Billy/Nanny any difference?
Mountain Goat
Just a quick question I want to throw out there for opinion. I have a goat tag in Utah in a unit that has some ancient nannys, and of course some very nice billys. My question is do I continue to pass easy kill opportunities on a nannys, in hopes a billy will work his way out of the impossible country, or do I whack a big pretty nanny and not think twice about it? I passed a nanny that would have been pushing 10 inches at 15 yards yesterday morning. I still have a month to hunt, but hope I don't regret it. What do you goat guru's think? Thanks!
All personal preference buddy. I can't tell you what you want. I think the big billies are just cool!! But some long horned nannys really can get big. But if and when I draw a tag. I will go after a billy and only a billy.
Im going after either now just have to be big. weather is killing me
Billy is the only way to go.
I say hunt for billys only until it gets later in the hunt and you need to fill the tag. Don't go home with tag soup, but don't shoot the first nanny you see just to get it done.
how different is a big naany from an average billy when looking at a mount
Any Photos of nanny and billy same area same time of year?
It all depends on what you want...
If its all about the experience of mountain goat hunting on dangerous cliffs then it doesn't matter which animal you kill...the memory will be similar.
If you are trophy hunter then the Billy is the only way to go...
If you are just looking for a nice mount... Then look at the coat more the his/her head gear
Good luck on your hunt and don't go home without a goat. Enjoy the mountains and what they will make you do to earn your trophy
I took a nanny that had 11 inch horns She makes P&Y
Billy's are bigger an size. I think fur is the biggest decided factor for me. A goat with nice long fur during a later season wins.
I think you made that choice when you passed the nanny at 15 yds.
When I draw a tag I won't pass on a 10" nanny at 15yds!
The coat of a goat is at least as important as the horns as far as trophy quality. The average person couldn't even tell the difference between a good goat and a huge one because there just isn't much difference. While a nanny's horns are thinner, they can be every bit as long as a billy's. No matter which you choose, either is likely to leap off the highest point in the vicinity and break their horns, seriously affecting the score anyway. How often are you going to be able to hunt goats? Choice seems obvious to me.
It's similar to Gemsbok, males may have thicker horns and females very long ones. True monster Billy's won't give you any doubt.
I shot a haired up Nanny here in CO with 9 1/8" horns and it scored 40 6/8".
You could shoot a WR class billy and it tumbles and snaps off a horn may miss book.
the real difference between two side by side on the wall, a big and an average, would not be striking.
and the reality is most guys will never have two side by side on the wall anyway so the difference is even less material
Thanks for the input and opinions guys, I feel good about the decision I made, and it gives me an excuse to keep on hunting. Headed back into thin air on Wednesday night through the weekend. Hope to get it done on a good looking goat, billy or nanny!
In our country i see 10" nannys every yr and 6 to 10 yrs old . Its getting harder to find 9" billys and when we do its a 2 yr old
what is the difference in body size
what is the difference in body size
I'd shoot whichever offered a sure shot and a decent chance of recovery. Goats live in brutal country, a sure shot on a big nanny is not to be taken lightly IMO. Goodluck, whatever you decide. Mike
I'd have taken that shot personally but it's all personal preference on what makes you happy.
A mature nanny in Colo's G4, G7, or G16 weighs around 120 lbs and a mature (5+ year old billy) weighs close to 300 lbs in th early fall. A nanny might have just as long of horns as billies but billies horns are generally 1" heavier at the bases all the way to the tips. Looking at past photos the top of the back on a mature billy is approximately 10" taller than a mature nanny.
You can practically see the hair on goats grow by the day in Sept through mid Oct so it may be worth waiting towards the end of your season. Billy's are the first to shed their scruff in late summer/early fall and the first to grow long hair. I've seen scruff on nannies all the way into mid October here in Colo.
With that said mtn goats are about the least understood and toughest to distinguish/judge of all North American animals. In fact, 90% of the hunters I've been with on their first scouting or hunting day don't know the difference between nannies and billies...say nothing for telling the difference between a 3 1/2 year old and a mature 5 1/2 year old billy....even though a mature billy likely out weighs an immature billy or mature nanny by 200 lbs!
Your personal choice and yout hunt...but a big brute of a Billy is the number one trophy in North Anerica my book.
Jims speaks wisely...but one thing I found out is there are at least two sub species of goat in Colorado. I heard a taxidermist call them 'mini's and 'maxis"...a five yearou old Mini Billy might weigh 120 and a five year old Billy Maxi might top 300. When I saw the Billy I got he was with two other Billys...at first look I thought it was a Nanny and two Kids he was that much bigger....
Back to your original question. Likely this will be your only goat tag...do what will make YOU happy and never look back
**** This is an Old thread from 2013******
How did it end up?
I dont think anyone i know would be able to tell the difference when the mount is hanging on my wall.. I wouldnt have passed on a big nanny at 15 yards
I found the results.
**** He got the 10" nanny *****
Nice looking goat
"...(5+ year old billy) weighs close to 300 lbs in th early fall."
That seems highly unlikely. An exceptional billy may reach 300 pounds. Average mature billy weights are from 150 - 225. Nannies, 120 - 160. That's from "A Beast the Color of Winter", by Chadwick, one of the best reference books on mountain goats.
The Colorado Billy I killed took the second from biggest taxidermy body and I had to extend his face two inches...not sure what he weighed but he was a toad..
The reason I said Colo's G4 G7, and G16 is that mature billies in those units are from strains that are larger than say G6. Colo goats were imported from several places...Alaska, BC, South Dakota, etc. A mature billy in G6 may only weigh 150 to 200 lbs. I'm not sure if nannies are also smaller in that unit than G7/G16? I can't remember where G6 goats came from but they are the mini version.
I've been on over a dozen goat hunts in G7/G16 and all billies that were 5+ year olds were magnum bodied. They were so large in body size that I could hardly drag or even roll them around without help. They were a lot heavier than any mature muley buck I've ever gotten and I'm sure most mature Colo muleys are around 200 lbs. If you look at the harvest reports there are hardly any mature billies in the 5+ age class left (don't live long enough) since the CPW started increasing tags and seasons. In fact, if you look at the harvest reports in G7 and G16 a high proportion of goats are nannies the past few years. You will have a tough time finding a 5+ year old billy in G7 or G16 anymore.
Most of the nannies I've seen in the same units I could pretty much throw over my back and pack out...there is no way I could do that with a mature billy! I have gobs of live photos and video of mtn goats taken over the years with nannies next to mature billies and the difference is not even close in G7 and G16. I was at Cabela's on the north end of Denver the other day and all billies there were minis or younger billies.
I'm not exactly sure which strain of goats is in the Utah unit you drew but I've seen some magnum bodied billies in photos shot in Utah. There may be several strains..especially if you are seeing 5+ year old billies that only weigh 150ish lbs. If you see a magnum bodied billy it will likely make your eyes bulge...they are huge!
Here's an example of a mature billy a buddy of mine got several years ago w/rifle. It's about the biggest bodied goat I have ever seen. What would you estimate the weight?
I haven't been on as many goat kills as Jims, but I have hunted G16 twice and spent a fair amount of time up there. On my hunt I killed a young billy in 2002. My wife killed a 5 1/2 year old billy last year. Her's was about the biggest goat I have seen in that unit, and I estimate the weight at about 200 pounds. Nor have I seen any goats that appeared to be twice the size of the average mature nannies. I won't even guess the weight of the one in the photo because those types of photos can be very misleading.
Also, P&Y score can be higher on younger, smaller bodied goats, so if that's what you're looking for, don't overlook younger goats. My 2 1/2 year old billy scored 43 2/8. My wife's 5 1/2 year old billy scored 42 0/8. Both were intact horns with no major deductions. Actually hers had 0 deductions, mine had 1/8. That's another reason they are so hard to field judge. If they're alone, body size can be difficult to judge, and horn size can only be judged in relation to body size/features. Older billies are also not always solitary. Her's was with a small group of other goats.
********** From Twinetickler's post **********
It says it was a 10 1/8" nanny
For reference regarding weight:
I shot my billy in G7 in 2012, he had 8.5 inch horns and was aged at 4.5 years by the DPW. My best guess is about 220 lb. We packed him out in one load. My buddy had all four quarters, and I had the cape (full body) and head along with my hunting gear. Both of our loads were around 90 lb.
Jims, I have looked at a lot of goats. I have never seen one as big or even close to the size of that beast in your picture. Mike
I thought I would add a few goat pics for those that are interested. This first photo is of what I consider a pair of "mature billies". Obviously they have short hair but I think you get the idea of body size.
This next picture is of a mature nanny with a yearling billy. As you can see there isn't a whole lot of difference in body size between the 2 but the nanny definitely has thinner horns. Even though this is a fairly mature nanny (you can faintly see the growth rings going quite a ways up her horns) her body size is a smaller than the largest bodied nannies in this area.
This picture is of a 3 1/2 year old billy on the left and mature billy on the right. It's evident that the mature billies body is larger and taller than the younger billy. Also note how the mature billy has a mule-like head in comparison to the short stubby younger billies head. The majority of billies left in G7 and G16 are the size of the billy on the left....it takes 5 1/2 years before they mature and have bodies similar to the billy on the right (in these units).
The next few photos of other mature billies found in these units.
This is an old nanny with scruffy hair in July. Some guys seem to think that nannys don't have glands behind their horns. This photo shows that they do!
In the summer months is a good time to get up close and personal with goats. I try to get as close as I can possibly can get. It's then possible to get out my binoculars and count rings. It also helps to take photos and video of them at close range so you can take them back home and look them over in detail. This is about a 4 1/2 year old billy. You can tell he has a stubby head compared to the mature billies in the other photos. Some units in Colo produce billies similar to this and don't have the genes for the mule headed, large bodied billies.
This is one of my favorite billies I watched for several years. A buddy of mine finally drew a tag for the unit and ended up harvesting him. He was one of the few billies in Colo to make B&C (there are only about a dozen). Those that are familiar with British Columbia goats know what MASS is on a mature billy!
Five and a half year old Colorado Billy
The mature Mulehead Jim was talking about
That's a rolly-polly billy...congrats!
Here is a 6 year old billy that we got last week. Brody is 11 years old and a friend of the family who wanted to start hunting so I let him shoot my goat tag that I drew.
I shot two G7 billies, both 6 years old in 1979 and 1991 respectively. One weighed about 120#s live estimated and the other about double that. The back rugs verify the size difference but are in my Colorado home so I can't measure them. The interesting thing is they were both just over 9" and one scored 46-2/8" and the smaller one scored 46". Bigger body and head did not translate to larger horns in this case. Mini and maxi goats from the same unit.........about 2 miles apart for the kill sites. The mini goat in 1979!had a maxi with him that was several inches smaller in P&Y score. I chose the mini that day.
Neither were very tender! Hamburger grinder and crock pot are your friend.
Our BC goats are definitely the maxi strain as far as I can tell. Haven't hunted them up here though.
