Sitka Mountain Gear
Buford Colorado
Elk
Contributors to this thread:
oldbow 24-Sep-09
Hustler 24-Sep-09
St. Croix 24-Sep-09
Gobblestopper 24-Sep-09
Jdog 24-Sep-09
hunt-em-high 24-Sep-09
oldbow 24-Sep-09
Zbone 25-Sep-09
Turk314 25-Sep-09
Zbone 25-Sep-09
Johnny 26-Sep-09
oldbow 26-Sep-09
HuntinHabit 26-Sep-09
Zbone 26-Sep-09
oldbow 26-Sep-09
Zbone 26-Sep-09
Gobblestopper 28-Sep-09
bohuntr 28-Sep-09
oldbow 28-Sep-09
bowyer45 28-Sep-09
Zbone 29-Sep-09
oldbow 29-Sep-10
Zbone 29-Sep-10
bowyer45 29-Sep-10
Jwillman6 29-Sep-10
teamstickbow 29-Sep-10
grasshopper 29-Sep-10
kadbow 29-Sep-10
Gray Ghost 30-Sep-10
kadbow 30-Sep-10
elkmtngear 30-Sep-10
grasshopper 30-Sep-10
oldbow 30-Sep-10
304thomas55 22-Oct-17
Surfbow 22-Oct-17
AndyJ 22-Oct-17
Grasshopper 23-Oct-17
The last savage 23-Oct-17
AndyJ 23-Oct-17
stealthycat 23-Oct-17
Ben 23-Oct-17
From: oldbow
24-Sep-09
I just got back from Colorado and thought that any of you Bowhunters going to be hunting the White River Drainage east of Meeker might want to know that the old Buford Store and Gas is closed so there won't be any gas or groceries there any more.

You had better gas up and get your eats and camping supplies at Meeker or whatever town you pass through on your way to this area of Colorado.

Also learned that the Frizlan Cafe will close forever very soon to so you can't eat there or take showers, buy ice, etc.

These businesses were forced to close their doors due to Politicians raising commercial businesses taxes so high that they can't afford to stay in business.

Frizlan Cafe's taxes were raised from $12,000,00 a year to $30,000,00 a year according to what I heard while there and the operater can't afford those kind of taxes so she has to close her restaurant for good.

This Tax rate may be the death knell of every outfitter in the state of Colorado and places like the Buford Store and Frizlan cafe.

Anyway, if your an old timer who depended on buying your gas and food at Buford or Frizlans Cafe, well now you can't do that anymore, so get prepared before you head into the White River area.

From: Hustler
24-Sep-09
Yet another reason why BIG gov't does not need to have their hands in business. How can people who lose BILLIONS each year be expected to have the reponsibility of gowing our economy. Hearing stries like this makes my stomach churn to the point of puking.

The founding fathers said Governments role is only to do for the people what they cannot do for themselves. It is our repsonsibility as business owners to make it or not based on customers/service/ offereing great products. The rule of free enterprize founded this great country and we need desperatley for our leaders in Washington to understand that.

24-Sep-09
That's too bad, I've spent money at both of those establishments.

From: St. Croix
24-Sep-09
I hate to hear of any "mom and pop" place going out of business. Those places had charm and character, something seriously lacking in this country these days.

Anyhow, thanks for the heads-up.

24-Sep-09
That really stinks, been out there 3 times and stopped in that store every time. Is the Sleepy Cat restaurant still open?

From: Jdog
24-Sep-09
yeah man...sux that is closed. I hunted up there last Oct and the store was closed--we were all depressed. We had to drive all the way to Meeker for gas/food/supplies like you said. The owners were still using the cabins for outfitting hunters but the store and gas pump were closed. Hate to see mom and pop places close down...

From: hunt-em-high
24-Sep-09
Gobble, No the Sleepy Cat is not open

From: oldbow
24-Sep-09
I was told that Sleepy Cat closed for the same reason, the Taxes closed them to.

I was also told that some 38 businesses in Aspen closed for the same reason.

Possibly the "new World Order" putting people out of business so their members can gobble up the property for pennies on the dollar......

No one can afford to buy these businesses with the tax levy so high so that leaves the property to the rich... which leaves me out....

From: Zbone
25-Sep-09
Wow - Really sad Buford Store and Sleepy Cat are now closed. I know changing that side of the Flattops to archery draw units didn't help business either. That is the reason I haven't been back in years.

BTW - Where, was Frizlan Cafe?

From: Turk314
25-Sep-09
It is a travisty that the Buford Store closed. We used to stop there daily to buy fuel for our quads and trucks. Not to mention the staples we needed throughout the trip. The owner and his family were very pleaseant to deal with. I have not been that way for three years now. I also got news that Sleepy Cat did close down, they bull dozed the place and are building million dollar homes on the property. Wow! we had some great dinners there, and met people from around the world in the bar. The long trip will now be to go to Meeker, it's ashame. I'll have to look for some of my pictures from there.

From: Zbone
25-Sep-09
Crying shame to bulldoze the Sleepy Cat, was a gorgeous lodge, and it wasn’t that old either…

From: Johnny
26-Sep-09
Thanks for the information. We are heading up to that are for the first time this coming rifle season; hunted Unit 7 during bow season. Not our normal hunting location, but tag allocation kind of screwed up our normal plans.

If anyone here is open to sharing some private insight on the area please PM. We will be on horse back hunting cow elk only, so our initial plan is to head into the wilderness area.

Thanks,

John

From: oldbow
26-Sep-09
Thousands of acres of timber was burned up near Trappers Lake and the area looks like it was nuked so take some saws if you're going to pack into that part of the country; burned ares are ugly as heck but its always been my experience that, that is the place animals love because of all the newly sprouted browse so don't be put off by what you see near Trappers lake from the burn.

The Old Trappers Lake Lodge burned but they have rebuildt a new one with a restaurant but I didn't see much in there for camping or groceries, plus I saw no gas pumps there either.

Another thing I noticed was a real lack of Mule Deer in that area from what I used to see..

I also didn't see as much going on at Ripple Creek Lodge as in the past; you used to be able to rent horses from Ripple Creek Lodge and there was always several bowhunters there but this year the place looked almost deserted.

I would also think that if you are looking for a good hunting area and if you have tags for the place that the forest service road that travels east of Yellow Jacket Pass road would be a good place to camp and hunt; that area used to be beautiful and easy to get around in.

Frizlans Cafe was east of Buford just south of the hiway, about eight miles east of Buford I believe; the lady that owns the place will probably remain open until the end of this year.

She wasn't getting rich there and she was a benefit to the whole area just like Buford Store was but higher taxes put her out of business and caused a lot of problems for everyone who lived in the area, who now have to drive literally hundreds of miles to get groceries and gas, and now that the taxes are so high on these places, no one would buy them and reopen the businesses due the fact that they couldn't make a profit or enough to even live on.

Most likely the same thing will happen to the Clark Colorado store and every little country store in Colorado that has provided services for hunters and their communities for years.....is that progress????

If you notice the Country Store at Lake City is "for sale" and who would buy it since a Chain store grocery is going to build one their chain stores there...put all the Mom and Pop country stores out of business and the country folk will be forced to come to town to buy chain store groceries......If I was in the grocery chain store business, I'd be after my congress man to raise the taxes and put the Mom and Pop stores out of business to......then I'd profit from their undoing....

And in the end, we Bowhunters suffer.....

From: HuntinHabit
26-Sep-09
Wow, it's been 21 years this month since I was at the Buford Store on my first elk hunt. Very sad.

It sure is good to see our elected leaders ensuring that these rich greedy business owners pay thier fair share of taxes. Disgusting. My grandparents are almost 90, and grandpa saw hell in WWII. He's a proud man for what he fought for. I can only imagine how heartbreaking it is to see the US heading in the same direction that you put your life on the line to fight against.

From: Zbone
26-Sep-09
oldbow – WOW, I had no idea Trappers Lake area and Lodge burnt. How long ago, and did any of the cabins survive???

Haven’t been to the area in years but was always one of my all time favorite places. Figured it may someday burn bad due to the deadfalls from the beetle blight years ago. It was a tinderbox, but I hadn’t heard it had burnt.

Thanx for any info.

From: oldbow
26-Sep-09
I believe the forest near Trappers Lake burned in 2002 but all the old cabins there didn't burn, just the old Lodge burned I believe; the old store sitting next to it survived. It looks like Hell up there now but in a few years that should be one the most beautiful places in the mountains if the Aspens take over and grow.

They have timber cutters all over those burns, taking down snags for safety measures so be prepared to hear Chainsaws all over the mountains up there for awhile.

They should Clear cut it and leave the live trees but I guess the Beatles will get the live ones to in the end.

All across Colorado and southern Wyoming the Beatles have killed thousands of Spruce Trees and they are timbering off thousands of acres of dead trees all across northern Colorado and southern Wyoming so be prepared for your old hunting areas to be laying on the ground and stacked in huge piles of logs and loggers everywhere cutting up these dead trees.

From: Zbone
26-Sep-09
The last time I was in the area was September 2002

28-Sep-09
Man, this is a sad thread! I am in awe that they bulldozed the sleepy cat. That is one of the best places I've ever been for a meal. Just the atmosphere alone was great. Sitting there eating a steak after 10 days on the mountain watching a guy flyfishing in the river out back.....sad sad sad!

From: bohuntr
28-Sep-09
I remember there was a guy who cooked barbequed brisket out of a chuck wagon type deal right outside the Buford store ... that stuff was awesome! Really sad news. I actually drove throught Meeker on my way from my hunt this year and thought about going out to Buford just to get some brisket. I am glad I didn't bother now. On the same topic the Antlers restaraunt in Yampa is also closed down. Darn shame!

From: oldbow
28-Sep-09
Most likely the Antlers restaraunt closed because of this Tax Hike; is there any store opened in Phippsburg now? We passed through there this month and I don't remember seeing a store of any kind there.

We ate at the Clark Colorado country store and it was pretty good eating.

They fix meals at the Clark Store among other services they still provide.

Best Blueberry Pie We ever ate was at the Pleasant Valley Store on hiway 50 west of Gunnison; they still serve it with ice cream on top, boy I'm getting hungry and here my wife has me on a diet.

From: bowyer45
28-Sep-09
I moved to this area in early 1979 and have enjoyed those establisments since then hunting and camping all over northwest colorado, saw the burning down of the original Sleepycat lodge back in the late eighties and enjoying the newer lodge since. In all the world it was our favorite place! I would always enjoy seeing all the hunters coming there to eat each year and I always took friends to the lodge when they came out to hunt. Talk about nostelga!!That place has it. I was by the lodge a month or so ago and it was intact and the previous owners seem to be overseeing it and may work out something in reopening it according to what I heard? The muli million dollar developement was south of the river that was mentioned above. At least that was how it was a few months ago. Here's another example where rich tycoons are ruining the west for their own enjoyment! Funny how the new government advertises themself as for the little guy! By the time the middle class realises this falsehood it will be too late!

From: Zbone
29-Sep-09
How can they raise taxes 3 fold? Was this a state tax?

From: oldbow
29-Sep-10
I believe from what I was told that this was a State Tax hike. I was told that there were several businesses in Aspen Colorado that were forced to close their doors because of this Tax hike. I'm not from Colorado so I'm not really knowledgeable about all that stuff Zbone.

From: Zbone
29-Sep-10
thanx

From: bowyer45
29-Sep-10
Hopefully we at the tea parties can help correct this B.S going on, by helping elect state legislators and a governor who cares for the complete state and not just the east slope! The past and present legislators are killing our economy and putting people out of work by these tax hikes! Raising taxes as we kill jobs at the same time is destructive.

From: Jwillman6
29-Sep-10
This is what is going to happen everywhere to support our big Gov't...entitlement programs, health care, failing infrastructures and our Congressmen getting huge retirement when they are no longer in office. We are going to have to change things somehow or this country is going to fail. It is a very bad situaion, because someone is going to have to pay our debt or we will be in a world of hurt. You can tax the super rich more and they are the ones that create jobs in one form or another. You can tax the working class and they are strugging too much as it is. The only way I see is to someway jumpstart the economy to increase working people and have more revenue to tax and cut Gov't cost, but this is very hard to do, especially jumpstarting the economy.

From: teamstickbow
29-Sep-10
Thats really sad as I made a trip there every year.....I loved that place! there isnt many plaace like that around anymore. I remember going fishing with my grandpa growing up and he would always take me there to eat durng the day. Sad.....

From: grasshopper
29-Sep-10
I don't know what tax they are talking about, unless it is a county levied property tax. Colorado carries a 5% income tax, any sales taxes would be paid by consumers.

It sounds like we all get a ~5% increase this year for Obama care.

There may be some business tax I am uncertain of, but I would most likely think it is county driven. I am self employed and get to pay unemployment tax, etc.

We get plenty of ballot intiatives every year - this year there is one on the ballot to reduce property taxes statewide, with lots of opposition because schools lose out.

From: kadbow
29-Sep-10
Property taxes go up with all the million dollar homes being built in the area. I was just through there a few weeks ago and I thought the Sleepy Cat was still there, just not open to the public. The old guy at Ripple Creek just kind of let the place go. Trappers lake was gorgeous IMO, saw lots of sign in the burn I wandered through, wasn't hunting though.

From: Gray Ghost
30-Sep-10
I don't think property taxes have tripled in Buford Colorado in the last year. And I'm not aware of any new taxes that would cause a jump from $12K to $30K for the cafe.

This thread appears to be unsubstantiated rumors and speculation.

GG

From: kadbow
30-Sep-10
You are right GG, property taxes were the only thing that I could think of increasing.

From: elkmtngear
30-Sep-10
Fritzlan's was a surprise this year.....we thought we were going to get breakfast on a rainy morning...no dice!

Lot's of changes going on, and not exactly in the best interest of DIY Bowhunters, there are certain people in that area with a lot of money and power who are trying to "control" the wildlife, and they have the DOW in their back pocket! I am starting to agree with some that are saying that hunting will soon be a sport only for the upper class. Sorry, had to vent a little!

Best of Luck, Jeff (Bowsite Sponsor)

From: grasshopper
30-Sep-10
I don't think property taxes on commercially zoned property would increase because of residentially zoned million dollar homes. Every county is different, but typically commercial zoning pays the highest taxes (gas stations, restaraunts, etc), residential would be lower, and ag would be the cheapest.

The million dollar home market is in the tank right now, they ain't building unless it's "pre-sold" and the buyer has put up a lot of money down. Most local lenders have to much deafaulted real estate on their balance sheets and won't loan on real estate right now.

That said small business administration loans are rampin up, why don't you boys just buy those operations - and take over these failed businesses?

From: oldbow
30-Sep-10

Anyone out in the Meeker-Buford area who can shed some light on this story of a property-business tax hike.

I received this information from a Bowhunter at Frizlans place who was telling me that this was going to be the last time-year that this business was going to be open and that the place was up for sale because the long term owners could not afford to pay the newer tax hike.

He also told me that several businesses at Aspen had closed their doors because they couldn't afford these tax hikes.

I'm wondering now if the Country Store at Glade Park Colorado is going to be affected by this Tax hike.

I don't remember seeing any kind of store at Phippsburg Colorado where I used to get Gas, Groceries, etc.

The old stores at Cimmaron and Pleasant Valley West of Gunnison were still open in September of 2009.

I guess a guy just better not head out of the bigger towns out there anymore without a full tank of gas and plenty of groceries.

From: 304thomas55
22-Oct-17
I thought the cannibus market was saving grace for Colorado

From: Surfbow
22-Oct-17
This thread was 7 years old...

From: AndyJ
22-Oct-17
Once again GG is the voice of logic. This is happening all over the west but especially CO. CO is THE place to be. There are no more secret spots to buy cheap land. It is all expensive and it is all getting bought. If it is cheap it is landlocked and or inaccessible in the winter. Anywhere even slightly desireable is being bought generally by very wealthy out of staters. This is driving up property taxes at a colossal rate. Need more examples? Look at literally every ski town in the west. In Telluride the saying 15 years ago was the billionaires are pushing the millionaires out. This has NOTHING to do with politics, just supply and demand. Don’t make it what it isn’t. But it is very sad it is happening.

From: Grasshopper
23-Oct-17
Not sure why a 7 year old topic floats up.

For the 545 acres I own, the county property taxes are $210 a year. If you have ag zoning, your not paying diddly squat in county taxes, never have.

While vacant land may be appreciating, you could double my ag zoned taxes and it still isn't didly squat.

23-Oct-17
I haven't heard " diddly squat " since Jose Wales, Fantastic wordage and point!

From: AndyJ
23-Oct-17
The classics never die.

From: stealthycat
23-Oct-17
Obamacare and demanded increases in min wage kills companies - Democrats don't get that

From: Ben
23-Oct-17
I'm still in shock that the Antlers bar and Grill in Yampa is closed. I remember bellying up to the bar there several times. It was a great local bar. What about the little store there that you could by tags at and supplies, is it still open?

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