Blood Tracking Dogs?
Equipment
I know that in some states the use of blood tracking dogs is not allowed, but anywhere where it is allowed, would you consider a blood tracking dog an essential part of any outfitters service? Just seems to make sense that where it is legal an outfitter would use them when the human tracking does not result in a recovery. I have yet to hunt out of my home state and have not yet used an outfitting service, so this really is just a question not some sort of issue that I had with an outfitter. What would be the reasons an outfitter would elect NOT to have a blood tracking dog if it were legal?
I have been with outfitters many times that have dogs, and some are incredible, I like the ones that use the dogs as last effort, I once hunted with a guy that was way over confident in his dogs and my son was hunting with a rifle the second my son shot the dog took out after the deer, I said the shot was bad and we should wait he said no problem my dog will find it, well we never found the deer for three days , he pushed him way to fast, but this was my only bad experience, most have been really good , It is neat to watch a well train dog.
Kansas game commission is discussing allowing the use of tracking dogs right now. Will probably go thru and be legal this fall.
Dog to be on leash at all times.
Only legal weapon for season can be used to dispatch animal.
Can track after dark, BUT no weapons.
All members in tracking group must have valid hunting license.
I like the Kansas law... But when in doubt - don't forget the spiders...
I love the tracking process and yes, I have used spiders and ants to help with the process, but nothing can beat a good dog. A dog can turn a tough tracking job into a 15 minute stroll. Outfitters who don't possess one are missing out on an asset and clients ought to be willing to tip when a dog is used in the recovery. Putting it into perspective, the best African tracker is considerably better than an average American tracker...a halfway good dog is considerably better than the African tracker. It is simply unbelievable in what they can do.
We have used one in our outfitting business for years
Absolutely a necessary tool for the business
We use Labradors as they are multi purpose dogs.
The one I have now will trail any blood we put her on. To date she has blood successfully blood trailed lots of deer, turkey, fox, hogs and bobcat.
Ours are trained for off leash.
All states should allow them even if they put lots of restrictions on the use of them. They are an incredible asset to any outfitter in my opinion
Spiders?...ants?...can you guys tell me more
Down heres in the south we have lots of night cridders that are still alive and active during the deer season. Some like the pigmy ants stay out until the temps get into the 50,s but I have seen the grandady spiders out near freezing. These ants and spiders will congregrate around blood and other fluids that leak out of wounded deer and can be very instrumental in the recovery of launch shot deer where there is little blood and the fluids are dark and match the color of leaves and other ground clutter. I brought this to the attention of other bowsiters a while back and an onslaught of ridicule followed. The were not ready for the (nextlevel) Info...it was too strong for them so I have learned to meter out next level stuff in small doses.
I have learned to meter out next level stuff in small doses.
TBM....while you are 'metering out' let's go over the 'piss bug' deal one more time.
TBM. It's really not next level stuff just stuff some hunters do not know or have not used due to colder climates that many hunt in that have no insects during a said hunting season
I guide on a ranch in South Texas and we've had to use tracking dogs in the past. The ranch ownerns don't own the dogs for a number of reasons: namely cost, time, and generally little need for them. They are, however, in agreement with a man not far away that has a service for tracking wounded deer on ranches. He runs black mouth curr mixes and they are impressive to watch. If bone is hit, they'll find the deer.
As an aside, they tracked up to a leg shot the year before last and the lead curr dog tackeled the buck and backed off. This happened 3 times before the tracker finished the buck off.
It's not about having your own dog. It's about having access to the right dog. That being said, I think the guy charges $400 and is pretty much on call 24/7.
I need to get a dog to track blood, seeing as how I'm color blind. Haha. Me tracking a blood trail requires me to get down on the ground and keep my eyes about 6" off the ground. And even then it's not a for sure thing.
I think any body that has a dog should train them for blood.My dogs always went out to retrieve my deer,since 95.getting them liking blood is easy. I always gutted near the house and the dogs would drink the blood like water. Skinning and butchering ,the dogs got a bunch of meat. The best tracker was a blue healer,he couldn't run but a pleasure to watch The next was a Newfoundlander / rhinehimmer he was a high and low scented .i start up the gator she would run in from ,high scenting than as soon as she caught the scent she would race in. The recovery were quick. I used the dogs for deer,bear,duck geese and wild turkey. I have a Siberian husky/ coyote,she's three and hunts in the blind with me.she the only dog that likes bear .meat.
Unfortunately we can't use dogs for blood tracking here in AZ. There are actually a few states that don't allow it.
I have my own . I try to let him bloodtrail each time I kill whether I need to or not. Keeps him sharp. He is only 4 1/2 yr. old and has found several deer and hogs. Some of them were easy, but a couple were not. He's a natural. Rough coat Jack Russell Terrier.
SixO, according to the info put out by the KDWPT, about two dozen states allow the use of dogs. Most of them in the eastern half of the U.S. Some states require registration, licenses, so on.
Don't think it would be bad, IF controlled. As I get older, I have some problems at times seeing blood.
Clutch,
Sunny was that "once in a lifetime" dog! She was amazing!
TMB,
I'll have to disagree on the African tracker vs dog I've seen trackers do some AMAZING things!! It takes a special dog to beat them!
Molly is a 9 month old Bavarian Mountain Hound and born to track. She is amazing on 4oz of blood and a small chunk of hide drug and bounced for 4-600yds. Follows what cannot be seen like it was a painted line. Can't wait until fall to get her the opportunity to find some deer.
They are kind of rare in the states but if you can find one - they can find anything that bleeds.
Where legal for an outfitter, yes I would say essential. For an individual, probably not.
There are things to consider besides recovering the animal. To start with, dogs cannot read posted signs. Therefore, it is hard to make them stop when they reach the edge of your property unless you work them on a line. Mine will come and leave the trail when I call her. Not all of them will.
Another consideration especially for an outfitter is the disturbance to an area when a dog is used. Under some circumstances, when a dog is used in recovery, that area is unhuntable for a time after. Mine does not bark until she has found the animal. Some bark on trail. And then, there is expense in obtaining and training. Not all dogs will work a blood trail exclusively and not all are easily trained it takes some work.
But one thing is true. If the animal is severely wounded, a dog increases the recovery tremendously.
To me the word essential means that I would not consider hunting with an outfitter that didn't use tracking dogs. So if I take the original posters question literally my answer would be no it is not essential my booking decision. Would be a nice benefit however
NYS allows the use of dogs by a trained tracker whi I believe to be licensed.
Dogs must be leashed.
The licensed tracker can dispatch the wounded animal with a gun (usually a handgun).
I wounded a nice buck, liver hit. Waited 4 hours and began tracking. Never recovered the buck. During the tracking, called Deer Search for a dog team. They were all out as 1) it was a rut bowhunting weekend and 2) i was "far" away from any of their teams. Told me that if I had waited 8 hours, the buck would have been dead in his first bed or very near; by waiting only 4 hours, 50% of deer are found dead, the other 50% are not dead and are pushed and not likely to be recovered without a dog.
Live & learn....
>>>>-------->
Bridger has found 16 deer and 4 bear. This is his biggest buck 160 and a little bit.
I should have added that if you're going to train your dog to track get the book "Tracking Dogs for finding Wounded Deer".
It has great ideas on how to train, but probably the best is the name of a chemical that you can put in blood so it won't coagulate. Really helps when putting out a trail.
It's a great read.
Bowmania
Oh, and yes, Bridger is named after Jim Bridger.
If not used as another avenue for trespass I am neutral about it. I will not require the services of a dog for my hunting. If it passes in KS. I anticipate it will create further trespass issues. We have vague laws now and cannot get any real deterrent type laws passed as is. Last thing we need is more of a circus with dogs and handlers.
Absolutely a gorgeous photo bowmaniac!!!! Love the scenery , the bow, the camo, the hat , and especially the smiles. ..yours, the dogs,....and yes, even the deer is smiling.
We are fortunate to have JayG in camp!!!!
He is the single best tracker I have ever met in my life!
Even if your lab is not trained you can just take them downwind of cover and if they smell blood they go to it out of curiosity.
BMP needed a leopard dog a short time ago.
I guess when I used the word "essential" in my original post, I was more thinking in terms of the owner of the outfitting business as a business man/woman and was more or less looking for reasons that I can not possibly think of as to why any outfitter would not have a blood tracking dog? I would always hope my shots are good and recovery is quick, but we also all know this does not always happen, so when there is a bad but still fatal shot, if you are an outfitter and have a dog...the clients gets the animal, is happy and business is good. My question came about as a result of reading a thread about an amazing hunt that did not result in a recovery but there was plenty of blood and it seems a dog would have resulted in a recovery. So I was just curious??
nice dog bushbow My little Rudi about 20 weeks he found the arrow then ran into the timber to find the deer , I couldn't find any blood on the ground !!! Rudi is usually in the rig while im hunting
all whitetails outfitters are nuts not to have a dog less impact on the woods better chance with a dog then 3 aimless hunters .
Like a sore peter,can t beat it.
I looked at this for a while. When I investigated game tracking dogs the one that always came up was the little wire haired weiner dogs. Never got one but they came with great reviews and low maintenance and a good family dog to boot. Bob.
Years ago I brought up the very topic to number of outfitters on the Ontario hunting sites.. Lol,they thought the dogs would make the bears stop hitting the bait.silly I know. Brent
I've got 2 of the wire haired dachsundss. They aren't needed much, but when they are, they save a ton of time and they have far less of an impact on an area than a desperate grid search.
I don't think they are an essential part of an outfitters service but ithey sure are a nice tool for them to have available.
A good hunter/tracker working with a good TRAINED tracking dog can be terrific in retrieval especially in 300 acres of prairie grass or swamp. If you don't have both I'd take the human tracker with 35 years experience.
Teckels or Daschunds w Euro blood lines are exceptional trackers, low impact as they are little and make great pets but by nature have a much higher prey drive and eat all things like cats and such. My reason for the Bavarian is they are a little less on the prey drive and can go visit my sister w/o eating her cat. That and they are the bench mark for blood tracking wounded game and not so squatty.
Teckel was my second choice but this little girl just kind of fell into my lap out of the blue. I will say she is mouthy and like to chew things!! I have gone through a lot of shoes in the past few months.
Charlie R. It looks like your dog claimed that deer for him/her self. Haha. Good picture!
The only thing my dog can track is his next bowl of food. Hehe.
I will be receiving my first Teckel or Daschund pup in mid October--she will be coming from Ca. with great tracking genetics and direct descendents from Germany-- can't wait to start working this pup--I have frozen since last season blood, guts, hide, legs etc -- can't wait-- anyone has suggestions with this breed please PM--:-)
I have had two golden retrievers and I can't imagine there being a better tracking dog than the one I hve now. I don't use her on a leash and she will wait on us to keep up or come back to us if she gets too far ahead. If the deer is not hurt she will not follow it at all, but if mortally wounded she will follow it until she finds it. I use a lighted collar on her at nite and I have a noise emitting bird dog collar for day time.
Great point about the Euro bloodline Dachshund's prey drive and something for new owners to be aware of. Mine go absolutely ballistic over ANY animal. Squirrels, rabbits, groundhogs, snakes, mice, raccoons, skunks, possums etc. etc. Despite their small size they are absolutely fearless, and have an unbelievable level of determination. It can make for some interesting situations.
My 9 year old best friend Fred. I would rather have Fred find someone's deer than to shoot one myself.
These Euro Daschunds were bred to go in Badger holes n pull or flush out--short legs n long body--They got Balls-- I have trained my labs n hounds myself n looking forward to this Pup
I have had good luck with my Catahoula.
He is a little bit strong willed and wants to be the pack leader. I just have to remind him that he works for me and he straightens right out. (Shock collar....zap).
to answer your queston,outfitter not having a blood tracking dog where legal. some people are not dog lovers, and more are not dog handlers. I have had a blood trailing dog sence around 1970,drahthaars sence 1980. their is no human alive in this world that can track as good as a GOOD DOG.Forrest
It's a wise hunter that takes the time to train their dog.They make a hunter look good. Congrats guys for your hard working buddies. Brent
I have a lab and a wiener dog. Best of both worlds. They both track, but the wiener dog is going to be a good one. Have to be on a leash in Montana. HUNT
Steke, looks like you have all the ingrediants there for an excellent under-the-porch adventure!
Charlie that dogs looks like my dog when he finds a kill !!!!! The German hotdogs pack a bunch for such a small size dog. I can put my face in his food bowl but once he claims a kill look out he turns into a Tasmania devil !!!!they can be thick headed it seems they never want to give up on the trail love to eat . Makes a great travel buddy for a lone bowhunter!! They love blood it seems !!!!
It is a wise hunter who takes the time to learn to shoot thus eliminating the need for a dog.
Its a wise hunter takes the time to learn to shoot funny stuff there !!!!!Hale ive hit elk/deer perfect yet lacked a good blood trail my dog will track in any weather rain will only help !!! What you going to do when your blood trail washes away or gets covered in snow ??
It will not involve making use of a pooch. Period.
Steke - I just love that pic that you posted. I can only imagine the story that goes with it. Your little warrior seems to be pleased as punch with the outcome! Everything laying there makes sense - except for the binos... How do they fit into that adventure?
BTW - good thinking with that mirror.
cityhunter, Iam with you ,R.Hale has a lot tolearn about bow hunting. TRACKING. Forrest
R. Hale what do you have against dogs ? Are you allergic ? Did you get caught with a jar of peanutbutter and your neighbors dog ?
Not everyone is a "dog" person - some just cannot stand them and/or feel they are a problem and not a blessing. For this to work well the dog and handler have to be in concert. This is why it is suggested to get a pup and not a fully trained tracker - the dog and handler should grow together in the process.
I have always been a dog person(as many here are) and have always just owned rescue mutts that were destined for the death needle and just pals that hung out with me. It was not until Michigan legalized the use of tracking dogs that I began to research the idea of buying a breed specific dog.
Truth be told my Molly is very much over kill for the work she is going to get as most any dog, raised from a pup with a little training can follow a hot trail to a dead critter. It is their nature. Teckels, Bavarians and some others are bred to handle the worst case scenario with ease. Hard rain, deep snow, many hours between hit and track with certification requiring the use of 6oz of blood over 800yds after 24-48hours.
Most, if not all, of my tracks will be at most hours old so she should tackle them with ease. A good hound mix from a rescue shelter could do all that.
I just love the idea of incorporating my two greatest passions into one fun day - Bowhunting and dogs!!
If you are not into dogs this whole process will likely not be a good one but if you are and you do not plan to make this a profession just look at any puppy with a nose and get them following blood with big rewards of love and affection at the end of the line. They very likely will save the day at some point. And even if all your shots are perfect DBL lungers on blue bird days with flowing blood trails let them find those deer and enjoy the moments together.
It truly is an amazing site to see a dog work - especially when their only purpose in life is to please their handler. Dogs are awesome!!
Everything laying there makes sense - except for the binos... How do they fit into that adventure?
The porch is about 30 feet long. I wasn't exactly sure what she had cornered under there and the only way to see under is from the end. I initially tried to see what was going on with the flashlight and binos.
I met a guy from Florida several years ago that used a dachshund and claimed it had recovered over 70 deer and 2 turkeys. The most amazing recovery story was on one of the turkey recoverys. He told about a hen that flew after the shot. He put his dog where the hen was when the arrow hit and followed it for about 300 yards where it stopped and sat down, looking upward into the trees. He looked up to see the hen caught in some low limbs...dead.
I have seen dogs used as an excuse for trespass all my life. Does "my dog can't read" sound familiar? Or, "We moved to the country so our dogs have a place to run?" That statement always comes from the person who owns 5 acres. No thanks.
BTW, Drath, If I am not losing deer, which I am not, what do I have to learn? If you need a dog to recover, it is obvious to me what you have to learn.
R. Hale I see your point looking at it from that way . I have had the same thing done to me . Mostly coon hunters ,but I don't blame the dogs its the idiots that own the dogs I blame . I understand that not everybody is going to love dogs or even want one . A person that is truly a good loving pet owner will not use the dog as a excuse to trespass! There are a lot of people that should not even have animals because they cant even take care of them selves . A dog is mans best friend given the chance to . I know not every one has the compassion and brains to be a dog person and I respect the fact you are smart enough to know this R.Hale because some people try to fake it !
Venison, I actually like dogs. Raised and trained English setters for years. Had labs for duck hunting in my youth. Now have a yellow lab who is a pet. As you state, coon hunters have about turned me away from dog hunting. Fuzzy on this site has convinced me that not all hound hunters are drunken trespassers, but that is all I see locally. I just see much potential for abuse with another dog sport.
I live in KS and we have very ambiguous trespass laws. Last thing I want is more issues with this, groups of guys running around with dogs looking for allegedly wounded deer, the beer cans that come with most human trespass etc.
I can hear it now, "my dog is so good all you gotta do is get an arrow into the body and we will find it for you."
To loose one deer is too much. I almost lost one,rocky mistake. Not a drop of blood from the deer ,I search that night went to work,left easily and started again at first light and quit at noon. Went home picked up the dog and came back.He sniffed the two spots and started to track it back wards.realized after a little bit came back and walked to the deer .only about 50 yards away .buried under a wind fall and tall weeds.i don't know how many ,I walked by it.the only bad shot,I ever made and wackko save the day.I can't explained how sick I felt and wanted to quit bow hunting. Since that time he found lots of deer for other bow hunters,and made them really happy.He knew when a deer was ok and would quit tracking. Later in the year,I'd see them in the soya bean plot. my buddy killed and recovered it,three days later ,I wanted to see what he would do. I had a few questions for things wackko was doing. going to the spot where he loaded the bear first. how the bear left the trail to die,my buddy went the wrong way. Why he went down the hill. After three days,he picked up the right scent right away. I was shocked to. Hear the outfitters in Ontario talk about bow hunters for bears. Year after year,all the poor shot. They were stubborn too and thought a dog would ruin the bait site,lol.
A good dog adds enjoyment to the tracking experience whether the dog is really needed or not. A dog isn't needed to hunt rabbits, birds or ducks either but it sure is a lot more fun with one!
R. Hale Im glad you do like dogs and its to bad that people have trespassed on your place so much that you feel this way . I know how you feel ! I had coon drunks in my back yard 6o yds from my back door shooting back at my house at a coon with my wife in the house . I was watching them from 30 yds away ! The police showed up at my house a couple days later and said these coon drunks had 4 flat tires all I could say was must of been carma ! My grand father would shoot dogs but like I said I don't blame dogs its people !
Blood tracking dogs need to be different from other dogs because it is imperative that dog and handler stay in close proximity to one another. I can stop at the property line and just call mine off the track. A leash law for tracking puts all the responsibility on the Hunter and is no different than tracking without a dog.
In 2006 I had a young man with a bear hound find my bear . Bear only went 100yds and died no blood really . Fat was plugging hole . I love that hound !
R. Hale apparently shoots at deer that patiently wait for the arrow to arrive every time. I got my dog years ago to make sure that I had done everything possible to find deer that had been hit but I could not find. I never figured that tracking with the dog would surpass shooting the deer as part of my outdoor experience. I do generally use a lead but its primarily to protect the dog from cars, creeks, snakes, and humans in the woods with firearms.
lo,
One of the things I long ago realized is that the deer/dog tracking thing would and now has become a sport in itself. Also a business for some. Just a way to creep into the hunts of others. Like a dog that crawls under the table for scraps.
About the deer I shoot and guide to, since you brought it up. I think you may be correct, as they are all much older than the dink you show, might be slow as well. ;)
Actually it comes to that woodsmanship issue. Learning when to draw and when to shoot is the key, more so for a ground hunter. Sorry, cannot teach it on the 'net. You need to learn it yourself in the woods. No dog required.
I would love to have a good blood tracking dog even though I have ever only used a dog one time to find a deer.
In the case where I did use a dog I had what I thought was a questionable hit so I gave it 2 hours then put my German Shorthair Pointer on the blood trail (he had never done that before) an he followed it right to the Deer which was very close to where I had last seen it after the shot. Had to keep calling him back to keep him from getting to far ahead as I was blood trailing at the same time to be sure we were on the track. That dog seemed to just know what I wanted him to do and was the best dog I ever had.
" A leash law for tracking puts all the responsibility on the hunter and is no different than tracking without a dog "
Yeah, all but the part where he can smell the deer and I can't. I work mine on a quarter inch piece of nylon rope about thirty feet long with no knots ( so it doesn't catch on anything ) and I can drop it if he goes through a particularly nasty bit of cover and catch it on the other side.
R.HALE you live in kansas. shoot 1 deer a year maybe 2. not very many. wide open woods you can see a long ways. where I am from you are lucky to see 25 yards. my dog at present is 7 years old tracked over 200 deer hogs bobcat turkeys. many with no blood at all. she did a artfichal track that was 5 days old in mid august 100deg heat. point is with a good double lung shot you don't always have a blood trail. Forrest
norman great picture !!!
We have a local deer search they find many a lost deer for folks. I did get my NY LIC so I can legally track my game or others . Rhale happy Bday !!!!!
Rhale I think there is one or two guys that tracks for money !!! In NY not legal one would need a outfitters Lic to track for coin ! Rhale no matter what chittty day I have had its a pleasure to see my Rudi always happy go lucky type mood . When growing up I had a friend with a dog OHH how he loved that dog , he would tell me how his dog got him through some rough times with his mom passing, I thought he was nuts back then ,, but today I can see how Mans Best Friend can add to ones life !!! louis
Max has found a few but he still needs a little more work. The biggest problem he has is me.
TBM,
"Putting it into perspective, the best African tracker is considerably better than an average American tracker...a halfway good dog is considerably better than the African tracker. It is simply unbelievable in what they can do."
How much experience do you have hunting in Africa?
On what do you base the above quote to be comparing African trackers and tracking dogs?
Dogs can track a deer across concrete covered with 2 inches of water. Once the ripple is gone African trackers wouldn't have a chance if there wasn't a blood trail. Dogs don't care if there is blood or tracks or hair or anything visable...they use their nose. They can detect cancer undetable by any modern technology. They can smell cocaine in a vehical traveling 70 mph down the interstate and point out which vehical it in.
They can smell cocaine in a vehical traveling 70 mph down the interstate and point out which vehical it in.
Does that mean you have to use a pointer??
TBM,
You have once again avoided the questions ?
When did you hunt Africa?
When did you get experience working with African trackers?
exsanguinator- we've been outfitting hog hunts for over 14 years now and our most valuable asset has been our blood tracking jagdterrier, Sage. The use of a dog has reduced our wounding losses from 40% to approximately 5%. Sadly she's in renal failure now and is retired from tracking so we had to resort back to our weak human instincts and resultingly are recovering fewer hogs than we did when we employed her services.
After reading some of the comments above, I realize that there are still a few folks out there who are uneducated about how a blood tracking dog works. The dog is not used to "catch" or "chase" the wounded game, but rather to recover dead animals that otherwise may not be found by conventional methods. In my opinion, we owe it to ourselves and our quarry to use every option available to recover each animal we shoot. When a blood tracking dog is turned out on a track, it is trained to follow the scent of only that wounded animal, oftentimes running past other animals in the process. Most states require that the dogs be on a lead at all times, and no weapons may be carried. Trespass laws apply to people bloodtrailing whether they use a dog or not, and sadly there will always be lawbreakers out there, but to claim that somebody using a blood trailing dog is more likely to do so is simply preposterous.
Razorhead, I'm sorry to hear about your Rocky. We're at that stage now with Sage, that I cry every time I read about someone else's loss. Sage and I have been partners, spending many nights in the woods helping our guests locate their lost hogs and it will be like losing my right arm when we lose her. We will always have a blood trailing dog on the ranch, but I can't even think about getting another one while Sage is still with us. She devoted her life to helping us, and now it's our turn to repay her.
Here's a pic of her in her glory days with one of hundreds of hogs she's recovered for our hunters.
And it didn't matter what species we asked her to find. If it bled, she'd go look for it. She helped me recover a few dove that I lost when they fell into some briars that I couldn't get to. We never trained her to retrieve, but when I didn't come in after her, she figured it out on her own and brought them out one by one and spit them out at my feet. She sure didn't like those feathers on her tongue though!
I figured I'd try her on waterfowl too. This was her first water recovery. I'd show you the picture of her recovering a goose, but you can't tell there's a dog in the picture!
Oh, I forgot to add...that's a good looking dog Bushbow. Where did you get her from? I've been doing quite a bit of research on both the BMH and the Slovensky kopov, but both are quite rare here in the U.S.
Tradman and Huntress, very well said. I fell your pain about sage getting in bad health. Forrest
Blood tracking dogs? Really I remember going hunting with my father and uncles 40 plus years ago.no blood tracking dogs or trail cameras. 40 years later I still hunt the old fashion way, just scouting. Seems like hunting has become to commercialized. What happen to the good old days of hunting? Now it's outfitters, dogs and cameras.. That's cheating.. Wow...
I used a blood tracking dog once. I had a good hit but dark arrived and the blood was petering out. We found my deer in short order. The tracker said that I probably would have found the deer without his help. It seemed right to do. I am not ashamed to get help to recover game.
I've associated quite a few things with the "commercialization" of hunting, but tracking dogs is definitely a new one!
" That's cheating " WOW is right ! Wow that you would rather leave a dead animal in the woods than use a dog to recover it. I don't know how using a game cam or a tracking dog is seen as commercialism. I don't pay anyone and no one pays me to set cams or track deer.
Some places I hunt, I scout with binos, but at home where I deer hunt, there is no scouting without stinking up my place. It is much too thick to scout without blundering through the woods and making noise. Game cameras require a trip about every two weeks to go in , spend 2/3 minutes at each camera, and get out. I run them in a golf cart. No noise, little stink, very quick. Only 217 ac. and lots of trails to get around on. I already know where my deer bed, where they feed, and the trails they use. What I'm doing is " inventorying " more than scouting.
Besides being great at blood tracking Dogs make great buddies!!!!! Even Dan likes Dogs !!!!!!
I'm enjoying all of the pics! Here's a link to an article Pat wrote on blood trailing dogs thirteen years ago. This isn't something "new".
I enjoyed reading the old thread linked to that article to as we were going through the terrible teens with Sage at that time. I remember being so frustrated when she broke off a blood trail to chase trash (piglets) that I just tied her to a tree and kept tracking without her. She busted out of her harness and finished tracking the deer for me and never broke a trail again after that!
http://www.bowsite.org/bowsite/features/articles/trackingdogs/
If you think useing dogs for hunting is cheating, then you have never been on a true dog hunt. Dogs have been used for 1000's of years for hunting. Hell Most were breaded one way or another for hunting. HUNT
I made a statement that R.HALE probally only shoots one or two deer a year. but since then have learned through a p.m. from him he is quite a accomplished hunter. quote, hunted 5 continets, africa and had litterally thousands of kills. I was wrong. but I will always use my dog as long as I can owne one. Forrest
Damn cheryl and Matt that sucks about Sage. What a great companion she is. I know where you are coming from Cheryl. Old age in the dogs is incredibly hard, on us.
Hang in and make whatever time safe has left fun for her. Take her on a short track even if it is 5 feet
Dogs are our alternate souls.
God Bless guys.
My friend has this one dog.....
TBM... quit listening to those cops about why they pulled you over....
"R. Hale... had literally thousands of kills".
That would infer a minimum of 2000 kills, an average of 40 per year for 50 years. And apparently never loses an animal.
Replaces TBM as my new hero.
WOW even neg talk about mans best friend this just proves u cant make everybody happy !!!to each there own , There is a lady who owns some dogs that are used to recover bodies in lakes ponds etc , the dogs can smell the remains of a human body under water.
My boy say palmface for you Buffalo chips...you know no African can track with an average dog....it ain't happning
John's the best I know of....we in NY lost him to the Outfitters in the West. Amazing to watch. Nothing compares to his bloodhounds for a nose....nothing compares to the Shepard for strict obedience when it is needed.
SJJ yes his dog is tops not sure how u can control a hound of that size with a leash ?
TBM,
Thank you for your response to the questions presented to you. Your two normal response to a direct question(s) is either- (1) avoidance of the question or (2) some silly meaningless response. You selected response style #2 to the questions presented on this particular thread.
Truth is you have no African experience to back up your comments of comparing African trackers vs. blood trailing dogs.
I have been fortunate to hunt Africa and have spent quite a bit of time around African trackers either utilizing their tracking skills or learning from their experiences they have shared with me. I have also gained experience working with African tracking dogs as well as tracking dogs in North America.
I preface my response based on experience, not baseless comments. I have learned that both African trackers and blood trailing dogs have their place in the tracking process in the tracking of wounded game as well in the recovery of killed game. I do not believe there is "one-size-fits-all" response to the value of a tracking dog over an African tracker or vice-versa.
In the mean time TBM, please keep watching those old Tarzan movies so that you will gain more African knowledge and experience. I will continue to reread the first Thanksgiving story, so that I will become more knowledgeable about turkey hunting the way the Indians and pilgrims did it- Natural Setup or Bust.
I would love to hear the responses of other bowhunters who have actual experience with tracking dogs and African trackers.
I don't know about being super impressed with African trackers. Who knows, we Alabama trackers might have tracked up stuff and hey couldn't have in our enviorment. Besides , some of the stuff is just folklore because the writers who went over there needed to have something to write about....kind of like some guides get pumped up by writers...that is who they hunt with so that is whar that write about. Most folks would have followed me tracking and if they were honest would have no idea that I was tracking by ants and spiders instead of blood...if I would have told them and showed them I might have propelled with their pen above African trackers but I don't hob nob with writers so here I am, sharing it here and nobody has ever heard of it. I have been on some really impressive tracking jobs that took hours.....my dog could have followed the same track in 30 minutes.
Yeah...his hounds are "working dogs", big and strong. John doesn't really want people petting them, handling them or anything.....they're not cuddly pets.
I was talking to John this morning and he told me he is now training a Crow for tracking! I'm not kidding
TBM- "as good as any African tracker" in your mind. Another "undiscovered victim" chapter in your life. The legend of the unknown abilities of TBM continues.
We await the next revelation of greatness.
Where can we add some "more" tracking ability to this photo?...
Great job x-man...
Are the piss bugs and ants in the spider jar?
Where is his autograph pen?
Halo??
His being able to defy gravity allows for the bow to be upside down.
The spiders would eat the piss bugs and ants, so he keeps them in his shorts.
SJJ his dogs were called in Iowa on a gut shot deer over 200 dog found it asap whats the German Shepards for is that to keep the hounds in line ?
Well to the morons that's won't use a dog to track when needed, well you're a moron. If you make a bad hit and can't find what you shot, any dog on the ground is better than walking away without one last try.
And yes some guys do make it into a sport. So what? It's fun to watch a dog do good work. I bird hunt a lot, maybe 60 days a year and seeing a dog do their job is better then the kill. I wouldn't own a dog that didn't work.
It's illegal here in MN to use a dog to track.
Awesome talent X-Man!! Bowsite's very own caricaturist
I cannot understand why having a dog to track wounded game would not be allowed, after all reasonable efforts have been made and have come up short ...I appreciate states differ in their local laws, but it must be for the betterment of hunting that wounded or lost game is recovered
Killnstuff all dogs will wk for man !! What i have found when tracking for others is they lie about the shot and were they last walked ,,, Went to help a friends friend he hit a buck said good hit lied to me about were he tracked it too ,, My dog was going out and in then one way then another .Hunter had walked on the blood got it on his boots and walked all over the scene totally confusing a young dog in the night !!! Hunter complicated the situation big time !!!
Rudi in Az testing him in the dry arid conditions !!!
cityhunter, I find the same thing hunters lie about their hit. where they track, how far. it makes it a lot harder to recover. I had one guy where he gut shot a deer ,tracked and found the deer and he looked at me and said thats not my deer. about a 40 lbs doe. I said right my dog doesn't lie. Forrest
I am not the cartoonist. Just passing along someone else's talent. I don't even remember now who drew that, it's about a year old now.
Cityhunter outstanding point. If your going to use a dog use a dog and don't screw it up for him by walking all over the place and threw the blood. It's best to just pull out and let the dog start at the beginning. I pull my arrow and let my dog smell it and she knows which track to take. Doesn't matter how many deer she will have a mark in the right one. You and others have me wanting a wire hair....they are so cute.
Cityhunter outstanding point. If your going to use a dog use a dog and don't screw it up for him by walking all over the place and threw the blood. It's best to just pull out and let the dog start at the beginning. I pull my arrow and let my dog smell it and she knows which track to take. Doesn't matter how many deer she will have a mark in the right one. You and others have me wanting a wire hair....they are so cute.
City... the German Shepard is no slouch and John really favors her when very strict obedience is needed. He will tell you that nothing compares to the bloodhounds nose. Gut shot deer are of course easier due to all the scent. John has a very interesting gig in the West now...Drury's etc....all use him. The land he searches on is unbelievable. He has 5 dogs and a crow now. I think he has more dogs now because he is tracking like crazy everyday and they get hurt, tired etc....and he must rotate them for various reasons and situations. John's the real deal and for many years spent 3 months in the arctic in a Bivy tent with his Shepard guiding Caribou hunters. Anyone would enjoy watching a dog on a real difficult trail where he has to circle and come back and figure things out....it's amazing. And....at least with John you can say this deer isn't dead if you don't find it!
How the heck did I miss this thread?! I love my jagdterrier! I shot this one behind the shoulder not only to save meat but to also insure some "work"(50 yards) for Greta. My last terrier was a pet shop JRT with a nose that didn't work . He wouldn't swim or fetch. Greta's great at finding and fetching snipe that go down in the cattails. Not the softest mouth but then again she is a Jagdterrier.
LB, nothing like a good blood tracking dog. Forrest
I saw this thread again last night, not thinking I would be posting on it today. Sat over some corn this morning trying to kill one of two sows on my place. Shot one about 8:30 and got no shot reaction at all. Thought I had missed. Gun, not bow ( I don't call this hunting, it's more about protecting your investment ).
This hog didn't bleed until the last 10 yd. Really thick stuff. Finding this sucker would have been very difficult without Sarge. Not impossible, but much slower. When he gets on his back legs and starts pulling me along, I know we have something on the ground !
drycreek, good job. Forrest
