Contributors to this thread:
I thought this worth sharing, although I'm not trying to start a debate on mechanicals vs fixed blades. I was fortunate to take a mature bull this week. When I recovered the bull I noticed a relatively fresh entrance (no exit) wound just below the spine about 18" back from the front shoulder. While removing the back straps we found a broadhead lodged in the spine of the bull. I should note that the bull was not injured in any way. The broadhead was a 3 blade Rage chisel tip. Although the entrance was approximately 5" below the top of the back, only 1 blade deployed. The broadhead was lodged in the spine, and when removed spinal fluid visibly leaked out of the wound. I wouldn't expect massive penetration from any broadhead into the spine, but was surprised to see only 1 blade deploy and no damage to the animal. Pictures of the recovered broadhead below:
Yep not much room for debate there. Of course some may try.
Yep, absolutely no surprise!!!
I spine shot a good sized buck from 35 yards with a Rage. He dropped down right as I shot and the Rage T-boned the spine. About 1 inch of penetration. The buck dropped in his tracks and died with a follow up shot. I was amazed at the lack of penetration! I shoot a 500 Grain arrow at 70 lbs with a Hoyt Carbon Element. I came home from that trip and switched back to fixed blade broad heads!
Scar.
"but was surprised to see only 1 blade deploy and no damage to the animal."
really?
REALLY ? I mean how could you NOT expect piss poor penetration? The entire design of the broadhead screams poor penetration from the large cut, mechanical action of blades, the weak thin blades themselves etc.
c'mon ....
I do not shoot mechs and do not like them. However My hunting buddy killed a nice bull on our hunt last week in CO and I gotta say... I was pretty impressed the Rage Hypo blew clean thru that bull. He went 40ish yds and crashed. Wasn't a ton of blood tho like everyone always claims. I was just amazed it blasted thru the bull.
Must be a knock off....:)
100 posts...minimum....defending Rage BH's
Look at my profile and you will see what Rage Vs. Elk REALLY looks like... NUFF SAID
Knock off for sure! Think about how lucky you were the guy made a bad shot! Really cool! C
HAHA. Rage is crap and this proves it.
The entire design is wrong for heavy boned large animals.
I currently have a muzzy head in my quiver. That broke 2 shoulders and a rib on a large mature bull. A little work with a file on the tip and new blades and it is awesome.
Elkman, you certainly have a lot of animals on you profile. Were all those killed with Rages?
From: Stretch Date: 15-Sep-16
I thought this worth sharing, although I'm not trying to start a debate on mechanicals vs fixed blades.
LMBO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)
Bottom line....bad shot equals bad result most every time unless you are lucky. Every broad head out there has been shot poorly into an animal and lost at one point or another. Don't tell me that a fixed blade head has never been found while butchering. Not defending one or the other...just stating a fact. These debates are like beating a dead horse into the ground and the same old arguments get tiring after a while.....I know, I know, just ignore and move on. Carry on guys.
x2 what ELKMAN said
.........smells to me like a competitor troll trashing another broadhead, plain and simple........
How about a picture of the bull instead.
Yeah, but the fixed blade head had exposed blades. That's the real issue here.
People can and will defend their broadheads , personally, I don't give a shit but a mechanical head is more likely to fail to cause bleeding due to unexposed blades than a fixed head. It's just that simple and quite frankly a mechanical head is completely unnecessary.
If I wanted to guess what happened here I could guess that the shooter didn't tune his bow well, didn't like the erratic fixed blade flight, bought some shit heads that did nothing more than compound the problem he already had.
Or, shooter is a super tuner, shoots lights out at 100 yards, takes an 80 yard shot because " I had to, it was now or never, he was just to big to not try", bull steps foreword for a mouthful and due to his angle he steps lower on the side hill as well and a broadhead with poor penetration qualities by design makes impact at a considerably lower energy level.
We will likely never know for sure but I'm betting it's one of the above.
Flame away
Damn nice bull! Congrats Stretch.
I once found a 2 blade Magnus with a little bit of aluminum shaft in the vertebrae of a bear I killed. He looked and moved fine showing no signs of injury. Now the rest of the story.....
I killed him on a Friday and the broadhead in the vertebrae was from me making a poor shot on Tuesday.
I Lost a great buck as we'll thanks rage!!!!
Congrats on an awesome bull. As for Rage, I was well ahead of these reports back in 2008... Once you see one bounce off a 130+ class buck, you move on and continue to bash... Best marketed BH ever though.
Hey Rut Nut, or anyone else, what does LMBO mean? By the way Stretch, that's a great bull. What state? I'm much more interested in where the bull came from than the broadhead. Thanks.
but but but...Rage rhymes with Cage....
Not at all a rage shooter...but shot placement is the deal. I've pulled 2 different fixed blade heads out of healthy bulls after they were killed. One was in there for years I'm sure. Shoot em in the breadbasket with anything reasonable and they're yours.
Rage Broadheads - it's like throwing an axe handle at animal.
LMBO= Laughing My Butt Off
I'm not a rage shooter by any means but I think any broadhead placed where that one was would not have killed that elk.
I don't think the opp is trying to show how the rage in the cage didn't kill the bull but rather how the blades didn't even deploy.
When will people learn. There have more and more animals lost/ injured because of a well marketed BH. Shame on the guys who use it, and shame on the tv hunters who whore themselves out to promote it. It's mechanical and just a matter of time when it fails. Today's fixed blade heads fly like field points and don't have the planing issues of the early days, no reason to use a rage, I guess it will take a trophy to escape because the rage in the cage didn't open before users get wise. Remember , a beautiful trophy is a terrible thing to waste.
When will people learn. There have more and more animals lost/ injured because of a well marketed BH. Shame on the guys who use it, and shame on the tv hunters who whore themselves out to promote it. It's mechanical and just a matter of time when it fails. Today's fixed blade heads fly like field points and don't have the planing issues of the early days, no reason to use a rage, I guess it will take a trophy to escape because the rage in the cage didn't open before users get wise. Remember , a beautiful trophy is a terrible thing to waste.
That is an AWESOME elk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
More and more animals are lost/injured to poorly placed BH's than most likely all well placed and marketed BH's combined,I'm guessing'!
Has anyone ever found a fixed head buried in an elk somewhere? I'm not a big Rage fan, but in all honesty, nobody knows the circumstances surrounding this fail. IMO, it is probably mostly a human fail. First, it was a bad hit. Second, we don't know anything about the bow (draw weight, draw length, IBO, arrow weight, etc.) or it's tune. Third, we know nothing about the distance of the shot. Fourth, did the hunter check the broadhead to see if it would open properly (a Rage in good condition should open). But it is only human to blame the broadhead and yell "see I told you so!"
It's mechanical and it's bound to fail. I know plenty of guys who jumped on the rage train and told story's of not opening, only one blade opening etc... They no longer use them and I believe there are plenty of guys who never fess up to loosing an animal due to the rage.
Link: you are correct. Honestly this was the first Rage I've ever touched. I was sharing the pic of the head strictly because I found it interesting that the head cleanly punched through hide (not a glancing shot) and only 1/3 of the blades deployed. Not because I thought it should have been or could have been a lethal shot with any other head. Thanks for the kind comments on the bull. I was going to post in the meat pole thread but something about being a troll made me throw it up here.
In all honesty, we trust our very lives to mechanical things everyday. A new, out of the package mechanical head that is inspected and maintained should be more than adequate to kill an elk if placed in the vitals if the bow is adequate and tuned. The hunter has to make good decisions regarding shot distance, etc. On heavy bone, all bets are off, regardless of type of head.
12yards... that is the argument that is always used... but... the blades did not deploy. On a perfect shot, that might not matter. On anything less than a perfect shot, that will matter quite a bit...
Lol, these threads never disappoint.
12 yards.... that reminds me of something I was told long ago. An airplane has hundreds of thousands of mechanical parts, sensors and switches that are made by companies that were the lowest bidders.
Guys, Shooting an elk in the spine is like shooting a cinder block. I think it's more a question of shot placement than what broadhead you use.
I was talking to a guy who owns an archery shop. He told me that there are over 400 different kinds of broadheads out there. Shoot what you are comfortable with.
TMBB
"He dropped down right as I shot "
Am I the only bowhunter that just plain shoots high occasionally?
"He ducked the string, he jumped the string, he took a step forward, he took a step back..."
"Honest I was aiming for the guts I didn't put a hole in the cape or the liver...I love deer liver, you know..."
I've shot a few animals with a Rage. No problems. Short, heavy blood trails. Shoot Magnus Stingers or Black Hornets because they fly well, and I support Kansas companies.
Probably the bowhunter I respect the most shoots them. He's something like 19 of the last 20 years getting a bull. All mechanicals. Before that he cussed the things.
just remember, long thin blades outperform solid thick ones, are tougher and more durable too, mechanicals deploying blades heads use less energy than fixed heads, wide cuts take less energy than smaller diameter cuts, aluminum ferrules are tougher than steel, 3 blades out penetrate 2 blades
that's what you have to believe to stand behind mechanical broadheads being superior to fixed bladed
mechanical head is more likely to fail to cause bleeding due to unexposed blades than a fixed head. It's just that simple and quite frankly a mechanical head is completely unnecessary.
YEAH UNECCESSARY.
Shoot within your range only with good shot angles and you won't be temped by the mechanical sales ads, testemonies, etc. begging you to do otherwise, expecting that new technology, blade deployment to make up for it.
I agree Mad_Angler, but to me that means the hunter should have checked the head to be sure it would work properly. There had to be something wrong with the head if it didn't open. Regardless, a fixed head may have suffered the same fate.
writer, I definitely do "Shoot High Sometimes" Ask the very tall and wide 3X3 I shot over 3 weeks ago:/ voooop- right over his back, off he goes!
I have killed a bunch of stuff with Rage, but after the horrible penetration on the spine shot I realised there where better options out there.
Scar.
Rage is proof if you have the right marketing scheme, you can sell anything to anyone.
Serious question for this particular case only: Any way possible the blades were "pushed" back into position over time inside the animal? To me, that seems more logical then the blades failing to open.
Rage is advertising "huge entry holes" now!! No kidding, listen to some of the new ads. Use what ya want, just know it has been proven that the more working parts something has, the more that can go wrong. Shawn
The second deer I shot with a Rage looked worse than that. I say it looked like a wrinkled beer can. Threw the Rages away and learned to tune my bow.
Looking at the entrance in the hide and the blackstrap only one blade deployed. Couldn't guess as to why I know nothing about these heads.
Congrats on the bull, I guess it worked out for the best that the other hunter used new technology!
"its mechanical and its bound to fail" says all the na sayers as they shoot their compound bows. I'm not a Rage user and I also shoot a compound so I therefor have a realistic view. Shoot what you want and don't worry about anyone else. You guys just can't wait to pounce. I'm very surprised by some of you reading some of the names that commented. Archerdan and 12yards, you guys make a great points.
I took my biggest buck with a rage 3 blade. Would have gone clean through, but it lodged very hard in the opposite shoulder. I have a short draw so my old Bear buckmaster 2 bow has low KE.
That was many years ago when they 1st came out. Now the 3 blades are illegal in NY.
I now use cut on contact fixed blade heads. Just my choice.
No real point to any of this other than I prefer to use equipment with the least chance of failure. There is enough that can go wrong out there. I also wouldn't use a safety harness that usually stops someone from hitting the ground.
Maybe the fella who used the Rage was also using a QAD Ultra-Rest that failed to drop, causing erratic arrow flight, changed point of impact, and didn't have near enough FOC? Either that, or he didn't manscape enough?
PAbowhunter - thanks for reminding me of why I seldom post on this site.
"There is enough that can go wrong out there. I also wouldn't use a safety harness that usually stops someone from hitting the ground. " Really??
Sorry to give you the third degree but why in the world wouldn't you NOT use a safety harness if you are in a tree?? Its not the fall that kills you its the stop at the bottom.
A lot of good designs out there and in my opinion you owe it to yourself, family, hunting buddies, some stranger who comes across you the and EMTs who may have to pull you out of the woods if you fall. Studies have shown most every bowhunter has fallen or had a near fall at least once in their career of hunting out of trees.
If one doesn't die from the fall, something gets seriously broken, maybe you lay there for days while the critters are working you over, as that's what critters do. (plenty of documented instances of that too).
With a good design and proper use your fall gets "arrested" you are able to get back on stand and enjoy your hunt, maybe a lifetime of hunts afterwards..
Please rethink you position as whether you like it or not it affects all bowhunters and how the public perceives the sport.
Would you NOT, cripes spell chekar is as bad as some new broadheads...
What I don't understand is that guys use big cut mechs because of the extra blood letting however you read that most of the shot game are still making it as far as a fixed head. The furthest a deer ran on me with Slick Tricks was 100 yards so I guess I don't see the risk vs reward. The blood trail may have been a hair less then a Rage but I followed it with no problem and didn't have to get on my knees to locate blood. Another reason people use mechs is for field tip accuracy. Their are many fixed blades that fly just as well today. I just don't see the mech advantage?
Tonybear, my point was that I do use a very good rated harness that WILL work every time. Not probably will work, or usually work. Thanks for caring. Everyone should use a harness, all the time.
Tonybear, my point was that I do use a very good rated harness that WILL work every time. Not probably will work, or usually work. Thanks for caring. Everyone should use a harness, all the time.
Neat! I've got three deer in my years with other people's broad heads in them all were fixed heads and all were under the backbone. Amazing healing ability. I would say shot placement is by far the most important thing.
"I would say shot placement is by far the most important thing."
Yes, but it's easier to blame a broadhead you don't like than it is to learn where to shoot em and then acquire the skills to do so. Didn't we have thread about the (non)recovery of Bulls shot in the scapula a while back?
I see the advantage of a Spitfire 125 every time I shoot a Bull with one. I'd guess Elkman sees an advantage with his Rage heads as well. Tuning has never made my list. Shoot what you have confidence in; nobody really cares what's on the end of your arrow.
Nice bull. Rage has worked for me, and failed me. I use only fixed blade, solid broadheads now. Plenty of good ones to choose from.
It's all about WHERE you hit them, NOT WHAT you hit them with. Shot execution, selection, and a stone killer's ability to get within "archery" range...
I like it when people say they saw an arrow with a certain type of broadhead bounce off the side of a deer...Lol that just cracks me up cause even a field point will penetrate...
RAGE threads never disappoint!!!!!!!!!! :)
Just a couple pics of a Montec found in a dead mule deer doe. Note the bone growing through the vented blades.
That's a cool find. A sad one, but cool. (Doesn't look much like an expandable either... ;-))
"I like it when people say they saw an arrow with a certain type of broadhead bounce off the side of a deer...Lol that just cracks me up cause even a field point will penetrate..."
THIS Rage bounced off a whitetail that my friend shot in the ribcage at close range with a 70# bow with a 29" DL. He killed it the next evening with a Thunderhead, so he had undeniable proof of where the Rage had impacted.
I normally stay out of these debates, but I can't resist.
We had a camp member that hit a buck high with a muzzleloader and it got away. It was killed several weeks later with a bullet lodged in the spine.
3rd degree thanks for the clarification on the harness.
When does a mechanical fail or disappoint??
1) If it doesn't open 2) If it opens BEFORE it gets to the intended target. 3) It bounces off, or has poor penetration
I have encountered both 1 & 2. Friends have encountered #3
Won't use mechanicals ever again.
id like to see the spine picture i find it odd to enter into the spin without some damage to nerves !!
2" rage is a terrible choice for elk, maybe the rage SS or hypo +p if you have to use a rage. Save your rages for bears!
Yeah their just horrible...
Hopefully, crickets start to chirp now...
"An airplane has hundreds of thousands of mechanical parts, sensors and switches that are made by companies that were the lowest bidders."
Not to get off the Rage bash fest but if a company isn't a certified vendor that has met all the required aerospace quality/delivery criteria, they don't even get to bid the job.
Please continue.
Low bid doesn't mean low quality.
Yes, please continue...
True about low bid doesn't equal low quality and understand certified vendors....my comment was more tongue and cheek. However, parts made my certified vendors, low bidders, high bidders, etc. Doesn't mean they don't ever fail. Point is we rely on mechanical things every day. Guys will argue all day about mechanical heads as they shoot drop away rests and mechanical release aids.
Carry on:)
I see your point, but failure rates are not equal ;)
Wapiti, thats anecdotal evidence a larger sample size is required. A suicide bomber doesn't always blow up, but I'm not gonna volunteer.
10 days and only 86 posts, rage haters must be out hunting.
I'm certainly no expert, but I think ELKMAN trumps 90% of your arguments.
A rage head be deadly, might even get you an animal you gut shoot. I tend to find the few animals I have gut shot. One of my reasons for not using an expandable is their failure rate on good hits. The failure rate of a quality fixed blade head is very low on good hits. I know of too many good hunters that have lost animals to expandable when they had confirmation of a good hit. I want no excuses if and when I make the shot.
Why do you think you need an expandable??
1) Because they fly just like field points. Really?? Have you sacrificed a few heads to be sure? Only a field point flies just like a field point in my experience.
2) In case I make a bad shot, it will leave a good blood trail. I have seen too many cases where this just isn't true.
3) They leave a really good blood trail. Yeah so does a fixed head, some folks are just lousy trackers.
4) They are a lot cheaper-no wait, I mean 3X the price!!
This Rage hater hasn't been out in the field cause of the constant rain.,,,
If you've ever had to buy parts for your airplane you know that everything has to be certified and approved even if it is the cheapest. And "cheapest" or "low bidder" is a relative term. There is no such thing as cheap airplane parts due to the testing and certification process.
No doubt many animals fell to a sharp rock and many hunters no doubt had very good luck with them. That doesn't mean in the modern era of solid one piece coc heads, that using a sharpened rock is wise.
I only shoot traditional mechanicals.
Crazy thing is all this talk about Rages has really got me wanting to try a hypo on deer...but they're just so darn expensive!
Ohio, sounds like a lot of assumptions there. Since you are talking about sample size, 3 people who shot elk with rage heads does not constitute a large sample size. But if you want to use that...of the 3 elk shot, 2 elk were killed with less than perfect shots(since we are using assumptions, I'll assume that the third was also a bad shot as well or just bad tracking).
Here are a few things that some can take from your examples if they are so inclined...1) people need to shoot better or practice more with shot selection, 2)Rage heads worked as advertised, putting 2 down with marginal shots, 3) anyone can skew numbers, hell if you talked to Elkman alone you would be at a 75% kill rate with Rage heads with a sample size of 4.
Not sure why some get their panties in a bunch over what others do. If you don't like mechanicals, then don't use them. I'm actually a fixed blade guy myself and have used mechanicals (including Rage) with success. A guy pulls a rage out of an elk and the haters jump on the bandwagon every time. Enough elk have been lost to fixed heads and bad shot selection.
"Enough elk have been lost to fixed heads and bad shot selection."
This is true. I know of three this year, two were with Slick Tricks. That DOES NOT mean that ST's are bad broadheads, it just means the arrow could've been put somewhere other than solid shoulder, that's all.
Tobywon, I couldn't have said it better myself. I'm a fixed blade guy for elk too, at present time. But, I have killed two bulls with a RAGE three blade. Range 35 and 42 yds. Both bulls fell inside 100 yards. I MUST be one hell of a shot to be able to do that with such a crappy broad head. Yes, Ohiohunter, I realize that if I were a better hunter I could have shot them at closer range. But, the opportunity was there, so I took it. I forgot, I was wearing Sitka GEAR and I celebrated with a cold Dr. Pepper from my YETI cooler. Ohiohunter, I enjoy reading your arguments that you have with other people. I didn't mean to light your fuse toward me. I'm enjoying your Vall hunt stories too.
I forgot this too............ IT'S STILL HARD TO ARGUE WITH ELKMAN!!! Make that he trumps 95% of your arguments..
Rage Hypodermic put this fella down in about 10 seconds.
" Ever seen a deer run across the road w/ an arrow hanging out of its hind quarter?"
You like talking about bad shots and blaming the head I take it. No need debating this issue with you any further when examples like this are used and meant to be taken seriously.
check out all the threads on "lost my bull to a Slick Trick" or "another Thunderhead failure" or " blades broke on VAP again, lost my deer"
oh wait ... those threads really don't exist ... its always mechanicals and Rage that fail
FYI there is a reason
Congrats Stretch that is one fine bull!
I'm not bailing on you bud, I just don't find it worthwhile to waste my time any further with any of the crazy examples that you use. You assume that a majority of guys using mechanical heads are shooting at any part of an animal is absurd. I don't mind healthy debate but you go beyond logical discussion and have a mindset of what is true without actual proven fact. You used an example with an arrow sticking out of a hindquarter of a deer and don't even know what type of head it was. I already mentioned im a fixed head guy so I don't need to provide you with any examples of anything.
Legal disclaimer, I shoot fixed blades. That said, why is your survey group shooting elk in the neck. Maybe they should start over with the basics. How far was the shot, that does play into penetration. The neck of any animal is pretty much muscle and bone. Not the best place to put an arrow.
I don't shoot Rage but I do shoot steelheads. Here's a pix of my elks heart from a frontal shot from this season.
Here's one more.
Never know a guy that has seen so many failed exp head shots. Above I read about a deer running across a road with arrow in it. What kind of exp head was use on that shot?
look, its really a basic physics
big cuts mean more energy used light arrows loses energy faster little thin blade break easier than big thick ones
I could sharpen a teaspoon, tie to the end of an arrow, kill 10 of 10 deer with it ..... that doesn't make it a good choice does it ?
When shots go good - just about any broadhead works
When shots go bad - then that is when broadheads matter
period
its legal to use old Puckett's ..... I don't think anyone would say its a good idea would they? and many a deer got killed with them
Depends on the bad shot I guess, they're not all the same.
Ohiohunter, My reason for switching to fixed. I made a poor shot on the third elk I shot. It was about 3" to far to the right. The arrow went into his shoulder about 4"deep. I was stupid for trying to make a perfect heart shot. Hell, the lungs are the size of my truck window. Kills them just as quick if you let the air out. POOR SHOT PLACEMENT. So after reading all you guy arguing about it, I switched to a slick trick hoping if I hit the shoulder again I may get enough penetration to put him down. One BIG problem though, I didn't get the opportunity this year. I struck out. BTW the bull at 42yds. was a complete pass through. The arrow in the second bull at 35yds. buried almost to the knock. He was quartering away. Hit the shoulder on the far side. Don't hate me, but Saturday am I will be sitting in my deer stand in Texas with a Rage Hypodermic on my arrow. I bet I've killed 50 deer with Rage heads.
Here's what little I know.... I've learned to shoot my bow quite well over the past couple years and I sure love incredibly obvious and short blood trails on anaimals like brown bear...
I think I'll just keep using what I have confidence in.
20+ years and nothing here has changed...
To read this thread you'd think that the broadhead is the only thing that matters. Things like arrow weight, arrow flight, and shot placement have nothing to do with the outcome.
Some window lickers think even the head doesn't matter - it's "really a basic physics"...
OK OK OK I'll admit it. This year I thought I made a perfect shot on a stud of a bull and I lost him...with Steel Force Phatheads.
Thought I honestly made a perfect shot arrow was going to hit the "crease" on the front shoulder...I lost sight of the arrow with about 3 feet to go. (43 yard shot) The bull was standing on a beaver dam and there was some real light brush about half way up his body.
I bloodtrailed him for over 400 yards and that took over half a day. The entire thing was hands and knees. I could have made the whole blood trail with less than a 1/2 cup of blood. 200 yards in I found my arrow, 3" snapped off. Sounds like a shoulder hit, but I SWEAR when the arrow hit it was the sound of arrow eating ribs. I know the sound of a arrow on heavy bone and there was no thwack. COC broadhead 0.80 thick stainless blade, and shaving shaving sharp. Thought everything went right, obviously it didn't. Hurts like heck.
Question (rhetorical) to you all - should I blame the broadhead?
I've never shot a Rage, but the new ones are a far cry from what the first ones were.
Have you Rage guys ever tried the T-3 head from G-5? I've used them in favor of the Rage head because the blades are thicker and the head is one solid piece. You can resharpen it or the blades slide out and are replaced in seconds. Much easier than Rage. They don't have the tiny allen screws. I use them because of the tons of hogs here in Texas. I'm going to try the Hypodermic this year.
APauls- YES! ALWAYS blame the broadhead! When something fails, you can't go wrong blaming the head! ;-)
OOPS. I meant the T-3 works well on deer and hogs. The Texas deer I hunt are about 180-200 on the hoof. Central Texas deer are about 1/2 that. I have a Golden Retriever in the yard that is bigger.I don't hunt central Texas.
I'm not sure that Rage shooters are in the minority on here, but it's your story so tell it how you want to. Glad you're not open to change or considering other opinions. People like you are, thankfully in he minority. Keep up the good work stirring to pot. BTW, names not jack.
So do Rage heads suck or not?
Depends on who you talk to?
I use a gobbler guillotine for elk - bigger cut, thinner blades ....
I shot a buck a few years ago, high and forward. Broadhead went through the thick part of the shoulder blade, through the front of the lungs, and broke his off-side front leg bone in half! I only shoot 55#.
I used a Slick Trick. There is no way a mechanical head would penetrate that well or cause that much damage shooting a 55# bow. I doubt it would have even penetrated the shoulder blade.
I'm going to tell you about my experiences with a rocket steelhead.. I was shooting a Mathews switchback 68lbs 29 draw 410 gr arrow. The elk came and stood almost broadside at 54 yard. I gaped my 50 and 60 yard pins on his chest. the arrow hit just behind his right shoulder and hit the humerus on the left side shattering into little pieces. The arrow did not exit. But I'm sure if it didn't hit the humerus it would of.
I can not comment on Rage heads but can on steelheads. I also got a pass thru on a 180 bear hit right behind the left hind quarter. The arrow exit in front of the right front shoulder. This year I shot my elk a only 11 yds frontal, arrow looked like it made it to the fletches. I never found that arrow even after looking for it. ???
A whitetail doe I shot 2 or 3 years ago I shot at 22 yds frontal. Arrow disappeared into it's chest. That was not a fun field dressing job.
I don't think all mech heads are the same. But the rocket steelhead is one mech head I have great confidence in and would take it over most if not a mech heads or fixed.
We all know that any head can be stopped by a shoulder hit.
Ed
Blades not deployed yet people stand behind them. Suddenly you realize how a Muslim from Kenya got elected president of the US.
Teeton, there are a few mechs that have surprised me. Steelheads are one of them, grim reapers are the other. I've heard far more positive stories about these than any other mechanical. I don't know why, perhaps someone with them in hand can shed some light onto why they SEEM to outperform their competitors.
I also think a lot of rage competition gets overshadowed by rage's overwhelming advertisements and paid celebrities, its practically brain washing!
I have been shooting rage since they came out...and have probably killed 30 or so animals with them(mainly deer)...all pass through's but 2...a bear a few years ago and a buck I killed last year...I shot a bowtech allegiance 60 pounds with 400ish grain arrow setup.
I've shot many angles and different yardages, and have not had any issues with them. I did lose a doe once because of a bad shot on my part. I don't shoot them because of the celebrity endorsements or because of tuning issues...I shoot them because they have done great for me.
I shot muzzy before rage and lost a deer with them as well...once again because of poor shot...not the head. I'm sure I will catch heck but I don't care...I read these rage threads and wonder why I have had great results with them and most dont...fire away
I used them once and it worked great on a doe but I just couldn't get past them opening up every time I bumped a twig with them. I'm done with mechs after that. I am more than happy with the blood trails with my Slick Tricks and never have to worry about them opening up. I'm also going to try out my VPAs. Plenty of great fixed heads out there. My cousin has never lost a deer to his Spit fires and he swears by them but they are just not for me. I wouldn't bash someone for using them I just think one day their will be a failure and a lost animal. I examined one deer that a buddy shot and the head entered through the rib and shot straight up to the spine. Sometimes bigger blades are not always better.
Huntem, maybe b/c you're in the elk section?
Spike, I had shot a nice buck (176") with a spitfire, the original pro series w/ the chisel point and got a half and half on him. I had already shot him w/ a thunderhead 85 and he was dead on his feet, I just wanted to check performance which I wasn't impressed. The 85 zipped through him so fast he didn't know what happened, he was maybe 10yds. Anyway the spitfire was dead square in the lungs, I will admit it was early in my days and the arrow weight was probably 350ish?? No idea really to be honest. I had heard the coc spitfires got better penetration, who knows.
I'm all for blood, gore and carnage which explains my affinity for barnes. From my bow I like the cards stacked in my favor and I know when I hit the vitals I am certain my bh will traveling w/ blades exposed, sharp blades too!
Ohio hunter I knew exactly which "section" I was in when I posted...which is why I said (mostly deer) in my post.
It doesn't seem to matter which section or which game is in question rage always gets talked down and I just wanted to put my experience with them out there..I just thought I would throw in my two cents which no one cares about anyway...so it really don't matter much
I get it, and I'm less against rage on lighter skinned animals. With what little experience I have I do know set ups do not always translate well from deer to elk. I've seen it, heck I've done it, but actually kind of glad I didn't connect on an elk during that first trip.. it would've been a heart breaker.
Despite my dislike, I also realize rage's design has improved. But again I'll stick w/ the more sure thing, besides I love telling guys my fixed heads hit where my fp's do ;) For some reason that's a near impossible feat for some.
Alert the media. Hell has just frozen over!!
Had my muzzy tipped arrow bounce off a shoulder at 30 yards this year.... my fault not the broadhead
Isn't Muzzy now owned by Rage? No wonder it bounced off the shoulder ha!
Man, has this thread gotten some legs! I can't believe it's still active.
From: ohiohunter Date: 28-Sep-16
I get it, and I'm less against rage on lighter skinned animals.
Ohio- you must have missed the pic of Nick's Musk Ox above. If a BH can get thru the hide and hair of a musk ox, I doubt an elk hide would be an issue! ;-)
Rutnut, Then the deer I shot must've been made of armor. 1st time I'll blame the bh, there won't be a second, there are just way too many better choices. Good luck hunting with your rages, not my tag, not my conscience, not my sleep.
btw nutrut, I never said a rage cannot penetrate an elk. Never crossed my keyboard. But keep making things up as you go, there seem to be quite a few politicians here who only hear what they can squeeze into their agenda and little "I told you so" comments ;)
PS I hate muzzy's too! Either they suck or people who shoot them are full of it. I can't count the number of "good" hits by muzzies resulted in lost deer. Less elk fall in this category, but I know considerably less elk hunters.
Shot placement, shot placement, shot placement! Period! We lose equally as many bulls all the time with fixed blades as we do with modern mechanicals. We lost a bull this year stuck with a Slick Trick high shoulder and evidently hit the big bone and never penetrated. Had his shot been just a little bit better would have made the difference. It is a game of inches.
There should be a separate thread category for Rages, so we could just go there every time we want a Rage debate fix.
Spike78 said "Isn't Muzzy now owned by Rage? No wonder it bounced off the shoulder ha!"
I knew it wasn't my fault! Ha throwing them all away if true!
Quit shooting Elk at 50 yards and the problem pretty much goes away.
People don't seem to grasp the reality that confidence and skill are two different things.
With very little work just about any bow can be tuned to shoot any fixed blade head in today's world. Why would one even consider adding in something that has the proven ability to under or not perform? What reasoning do you all use to justify that even the smallest percentage that it might be a less than optimal choice makes it ok to use?
Elk, who's data do you use to support the notion that a mechanical head will underperform? Personally, I use my own experiences, and that data is clear; spitfires outperform every fixed head I've ever shot into a bull. They penetrate better, leave more blood, and bulls hit the ground faster. Noticeably so. I have never had a failure nor "poor performance". They just work and they work damn well, for me. Your experiences may be different.
WB-If something is mechaical it COULD fail correct? If I give you a plain old ruler or a ruler that has a hinge put in the middle of it which would likely not perform or underperform sooner? That's what I'm saying. If it has moving (mechanical) parts it is likely to not perform as well or fail sooner than a comparable counterpart. IMO logic just dictates this.
So you are saying that a Spitfire will penetrate better than fixed blade heads??? Again logic and math says that isn't going to happen.
Also you don't archery hunt Idaho then. I would venture there is a reason that an entire state says that expandable broadheads aren't legal.
Another interesting thing to watch is the Primos videos....How many pass through's do the Rage boys get? Yep, and I'm 100% on solidly passing through the width of an elk on every one of mine.
I'm not going to engage in this little battle of mech vs. fixed. I'm not going to change anyone's mind. However I do know that it is a choice to shoot one versus the other and I want to be 100% sure that if I do make an errant shot I've stacked the odds the best in my favor.
Best of luck to you.
If it is NOT mechanical it COULD fail. Welds can break, soft material, poor design, etc. Since both can fail, it's a matter of which one is more likely to fail. That can only be done by comparing two specific heads and not by generalizing.
Rocket Steelheads have out penetrated fixed blades in some different tests I've seen despite the "logic and math" to the contrary.
My truck could fail, but 380,000 miles later it's headed to Wyoming tomorrow and I have no concerns.
Regarding the penetration, I've seen it with the Bulls I've shot with the Spitfires. They out penetrated Slick Trick, Muzzy, Wasp, Rocket, Satellite, Rocky Mt, Savora, and some I've forgotten. You see it enough times you discount the Internet chatter and use what works. And again, that's just what I see, from the Bulls I've shot.
Good for you bob, keep up the good work. Thank god you don't shoot rages.
Purdue, he didn't say a fixed blade can't fail. To think anyone is an absolutist on such a topic is foolish. I've yet to see a test worthy of being significant, and none of them involved rockets let alone the steelhead. Aren't they discontinued?
If I was single and didn't have to answer to my wife I would have built a force/penetration machine years ago. Same concept as the force/draw we built at G. E. Thompson slides, load cell, and X/Y chart recorder. Then you'd have data for point design, blade angles, etc.
Ohiohunter, I didn't say that he did.
I have seen tests worthy of being significant. Rocket steelheads are still available, but even if they were not, the tests show that a propperly designed mechanical can out penetrate a fixed head of similar design.
Purdue: "If it is NOT mechanical it COULD fail" looks to me you did, not to mention the emphasis on a few key words. Granted a lot tones and inflections are lost in text, but you did a pretty good job of conveying your point.
Similar design? I haven't seen any 2.5" 3 or 2 blade fixed bh yet. Also some of the mechanicals have little to no advantage in cutting diameter, if it isn't for the large cut where are the advantages? About the only reason I can see would be potential cross winds, say for example antelope hunting? From what I've seen of them they are so light skinned stiff vanes are capable of some heavy damage.
I'm sure Levi's 101yd elk shot was w/ a mech. There is also a guy in NM who took a lope at 149yds, but obviously he's less popular than Morgan.
OMG, Muzzy's won't kill game! Please don't tell the 2 dozen deer hanging around here, the bear or the kudu, wildebeest, waterbuck, Impala, or zebras. I'd hate to see them leave. They add so much to the house. Sometimes it's better to be silent and thought a fool than to open one's mouth and prove it so. Just a thought.
Oh, what the hell.....
My $.02:
I can do the mathematical proof if anybody really wants me to, but let's assume, just for the sake of argument, that mechanicals function perfectly about 95% of the time.
And let's assume that Bowhunters function perfectly about 90% of the time, meaning that on 9 out of 10 hits, we're going to recover that animal either way because any legal head would close the deal, and on that last one, it could go either way.
And let's get real generous and suppose that a mechanical cuts a path twice as wide as a fixed-blade head and that by so doing, it DOUBLES the hunter's chances of recovery on one of those iffy hits. It's actually under 80%, but play along...
Anyway, what all of that means is that a big, aggressive mechanical could pull your fat out of the fire just about 5% of the time... but since they're only 95% reliable, they will also screw the pooch for you... just about 5% of the time.
Soyou can see why this is an endless debate - the people who say they will turn a good hit bad are probably correct just as often as the people who say that they can turn a bad hit good.
But the way I see it.... Compared to a very modest 1 1/8" fixed blade, a 2" mechanical only reaches out an extra 7/16".
If you make a bad shot, is making that shot less than 1/2 inch "less bad" going to help you?
Here's a thought. Imagine how much your 3D score would go up if you were shooting a 7/8" broadhead instead of a field point. How often do you expect that little bit of blade would get you that line-cutter that turns a 5 into an 8?
But here's the thing... A perfect-functioning mechanical can only help you when the shot was on the edge of disaster; a failure, on the other hand, can happen even when the shot went perfectly right.
So maybe what it really boils down to is that there are those who want to be able to rely upon their equipment to get them out of a jam, and those who rely upon themselves to keep out of a jam in the first place?? (It's OK - wearing the Nomex boxers today!)
"......if it isn't for the large cut where are the advantages?"
Those points you mentioned plus more forgiving of a bad release, torquing, trigger punching, cam lean, etc.
The large cut diameter and steep blade angle of most mechanicals can limit penetration. That's probably why Wapitibob likes his Spitfires over the others. To me an exit hole is more important than cut diameter.
Jackstephens, where did i say that? Please cut and paste it for me. I just don't like'm. I don't like fat chicks either..whoa!
I'm not sure why you have a hard on for me, I'm not that good looking. But surely we could take up our differences in PM if you'd like, you're really gumming up all this fun.
Long thread. Ohiohunter, yikes....
I shot a black bear in Alaska with a muzzy ( this was before mechanical blades were around) and it had a 30 06 slug in its hip. I've also made poor shots on deer with fixed blade heads and did not find them, presumably they survived. I've also shot an elk with a rage hypodermic and it ran 50 yards and fell over. It's all shot placement folks. To me a mechanical head flies much better than a fixed blade. To me, fixed blades are harder to tune, but penetrate better on marginal shots ( they better because they're less accurate)in my opinion. The choice is yours.
Flight issues with fixed blades are an alignment and broadhead choice issue. As I said earlier you need to sacrifice a few , shoot them and that is the only real test of how they fly compared to target tips. Don't test them on a live animal in the field to find out or trust the testimonies from sales ads or so called "experts". Shoot them yourself. You owe it to the game you pursue and the bowhunting community you are in.
Ohiohunter:"**Yes elkman has had success w/ rage, but bear in mind the energy of his set up (if I recall correctly) is in the upper ~1-2% range. Basically has the wingspan of a cali condor. I've also not heard him contribute his success to rage, he just happens to have bad bh taste."
My current Elk set up is: Spyder Turbo. 69 pounds- 28 inch draw- ACC-349 with the 50 grain brass HP inserts for a total weight of 431 grains and around 15-16% FOC. With my tune and tweaking I am pushing that around 290 fps. Also I shoot the 1-1/2" on Elk, always have. I have never been a proponent of large diameter heads of any kind on Elk. PS: I'm 5'-10" and 160... Not quite the beast you have imagined! LOL! (And my taste is impeccable.)
"So do Rage heads suck or not?" -tradmt
No...Rage heads do not suck. They only suck when being shot at animals with names (especially lions), and by bowhunters wearing anything with an UnderArmor logo. Other than that, Rages are great.
(1 penny + 1 penny = my $0.02)
Well, I feel like I was just invited out the back door to settle this. I have shot the Spitfire and Hypodermic heads. Took a deer with the NAP and 2 with the Rage. All three deer are dead, so the heads worked. Two of the 3 had longer than average tracking jobs but they did not fail. After the last harvest, I went back to Muzzy. The next deer had a longer than average tracking job. The head did not fail. I choose to use a fixed heads because that it what I prefer. I will never badmouth a head or put down a group of fellow hunters because they choose to shoot a head that I don't. And, yes, you did put down Muzzy shooters when you said they are full of it. I have a collection of 30+ types of heads that I've shot over the years. I base my choice of that, not what my friends cousins neighbor says didn't work for him. Just one question for you Ohiohunter, have you ever shot a mechanical head or hunted with one. What first hand experience are you basing your opinion on? I have taking enough of my time on this subject. Tomorrow is opening day, so I've got better things to do.
Then I have you crossed w/ someone else, another guy was pulling 30" maybe even 31", either way you are putting out higher than average energy IMO. That is some nice speed behind a good weighted arrow.
"If it is NOT mechanical it COULD fail. Welds can break, soft material, poor design, etc. Since both can fail, it's a matter of which one is more likely to fail. That can only be done by comparing two specific heads and not by generalizing. Rocket Steelheads have out penetrated fixed blades in some different tests I've seen despite the "logic and math" to the contrary."
Yes Purdue you are correct. I am not talking about Welds, soft material, etc. I/we are talking about what I conisider "High End" broadheads. Rage users/media would lead you to believe they are at the top of if not the best of mechanicals. Slick Trick are known to be at the top of the fixed blade head design. I'm comparing those heads and heads of similar "quality".
I'm also not tearing down the "quality" of the head, I'm just regarding the possible loss of performance due to the nature of those being mechanical.
stephens, yes I have, I do believe my experience is posted in this thread or another recent one. Spitfire and rage, both less then average performance of any fixed I've shot. Good luck afield.
One known muzzy hunter has a pretty solid wall of whitetails, not some avg joe newb weekend warrior type. He had lost a "perfect" shot deer (based on his talk would've been one of his biggest), I know the subjectiveness of the claim, but its certainly not the first time I've heard this story from different people. I really just don't like muzzy, and the talk just helps me support my decision.
So now all Muzzys are crap???!!! LMBO!!!!!!!!!!!! :)
And all mechanicals are crap! I just chuckle when I see generalizations like that.
Plenty of guys out there are getting great results with mechanicals. But it sounds like some are indeed getting less than optimal results. But why criticize those that are getting great results???!!! I'll never understand it.
Reminds me of Lou Gehrig. He used a 41 oz bat for most of his career. The avg MLB bat used is about 32 oz. Most players would probably experience LESS than optimal results with a 40+ oz bat. But it worked pretty darn well for Gehrig! ;-)
Ummm no one has said anything of the sort. Some people's perceptions are so distorted its unreal. Is this what Killary supporters experience?
From: LBshooter Date: 16-Sep-16
When will people learn. There have more and more animals lost/ injured because of a well marketed BH. Shame on the guys who use it, and shame on the tv hunters who whore themselves out to promote it. It's mechanical and just a matter of time when it fails.
ALL BROADHEADS MATTER!!!!!
LOL!
Scar.
You got some good penetration there, Rut....
Ohio, ur just bout nailin the distorted thing....
"People don't seem to grasp the reality that confidence and skill are two different things"
That should be nominated for quote of the year.
I personally have had about as many failures of fixed BH's as MBH's, and I have shot ~2x more animals with mechancials than fixed (~70 vs. ~30). The interesting thing is the failures for both have generally been materials/hardening related and not one can be isolated to the actuation aspect of MBH's.
It is interesting how theory contrived by folks who lack experience differs from reality....
I never read all mechanicals are crap.
I don't like muzzy's, I don't like PSE bows, and I don't like olives.. oh my. Did I mention I don't like fat chicks either?
Gotta love this monthly topic.
Matt, can you elaborate on your fixed blade failures?
Mechs are better for deer and black bears, fixed are better for elk and moose. I've had fixed fail me on several occasions, the failure is they fail to hit where I was aiming due to poor form, excitement and mild hypothermia, years ago I switched to a quality mech for deer, my taxidermist was pleased!
I used a 1-3/4" concoction on my first Bull this year, and found my arrow 30 yards on the other side of where he was standing buried 2 inches in the dirt. Bull went down in sight... (30 yards broadside)
My buddy shoots 70 pounds at a 26" draw length (Spyder Turbo) and he pushed 2 arrows clean through this bull at 30-35 yards, and he was using the 2 inch Chisel tips. It's all in shooting a PERFECTLY tuned set up, and taking GOOD QUALITY "archery" shots. The Bull went about 15 yards after the initial shot and began to wobble, he decided to shoot him again for good measure. We never found the second arrow and the first one was hard to locate. Again bull crashed IN SIGHT, like most of ours do... JS
Sounds to me like Elkman has made a plausible case with supporting evidence, similar to someone else on a different thread about arrow setups.
"Matt, can you elaborate on your fixed blade failures?"
Bent ferrules (like 35-40 degrees bent) on 2 Magnus Stinger 4 blades. The explanation was that the wrong grade of aluminum was used for a batch.
I had issue with some Vortex 125 gr. steels where some ferrules were over-hardened and literally shattered when I hit a rock after a passthrough. After the fact, you could hear the difference in pitch between the correctly harded ferrules and the overharded ferrules side by side on a granite countertop.
The only buck I ever shot with a Rage died in seconds and left a blood trail like an overturned paint can. The arrow audibly 'thunked' on the opposite rib and did not even stick. I was not impressed with penetration so I probably will not be using them again.
That sucks, I wouldn't call the vortex a failure.. a rock is a rock. Thick blades are good, but at the cost of your foundation (ferrule: alum vs steel) I don't know about that.
No one is discrediting Elkman, and to illustrate not all users yield the same results there is a Facebook post of a guy w/ 2 arrows in a bull, judging by the gash they were an mechanical of some sort and neither passed through, clean clear body shots. Whats even worse he shot it on opposite sides and the opp arrow is pushing the skin up like a broken rib, straight out and did punch through. though I can't say a fixed bh would've done different, not all bh are created equal.
I told y'all last week ELKMAN was hard to argue with. Now he further backed it up while I was out of town deer hunting this weekend. I also told y'all I would have a Hypodermic on the end of my arrow in my deer stand Saturday am. Apparently no failure. 154" ten point down Saturday by 7:30 am. Blood trail Ray Charles could follow. Recovered in less than 50 yards
After reading too much of this thread, I guess I could shoot a mechanical head if I had problems following less than great blood trails or had poor broadhead flight. But if I did it would not be a rage.
I've never shot a mechanical except at turkeys, but this thread now has me questioning the effectiveness of Muzzys on all the animals I've killed with them over the past 30 years. Just got lucky, I guess....
;-)
Carry on, fellas!
I'm against mechanicals for multiple reasons. That's my choice. THAT said, I've got an open mind. I'd like to take a couple slick tricks and a couple rage and test them. Cost aside maybe we would all learn something.
Did I mention I don't like muzzys?
OK can I hear the story about the above xray?
Ed
The hunter fell off of a 6ft edge and fell on his bow. The other Xray shows the bh didn't enter the bone, but it certainly sliced up some tendons.
Ouch! Could've gone without seeing that today. How much KE do think the 6 foot fall put on that arrow, and how much more would it have needed to get a pass through? ;)
If your going test them, you need to do it in the field. That is the only one that counts. Everything else is just "fluff" for the brain...
I'm not sure which had more KE, the arrow or the hand?
Good thing it wasn't a Rage, it would have hit arteries and might have loped his hand off! LOL
If it was a rage I doubt he'd even need stitches.
If it was an exodus it would've been a pass thru.
ohiohunter, are you by chance related to TBM? One more post and we push this beast over 200! Think of all the time wasted and brain cells killed on these Rage rants! WGAS!
Yet you continue to participate... interesting
I am going to need to know what that guys FOC was in order to make a judgment call on that penetration... Lets get all the facts....
It's pouring down rain. Nothing better to do. Paint's all dry. ;)
If anyone wants to send some failed heads I can add them to the Bowhunter Eds instructor collection.
The shoulder blades where shot though with a 2 blade solid fixed and 4 blade replaceable fixed.
Strings, lets assume the arrow broke before impact. This would accelerate the FOC in a very steep linear fashion resulting in what one would call SUPREME FOC or SFOC. Once SFOC is acheived the shaft becomes so stiff it makes Ron Jeremy jealous. Once penetration begins the short, though ample, shaft effortlessly follows the wound channel with virtually no oscillation.
But as you can see by the example penetration was hindered by the SFOC b/c upon achieving such a divine level of FOC velocity suffered dearly. This unfortunate arrow once held peak performance status, but he had fallen to a far less efficient position on the bell curve. This is how the little arrow learned about the law of conservation. The end.
Rage extreme COC worked just fine for me - that's the entrance wound under my arrows.
Inshart, now that's what Im talkin about!
Just look at that huge A$$ hole that thing made!
The Extreme may have even saved you on a hit that high. Did you clean her for pics? Was there much of a blood trail? Or did she just crash?
Elkman, yes the 2" hole definitely saved my A$$. Blood was almost ALL internal when I opened her up.
She ran straight down hill about 100 yards or so with very, very little blood trail. The steep down hill run let us follow her tracks more than the blood.
As you can see from the pic the woods were pretty open in this area, so I could see her from about 75 yards away.
Oh, and we looked for about 20 minutes for my arrow - never did find it.
Like I've said before, ELKMAN is hard to argue with on this one.
Why not use a head like a Ramcat? Big 3 blade cut. Blades don't deploy like a mechanical. And they fly amazing?
Damn tonybear,i must be old. Hell I have used nearly everyone of the broadheads.....lmao
Broke a rib going in and another going out.
This keeps going, I may have to go out and buy some new Hypodermics. Gave all my old ones to my son.
Last savage the one on the upper left too???
I still have my Zwickeys that were given to me in 1973 by the man himself.
Damn straight!!!! Lol. 5th grade,,cavemen using bows was our topic...I told the teacher ..I'll make a bow and arrows,she scoffed,and said ok you'll get an a for it,if it's of the period... well,well well,, welcome to Sharpsburg md sister..spent a week,every hour working Osage bow..and homemade arrows,feathers wrapped tightly with thread..the head,a sandstone rock ground out on a concrete block!!!to a fantastic point( There ya go lol)no money for glue..Fri came,i pulled bow out of coat closet,uuuu,ahhhhh ,then one of the best things I'd ever heard come out of a teachers mouth...would you like to show everyone is it shoots!!!! Boom... fantastic!!! Yes mam I replied...shoot towards to blackboard she sounded as all my snickering where moved to the rear of the classroom,beside me.. really I said??so I sent that arrow straight thru the blackboard into the closet of the adjoining class,her mouth fell open as she turned to run next door to see if I whacked a 3rd grader..I yelled do I get an A???yes she said cring as she left... fantastic!!!
last savage, I needed that. Thanks! lol!
Priceless! Do you still have it? post it up if you do
That's a giggle last savage
Heck no guys,i don't have that bow,,but the story will never be forgotten by me,the traumatized teacher or 20 other kids that thought"it was cool man". Lol
Here's a hypo +P pic from an Iowa doe. I was impressed.
is this still an elk thread?
I was a fixed only guy until I opened my mind to investigate and test different heads. Lots of great options! I don't knock mechanicals any more! Love your broadhead, it's all you got:)
Sorry Ohio. I can remove it. It's the new +P rage created perhaps for larger game like elk etc. I liked the ulmer which was similar and thought to try the rage +P this week. OP can remove, just stating the new head worked as advertised with a smaller exit of right at 1.5". Would help with penetration on bigger game.
Carry on...:)
Not all bh's are created equal
I know which one I would choose, I would still try and shoot a fixed at elk and moose, but never at a deer, the blade angle on the first should scare most off, I shoot a snyper 2 blade which is much like they this one, the animals I've killed with them rarely make it out of sight, the poor blade angle might cause more pain as it doesn't slice through as easily, causing the animal to run further?
Carcus-I think the SS is same as the Hypo +P with thinner ferrule?
