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What would you say the approximate dimensions of the vitals on a decent sized bull elk are?

I put the dot where I would think the best aiming spot would be. What are your guys' thoughts?

There have been a ton of great threads on this, with diagrams, cutaways, etc.. Do a search and you'll find more than you'll ever need for reference.

I'd aim right where Jaquomo says also.

The link looks real good. Thanks

Unless they are quartered quite a bit more than the photo, I aim 1/3 of the way up straight above the knuckle on deer and will do the same for elk given the chance

Wow, I have to say I learned alot from BB's posts.

Plus BB is aiming for THE BLOOD VESSELS as opposed to the "center of the lungs" which would result in the fastest death.

For me, I still have a hard time not aiming for the crease because BB's shot will result in bloody shoulder meat. So, when I bowhunt I'll aim for BB's target and when I gunhunt, I'll aim for the crease.

By aiming there you have a good 12" diameter of vitals. If you aim lower and into the shoulder, your diameter gets much smaller.

Corey Elk101.com

I aim where BB suggests...straight up the leg (broadside) so the arrow is headed for the top of the heart. Closest representation of my aiming point on this thread is High Country...although i may aim just a hair higher than that.

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Take a look at the diagram I posted in the second post on this thread and you'll see what I mean. But your aiming spot on that cutaway is right on.

It gives you approx. a 7" margin of error around your aiming point. There is more error back and up on the elk though. That would be important for one the ducks or moves forward on the shot... as was said by someone earlier.

It gives a much larger margin of error. Approx. a 13" margin of error (or 6.5" to each side of your aiming point). I would think anything in the yellow circle will kill an elk.

I think I will aim for more of the crease. It may not drop in front of me like the "V" shot, but I wouldn't think the tracking job would be too long with that aiming point. Also, it gives me a little room to work with when "bull fever" kicks in.

I just figured this would be a good way to look at a few different aiming points. What do you guys think?

When shooting at small circles on my target I was beating myself up for misses that weren't all that bad as it turns out.

If you're not shooting at 3D targets give it a try, it might help some.

This is what a guy does when he can't get the upcoming hunt out of his mind.

Does anyone think that any broadhead in the bigger yellow circle wouldn't result in a fairly easy recovery of an elk? I ask because I am new to the elk hunting game and have no experience recovering an arrowed elk.

Does having the actual dimensions and margin or error change a persons thoughts on the best spot to aim? A 13" circle is pretty damn big!

Hope everyone has a great hunt. Two more weeks for me, and it is on!

I just re-read through the whole thread. I guess I am showing exactly what you said. I think you are dead on after seeing it on paper. Good advice Corey! Thanks

Jeck's illustration is right on the money, too.

I gotta stop reading these elk threads I'm getting to hyped.

These threads are always entertaining, but hopefully educational as well. The bottom line is that no one should take a shot they aren't comfortable or confident in. Keep those thoughts as a guideline and success will prevail.

Many thanks, Corey Elk101.com

I agree on the comment about all lung areas being created equal. However, my experiences with high lung hits have been pretty lethal. A high, "clip the top of the lung" shot...not so much, but the solid, in-the-lung shot allows the blood to pool into the lungs and causes a quick kill.

High/back lung shots are less lethal, as are low/back lung shots. Most shots within 4" of the crease (high or low) have resulted in fast kills. As the arrow drifts back from there, I've seen some long bloodtrails.

I might pull down 2-3" from vertical center and hold right on the crease, and it usually produces a short bloodtrail, even if I'm off by 4-6". If I aim for the lower 1/3 and hit 6" low, I have nothing by brisket blood to follow, and usually not an elk at the end of the trail.

If I'm 20 yards broadside, I'm aiming for the spot 1/3 the way up. If I'm out at 40 yards and judging the distance (more chance to miss the mark by a few inches), I aim for the spot with the greatest margin of error. Regardless, I pick a single spot and aim for it, rather than aiming at an "area".

3 more months!

Corey

But as angles change, so must your point of aim. But I would want my arrow to pass through the middle of the bull through the white, if one could extend the white all the way through the body. So on a quartering away shot, I would aim same height, but back farther to where my arrow would pass through the extend white area in the middle of the bull. Same results. If it was quartering to me, then one must wait until the quarter is near straight on the get an arrow through that area, if that makes sense!

Have a great bow hunt. BB

Now to try and print replicate BB's shot placement on as realistic a target as I can find...

BB/Jeck66...will either/both of you kindly allow me to reproduce your photographs for my own [sole personal and private] use, so I can recreate the 'sweetspot' as a paper target, which I can use to practice shot placement?

Certainly from Jeck's graphics which have dimensions, I reckon I can enlarge the photos to a scale of 1:1 which is near enough the size of the deer vitals or spots faces on my Rinehart 'Rhinoblock' target i.e. 16" wide by 13" tall.

Many thanks in advance.

Good luck and good hunting

Kenneth (A British Bowhunter and Proud of It)

I printed the body life-sized at work and attached it to the the insulation foam board... then put my big bag target behind it and my block target. It is fun to take some shots at a life size target. Definitely a confidence builder. The target has a one year life tho...

I'm always conscious when shooting that the vitals on my Rhinoblock target are approx 9" wide by 6" high...which at 60 yards is a pretty small target area, with little margin for error...so using elk size targets will help get a feel for where I will need to hit at distance

Here's a view from a tree stand. Anyone has permission to use, share, enlarge and print etc. any bow ed photo I have ever posted. It's always in the best interest of bowhunting, therefore go for it should you desire.

Have a great bow hunt. BB

Here's a moose photo and I outlined the area I where I much prefer to hit. The bright yellow is the place where I hit on the last moose I killed.

Have a great bow hunt. BB

Here's a bull that I shot about as tight into the V as you would want to shoot. This bull ran a lot farther than Les's in the video I posted and it wasn't a very good blood trail. I didn't see the bull fall and I had to track him for a ways...

Here's one I shot that was a pretty steep quartering away shot. According to your article it's not preferable since it was more than "slightly quartering away". However, this bull was down in sight, less than 50 yards.

But we don't have the pics and hear about the hundreds of poor shots taken that the animal is lost or suffers needlessly. Can you kill an animal with a frontal shot ? Yes but there are far more wounds and loses we never hear about. That's why many outfitters have gone to a wound policy. I would be willing to bet the frontal shot taken with outfitters with wound policies is drastically reduced then the DYI hunter or outfitters without..

As archers we need to take the highest most lethal shot we can.

As far as your bull I can't judge your shot. If the angle allowed you to get both lungs and being it went down in 50 yds it most likely got both lungs or lungs and heart it was a good shot. To me it looks like a good elevated shot.

I will not take a frontal shot or quartering to me or walking shot which has left me to passed many bulls. Over cautious ? Maybe,, but my percentage of success is very high.

If you read the article in its whole text I would say it is defining "slightly quartering away" as the degree of angle to get both lungs. At some point the degree of the quartering away is compromised.

You have posted that article in the past as away of presenting your anti-frontal shot opinion. You are entitled to your opinion and I agree, you should limit yourself to the shots you feel comfortable with.

However, your belief that anybody who makes a kill with anything other than your "perfect shot scenario" made a poor shot and got lucky is a somewhat of a stretch if not judgemental and narrow-minded.

The statement you made:

"Can you kill an animal with a frontal shot ? Yes but there are far more wounds and loses we never hear about."

Is irresponsible and unfounded by fact. How do you know how many animals are wounded and lost with the frontal shot?

The same could be said about the broadside shot but it would be unfounded because we don't know the true statistics. How many animals are missed left or right and shot in the guts and lost? You won't have a gut shot with a frontal shot unless you shoot through vital organs and the diaphragm first.

You will not take a frontal shot because you're not comfortable with it. That's good advice, nobody should shoot beyond their ability or understanding. Your success rate is very high and that's great. However there are those, possibly with more experience (BigDan and BB for example) who will take a frontal shot and also have a very high success rate. Personally I have killed 2 bulls with a frontal shot and a buddy I was hunting with killed 1. Myself and my hunting partners have had zero losses with frontal shots. I have however, as much as I hate to admit it because I'll probably be crucified for it, lost a bull on a broadside shot that was too far back. I hit another one too far back that I found the next morning and I know of other friends and acquantances who have lost or had delayed recoveries due to broadside hits that were too far back. To the contrary, I don't personally know one person who has lost an elk with a frontal shot.

As I said, there's more than one way to skin a cat and when presented with an opportunity you have to decide yourself if you can envision the arrow's path to the vitals. If you can and you're confident, kill the elk, otherwise pass on the shot.

Outfitters may have many different or more restrictive rules based on their opinions, business decisions, etc. I would guess that wounding policies are much more a result of clients who are just flat out bad shots rather than being based purely on frontal shots. If you hire a guide to lead you around and tell you what to do, when to do it and how to do it that's your choice. I prefer the DIY route.

One could say your statement " I would guess that wounding policies are much more a result of clients who are just flat out bad shots rather than being based purely on frontal shots. If you hire a guide to lead you around and tell you what to do, when to do it and how to do it that's your choice. I prefer the DIY route. " Is irresponsible and unfounded by fact and very judgmental. I have 20 p-points for Colorado and points in Wy and Mont. Some of the best and biggest elk are on private land and you have to be guided to get on those lands,,, we don't need to be lead around and told what to do. We also do DYI hunts.

You posted "Personally I have killed 2 bulls with a frontal shot and a buddy I was hunting with killed 1. Myself and my hunting partners have had zero losses with frontal shots. I have however, as much as I hate to admit it because I'll probably be crucified for it, lost a bull on a broadside shot that was too far back. I hit another one too far back that I found the next morning and I know of other friends and acquantances who have lost or had delayed recoveries due to broadside hits that were too far back. To the contrary, I don't personally know one person who has lost an elk with a frontal shot."

Well there you have it,,, The frontal shot is the best shot to take and gives hunters the best over all kill opportunity and the best opportunity for a double lung or heart shot according to you. I always thought the broadside shot gave the hunter the best window of opportunity for success. I didn't realize it is the frontal shot.... I stand corrected LOL.

Seems strange though you and everyone you know can hit a baseball size frontal shot with 100% success but you wound the broadside shots Hmmmmmm. Guess animals don't jump or move when being shot head on.

We will never agree on this shot. You will continue to praise and take the shot and I will continue to preach against it.

You can find many friends in support and I can find many against.

Good Luck this Fall >>>---->

I don't know how my speculation on the origin of wounding policies and my commentary on hiring a guide could be seen as irresponsible and judgemental... but you're entitled to your opinion.

You and I both know that I never said "The frontal shot is the best shot to take and gives hunters the best over all kill opportunity and the best opportunity for a double lung or heart shot". I haven't seen word twisting like that since good old Rancid Crabtree was on the WI site! LOL! I think it's pretty obvious that my point was about the odds of an accidental gut shot.

Also, I never said anything about a baseball size frontal shot. If you think the frontal kill zone is the size of a baseball there's no wonder why you think it's such a bad choice!

And I'm not sure how the fact that you have 20 p-points for Colorado and you plan to hunt guided on private land plays into the equation but since you brought it up... in 2012 I got within 35 yards of a 350 class bull on a DIY public land OTC CO hunt and last year I killed a 360 class bull on a DIY public land hunt in a CO unit that took way fewer than 20 p-points to draw and to top it off I killed it with a frontal shot! Damn I was lucky! Sorry, couldn't resist ;^)

Yes we can agree to disagree, but I'll make you a deal; you stop saying that those who kill elk with anything other than a broadside shot "made a poor shot and got lucky" and stop implying that we are unethical and I'll stop saying that you're stretching it and are possibly being judgemental and narrow minded... deal?

Now, lets get back to a worthwile discussion!

Get the heck over it and go hunting. Just remember, there are few "humane" deaths in the wild. Old age, worn out teeth, starvation, wolves, hit by car, etc. All can be worse than a misplaced arrow through one lung or liver that some hunter doesn't find, yet still die in hours... just a mile or so from the shot.

Mother nature is by far more cruel than all bow hunters combined.