Sitka Mountain Gear
Victory VAP Arrows. Good or bad?
Equipment
Contributors to this thread:
Lad 03-Jun-13
ernie 10-Jun-13
edge1771 10-Jun-13
Bluff Bucks 10-Jun-13
joehunter8301 10-Jun-13
tthomas 10-Jun-13
ptahunter 11-Jun-13
ernie 12-Jun-13
Buglmin 12-Jun-13
Lad 13-Jun-13
ohiohunter 13-Jun-13
ernie 14-Jun-13
Mark Watkins 14-Jun-13
Mark Watkins 14-Jun-13
ernie 17-Jun-13
R.Cooling 18-Jun-13
Bowfreak 18-Jun-13
Lad 18-Jun-13
ernie 20-Jun-13
Coues HNTR 21-Jun-13
elkhunter113 23-Jun-13
midwest 23-Jun-13
tthomas 25-Jun-13
Coues HNTR 26-Jun-13
Mark Watkins 28-Jun-13
Bighorn 29-Jun-13
Lad 02-Jul-13
delaney's outdoors 26-Aug-17
razorhead 27-Aug-17
Dino 27-Aug-17
Russ Koon 27-Aug-17
From: Lad
03-Jun-13
What's your thoughts on the VAP arrows? I'm hunting pronghorn and thought they would be a good choice for shooting through crosswind.

From: ernie
10-Jun-13
I was hoping someone would give some feedback on this post by now as I am considering trying them as well. A hunting friend has switched to these smaller shafts and is pleased with what he sees on targets only. Tighter groups and more penetration with broadheads than with the larger shafts he and I have shot for years. Good write-up in Peterson's Bowhunting a few months ago.

From: edge1771
10-Jun-13
I'd be interested in hearing some feedback on these as well. Anyone out there?

From: Bluff Bucks
10-Jun-13
I shot them last year and will again this year.Shot 4 animals with them a mature bull elk and whitetail buck and 2 turkeys.They performed and penetrated great.My set up is a 70lb Bowtech Insanity 29" draw shooting VAP 350 with 100 grain broadhead arrow weight approx 400 grn.

10-Jun-13
I talked to a guy this past weekend who shoots them. Only gripe he had was the inserts bent easily being that they stuck out an were only aluminum. Same issue the goldtip kinetics were having. I'm interested to see what others might say too.

From: tthomas
10-Jun-13
1. Inserts will bend but if you call the customer service they will send you new ones.

2. Nocks will break at the throat but they will send you new ones.

Anyone who says the arrows will perform better in a cross wind is pulling your leg. I have the ultimate test here in Alberta. We get winds up to 60 miles an hour. You can not shoot in that wind but I have spots in my barn where I can be out of the wind and can shoot out to 90 yards and see the impact of wind on the arrows. VAP, ACC's or Carbon Express, Blazers, Flex Fletch and even the old 4 inch vanes show little difference. Yes they may be impacted a bit but the bigger impact will be your ability to hold in the wind. In any conditions where you are able to hold steady and shoot at long distances, the impact of the wind is negligible.

Bluff, great news on the flat flying and hard penetrating VAP's on those turkey. I have the same set up as you and figure there are better choices. Also the VAP snap like toothpicks. Not something you want if you get most of the arrow in an elk.

I liked the idea of the VAP but the outsert is their weak point (no pun intended). You need to spin test them as they will bend shooting into a 3D target. Their customer rep guys says that if they don't bend the first few times they should be okay (that is second hand comments from a friend).

From: ptahunter
11-Jun-13
I have shot vaps and love said the outserts do bend, but i am experimenting with the new penetrator 2 and firenock outserts. The penetrator 2 is 50 grains and aluminum, but it has a lip that fits over the arrow and is an insert/ousert(has a stem that goes int the arrow.The firenock is different, it 33 grains. It fits over the arrow with no stem. It has much less tendency to bend. I'll report my results once i shoot then a bunch into a bag target. I had the firenocks come off when pulling out but did not use the proper adhesive. By the way, they do penetrate great into game. Black eagle makes the deep Impact and eastom has the injexion. Greaty arrows too. but the Vaps are lighter GPI which I like.Finished arrow at 29 inches and 100 grain insert is about 380 grains. If you want more punch and don't mind less speed ,use the eastons or deep impacts. Firenock makes the outserts for most of these arrows.

From: ernie
12-Jun-13
Still trying to decide whether to try or not. As said earlier, a friend claims he's having better penetration and grouping with the VAP's. But lots written about the VAP aluminum inserts bending. Surprised nobody has mentioned using the stainless steel insert? I was intending to try the VAP's only if I could get the ss inserts but they weigh 92 grains vs 33-43 grains for the aluminum of Victory's. The higher weight of the ss insert moves my FOC from about 14% up to around 18.5%; 17.5% if I went up to the 300 shaft. I'm concerned about investing in a half dozen when I know the FOC is that high. Comments appreciated - I am no expert on arrows, and nearest bow shop for the VAP's is 2 1/2 hours drive.

Only reason I'm considering migrating from my Gold Tip setup I've used for years on elk, mulies, turkeys, plains game, etc. is that I've drawn an archery bighorn ram tag and wanting to try to move my effective range from around 35 yards out to around 45 (I'm 70 and only pull about 52 pounds comfortably any more).

From: Buglmin
12-Jun-13
ernie, look into the Black Eagle Arrows Rampage or Deep Impact shafts. Ive been shooting the Rampage shafts for three months now, and really like them over the VAP's Ive been using. I can use a ACC 3-28 half out insert in the Rampages, or I can use a Carbon Express Edge 250 half outsert in them as well if I dont like the 33 grain outsert. I've yet to bend an outsert or break a nock in the Rmpages. Another thing Im looking into is glueing a broadhead directly into the shaft. The threaded part of a broadhed or field point fits perfectly inside the Rampage .400 spine shafts. The shafts Ive done this way fly perfect out of my recurves with a 135 grain Zwickey Delta and a 16 grain adapter...

From: Lad
13-Jun-13
I ended up getting a dozen VAP 400's to test out. I haven't bent any outsert but I haven't made a close inspection. I'll do that this weekend. So far I like the arrows. I'm shooting a Bowtech Insanity CPXL 28" DL 58 pound draw weight 388 grains arrow weight 28 1/4" arrow length (I think) 279 fps arrow speed 67 pounds of KE

tthomas, I was surprised to hear the affects of wind drift were the same between arrows, but you are correct. My issue with the wind is usually not being able to hold on my target.

Thanks for everyone's input. If you have more info please submit it.

From: ohiohunter
13-Jun-13
I was gonna say, if you're after a skinny arrow, take a look at the easton deep six. Yes you have less broadhead choices, but they offer the exodus and that's all I would need.

From: ernie
14-Jun-13
Lad, interested as to whether you are using the aluminum inserts or the stainless steel?

Ohiohunter, thanks for alternative. For now, I'd rather stick with broadheads I have and not explore both new shafts and broadheads, due to limited time.

From: Mark Watkins
14-Jun-13
Have shot the VAPs since January os 2012......killed 4 deer and one bull elk this past fall. The deer were complete pass throughs (as they should be) and the bull was shot at a steep quartering away angle just in front of his left Hip at 52 yards. The arrow ended skewering the entire length of the elk and embedding in the far shoulder. Point being, in my experience, penetration has been excellent at 68 lbs. shooting a FbBH (slick trick).

IMHO, spine up one stiffer and go with the SS (92 grains) insert. By the charts I should be shooting the 350 but went with the 300 and the SS. Thus, bringing arrow weight in at 440 grains. FOC is 17.1%.

I find them to be an extremely accurate arrow and shoot regularly out to 100 yards.

Victory has just recently sent out prototypes of their new 43 grain aluminum inserts to some of their dealers to put through the paces. It is of a stronger, higher grade aluminum per the dealer....looks just like their old one other than anodizing has been done to it. The dealer i talked to shot one into a cinder block and the insert held up and continues to spin true......only time will tell if they really get this aluminum insert correct this time.

Obviously, I like the VAP an have had very good results with them.

Good luck with whatever you decide is right for you!

Mark

From: Mark Watkins
14-Jun-13
Previous post should have read.....no anodizing has been done to the new insert. It is aluminum in color and was received by this particular dealer in early June.

Mark

From: ernie
17-Jun-13
Great information, Mark, thanks much. Shooting an FOC of 17% out to long distances with consistent accuracy is good news. I've seen many references say not to exceed 10% and some go up to 15%, but don't hear much from these references on what happens if you exceed these "limits". Maybe the old FOC limits just aren't applicable for the newer skinny arrows?

From: R.Cooling
18-Jun-13
I really like the Black Eagle deep impacts. They are very durable.

From: Bowfreak
18-Jun-13
Great arrows with unreal penetration.

Inserts are useless if you go with Aluminum. The only real option is SS or Firenock.

From: Lad
18-Jun-13
Ernie, I have the aluminum inserts but after reading everyone's comments, I'm thinking about swapping to SS insert.

From: ernie
20-Jun-13
Lad, Unless you're in a hurry to switch to more durable insert, perhaps waiting until some of the test results (from users, not necessarily from manufacturer) become available on the new aluminum inserts might be useful. I'm guessing that the new alum. insert (43 grain) will be much more forgiving than the original (I think around 33 grains). And the 43 grain insert will keep the FOC down a little from the FOC w/ the 90+ grain SS insert if that is a consideration (recognize that some folks like the SS because it increases FOC). Bottom line is what shoots best in each person's bow.

From: Coues HNTR
21-Jun-13
Have been shooting the VAP 350's for a year now. Shooting a 27 inch arrow with 100 grain tips. PSE Evo7 with 28 inch draw. Was just at the pro shop tonight and did a chronograph test. 300FPS have not had any problems with the inserts. Had a complete pass through on a bull elk last year quartering away with the exit in front of the shoulder. I have no complaints.

From: elkhunter113
23-Jun-13
Vaps are great arrow.With the new ss insert you can't stop them.

From: midwest
23-Jun-13
Okay, I'm totally ignorant on these shafts and their website seems to be down. Can someone school me on why I would want to go back to "outserts"?

From: tthomas
25-Jun-13
Midwest

I do not think the performance makes having an extra 0ne inch of arrow hanging out of your quiver, worth the hassle.

So perhaps the new ss insert will eliminate that.

Coues HNTR shoots through a bull elk, quartering away with the exit in the front of the shoulder. That is impressive so maybe they need to be reconsidered.

Until they get an outsert that doesn't bend then I will stay away.

From: Coues HNTR
26-Jun-13

Coues HNTR's embedded Photo
Coues HNTR's embedded Photo
My 2012 NM Bull. Victor VAP 350 arrows with G5 Montec broadhead.

From: Mark Watkins
28-Jun-13
Midwest, Reason to consider is threefold: Accuracy, accuracy, accuracy. For hunting (and all shooting)............Spine up one size heavier and shoot the SS with the broadhead of your choice. I have not found negative flight characteristics (fast arrow drop) as long as FOC stays below about 18.5% (out of a compound).

Mark

From: Bighorn
29-Jun-13
Has any one tried the easton a/c/e insert or deep six insert

From: Lad
02-Jul-13
Nice bull Coues HNTR. Admit it....You got him with a tomahawk! lol

26-Aug-17
we have have outstanding results with the VAPS. They fly and penetrate better than any other we have tested. I would recommend the elite series.

From: razorhead
27-Aug-17
how about a picture on the topic

From: Dino
27-Aug-17
Is this thread not a few years old? :)

From: Russ Koon
27-Aug-17
I can understand the penetration benefit when shooting into a target composed of a material that is intended to stop the arrow within several inches of penetration using friction with the shaft as the basic stopping factor.

I always have questioned the application of the penetration obtained under those conditions as being the same as the penetration on an actual live animal. IMO, the friction factor would be almost nil on an animal when penetrating flesh and soft tissues, and might only be a factor when passing through bone that was not completely shattered by the BH's passing through it a split second earlier.

I suspect there is a lot of transference by users when they see the penetration on a game animal that would have been delivered by most other arrow shafts just as well, because they EXPECTED it as a result of their use of a skinny shaft, rather than as a truly surprising result.

A good friend got the same penetration on a nearly identical elk several years ago using his regular ICS diameter carbons and fixed blade BH's, for instance, and was pleased at the penetration but not really astounded, because it wasn't all that unusual. He only mentioned it because so many at the time were insisting that his carbons weren't heavy enough, at 385 grains, to be effective on elk.

I don't recall which manufacturer it was, but one of them used to include a fine-print disclaimer on their full-page ads saying that the penetration results in targets should not be considered as representative of the expected result in game.

IMO, the penetration in actual animals should be about the same whether the shaft is a normal diameter one or a skinny one, when the friction is being supplied by wet meat, soft tissues, and bones which have just been penetrated by a BH of larger diameter than the shaft.

For my money, I'll stay with my Easton ICS carbons and longer inserts that provide excellent extra reinforcement against snapping and great head alignment in an American made product.

I keep recalling some old fable about the king's new clothes......8^)

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