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I believe there may be 50 of each.

You may want to enter NH and VT as well. Long odds, but you never know. VT has both a General Sesson and an Archery Season Lottery.

There is not a reason to wait to shoot a moose. Newfoundland is doable every 1-5 years pending your financial situation.

It also happens to be an amazing experience as it's nothing like you have seen before.

Lotteries are more about beating the odds vs. hunting. Even if you do draw a tag it's not like its free - you are still spending about half the cost of a NL hunt but waiting much longer to do it.

IF you can afford to go to NF int he mean time, go. I am sure you would not be disapointed.

However, don't stop applying in Maine. IF you have 22 points, you have a darn good chance right now.

Check out some of the outfitters pages and look at the quality of the animals. P&Y is absolutely attainable DIY.

Can you post a link regarding New Brunswick change? I don't see anything about that on the NB Moose Lottery page. I also don't understand the point since all nonresidents need a guide in NB.

Thanks

Unless you're staunchly a DIY hunter.

Some people can afford to pay for guided hunts but won't do it because that's not how they like to hunt. In this case, putting in for the Maine draw is a good option and the downside to applying is only a few bucks if you never draw.

"I also don't understand the point since all nonresidents need a guide in NB." Sean, The difference is that under the old system, if you drew a tag, you could choose any outfitter you wanted, and one of the reasons you might choose a particular one is price. There were 100 tags available to Non Residents. Now there are 50 such tags available. The other 50 go directly to outfitters. Do you think that those outfitters will charge the same as thy would have before? (Why wouldn't they charge more?) They have the tag to sell, and any hunter who wants that tag also has to buy their services.

I'm guessing those services will cost a premium from now on. Supply and demand in action. I'm guessing that the price goes up. Time will tell.

I am questioning whether that is true. Seems to me that the official NB website would say something about it and I can't find anything.

with a roughly 1:85 annual chance for NRs in maine one should never put their moose dreams in that tiny and torn basket. if it takes the average person 85 years to draw how long do you plan on living

it became a money grab vs. a reasonable lottery about 15 years ago, but the chances were always very tiny.

My best friend from college (NH res) drew in 7 years.

A guide buddy of mine had a client who drew in two years.

Lastly, you can buy a tag for 10-12 K through the auction.

You should keep in the lottery bou, it is a great hunt if you can get drawn.

Best

Julius K

the averages say that for every guy who draws in year one someone will now wait 169 years for their turn.

you could take two or three newfoundland hunts for one auction tag at 12K for the tag is only the tag, not hunt costs.

it is a great hunt if you can get drawn and the powerball is a great retriement vehicle if you can get drawn as well. my point is i would not wager the ranch on either lottery being the best way to meet your goals..............

i never liked the fact it was not perference point, but bonus chance, based. it always was based on random luck vs. rewarding those who pay and play consistently over time.

some would argue guys should NOT be able to draw in a year or two when others go lifetimes, and actually live in the state, and will never get to play.

but that model does not maximize income..............

it got exponentially more distastful when, in a play to drive income, they went to a "buy as many chances as you want (or close to it)" program. all that did was force guys to spend more to keep up with the other guys who where now trying to spend more to keep up with the other guys who where now trying to spend more to keep up with the other guys who where now trying to spend more to keep up with the other guys who where now trying to spend more to win.

it was basically bonus chance inflation and the real opportunity to draw did not increase .

I understand what your saying. But, in reality it is hard for anyone to draw, res or non res.

My step father drew his first after 27 years applying (as a res). Then this past fall he drew his second permit with 4 points.

Keep applying Bou. It's not a lot of coin to throw down. And you will draw eventually. The numbers of moose in the northern part of the state is crazy.

You would never be disappointed with hunt- if you draw. But, I agree, that until you do... it can be frustrating.

And get rid of the buy as many 10 pack chances that you want (I know there is a max)...but as Bou says this drives up their $ income.

I know some will knee-jerk react that it's unfair.

Well, if you put enough rules (no drawing for 10 years after drawing - for example) in place it will allow everyone to have a chance who REALLY wants to draw.

It would also allow you to plan on how long it will take to afford the hunt.

Does it leave the guy who lives below the average American income level out? Yes. That sucks and I wish everyone didn't have to worry about money.

This idea is NO different than going on vacation to Disney, Super Bowl or a cruise. You know the cost and you can either afford it or you save.

Just a different perspective.

Sean, I was just passing along what I have heard. There is an Outfitter from New Brunswick who posts here, and he talks about it as if it's a done deal. I'm pretty sure that means it's a done deal.

I am not trying to convince you or anyone else, just pass along what I heard. You are free to believe it or not.

The bottom line is that in places where a limited number of permits are issued, a person may never draw a tag... If a person doesn't want to pay for a hunt in Canada or Alaska, accept the fact that you may never get to hunt moose. Yes, it's not cheap by any means but I see people throwing money at boats, 4-wheelers, campers, motorcycles, etc. so why not throw money at a hunt? I choose not to spend my money on any of that stuff. I'm not a rich man by any means.....just your average middle income American. I pick up a few bucks here and there on the side and stash it away for my hunting fun.

"Moose Application Information

Proposed number of permits to be issued in 2014: 4,085 - No more than 10% of the permits in each district will be issued to nonresidents. "

I disagree with your 1st point that the system should be a preference point system.

Preference point systems do NOT work in draws where there are not enough tags to go around and what always will end up happening is what's going on in CO's top tier elk units with run away point creep and what will be the case in WY in another 10-15 yrs. You have the people who started applying the first year and in some cases the first few years that the system went in, as the few who have a chance one day. Everyone else must start applying as a child to have a chance one day unless they want a tag when they're geriatric.

At 35, if I started putting in for CO elk unit 2 right now, with the current system and current point creep, I could very well be in my 70s before I drew a tag and would have zero chance of a tag before then.

In draw systems where there's not enough tags to go around, a BP system is the only way to go and it operates off the assumption that some people will NEVER draw. But that's how it has to be. If there's not enough tags to go around, then some people can't draw.

Look at MT's upper tier sheep units. Look at the ratio of how many people apply and how many tags there are. The only possibility is that some people will NEVER draw a tag. Slapping a PP system on that would just eventually cause the same thing. Personally, I don't want to hunt sheep when I'm in my 70s or 80s. I want a shot at them while I still have my legs and if I don't draw, then I don't draw.

I think Maine's system is great except that there should be an OIL exemption for NRs and the "buy as many tickets as you want" thing is stupid. If you wan't to pay to play, buy the auction tag.

Sage Buffalo, respectfully, I couldn't disagree with you more. The day we start down the "pay-to-play" tag system is the day that young hunters are priced out of hunting. Hunting should be for everyone, not just the old and well-to-do. There is more than enough opportunity for people with money to go buy themselves a hunt if they want to hunt right now... ala Canada or even AK.

Good luck to all however you pay to play

If they did cut the NR allocation back to 50 in the random draw, I am out. With $40 for 1 in 40 odds for a 3 day hunt where you have to use a guide, I would rather buy more chances for ME. I suspect others will feel the same.

Thanks

Wouldn't doing so likely result in fewer Non-resident applications?

I imagine that the government officials involved are probably saying amongst themselves something like: "Well We still offer the same number of Nonresident tags, we just shifted how they are distributed, no need to put it up there for all to see and dissuade people from applying, besides it was just approved and it's too late to make all those difficult technical changes".

Your reaction (choosing not to apply), is likely to be the same as many others (including me by the way). It's not bad marketing, it's actually pretty smart, just not maybe totally above board.

New Brunswick is an amazing place, and the people are some of the nicest you will ever meet. But the Canadian Government is still a Government, with all that implies.

The change is in effect. TSI is obviously in a position to know. I merely posted about it to inform you, so you can do what makes sense for you.

In the mean time I booked a Newfoundland hunt.Found 3 other guys to share travel expenses.Went to Newfoundland and shot a nice bull.

What are you waiting for??? Excuses of why you can't afford it, won't get you there.You only live once and IF it's really your dream MAKE IT HAPPEN!!!

Now the most recent changes significantly increase long term applicants' odds. But few here seem to actually care about math. Its just a Lottery..........no guarantees at all. never have been and never will be.

After so many applications, you build up so many points; there is no need to purchase more chances. Its just the reality of math.

So this reduction in total tags does reduce the current odds in the short term, but in long term it increases them. Meaning maintaining a viable herd ensures longevity.

In past years, if you check my posts; I have always did a what if the tags were reduced because of herd management. I think few listened because it has never occurred like this before. The total tags in the lottery have always been the biggest odd factor. So at least nobody can say they were never warned about it.

MoneyGrab.........wish somebody would explain this to me. Yes its a cash generator, no different than any other state's prized wildlife. Have you check the state of IL's non resident fee rate. But the money is used within the department to provide more hunting and fishing opportunities. Everybody makes it sound like the money is being taken out and Maine's Moose hunting is in a state of decline.

I do feel sad for those who dropped out and lost their points when the progressive bonus points change. That is like waking up the morning and seeing your usual lottery numbers won, but you did not play that week.

Bottomline everybody just needs to decide for themselves and online applications are due by the 15th.

You picked a bad example here. And you might want to do more research. Rod Blagojavich raided ILDNR's cofers twice in 4 years, completely cleaning them out. He is our 3rd consecutive governor to be sitting in a federal penitentiary. The dollars you speak of funded politician's unsustainable high pension funds.

"MoneyGrab.........wish somebody would explain this to me. Yes its a cash generator, no different than any other state's prized wildlife. Have you check the state of Il's non resident fee rate? But money is used within the MDIFW department to provide more hunting and fishing opportunities. Everybody makes it sound like the money is being taken out and Maine's Moose hunting is in a state of decline."

I think most know about Illinois and Chicago's corruption. Rated 3rd most corrupt state and most corrupt city in the nation.

Again thanks for helping me clarify. Its appreciated.

You are 1,500 miles away,read a black and white text on line, and you have factual proof of how a bill was proposed? I never knew finding corruption was so easy. To me it seems if it was so easy to find, there would be less of it.

I does make me wonder why an Illinois resident is running all over the country fighting corruption, when they admit there is so much corruption in their own state. How many threads will I see in forums about your fight against corruption with the last 3 Illinois governors and the ILDNR ?

I do believe there is separate thread for the Maine law that will not affect a single tag this year. I am posting my comments there.

I will search for your corruption exploits and adventures in the IL forums and post any comments there.

Everybody has options. Apply or not apply? The Maine lottery or most New England lotteries are a cheap chance to stay in the game. The odds tend to be a statistical fog to many, but one has to be in it to have a chance.

The Canadian provinces also have great hunts. I do not see why both cannot be in one's plan.

If a Canadian hunt is $6,000, then one has to make their own personal financial considerations. However a Maine DIY for me is significantly less. Last year it was less than $2,000. This was for a party of 4 and included flight costs for one family member. No guide was needed, so not a cost. Did rent a house for the week, but the location was in WMD1. Hunt costs also include meat prep costs. It was a great time and location off the Allagash and I was just along for the ride. Nobody has a bad time in the Allagash hunting, canoeing , or whatever.

There are also many differences between all actual hunts. NB is 3 days, but think its been changed to 5 days. Maine's hunts are 6 days or in some WMD'S a whole month. Just one example of the many differences that exist other than straight costs.

The additional cost does bring with the guarantee of a tag. Completely different expectations based upon the money spent.

For $15 a year to me, is an easy decision to continue gaining free BP's. What is $15, one or two arrows? Use synthetic or dino oil in the next change? Raised white lettering on the new tires?

Yes I fight the corruption in Illinois as well as many other states, coast to coast. Let's just say the crooks I find remind me of my lazy entitlement minded ex wife. My hunting points are about the only thing the courts were powerless to steal from me, and give away, due to their inability to fund their unsustainable Johnson administration welfare policies. So I target who I can.

Utah is in fact king of hunting corruption, and I have relatives there, as well as Maine. I fight everywhere I see a need. Over that time I have received countless emails from legislators who thanked me for educating them in matters they were unfamiliar with, but yet had to vote on. They can't be an expert in every subject.

zim1 so I will look for those other threads about utah and illinois corruption.

Search the General, Utah & Arizona forums. Will go back to over 10 years.

This last one was an applicant since inception.

For those long time applicants, consider your strategy and a possible change.

Which Zone / Season will the hunt be in this year?

My best friend drew a Sept. Bull in Zone 2 after applying since the lottery inception also. We're getting mighty itchy to start scouting!

My other hunts been on have been in zone 1 or zone 2.

The most important thing to consider about zone one is where you can enter it. It has a significant river border and limitations on motorized vehicles usage within some sections.

Those not familiar with what zones mean. Its the most northern and western zone that borders quebec.

Zone 2 is a great location for a bull tag, you will enjoy that area.