Contributors to this thread:
I am about to order a Kifaru 12 man tipi and large stove. I have two questions for those of you who have experience with these. First, is white or coyote brown better? Part of me thinks brown because of dir and part of me thinks white for enhanced light transmission.
Second, how crucial is having a liner?
All advice and opinions are welcome and appreciated.
The color is up to the individual. I like brown. Shows less dirt and blends in better. But white does let more light in.
A liner is not nessesary for me. I live in Colorado (fairly dry environment) and I am not scared of a little condensation. Have never used a liner, and likely never will. If you are using the tipi in a really wet environment then you might want to have a liner. But a liner is Definitly not a need
I have an 8 man and large stove! I love Kifaru tipis!
No experience with the big 12 but before anyone can give you an accurate opinion about your question you need to describe your typical usage and what your tent will be used for.... Mike
8 man. Large stove
Once you camp in a Kifaru tipi...you will never want to go back to a "normal" tent.
November single digits. Kifaru 8 man and large stove
I will be using the tipi for backcountry hunting and camping. Primarily in western Montana.
Ermine, awesome pics! Is the first pic you posted a six man?
Thanks!
Ermine that last picture is incredibly cool.
+1 patdel! Definitely the best pic I've seen of a tent. Rally cool
In an area like the pacific Northwest a liner is a worthwhile investment
I have the 8 man and I think the liner is a must. I could never regulate the venting to stop the condensation. Even with the stove going it was still an issue. When I got the liner it was a non issue no matter the environment. Its the most comfortable back country shelter by far! Stand up room and heat in a compact lightweight package. I have a partner that says he now chooses his hunting friends by their having a Kifaru!
How does the tipi hold up to wind? Would you consider it sufficiently "bomb proof" for even the most extreme, potentially survival threatening conditions?
Ki-ke out- yea the tipi shape and it's effectiveness against wind is the reason for the tipi shape. There is no sides for wind to catch.
I have camped in some hellacious winds. As long at the ground pegs hold the tipi will standup to it.
Preston Lay - what part of the country were you using your tipi in? In Montana, we are not as dry as Colorado, but it's not usually super humid like the south or Midwest either.
The liner for the 12 man is another $453. I'm already going to be spending north of $2k. I'd rather not drop the extra $$ unless the liner is a must have in wet weather. If it's going to rain inside while it's raining outside, I think I'll go ahead and spring for the liner. Nothing would be more aggravating than spending that kind of money and to still get wet.
Any more opinions on brown vs white?
Thanks!
Although...whew...the liners sure seem overpriced now, I'd argue that the issue isn't so much the humidity but the amount of moisture in and on the ground. Even if you shovel snow down to bare dirt here in MT you'll still be drawing moisture from the ground resulting in condensation. That can be managed to some extent by having a sleeping bag with a water repellent finish.
Regarding color, the brown can be a roaster on a warm day if your camp is in the open and your routine includes a mid-day nap. And you may save a little more battery life on your reading light with a white tipi if you're weathered in. But, really, it just seems like a personal preference rather than any big advantage of one over the other.
DJ - that sounds reasonable. I'm leaning toward the liner. Nothing wrecks a back country elk hunt like being wet and miserable. Sitting 15 miles from the trail head soaking wet you'd gladly drop $453 bucks to be dry and warm. At least I would. Been there and done that.
On longer solo hikes I'll often use a 3-man GoLite Hex fitted with a stove patch and that lacks any liner option. Even in that smaller space and lower ceiling it can take an entire weekend to really get ahead of the condensation with the stove during snow season. If I'm doing a shorter hike or ski and want the space of my 8-man Kifaru, I'll only carry half of the liner to save a little weight and put my sleeping bag on that side of the tipi. If more than myself I'll bring along the whole thing. I'm assuming they're still making a 2-piece liner.
You want the liner. I hunted out of a 6 man this year without a liner . I think a liner in MT is a must. HUNT
I must be in the minority as I do not normally need the liner. I have used it on occasion, but the vast majority of the time do not.
I think I just prefer the look of the brown in the woods vs the white, can't say either is a deal breaker for me though.
Thanks HUNT, I thought I remembered you telling me that but I wasn't sure. To me, it is not worth the risk to go without it. I really appreciate the input. What color was the one you used?
Also, the 8 man looks a little tight for 3 guys. Is that just the pic or is it pretty close quarters for three guys and their gear? I am guessing the 12 would be plenty big for 3-4 guys and their stuff.
Anybody use a 12 man before?
I don't use a liner with my 6-man, either.
And last year's elk season was WET ... rained just about every day.
There was some condensation ... but nothing horrible.
My experience is that the 8-man is fine for three and gear but no more. I've been in a 12 and that seems like overkill for three if you're carrying it on your back.
Go to the Kifaru website, and ask if anyone is near you. I'll bet you get an invite to see how it works in real life, and then, you can make up your own mind. I have a paratipi and an 8 man...don't need the liner but ymmv.
Nothing like firing up that stove when it is cold out.
8 man is perfect for 3-4 with gear in my opinion.
12 man is a palace for a couple of guys. Comfortable for 6
I'll be packing it in on a horse so I'd rather err on the big side. Really appreciate the feedback.
The idea of having a warm, dry shelter is just so appealing. Plus, it will open up more time I can bring my wife. She doesn't like to be cold, but she did say if we had a wood stove she would be more likely to go in the spring and fall. As it stands now, she's a fair weather camper to the max.
The weather changes so quick in the Bob sometimes, it will be pretty nice to have a warm place to get out of the weather. Last year, I spent 8 days huddled around a camp fire under a tarp strung between two trees while it rained and snowed the entire time. We hunted every day but were cold and wet the whole time. Never again.
What happens when it rains? Does the water ever get under the tipi?
Bugs?
Really interested in these.
Thanks
Julius K
I've got a 6-man ... and pack it on horses most of the time ... and I've been thinking, like you, to "go bigger".
The only problem with "bigger" is that the big ones really have a large footprint. And that's not a huge issue -- depends on where you are.
Bugs? I don't know ... I've never really had that trouble. And we've been in some serious mosquito areas. They just don't like the tipi, I guess. Oh, my wife has put down some chemical defense from time to time, but other times not, and I can't tell the difference.
Water? Well, I have had a "river run through it", but that was my fault, and even then, no biggie. Where I camped that night, no floor would've been safe!
Floorless has advantages ... boots and dogs, to name two of them. Spill a drink, or have your water bladder leak in the night ... no big deal. We really like the floorless design. I know others who don't ... but for us, it's great. About the only issue would be stickers, and I don't camp in sticker patches. Cactus can usually be "marked" to avoid them.
No floor is a huge plus to me for all the reasons John stated. I'm getting seriously pumped for spring bear in the backcountry!
I have used my tipi in Alaska and Colorado on several trips as well as Oklahoma. As has been mentioned as long as the bottom pegs are in the ground good it takes tornado like winds to knock it down. I know I've been through 50 mph winds and it help up just fine, even with the center pole bowing badly. I was skeptical of floorless but as John said its a benefit in the end. No fuss with wet/muddy boots. I do place a ground cloth under the sleep pad. Its very uncommon to fly by floatplane in remote wilderness and have home like comfort with heat! The 8 man would be a good fit for two people on horse back considering all your gear can be comfortably stored inside.
Floorless is the only way to go! Water and bugs are a non issue. I've had more bugs in a regular tent then any Kifaru shelter. I'm guessing because bugs could get out easier.
I have camped in some torential down pours and never had a problem with water. As long as you don't pitch in a depression water won't be an issue. In a heavy rain water will soak in a few inches. But it soaks into the ground.
Right, Ermine!
At least the bugs can get OUT of my tipi!
Bob,
I've used the tipis in almost all the Western states (without a liner) and there's a couple times where I was thinking "what was I thinking not brining a liner", but that's a few trips out of MANY.
We hunted moose for almost 30 days in North Idaho and the weather sucked for 29 of them! Out of those 29, the first couple we're pretty bad as it took that long for the ground to dry out and lower the condensation level on the inside.
So I think you'd be fine without a liner, but after using it a few times you'll be able to decide for yourself if the extra weight and $ are worth it. I work for Kifaru, and don't bring one very often, but everyone is different and different areas have different challenges.
Feel free to call me if you wanna BS about your options.
720-937-1418
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You cannot beat a heated shelter after hunting hard all day in a cold and wet environment.If you are carrying camp in on horses than defiantly go bigger.If trying to please your wife,get a liner.Being spritzed with condensation when the wind blows against the tent will not kill anyone BUT an unhappy wife will surely kill the trip! Tim
Bob, I would defiantly go with the 12 man if you are horse packing. I used mine on an Alaska hunt in 2004 and 4 of us fit in there just fine. The “old’ guys got to use their little cots and us “youngster” slept on the ground. Most of my hunting trips only have two of us. The 12 man has room for two cots, cooking area, firewood and two folding chairs. Plenty of room for martinis and extra chairs when we get visitors. As you can tell it has turned into a base camp for me. I bought a liner just for the Alaska trip and it was worth it. I have maybe used it three times since then. I live in Southern Idaho and primarily use the teepee for family camping in the summer and late season (November) deer or elk hunts. I have had a number of Colorado friends move to NW Montana but most of them bailed within a few years due to the lack of sun in the fall and winter. A liner may be a good investment in NW Montana. Poke around on the internet if you’re concerned about shelling out for a liner, I bet there are plenty of them, like mine, that haven’t been used in years. Wind- they holdup great but they are not bomb proof. I pitched the tepee in an exposed spot with a great view in AK and ended up with a collapsed tepee. The wind did sound like jet engines coming in; I have no idea just how strong they were. Here is the good news-I had the tepee staked out with tundra pegs and they weren’t going anywhere. Rather than the fabric shredding the center pole failed (as designed for snow) we regrouped in the morning and moved to a more sheltered area and continued our hunt. I have had my tepee for at least 10 years possibly 12 and have used it regularly, there has been some wear but it is as functional as the day I bought it.
et
For a base camp or Horseback/fly in style hunt... Always go bigger. If there is a chance you will backpack with it some, be reasonable. We hunted 3 guys in an 8 man for a week on POW bear hunting... I couldn't imagine NOT having the liner with the amount of moisture we experienced. Plenty of room for 3 guys, the stove, a small stack of wood, and gear. We did string up a tarp beside it to be able to hang out under mid day and cook under.
Unless its a torrential downpour of rain or snow, I can't imagine staying INSIDE the shelter during the day. Mid day naps on a sunny day are definitely best enjoyed outside!
If you will ever have 4+ people do the 12 man. If you ever plan to backpack with 3 or less go 8 man. We used 8 man with 3 guys even when we didn't have to backpack and had plenty of room.
I will be purchasing the 8 man myself in the next year or two.
Well, I for sure won't be backpacking with it. I gave that up years ago when I got horses! I'll be giving Aron a call within the next few days to discuss further.
It seems to me that the guys who say you don't need a liner say you can get by without one and the guys who do say you need a liner are pretty emphatic about it. There doesn't really seem to be any general consensus and I may order one without and then try it a few times and order one later if I feel I need it. My nature is better be safe than sorry, so I'll probably end up with one.
I'll do a little more thinking and listen for some more opinions as well. I know Aron is an expert so what he says does carry some weight.
I really appreciate everyone taking time to help me out. One thing is for certain, everyone who has one likes it. I know I'm going to be glad I got one in the end.
Get the liner. You won't regret it.
I agree that you wouldn't regret buying the liner, but you can get by without one in some places.
I'm probably a bit more use to suffering then others as well, so that's something to consider when taking my advice too.
Either way, I look forward to chatting with you!
I think Aron hit the nail on the head with that last post.
No one NEEDS a liner. But for 3 guys splitting the weight, or better yet a horse or combustion engine doing ALL the work for you... a liner is a no brainer.
You will be willing to pay triple that $450 for a liner when sitting on a cold rainy 30* hillside getting spattered in the face with condensation drops as you are weathered in for 2 days. lol A kifaru tipi is literally an investment that will last decades and still hold 1/3 to 1/2 its value at that point. Don't sweat the upfront cost, it pays itself off in the end.
But as he eluded to, he's much more into suffering than me. I'm a nancy when it comes to having comfort when it is possible.
12 man is nice for 3 guys especially with horses. You won't regret buying the liner.
Just don't set up in the dark with a cattle trail running through the middle! Especially if there is a chance of rain! We caught our camp shoes floating down stream a few times!
White 8-Man for me. Plenty of luxury for 2 guys x 12+ days. We had 4 guys in it for a couple nights last September. I like the light-penetration qualities of white silnylon. I wouldn't buy a brown one for myself; at least if I had a choice I wouldn't. My tipi is equipped with a new Medium Highwall Oval (stove) from Kifaru and it's definitely the class of the UL woodburner scene. When the going gets tough, the tough warm up before going.
I depend on a liner and that's not optional for me in Alaska. My biggest problem is driving something like 18 stakes and not having 6 or more of them hit rocks or tree roots and stop moving. Given the setup effort, it's not really feasible to yank all the stakes and start over. I wish I could devise a system to deal with those loops that have roots or rocks under them.
I was looking at the weights of these(higher than I thought), is it practical for a solo backpacker to haul one in through the mountains and how packable are the stoves? Can a couple guys haul the Tipi and stove along with all your other necessary gear or is this more of a horseback option only.
Depends what shelter you are talking about. The Kifaru supertarp weighs 16 oz
The sawtooth is a prefect shelter for 1 or 2 and weighs 4 pounds I believe.
The bigger tipis are heavier but can sleep lots of people. Can split the weight up between multiple people.
As others have mentioned, the size of tipi you pack in will depend on how many guys are going with you. It's not uncommon for a group of 4 guys to pack in a 12 man tipi and large stove for late season hunts.
If you're looking at going solo or with a buddy, the Megatarp, Supertarp, 4 man or Sawtooth are all great options for this.
I pack in a 4 man and Sawtooth all the time on solo winter/spring trips, but when going really light I will bring a Megatarp or Supertarp and stove.
With a Supertarp/Megatarp and small Oval stove I'm under 4lbs with stove and shelter. That's a pretty hard combo to beat when you think about what you're getting, as I can be in single digits outside, but in the high 60's-70's on the inside.
Here's a few photo's from our last shed hunting trips. We backpacked in with multiple tipis and stoves for these trips, as the temps get into the single digits at night.
Awesome pics Aron! Thanks again for all the help. Mine gets shipped the 21st of May and I can't wait.
What size tipis are those in the shed hunting pics?
Those are 4 and 8 man tipis.
Bobs forest what color did you pick???
I got the coyote brown. I just thought it would show less dirt and blend in with the landscape better. Not great reasons, but that's what I chose. Really looking forward to back country spring bear hunting here in a couple weeks. Spot and stalk, going in with the horses and planning to enjoy myself as much as I can!
Awesome! I like the coyote brown. But hey white looks great too.
You will enjoy it on your spring bear hunt I'm sure!
