Include shot distance and recovery distance please.
Whitetail last year--14 or 15 yard shot distance. Arrow entered neck, exited belly right in front of his penis, he ran HARD, for about 40 yards. Dead in about 10 seconds.
Those are the only two I've taken, except a recent frontal follow up on a wounded animal, which doesn't really count here. Although it tore him up, and caused him to quickly bed, where I was able to get another follow up into him
Deer. 15 yards. Level. Exited butthole area. 25 yard recovery.
Deer. 5 yards. Looking up at me. Entered white patch, exited sternum until the ground stopped it. Zero yards.
Deer. 12 yards. Slightly quartering to. Entered left of sternum and out right shoulder. 30 yards.
Deer. 15 yards. Slightly below me. When she looked up, I shot her. Entered dead center. Exited between the legs. 30 yard recovery.
Deer. 15 yards. Above deer. When he raised his head. I shot him in the base of the neck. Dropped upon impact.
Deer 12'ish yards. Very slightly quartering to. Hit where neck meets shoulder. Out behind left shoulder. Dropped within 30 yards or so.
I could list a few more but the situations and, the results have all been the same. Close deer. Unalarmed. Facing me equaled a dead deer very quickly. God Blesd
BUGLELK's Link
Corey Jacobsen Elk101.com
Shot distance was 19 yards. Recovery was a couple hundred yards but he bled really well the entire distance... he was a tough old guy.
But maybe even more important to those learning about hunting elk is Corey's perfect timing when drawing his bow. A failure to draw at the right time is the single biggest mistake I see on videos. Had he not drawn when he did, that bull likely gets away. Well done!
Shots are 20yds or less, recovery prob 20-30 yds if that
Dyjack's Link
ElkNut1
I was reading a post yesterday from another site where someone had actually copied and posted a post made by BB on Bowsite about the frontal many years ago. BB was defending/educating about the shot and it was obvious that there was opposition. The thread on the other site was mostly opposition. I think it is interesting how the forums have changed somewhat over the years to the point where it is generally acceptable that not only is the frontal lethal, it is also ethical.
I'm now opposed to the shot, as it ruins too much meat! Lost a lot of that right rear quarter.
22 yard shot, 150 yards recovery. 55# Black Widow recurve, Carbon Express arrow, 200 grn 3-blade VPA broadhead, 620 grain total arrow weight.
Mark
This one was hard quartering in what I refer to as the collar.
10 yds Hard quartering in...30 yd recovery
Treestand "frontal"...10 yds straight down through base of neck...exit wound opposite "armpit"...80 yd recovery
My very first bull was an adrenaline fueled screwup! Shot him at 8 yards straight on...didn't realize my nocking point had slipped. Fortunately, I caught the carotid..300 yard recovery, and another arrow to finish him off after 2 hours.
Best of Luck, Jeff
I knew the 2nd I let the arrow fly I was in trouble, his angle was such that hitting him dead center took the arrow on a course very close to the inside of his left leg, I had screwed up the shot! I should have placed the arrow closer to the inside of his right leg as if looking through the animal to reach his vitals.
I tracked that bull for the next 4 hours all over hell & never found him. At one point he climbed near 500' of elevation, I knew right then I was screwed! Yes, I believe he survived that shot, it didn't stop me from taking it again as I knew the error of my ways, since that bull I have not lost another to the frontal shot & have taken several more with it including the photo I shared above.
ElkNut1
There are many on this site who have experience with frontal shots and who will disagree with that assumption.
The odds of making a fatal gut shot and losing the elk are nearly impossible with a frontal shot whereas it's very possible with the "perfect" broadside shot.
As a side note, I was watching the Primos Big Bulls 10 video last night and they briefly discussed the frontal shot. They commented that they don't take that shot and Keith Burgess stated that the frontal kill zone is about the size of the bottom of the 20 oz. water bottle he had in his hand. Just goes to show I guess that just because you make hunting videos doesn't mean you're an expert on anatomy...
BUGLELK's Link
Most people who have a bad experience with the frontal shot aim too low and hit the sternum, or hit too far to the left or right which causes the arrow to deflect down along the outside of the ribcage (between the ribs and the shoulder blade) and never get inside the body cavity.
I've also attached an image of an actual elk carcass showing the thoracic opening as well as the area between the ribcage and the shoulder. Knowledge of anatomy plus confidence in ability is the key to success with a frontal shot.
"Knowledge of anatomy plus confidence in ability is the key to success with a frontal shot." For some this is a deadly shot that they can consistently pull off but for the average bowhunter does not fall in this category.
"Whats an 'Outfitter'?"
HAHAHA, well done cnelk. The overwhelming positive results from the frontal shot show here tells me that anyone confident in their ability taking the frontal will yield similar recovery rates to longer broadside shots.
I agree the frontal isn't for everyone, like rage lovers and first timers (often rage lovers), hell if I draw on one frontal and I'm shaking too bad I will hold it until the elk turns or my arms give out.
Many thanks, Corey Jacobsen Elk101.com
ElkNut1
Kinda the best of both worlds
Knowing when to draw, reading the elk's movements and terrain will help you make it all come together
Yes, the thoracic opening is probably the best choice on a directly straight-on frontal shot but on a quartering frontal shot you can certainly shoot through the ribs that are between the front of the shoulder and the thoracic opening.
I don't understand why some people feel that a broadside or quartering away shot where the arrow has to pass through the ribs behind the shoulder is the perfect (and only) shot but those same people are critical of a shot that passes through the ribs in front of the shoulder.
A quartering away shot and a quartering to you shot are the same angle through the vitals but with the arrow going opposite directions. Both shots have to pass through ribs (either breaking one or slipping between them) and you need to know where the shoulder bone is on both shots.
I killed my first bull in '98 with a quartering to me frontal shot. I was on my knees at full draw and he came to my calls and stopped directly straight-on frontal at 8 yards. I wasn't familiar with the shot and didn't consider taking it but also didn't know about all the controversy. As I was kneeling there at full draw he noticed me and began to make a slow turn, I instinctively saw my shot, knew I could kill him and took the quartering to me frontal shot in front of his shoulder. He spun and ran 100 yards and was down in seconds and did the death moan. My broadhead was buried in his opposite side rib cage.
First bull and first frontal. If you know anatomy, a frontal isn't a bad shot from close range.
My buddy walking in the leaves 20' to my right didn't hear a thing. We stood for a minute with me trying to convince him. I had him move out in front and we moved about 200yd closer to the bugle and we set up with him behind this 3' dia downed log in the fairly thick timber.
i bugled a challenge and sure enough this bull screams at us 100 yds away. He comes in on a string when I start raking. I see him coming and then turn to try and get our wind walking across in front of my buddy at 25 yds- PERFECT!
Well my buddy comes to full draw and starts to swing with the bull. The bull must have caught his movement as it swung around in a half crouch staring straight at us. I was thinking, "Ugh Oh the jig is up" Right about the time my buddy Kirk let an arrow fly that caught the bull right in the long neck red neck mane and the arrow dissappeared.
That bull reared up exactly like Trigger in the old Lone Ranger series. He pawed at the air for what seemed like 10 seconds and then came down, took 2 steps and toppled over. To this day it was one of the coolest things I've seen when bowhunting. The arrow was lodged in the back ham after taking out everything in the bull lengthwise...and it wasn't a particularly heavy arrow- 2213 from an overdraw that was about 25" long, 70# bow.
BUGLELK's Link
Also....great thread guys and thank all of you for posting such cool content!
I did provide a case above where a frontal shot went bad by myself! It's right here!
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OK, if Bowfreak doesn't mind I'll share one that I screwed up on years ago! I'd called this nice 6 point bull, he came from aprox 150 yards out to my bugling, I could see the tips of his antlers over a volkswagon sized rock 30 yards out & he kept coming sidehilling the steep terrain. I needed him to go to the left of the large rock as he came in for a near 17 yard broadside shot, he didn't! He came to my right, his left, where it was a straighter course right at me. When he got to the rock I drew my bow, as he came slightly around the rock almost straight at me not noticing me at all standing there I settled the pin in the center of his chest & squeezed!
I knew the 2nd I let the arrow fly I was in trouble, his angle was such that hitting him dead center took the arrow on a course very close to the inside of his left leg, I had screwed up the shot! I should have placed the arrow closer to the inside of his right leg as if looking through the animal to reach his vitals.
I tracked that bull for the next 4 hours all over hell & never found him. At one point he climbed near 500' of elevation, I knew right then I was screwed! Yes, I believe he survived that shot, it didn't stop me from taking it again as I knew the error of my ways, since that bull I have not lost another to the frontal shot & have taken several more with it including the photo I shared above.
ElkNut1
The second photo of that water buffalo is really cool!!
Holy ribcage batman! Those things are huge! They look like baseball bats.
Just shows what a well placed arrow and sound knowledge of anatomy will achieve
There is a "comfort zone" of sorts when drawing on an animal. If not comfortable don't take the shot, take a breath, slow things down.... beauty is in the bow-holder.... the bow-holder calls the shots....
Again, absolutely nothing wrong with not taking a shot.
Deadly yes, no question, jus t have to know where to send the arrow.
Great pics all.
ElkNut1
BUGLELK's Link
Paul, I would aim just a touch higher than where that red "x" is placed, just to make sure the arrow doesn't glance off the ribs and end up sliding along the ribcage. At that angle, the odds of the arrow glancing is definitely minimized, but aiming a tad higher will reduce that chance even more.
I like to visualize where I would aim if the elk was broadside, and I would be about 2-3 inches higher than that, and I'd probably pull the arrow over an inch or two to the left.
Corey
ElkNut1
City's shot is what I call the collar and its the same as that frontal shot on hard quartering to you as it takes the same path through that hole in the frontal skeleton- agreed, its deadly.
Louis, I'm also curious how quartered that bull was to you.
On my second elk hunt, this dumb one came in. (We didn't even call, the bull was separated from the herd, spotted us and came in to investigate. I dropped to my knees, nocked and arrow and came to full draw as he trotted in. My buddy was standing about 10' behind me. (You can see how open the area was). I tried to get on the ribcage and I just couldn't do it. I then remembered my anatomy lesson. He was so close (8 yards) I could see where his windpipe went into chest cavity. I aimed about 2" lower and let fly. My buddy saw him throw blood as he whirled. I could see the arrow hanging out of his hip. (You run a Snuffer tipped 2315 lengthwise through a critter, it will not bode well for the critter) We watched him trot off and tip over.
You can see the exit wound just in front of the fletching. About 2/3's of the arrow was hanging out of him and he bent arrow when he tipped over.
It's deadly, but if you don't have the skill or the stones, then pass casue you w ill F$%@(*& it up for sure.
Caddisflinger's Link
Do you apply this same standard to a guy shooting a whitetail broadside? If this is our standard, very few people are capable of shooting well enough to kill anything.
Lots of golf balls can go thru there - at once
ElkNut1
With the 2 elk that I killed with frontal shots, once my sight pin settled on the bull there was no doubt in my mind that those bulls were going to die.
Most of us are very confident in our shooting ability and when you have a bull facing you at 20 yards or less, the kill zone is relatively large.
The 2 frontal shots that I've taken on elk were easier than many of the broadside shots I've killed whitetails with and easier than some of the broadside shots I've killed elk with.
