to crank them full open, but standing right next to my partner - he hears the mews and bugles that I don't. At times I can hear the low growl or the end of a chuckle - the high pitch tones - no way. I wish I had used hearing protection as a youngster. "should-a-could-a-would-a". Can't go back and will not whine about it, "it is what it is".
The audiologist(s) all said the same thing - I caused so much inner ear damage from all the years working construction and shooting without hearing protection that eventually I'll be almost completely deaf.
So, wallows and trails and now some still hunting through dark timber is my game plan.
Again, thanks for all the information - anything else to add keep it coming.
If not possible to work him then by all means ambushing the group from their trail leading from feeding to bedding would be my 2nd choice! (grin)
ElkNut1
ElkNut1
I've killed a few elk and have had several encounters.
I'm going to check out another area that I've been looking at for the past few years - about another mile to a mile and a half in further than where I'm at now.
I can get to a very good vantage point with about a 300 foot elevation overlook of this new area. I'm going to bring my spotting scope with me and see if I can get onto something to put a stalk on - hence my interest in rather or not the elk "might" stay put.
I'll see if I can post a picture of what I'm talking about.
Wallows are a real crap shoot & best utilized the first 10 days of Sept. After that bulls can be pre-occupied with rutting action picking up & wallow use can taper off. I would seriously concentrate more towards sitting the trails leading from feeding to bedding, this is where many elk can be using these on a daily basis so this can up your odds for success!
Thanks for the photo!
ElkNut1
I appreciate everything you guys share!
Basically we know that elk generally bed high and feed low, moving down in the afternoon/evening and moving up in the morning. There are exceptions however and I have hunted places where the elk bedded lower in thick cover and moved to higher open mesas to feed during the afternoon/evening/night.
I typically hunt all day. I don’t go back to camp and rest during midday. I know that most of the time I’m not going to be able to keep up with elk as they move up the mountain in the morning. If I started hunting low where they are feeding and tried to follow them up the mountain I might be able to keep up with them for a while and might get a shot opportunity but most likely I would soon be exhausted and they would leave me in the dust. I’ve found that as elk make their way up the mountain they sometimes tend to slow down and mill around feeding and maybe watering/wallowing before they bed down. I’ve had success catching up with elk at those times as well as when they're moving up or down the mountain in the morning or afternoon. I also know that if I’m higher up on the mountain there’s a better chance that I’ll catch elk moving earlier in the afternoon. It’s kind of like the guy who hunts whitetails on the edge of a bean field. He might see more deer but most of them will be in the last minutes of shooting light or later. Meanwhile the guy who figures out their movement patterns and hunts back in the woods or maybe in a staging area will have much more daylight action. I believe this applies to elk as well.
So… to answer your question, I study the topo map of the drainage and try to predict where elk will feed, bed and travel. Then I either pack in and spike camp somewhere in the top 1/3 of the drainage somewhere between what I think are feeding and bedding areas or I try to be in that area shortly after sunrise. I try to pick areas where I have the choice of going multiple different directions into different drainages or tributary drainages. The nice thing about spiking in is you can sometimes be hunting within minutes of crawling out of your tent.
I try to intercept the elk moving up the mountain and since I might be above them I have to watch out for the thermals going down the mountain and try to move in on the elk laterally or at the same elevation. Oftentimes we’ll hear bugles and that will dictate the direction we go. After things settle down in the morning, most of the middle part of the day is spent doing just what you said, quietly moving through the timber, bugling, cow-calling, following and making note of game trails, wallows, rubs, bedding areas, etc. It’s a form of scouting combined with hunting that is more aggressive than the passive act of sitting and glassing. Oftentimes hunt plans for later in the day or the next day are developed based on what we find while hunt-scouting and I can’t list all of the times when all of sudden something happens during the late morning or midday that turns into an opportunity. Sometimes we find really hot sign and we set up and do some calling. Sometimes you can hear bulls bugle half-heartedly from their beds and you can move in and coax them out of their beds. I’ve killed a couple bulls at midday and have had multiple opportunities and close calls that never would have happened if I was sitting on a ridge a mile away glassing.
Once you get a “feel” for where the elk sign is and what’s actually going on in the timber you can adapt your hunt to spend more time in those areas with the concentration of sign. Again, I think you may have a very difficult time doing that type of “fine-tuning” in some areas if you’re spending the majority of your time glassing.
All that being said, both Elkaddict and I killed our biggest bulls to date within 24 hours of each other on consecutive mornings by dogging and flanking the herd through the timber in the first hour of daylight just after they left the meadow down low on the mountain where they fed and bugled all night. Which goes to show that there is no set formula and we have to be flexible to take advantage of whatever situation arises.
There may be guys who say that my/our way of elk hunting is all wrong and I know there are other ways to go about it but this method has worked pretty well for me and my buddy elkaddict.
One thing I've noticed about all the most successful elk hunters on here is they all have their own "style" of hunting. I think that style is developed over several years as they build confidence in what has worked for them in the past in the type of elk country they like to hunt.
So much to learn from all of them, then see how it may apply in the areas I hunt.
