Vortex Broadheads
Do Carbon's Arrows Wear Out??
Equipment
Contributors to this thread:
John L. 28-Jul-06
white devil 28-Jul-06
Ole Coyote 28-Jul-06
Jeff McCormick 28-Jul-06
Trophy8 28-Jul-06
John L. 28-Jul-06
Bill in MI 29-Jul-06
r2t2 31-Jul-06
John L. 31-Jul-06
obsessed bowhunter 31-Jul-06
Beendare 31-Jul-06
Shaft2Long 31-Jul-06
x-man 31-Jul-06
straightarrow 31-Jul-06
x-man 31-Jul-06
Boomerdog in OK 01-Aug-06
Joehunter 01-Aug-06
John L. 01-Aug-06
kj 02-Aug-06
Red Wing 02-Aug-06
DonSchultz 02-Aug-06
Larv 02-Aug-06
Ziek 02-Aug-06
John L. 03-Aug-06
YeOldFart 03-Aug-06
Randy & Linda 06-Aug-06
JTV 16-Mar-18
oldgoat 16-Mar-18
midwest 16-Mar-18
hawkeye in PA 16-Mar-18
Genesis 16-Mar-18
Pat Lefemine 16-Mar-18
BOHUNTER09 16-Mar-18
Treeline 16-Mar-18
sticksender 16-Mar-18
Treeline 16-Mar-18
Shawn 16-Mar-18
Dooner 16-Mar-18
Charlie Rehor 16-Mar-18
ELKMAN 17-Mar-18
From: John L.
28-Jul-06
I've been shooting the same set (5 of them) of Beman ICS Camo Hunter 400 arrows for about 4 years. I mark each arrow so I can keep track of them. I've got one that just recently started to drift in all directions and will not hold track no matter what I try. Feathers are in good shape, no cracks, nocks good, inserts tight, tried different heads, etc.

My question is will the spine on carbons start to wear out after time?

Thanks....John

From: white devil
28-Jul-06
thats funny mine did the same thing after a while I just use those for small game now.and yes they were ics 400 hunters.

From: Ole Coyote
28-Jul-06
Tough question without see the arrow. Check the fletching to make sure a small section has not lifted off the arrow. It may no show when the arrow is not in flight but pulling gently at the edge will probably show it instantly. Another possibility is the nock may have been hit by another arrow, doa spin test and see what it looks like. I also shoot 400s' and after six years haven't seen any problems yet. I also used to roll graphite fly rods ( carbon fiber ) for a living and I have never seen a fly rod fatigue from use meaning bending to many times. I would say however if your shafts are showing a dull finish you might want to mike them to see if they are the same diamenter if not you may have worn of the outer layer just enough to change the spine and the arrow is now to weak for your set up. Personally I would just trash the arrow at about #10.00 my hand is worth more than that why take any chances. Stay well!

28-Jul-06
I have had that happen to me also and I just trash the arrow.Also sometimes when I've refletched a carbon several times they get beat up from the scraping off of the old fletching.Again they go in the trash.Like Coyote said,why take any chances?

From: Trophy8
28-Jul-06
In the past I have seen where the spine has been shot out....not sure if thats the best way to say it. Shot GT's that were grouping great, then over time they didn't....new arrows and everything was fine.

From: John L.
28-Jul-06
That's what I did with this one. However I'm more worried about the other 4. If one is going south on me, then the others might not be too far behind. Maybe it's a ICS 400 thing?? Maybe they have a 4-5 year life limit??

Anyonew else having ICS 400 issues like this??

John

From: Bill in MI
29-Jul-06
I shoot such tight groups that arrows only last about 3 months or so ;^)

Actually I lose as many as I break, and usualy I break them after I miss the target, put it 1/2 thru 5/8 ply, and glance off the chain link fence behind.

Bill in MI

From: r2t2
31-Jul-06
I saw another thread on this subject which generated a lot of opinions, the final answer "Yes". We need a good scientific study though.

RT

From: John L.
31-Jul-06
Seeing as how we're talking scientific....

I would speculate they behave differently in warm weather vs cold weather. I would think they would be more flexible in warm weather and stiffin up in cold weather.

I'm still waiting for some other ICS 400 users out there to post what their experiences are with used arrows.

31-Jul-06
I've had the smae arrows for 5-6 years. I don't seem to be having any trouble with them. I've seen them take some major abuse and still shoot good. I am also shooting ICS 400s. To me it would make sense that they would lose some of their spine characteristics after a few years and several thousands shots. i have wondered the very same thing. Just never did wonder it while I was near a computer to make a thread. OB

From: Beendare
31-Jul-06
I have some older ones that the finish has worn off and they leave carbon fibers on your hands. They still shoot good but I 86 them.

You can easily check carbons for spine by grabbing both ends and twisting.

From: Shaft2Long
31-Jul-06
According to experts, yes, you can shoot the spine out of your arrows.

I've had this happen to me with two different sets of Blackhawk vapors. The most recent of which was just last week.

I usually will shoot the same ones over and over. Great groups for about a year, year and a half, then they'll just start flying all over the place. I first thought there was some kind of shooting error I was commiting. When I couldn't get the problem figured out I switched to some new arrows and the groups immediately returned to normal.

From: x-man
31-Jul-06
Don't have any scientific proof, but I also believe that all arrows wear out when shot repeatedly into targets that are designed to stop them after only a few inches.

Aluminum seems to "work-harden", and carbon seems to loose spine consistancy after a while IMO.

31-Jul-06
I don't know about wearing out,but i know they can work on wearing your nerves out and with that being said thats the reason i went back to alum.X-MAN,I use to work in a alum factory and alum does get harder as time goes by,which i would think that it would be great for alum arrows as for as spine goes.

From: x-man
31-Jul-06
straightarrow,

Problem is, it never hardens evenly around or along the entire shaft, which creates more problems than I can name.

01-Aug-06
I am still shooting the same batch of ICS 400s. This is going on the fifth year. I check them often. If I see any visible surface wear (chips, flaking, cracks), the arrow gets tossed.

From: Joehunter
01-Aug-06
I hope not - I am still shooting some orginal beman ICS 340 shafts and some orginal Carbon express 300 shafts I bought I think around 96. Some have been refleched 4 or 5 times. I have not seen any changes. I tuned up the last of them for my upcoming pronghorn hunt. Good nocks, good flecth, good inserts, good tips, and the shafts I think will last along time. Check the inserts. They get beat up over time.

From: John L.
01-Aug-06
Another thought......

I've been flinging these things at 74 or 76lbs since day one. My draw is 29-1/2". Maybe the higher draw weight wears them quicker?? That would lead to me ask if the manufacture does long-term testing at the higher weights?

John

From: kj
02-Aug-06
I don't shoot Bemans anymore, but when I was, I found that after a while, they always seemed to break in about the same place...about 6 inches up from the point. My archery shop dealer said he noticed the same thing with Bemans. I attributed this to the arrow wearing out as that was how deep they embedded themselves into the target. Bemans were always too brittle for my liking so I tend to think they will show different wear attributes than other carbons. I know metal will fatigue from constant motion. I read something in the news paper recently that someone was testing a new product for jets to rid the problem of metal fatigue. I think it was a carbon componet of some sort. I really didn't pay too much attention to it, but did scan the article. If what I read was right, then fatigue is not a problem of carbon. I think ole coyote is right, they wear out and the spine changes. Mine always broke.

From: Red Wing
02-Aug-06
I believe they can and do wear out.

Carbon shafts are normally held together by epoxies and resins which can change over time. I dont think it's the carbon fiber as much as it is the epoxy that can crystalize and become brittle over time.

I am by no means an engineer. I do do know that I talked to a guy last year who manufactured carbon shafts and he said that they can change just by lying flat on a shelf for years. There is a specific term for it but I can recall what it was.

He flat out told me that he would not shoot a carbon shaft that was over 5 or 6 year old.

Joe

From: DonSchultz
02-Aug-06
More than 10 years ago, the small dia. Bemans lost spine over a surprisingly short time. I think the new woven fabric and wound designs are much more durable. I've got hunting arrows that are 4+ years old. They are shot hard only about a month in getting ready for the season.

From: Larv
02-Aug-06
I'm no expert but I've been told by a friend who is more knowledgable than I am that you can shoot the spine out of carbon arrows.......Larv

From: Ziek
02-Aug-06
Jeez guys! 4 or 5 years shooting the same arrow! Just go buy some new ones!

From: John L.
03-Aug-06
"Jeez guys! 4 or 5 years shooting the same arrow! Just go buy some new ones!"

If I'm reading you correctly.....if they're still good shooters after 4 or 5 years, what would be the reason to buy new ones? If the experienced consensus shows they are now consumable due to wearout after 4-5 years, then I agree, toss them and get new ones.

From: YeOldFart
03-Aug-06
I think it can happen, I know that with the satellite arrows that I and one of my friends both bought the arrows lost their straightness after a couple of months. We both noticed our groups going south so we ran the arrows across my arrow striaightner they spun 0.10, when I fist got them they were straight and flew great.

06-Aug-06
Hey Guys! If you are still shooting the same arrows after all this time you need to "twist" them and examine the shafts. I am nurse, and I work the first aid booth at the PA Bowhunters Festival, and every couple of years I have someone come in who has an arrow explode into their hand becuase of being damaged from being shot too long. Arrows are cheap compared to the amount of time spent in the hospital, rehab, and time off of work! Linda

From: JTV
16-Mar-18
I'm still shooting Goldtip 75/95 XT's (now called 340's) that are at least 10 years old ... if they are not cracked, they shoot .. and these shoot great ..

From: oldgoat
16-Mar-18
Don't know, never shot the same arrows long enough to find out!

From: midwest
16-Mar-18
Well, the op's 4 year old arrows are now about 16 years old. I wonder if they're still going strong? ;-)

16-Mar-18
Linda, Do you think it was a "worn" out arrow, or one that missed the target. That's some pretty rough back stop at the PA festival.

Some of the top shooters find bad arrows out of 6 brand new arrows.

From: Genesis
16-Mar-18
There is a really good shooter (shooting competively for 40 years)around us that believes he shoots spine from carbon arrows. He shoots a lot and it seems you would have to shoot constantly

Since most practice with 6 arrows I simply can't fathom one arrow being flexed enough over time to lose spine but this guy pounds the bag for sure so maybe he's on to something

From: Pat Lefemine
16-Mar-18
Interesting theory. I go through mine fast enough that it’s never been an issue.

From: BOHUNTER09
16-Mar-18
I loose them fast enough that weakening them can’t happen

From: Treeline
16-Mar-18

Treeline's embedded Photo
Treeline's embedded Photo
To further Linda’s point above here is a picture of a buddy’ hand from last year. Sure put a crimp in his Arizona Unit 9 elk hunt last year.

From: sticksender
16-Mar-18
Wow, super old thread! Easton Axis were the most troublesome shafts that I've shot for having this problem. I believe its caused by side impacts on the shaft. Kind of a "bruise" that you can't see, and the arrow still spins perfect. Often times though, the flyer could be corrected by indexing the vanes 120 degrees. I've yet to encounter this problem on the Gold Tips that I shoot now.

From: Treeline
16-Mar-18
Wow, I didn't notice the start date!

From: Shawn
16-Mar-18
Carbons not sure, Aluminum for sure. I have a buddy who won Vegas a couple times. Shoots 2712's when he shot a thousand arrows a week he said the spine would change after a few thousand shots. Shawn

From: Dooner
16-Mar-18
Years ago, I noticed that Goldtips & Bemans would loose consistency in spine after shooting a season. When I switched to Carbon Tech, problem solved. Easy to test for, just spin the arrow.

16-Mar-18
12 year old thread and still kicking. I too don’t have arrows older than a few years. I break or lose them at a rate of 12 to 15 per year.

From: ELKMAN
17-Mar-18
Yes. Absolutely, and faster than most people think. Their spine deteriorates as fast as one season on some manufacturers. One of the many reasons I will only shoot ACCs...

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