1. So i have read numerous times about using duct tape for blisters as they form or start to develop. I'm curious how this actually works. Do you put raw tape on top of the blisters? I would think it would rip the "loose" skin off and make matters worse? Ultimately i tried the duct tape on top of some mole skin to assure all day adhesion. However, when i took the tape off later in the day, the skin below the duct tape was very agitated/wet. Fortunately, nothing really bad happened but i was hesitant to use it any further.
2. our elk sightings were VERY low. I'm not sure if this is a result of the herd numbers, bad timing, or bad hunting. I kind of think it is a mixture of the three? We had a great experience on the first day and had a bull respond to our calls only to turn back towards where he came from at about 70 yrds. He sensed something he did not like, I'm not sure if it was scent, movement or what, but he turned on a dime and left the area for good. Two days later we saw a small herd on a hill side, and they were never seen again. Based on the amount of ground we covered (approx. 60 miles), i would've expected to see fresh sign but there was none. I would expect to hear bulls bugling, but there were none. Maybe we were too early? maybe we were too loud in camp?
3. Is there a way to hunt elk if they are not being vocal? I would think if we saw them we could setup in a transition area and maybe get a shot (sort of like hunting deer) but we never saw a herd of elk more than once. This leaves me to believe we screwed it up a bit and maybe ran them out of the area? I don't think many other hunters were having success though either?
4. How much do you carry from camp on a daily basis. I felt i had too much but then i did seem to use most of it throughout the day. my pack was probably close to 15# daily.
5. How much is elk hunting weather dependent? Our host/guide mentioned the week before we arrived (9/5), elk were bugling everywhere all night long and then when we showed up it went dead because of the weather. We had highs range from 60 degrees to 30 degrees and lows from 40 degrees to 20 degrees. It was damn cold two of the days and the remainder were 50s/60s. I'm curious, why elk would bugle, then ultimately just stop bugling???
Thanks for your help, and you elk and mountain hunters just gained a ton more respect... I would like to leave a bowsite review but i don't know if i have enough experience elk hunting to do the review a true assessment or more of an emotional assessment. I am disappointed with the consultant as i believe we were deceived in some capacity.
My daypack is 14# and has everything I need; safety/hygiene/extras/kill kit/gps/etc.
Welcome to the wonderful world of elk hunting!! Sounds like you had a tough hunt...but are you bitten by the bug and ready to go back? I'm by no means an expert, I don't live in elk country, and I have yet to punch my tag on six archery elk hunts; but I have gained a lot of experience and have blown my share of chances. I'll weigh in on my experiences:
1. Ever since I've swapped to a system of a liner sock underneath a wool sock, I've never had any blisters. I carry moleskin with me and I've heard good things about Leukotape too. If I need to use it I'd just place it over the blister. I would drain the blister and treat it before I did that, but I'm by no means a medical expert and have been fortunate with regards to preventing blisters.
2. It was probably a combination of all three. First off, wind is VERY important. Elk are noisy, so I don't think they get too alarmed on noise on it's own. From a vision standpoint, I think they key in on movement. For example, if you make a noise but then stay still, elk may continue doing what they're doing. I've been caught in some fairly open situations but refrained from moving and wasn't busted by the elk. But if they smell you, you can forget about it. If you spend much time hunting with the wind at your back you can likely forget about seeing elk. I'm constantly checking and re-checking the wind while I hunt and if it's bad, I'm backing out and planning an alternative route.
I also think you need to slip through some of the thicker stuff to really look for sign. It's easy to walk a trail or a logging road but it's better to find a game trail going through the timber to assess whether elk have been using an area. Sign can be pretty sparse in the easy places to walk, but the second you get into some thicker spots you'll find elk and elk sign.
Assuming you covered 60 miles in a 6 day hunt, that's 10 miles a day. To me that sounds like a lot and you might be moving too fast and not hunting the country slow enough. It's obviously going to vary by location, but you might consider not covering so much ground but covering the ground that you cover slower.
What kind of country were you hunting? Was it thick or open and conducive to glassing?
3. Finding non-vocal elk can be like finding a needle in a haystack. Remember that for most of the day they're probably going to be in or near cover. The only way I've found to do it is to hunt the thicker stuff slow and hope you catch one going to or coming from their bedding areas. I probably bump five to ten elk for every one that I see first. Usually if the wind is right, you won't bump them out of the country. It's a difficult and a low percentage way to hunt, but that's about it. The other way to hunt is to try and find a wallow or a waterhole that's been used and sit it. Look for stirred up water, fresh tracks, or wet logs and vegetation to determine if the wallow has been used. Of course, to do this you have to find a wallow...
4. Fifteen pounds doesn't sound like too much for a day pack. If I'm purely hunting from camp knowing that I'll return, I am usually carrying the following (in addition to binoculars, rangefinder, wind detector, game calls):
- kill kit (knife, gamebags, zip ties, latex gloves) - paracord - small saw - extra knife - headlamp and flashlight - extra layer of clothing - rain gear (depending on forecast) - GPS - phone - spare battery and cables for phone, GPS, etc - toilet paper - license - water - camera - survival kit (firestarter, space blanket, etc) - decoy
I usually return to camp after the morning and then go out in the afternoon, so I don't pack any additional food. The country I hunt is too thick for glassing so I don't carry a spotting scope or tripod but do keep my binoculars on me. Things can definitely add up weight wise. 10-15# seems about as light as I'd be able to go.
5. I'm sure a lot of things drive their behavior, with weather being one of them. My experience tells me it's about impossible to know what gets them going or what shuts them up. You can't dwell on what the elk should or shouldn't be doing but instead figure out what they are doing. Often times, I've found you aren't able to figure it out.
Do you care to elaborate on how you felt deceived? Just curious. I've hunted some prime units with some great outfitters, and gone days without seeing elk or hearing a bugle. They are wild animals and, more often than not, don't follow a script. When I judge an outfitter it's based on how hard they work and how invested in my hunt they are, not necessarily on the game we saw or whether I killed or not. From a consultant perspective, I want honesty and the ones I've dealt with have been pretty realistic in establishing my expectations in my experience. I'd be curious to hear of your experience.
You were also a first time elk hunter. Remember the first time you kissed a girl - how much better did you get the next time?
You sound a lot like many Newfoundland Moose hunters who come back with a cow/or small bull but were expecting giant bulls to be around every corner. An unrealistic expectation.
You weren't deceived but were elk hunting. Until you are paying above $5k for a hunt what you experienced is pretty typical.
BTW I am assuming they had hunters in the weeks before? That never helps as others mentioned above.
If the outfitter you went with had a good reputation and very few, if any bad reports, then I think you probably are just bummed you had a rough week. We all have had those before.
As you now know, elk hunting is really hard work.
First of all bigeasygator's post is really good. I'll try not to repeat any of what he said, but he did a good job of covering all the bases.
1. I am more about blister prevention. If my boots/shoes create any uncomfortable spots while breaking them in, I don't use them. Sidehilling is something most guys don't do much while breaking in boots, but you might do hours of it a day while elk hunting and it will create blisters fast. I use only high quality, good condition socks when hunting. Blisters are usually a sock issue more than a boot issue. However, overly warm boots can create big blister problems as well. Remember, high friction, high moisture and high temperature and you will probably get a blister. I hunt in trail running shoes almost exclusively and up to this point have never had blister issues. When I did use boots, I got blisters. Duct tape works but I think a lot of guys wait too long to apply it. Put duct tape on when you have a hot spot. By the time you have a blister it is too late.
2. Probably all three. I really think elk are becoming more nocturnal and the heavy buglers are getting selected out. I have seen both in enough different areas to be fairly convinced. The calling experience you had is a classic hang-up. It happens all the time and you will get better. As soon as you make a call an elk now has something to look for-another elk. He will come only as close as he needs to to confirm that there is elk where he heard one. If he can see 100 yards out he will stop 100 yards away. If he has to come to 10 yards he will come to 10 yards. This is why calling setups are so important. I like to call from places like just over a hill, where the elk will be in range by the time he is able to confirm whether or not an elk is where it should be. Elk location is THE hardest part. To give you an example: I hunted a new area this year. I had no idea where elk actually were. According to my GPS I covered 15-25 miles per day when I was looking for elk and 4-8 per day when I was really into them. That sounds like a lot, but I found a lot of elk. I'm sure I passed a lot of elk too though. Something to add is I spike and bivy hunt most of the time. I like to camp at auditory view points. These are places where I can hear into multiple areas at night. I do a lot of my elk location at night when I get woken out of a sleep by a bugle. If you road hunt, bring a bike, cruise the roads at night and listen. Trying to do it in a car just doesn't work as well. The too loud in camp issue is possible. If you are in the backcountry, you are always hunting. Keep a low profile all the time. If you are roadside hunting, those elk can be pretty tolerant.
3. Bigeasygator covered this one pretty good. My only addition would be you probably need to watch the wind better or slow down and pay more attention if you are bumping 5-10 elk for every one you see.
4. I hunt the morning and the evening. The wind is never good midday where I hunt and I sit out usually 1/4 of the evenings because of bad wind. I go very light. I have my bow, a wind checker, GPS, SPOT, a rain jacket tied around my waist and 2 granola bars. That's it. I hydrate before and after so I don't bring water. I tend to think if I am getting really thirsty, I am moving too fast and I need to slow down.
5. I don't know how much of an effect weather has. It was super hot most of the time where I was and some days there was great action, other days very little. Then we had a cold front move in and it rained and snowed and everyone was thrilled that the rut was going to kick into high gear, but actually it seemed the opposite was true. Some of my worst days where during that cold front.
"You can't dwell on what the elk should or shouldn't be doing but instead figure out what they are doing"-Words of wisdom right there.
Elk hunting is really hard work. Luck plays a tremendous role as does hard work. OtcWill has a great saying,"Time kills". This is my mantra when I am starting to get discouraged. The key to elk hunting is to put yourself in areas with elk as long as possible and hope one makes a mistake. Often times, your hunt goes from terrible to epic in a matter of seconds. Don't get discouraged.
WRT your guide/ host-The unpredictability of elk never ceases to amaze me. I am almost to the point where whatever I think the elk will do, I'll do the opposite. They are wild animals that want to survive and they are good at what they do.
In response to some of the questions above:
but are you bitten by the bug and ready to go back? - I am definitely hooked and I'm ready to go back to give it another shot. I learned a lot of things on this hunt, and I have a lot of decisions to make for my next hunt. First and foremost, guided or not, and I'm leaning to unguided. I'm not sure the value is really there with a guided hunt.
but the second you get into some thicker spots you'll find elk and elk sign. - We hiked a lot of trails to easily get from one place to the next. We did slow down when we were in thicker areas specifically looking for new/fresh sign. There was a lot of sign in the area but nothing looked as if one day old or so. We found one fresh rub and a minimum amount of fresh (less than a day) droppings. A lot of the tracks seemed older as well, but that can be a little more tough to determine without snow.
What kind of country were you hunting? Was it thick or open and conducive to glassing? - It was actually both. We could sit at higher elevation and glass old burns, areas with a lot of deadfall, meadows, draws, etcetera. Then when we would move in, we could find the thicker areas as well with a lot of pines. That were dark areas that looked like it would hold animals. We did see a TON of mulie sign and a lot of nice mule deer as well. I feel like we did some things right because we had mulies over us and sometimes they were pretty darn close. Not sure if elk are like mule deer much but I would think if we were moving too fast, we would not have seen the mule deer either?
Do you care to elaborate on how you felt deceived? - This is what I'm still trying to figure out. At first, I felt this way, based on honesty with some original questions I had which later on found to be untrue. I think there were some details left out that should have been communicated upfront. If I knew some of those items prior to booking the hunt, I probably would have gone somewhere else. I do now know a lot more on what to ask for future hunts, so it was a learning lesson for me. I have reached out to others to do some fact checking as well, so before i know all the facts, I'm going to restrain myself a bit.
BTW I am assuming they had hunters in the weeks before? - there were not supposed to be any hunters before us or the week during our stay. Unfortunately, there were other hunters there our week as well, but not in our camp, just adjacent to us, but it is public ground.
He will come only as close as he needs to to confirm that there is elk where he heard one - Thinking back, i believe this may be very accurate!
Thank you for the responses!!! I feel better about the situation, although I'm still physically a little bit up, I'm ready to go again. Wish i could go for a longer amount of time, i think that would be VERY helpful...
I'll respond to the PMs shortly...
ben
You guys get a second time?
Pyrannah: I think unless he said you will be hunting private hunting ground and didn't it's tough to fault an outfitter unless it's a big thing like saying you can hunt stands and he didn't have stands to hunt.
I have had a hunt like yours where I left a little disappointed and thought the outfitter could have done a little more but once I got a few months away I realized I got what I paid for.
I would say if you are thinking about writing a negative review give yourself a few more weeks to make sure the sting of disappointment of not seeing many elk is not the reason.
Remember hindsight is always 20/20 and it's easy to question things after the fact. That being said, I've never really faulted a guide for making the wrong strategic or tactical decision while hunting as it's often a coin flip.
I'll add that I've been on guided hunts in country where I know there are elk and seen very few. One trip I laid eyes on three elk in a week of hunting. The other was a unit known to produce big bulls, but we had very little bugling and a week of hunting only produced one "opportunity," but I never even got a chance to draw back my bow. There is no such thing a slam dunk on a public land elk hunt!
I have been in areas that I have not seen elk in days and then all of a sudden you’re walking along and bam, they are right in front of you. Seeing them before they see you is quite nice. It doesn’t happen for me very often though. Many times I don’t see any elk at all and there is fresh elk sign right in front of me. I believe this is when they have seen me through the trees before I see them and they silently slip away. Being in the right place at the right time is what most would call luck and it does play an important role in an elk hunt.
The last thing that I would like to add, and this might not be for everyone, but I have never shot an elk and see very few elk when I take someone with me. Over the last 9-10 years, the 7 elk I have shot have all been when I am hunting solo. I believe this is because with only one person hunting, you avoid talking to another person, you have a smaller scent funnel and you make less noise walking. You do however give up the ability to have a caller call from behind you and so you might have to take a bit longer shots when they are presented to you. My shots have been from 18 to 75 yards with most of them being in the 50 to 75 yard range. Some may call this unethical shooting but I have recovered every elk I have ever shot at, the longer ones being my best shot placement. I started hunting solo and still prefer to hunt solo, but I had some experience with rifle hunting before I started bow hunting. I think if you feel comfortable in the woods by yourself or you have a good friend that likes to hunt, I would definitely get rid of the guide next season. I am not going to say you will do better but you won’t do any worse than this year. Remember, you can’t kill an elk if you’re not in the woods. The more time spent in the woods increases your chances at an elk.
