I find it odd that he waits until he's 92 to start cutting tress down in a hedge row. What s his reasoning behind it?
If they ask for a reason for the restraining order, tell them you need time to get the RPR and B12 results back to explain why anyone would be crazy enough to cut down 3/4 century old trees that run along a property line.
You need to call the cops if he starts cutting before you hear from a lawyer!
Anyway, my property description clearly states the legal description of the lot as recorded in around 1915 when the town was laid out. Plus, I had my property surveyed and recorded in the county courthouse for an addition I was doing prior to my now neighbor moving in. Consequently, they lost our fence-side "courtroom" discussion and it hasn't been an issue since.
I'm a Colorado lawyer, so I can't give you advice on KS law. But getting paid after the trees are gone is a crappy remedy.
I don't know what it is in your state but, I do know if the deeds call for those trees than they are boundaries that shouldn't be removed unless both parties agree to it. And only if they were replaced by other definitive markers on the line like a fence. You could then record an amendment in the courthouse showing this as the official line.
You need to find the line. Pull your deed and see what it calls for. Run the course with a compass if need be. Get an environmental lawyer's advice on your rights. And if he refuses to wait, inform him you intend to hold him liable if it turns out your right. Good luck and God Bless
It's expensive.
It's not anything you did to deserve it.
It's not a good situation to be in.
But you may be best talking with an attorney.
Any idea who wants to buy the property after the current owner is gone?
Sounds like someone may be trying to get him to pay for the fencing before they buy it?
I hate to see things like this and see it as a bad deal. But, when you live around other people, you have to deal with their actions whether good or bad. Same wit them. Deal with the barking dogs no one sees fit to train or pay attention to. And they gotta deal with you cutting wood etc... It takes an effort from those on the ground so to speak, and one that should be addressed individually not by attorneys. However, when you have that guy that makes no effort, you got two choices if talking with him hasn't gotten it done. One will find you looking through bars, and the other choice is to let him do whatever he wants with no regard to other people and their property.
I imagine the old fella can't see why anyone would want to keep fooling with these trees or he is doing like writer says in some capacity. He's had the ability to get rid of them for a long time it appears and choose not to for one reason or the other. Either way, I assume the OP talked with him before going the route of talking about it here. And if that old timer is getting everything ready for the next generation to replace him, at the cost of the OP's property, than he has no choice but to address it one way or the other. Apparently talking with him isn't working.
If the old man owns the trees, your outta luck. Find the line bud. It is easy to do if you'll pull your deed from the courthouse if you don't have your copy handy. God Bless
Why not be a good neighbor and not make a big deal out of him cleaning up the fence line as long as he doesn't leave a mess? It's a few trees on an old property line nothing more? There must be more to the story? Has there been bad dealings with this guy in the past? Did he rape your dog and burn your house down? I'm shocked by 2 things about this story. 1 is that you would get on the internet and ask strangers to tell you how to live YOUR LIFE. 2 is that you don't just try to work something out with your neighbor instead of paying LAWYERS and creating a fiasco over and old fence line. Somehow getting worked up over this "as you described it" issue seems trite and insincere. What happened to the days of old when a man looked a man in the eye and worked out their problems with a handshake? Mike
Are you kidding me?! Being a good neighbor isn't sitting back and being a wimp while someone destroys property that may well not even be his. If those trees are right on the line there is no way they will be able to be taken out without adjacent property damage even if they're his, and that is very doubtful from the description given by the OP!
Who said sit back? Maybe you have trouble with reading comprehension so I'll paste what I previously posted.
"What happened to the days of old when a man looked a man in the eye and worked out their problems with a handshake? Mike"
Pay particular attention to the phrase "looked a man in the eye".... Mike
He has full right to cut anything on his side
Consult a local attorney who deals in property sales and searches and disregard all other advice you may get on a hunting forum.
If you don't like my attitude now, start cutting the trees and see how much you like it then.
Never sure I've heard an attorney utter that "f-word," before!
Again, talk to the pros and good luck.
I completely understand why you're standing your ground. It ain't a lot of land to some people but it's all the land you've got, and you worked hard to get it working two or more jobs.
Don't be rude, don't be crude, don't let 'em run over you now. It won't take nearly as long for the second run-over to occur.
The 'good old days' Florida Mike is talking about are mostly fairy tale anyway, people have been squabbling about property lines for millenia...
I totally agree that you need legal representation or at least legal advice. A lawyer is likely to suggest that at a minimum you put your desire to 'have him cut nothing on or over the property line' in writing.
You may also want to take lots of pictures, and write down your recollections of all the conversations so far.
Every time you have a conversation (or a meeting) write down what took place and who said what. It's amazing how much that can impress people later. It's best if the other party has no idea that you have been taking notes, then when you pull out several pages of dated notes and they are speaking strictly from memory; It lends credibility to your position.
Lawyers can cost a lot of money but trying to clear this up later will likely be much worse, so I think you are doing the right thing consulting an attorney and a surveyor.
Also, don't be surprised if some folks give the old man a bit of a pass because he's 92. He may make a good victim, so stay calm and be careful that nobody can accuse you of bullying him.
Good luck, and let us know how things progress.
My guess is the guy will simply doze the row down. If Thornton sues him, the judge, who is likely the geezer's son in law, will find geezer 100% at fault and award Mr. Thornton 100$ in damages, to be offset by the cost of the nice new fence, which he will rule that Mr. Thornton will need to pay half for. 6250.00. Then put a lien on his property until paid. Then said judge and said geezer will go have a beer. Kansas Justice. I have seen far worse happen.
I looked him square in the eye and said by law you now have to remove your for sale sign!!!!
It took us 6 months to work it out! It all worked in my favor! He was stuck making a payment for 6 Months on a house he was trying to flip :0)
I claimed DoAP because I Mowed the backside of the trees for over 21 years ( thank Go dad may me start mowing young)
Who wouldn't want a hedge of trees on the edge of their property?
If that turned out to be the neighbor or his hired help, I'd probably flip sideways at this point. R Hale made a good point about old timers and there way's of thinking. God Bless
Richard may be just a bit jaded since he got sooooooooooo royally screwed out of some great ground, that was clearly his, by a family with very prominent connections in that part of Kansas.
Over the years, my research has found that many hedge rows were intentionally planted well on one side of the boundary line. (One was over 100' from the line)
Point is...without a court case stating the hedge row or fence line is the boundary, a land surveyor should locate the legally described line.
Granted, the laws are likely different in your state, but facts are facts. If the survey shows that you own land well beyond the trees, the last thing you want to start out with is an argument that the trees are the boundary line...
As far as the advice you have gotten. There is some good advice for sure.
As far as hand shakes and such. Well there was a time they worked. They still do however in the times Florida Mike speaks of it was nothing to get heated and out of control as well.
I hope the lawyer has good advice for you.
Second...then have conversation regarding your concerns about wanting hedge trees with said landowner after survey...
Thirdly...proceed with lawyer
I'd like to have three of them on our place, strategically placed.
Guys who are interested in hunting love hedgerows. Farmers HATE them. That's a couple more rows of corn and a bigger subsidy check.
Thornton, dig YOUR heels in and stand up for yourself.
Of course, he could be playing landowner poker with you.
On the other hand, maybe the deer you like hunting are eating a heck of a lot of stuff on his side hence his intense desire to get rid of their transition/cover area.
Who knows? Either way the survey will probably trump all other considerations in regards to property lines but perhaps not to ownership of the trees themselves. I sit on a planning commission and have been to a few trainings regarding property law and the quasi judicial process involving land use. Certainly property laws differ from state to state but, the judicial process if it gets to that point will take many things into consideration the survey being a primary proof property lines and generally provides the legal description in the deed which is proof of ownership. Sometimes however, surveys were not conducted for whatever reason and the deed contains references to landmarks which establish the boundaries and description in the deed.
Believe it or not proof of land ownership is one of the basic foundations of a nation and its economy. They way the land was acquired in the US is a serious point of contention for many tribes and what are known as land grants here in New Mexico. The land grants in particular are notorious for using landmarks while the tribes are using historic range which they have to prove.
Anyway good luck.
Just be wary of who he gets to survey it because sometimes the "surveyor" might be on the payroll too, so to speak. I would be researching for a good surveyor right now in case you have to counter. This can and does happen.
The fact that this guy is doing the survey shows he is a seat of the pants guy. Nothing it shows him will benefit his cause. If he were shrewd, which I first suspected, he would have simply removed the row and paid the damages if T sued. Damages would have been far less than survey. Geezer is in poor tactical position now. Down but not out.
BTW, IIRC weren't you the guy who sued the outfitter PRIOR to the hunt and bad mouthed him all over the 'net? Guy is a dirtball, but I think you had a far better chance of dealing with him out of court that T does this Dutchman. Your guy is concerned about his reputation and you had leverage. Hardheadedness likely is this guys reputation. He is also likely proud of it and anxious to build upon it.
I agree with R. Hale. Neighbor paying for a survey saves you $$$ and takes a step towards settling things once and for all. Here's my question.....if the survey works in his favor, you're gonna know it in a hurry....just about the time that the chain saws or bulldozers show up.....
Here's my question, what is the survey doesn't work to his advantage? Unless you pay for a survey, you'll never be privy to the results, will you? I wonder if offering to split the costs of the survey might be advantageous..... just a thought.....unless FOIL or some state requirement mandates that the survey results be shared with the state.
Unfortunately, the neighbor isn't going to see splitting the survey costs as extending an olive branch, but if it saves him some money....maybe that will outweigh the other factors. Better yet, maybe you could wait until the survey is done.....THEN offer to split the cost of the survey. If he does not agree to splitting the cost, it's probably in your favor (unless he is smart enough to try to recover some $$$ from an investment that didn't pan out....but if he really is hard headed, it may be worth considering).
I'd keep a close eye for the surveyor over the next couple weeks, as well. If you are lucky enough to be available on the day that he conducts the survey, you could watch him as conducts the work....and you could witness the results first hand.....just stay on your side of the property line. Heck, if you know who the surveyor is.....maybe he'd call you when he is preparing to do the survey?
I'd also put up another trail camera facing the other direction, so you can get a photo of the face of the person on the four wheeler....if your property lines allow.....and photograph where the trail camera was positioned. Be sure to use a camera that can be locked, so the memory card isn't suddenly missing (unless you want to put up a camera facing the camera...) I would also get video footage of the portion of the hedgerow in dispute right now......BEFORE any potential action is initiated by the neighbor.....I videoed the contents of my my house for insurance purposes, and video of your assets (aka the hedgerow) couldn't hurt. Just a thought.
The good news is that Thornton just saved some cash.....but now it begs another question.....if the hedgerow was planted 50 feet from a previously surveyed line, does the hedgerow STILL negate the survey? If so, at what distance DOES the survey "trump" the existing hedgerow for property border purposes?
Granted, everyone is assuming that the two are in close proximity.....but it could open a different can of worms, if they aren't.....like the 100' disparity mentioned by Hawg ( a licensed surveyor in Kansas).
Thornton,
Based on Hawg's comments, do you have a copy of the description of that edge of the property? Does it specifically refer to the hedgerow in detail, as a reference for the property line?
In that case the ball is back in Thornton's court.
In fact, at this point, in his situation, I'd probably have my own surveyor lined up.
You are partially correct. It is not a requirement to file it. But if not done, it is not a survey, just some lines with no legal implications.
Also, the results of the survey are irrelevant. The trees and fence are the line. Geezer is simply wasting money and not well advised. Nothing positive can come from the survey for him.
I won't quibble over the point about whether a survey is a survey, prior to being recorded. That's all semantics and definition.
A few posts back, you stated...." The survey must be filed on the record and will become public information to be official."
After Fuzzy responded, you posted "You are partially correct. It is not a requirement to file it."
I take that to mean that the survey is only recognized as official IF it is registered with the state...but that the survey itself is not required to filed. The wording could be taken a couple different ways....is that what you meant?
If the survey is irrelevent, because an existing line of trees supercedes the survey, doesn't that open up a bunch of potential for property line disputes? Again, this is based on the premise that the surveyed line, and tree are in close proximity.....and what is the definition of "close proximity"?
With GPS available and affordable, it seems that it would be more accurate than a row of trees....additionally, it could result in encroachment, couldn't it? Trim back the trees on one side of a property line, and let the other side go....the tree line eventually moves...granted, it takes a while....but in this day and age of technology, the way that things used to be done, is hopefully being changed to incorporate some more accurate methods....just wondering out loud.
If you look at most surveying contracts, you will see it is an estimate. I never get one for the estimate. The will need to reach out to the last known point. It could be miles away and take days to locate depending on area. My last 2K survey cost 7700. Depends on how rural the area and other local survey work done.
Your risk of getting the home town job lies with the judge. The laws are vague and judges can get by with anything. This includes making up testimony the lawyers forgot to bring up. Anything goes. Given the choice, get a jury trial. Harder to find 12 crooked laymen than one crooked judge. :)
It is not really a survey until it is filed. The word survey has many legal implications. That is one reason that savvy land traders, ( I am not one BTW ) will often request a firm to "shoot me a line" and get it done for a far lower price than a survey. It is a legal survey when filed at the court house at the Registrar of Deeds Office. Hope that answers your question.
The answers to your later questions are far more complicated. As Writer says I am also biased, jaded or snake bit.
As you say, we should be able to determine exactly where every boundary is. But that only makes half the people happy. So, the other half use other things to make their case. You do not really want to see the list I made so I deleted it.
How is that possible since you kill every interesting snake you find on your property?
Oooooooh, you mean the two-legged snakes that bit you in the banking account when they basically stole property that was rightfully yours, just because of a relative in a high place?
OK, now it makes sense.
1) Take detailed pictures of all of the trees from a variety of perspectives asap for documentation NOW.
2)Get a certified arborst to survey the trees IMMEDIATELY. It is very hard to establish tree condition (and resulting value) when you are dealing with a bunch of debris. Tree by tree, tagged and identified.
3) One of the most common lawsuits between neighbors is over what one neighbor does to the other neighbor's tree without consent. If those trees are on your property and the neighbor destroys or even damages them, he could be liable for many thousands of dollars worth of damages.
4) In CA, a survey is only required to be recorded when a new monument is set. If the monuments are all there, the surveyor does not need to file.
5) A survey is an informed opinion about boundaries. Depending on what point is used as the basis of bearing, two professionals can come up with two different opinions.
6) Surveyors almost always use stakes to mark corners (although these can be offset). Stay on top of the neighbor's surveyor to see where he locates the stakes and take pictures and GPS them.
7) I'd want my own survey 1) to make sure that the guy is competent (ask for references), and 2) so that you have some ammo if his surveyor comes up with a result that appears counter to your interests.
8) A lot of people are alluding to adverse possession. There are three tests that must be met for that to occur. This is where a competent LAND USE Attorney comes into play. R Hale referred to the hometown special. You want the insider who has handled (and wins) these types of cases. A lot of attorneys will imply they are qualified but if they don't have a land use law specialty, they aren't.
9) More land use attorney stuff, even if the property line straddles the trees and some of it grows on his side, there are legal doctrines where he generally can't damage the portion of the trees on his side since that will have an adverse impact on your property interests as well. RHale's comment about finding a local judge to take this position is relevant.
10) The one thing I agree with Florida Mike on is the "why" he is doing this is really important. If he just wants more farm welfare acreage, can you make it worth his while (e.g., purchase or conservation easement) for him to walk away or leave it alone? Everyone has reasons and values. Since those trees have obviously been growing unmolested for decades, what put a bee in this guy's bonnet? I would definitely try to stay on speaking terms with the guy. There are a lot of sneaky ways to kill or damage trees and you don't want him going commando on you (another reason to have an arborist evaluate the trees now).
11) You might consider planting some trees on your (unquestioned) property in case worse comes to worse.
Back to work work
do people needing bowhunting advice head to the amaerican bar association web page.
Hang in there,Thorton. Something tells me you can be a bit bullheaded too, when you feel you're right. :-)
My first suggestion (not to be perceived as legal advice as I am not an attorney) would be to get the heck out of Kansas! Don't go to California though...things are waaay worse there. Don't come to New Mexico either. We have other issues like the legality of trespassing across private land so long as you only walk in the stream. Maybe you should move to Wyoming? They have plenty of streams, plenty of trees, and not-quite-yet plenty of Californians. Take what you are about to pay in legal fees (and lost property value should you lose the legal battle) and re-appropriate those funds into a relocation account.
That's my $.02. If you choose not to take my advice and things don't go your way, I won't expect you to pay me back...consider the debt forgiven. LOL
Good luck! I truly hope it works out in your favor.
With that being said...Certified surveys are legal documents that hold weight in court. I've had several of my surveys presented in court as "legal", therefore considered a real survey.
I'm working on one now with similar implications where one land owner removed a half mile of hedgerow and the farmers are arguing on where the line is...It won't be filed in the Register of Deeds before the court date, but is still considered a "real" survey.
I looks like you have tried the face to face tactics and it didn't work. Sometimes thats how it is. Looks like now your Lawyer makes money, his Lawyer makes money and most likely neither you nor your crotchety old neighbor will be happy with the outcome. I say that because if you keep the fence row intact then you had to pay for those trees twice(once when you bought the property and again to the Lawyer to protect them). If the fence row is removed then the crotchety old guy had to pay twice...
Its a bad situation. I hope it works out to your liking. Mike
A lot of people could retire early selling hedge trees for that!
That's firewood and usually ends up in wood stove or a brush pile.In reality some people can't give it away fast enough.....
The market is in the labor/delivery for fence posts especially if a guy can get the trees for free.I bet the guy selling those posts didn't pay $2,000-$3,000 a tree and most likely didn't pay anything at all.
It is unless there are more or less than two wheels on the rear, LOL! There are lots of them still out there that people bought before they quit making and selling them.
"Now at that point, I had the right to remain silent. But I didn't have the ability"
1) it doesn't matter whether these trees are worth 3 grand, 3 bucks, or 3 cents. They have value to Thornton, they are on his property, and he wants them to stay on his property.
2) The "old guy"'s motivation to clear the row, likewise is immaterial. Thornton doesn't want it cleared, and it's on his property.
3) If, as it seems, the fence IS the property line, either in fact, by prior survey, or in lght of it having been the accepted property line for several decades, yes, the trees areas as much "the old guy's" as they are Thornton's. That point being conceded, half-ownership of a living tree doesn't give one half-owner the right to kill the tree. Were the trees not there, and the half-owner wanted to plant them, he would need permission from the other half-owner. Likewise, existing line-trees are protected by the rights of either owner.
4) If these trees are causing damages, inconvenience, or a nuisance to "the old guy", it seems fair he should have to claim such damages, prove the damages, and ask Thornton for remedy.
I'm done.
About the post, many trees have no post at all. The key is straight limbs or trunks for 9-10 ft, and of usable size. Not too small or two large. These traits are not the norm. Piles of Osage Orange trees are lit every day in Ks. They are considered a noxious tree. The state sells seedlings but you will not see them listed in the catalog due to the threats they would get. Same with Eastern Red Cedar.
As mentioned before I would, at a minimum, ask to buy a few feet on his side so that he can build a fence... and then keep it cleaned up for him. OR maybe ask to share some of the cost of the fence, or maintain it, if he's willing to leave the trees. From my experience, the trees are not worth the risk of having cattle on your side of the fence... just my opinion.
I do hope you get this worked out either way. Property lines can be extremely frustrating.
It seems like things in this situation are being handled properly, I mention these incidents just to show that sometimes when an old farmer gets something in his head, there is no changing it, legal or not. I hope things work out in your favor Thornton. I'd sure hate to lose those trees myself.
It is my understanding that you own half the hedge, not the whole hedge row (both sides of the fence line). I think what Randy was trying to say was to buy the remaining half (as well as others who are referencing 1/2 mile by 16 1/2 feet to purchase from the other owner of the hedge row.)
Again, you are not rebuying your half, but buying his half.
In a few years, pinch one area and the deer will cross there. Create a funnel, new hunting spot, better terms with you neighbor.?
I have been through that as well. It is called a fence viewing. The CC have no legal opinion on the hedge row or boundary. Only issue they can decide is if a "legal fence" exist and if not, assign a portion to each neighbor to maintain. The guy is not getting good advice and if the CC's go beyond the issue of a legal fence, you have them as well. Legal fence is 3 barbwire strands. No more is required.
I agree with Florida Mike. There is more to this story than the Thornton is telling us. In Thornton's first post he mentions his neighbor's age of 92 years. Age has nothing to do with this issue. Definitely a grudge in there somewhere. I would like to hear what Mr 92 has to say.
Mr 92 made Thornton a very generous offer. Free tree removal, free survey and free materials and labor. Now, Thornton might spend 5-10 thousand dollars on legal fees when he could have used that money to improve habitat on his own property. The trees have monetary value only as fire wood and maybe, a few wood posts. And, I am told, hedge apples have little value as food for wildlife (bowsiters stated this on another thread). If it were me, I would have begun improving the land when it was purchased 11 years ago.
Thornton doesn't want a new fence but, if the neighbor's cattle get out, Thornton is going to complain as well. You can't have it both ways. At some point you have to step up and do your part! You can't blame a neighbor for wanting a new fence. We all know, "good fences make good neighbors"!
Contrary to popular belief on this website, farmers do not hate trees. We do however recognize the fact that there is a place to grow trees and there are places where they don't belong. There is a time to plant a tree and there is a time to harvest it. Over the years, I have planted several thousand myself. By hand I might add.
Adverse possession came into effect some 200 years ago when the US was giving away land. If you could prove you were caring for and maintaining a parcel of land for a period of time it became yours for free. It is an out dated law that should no longer be used except when an easement is involved. Today, a person should not be able to claim land he has never paid property taxes on. An earlier poster boasted how he used adverse possession to claim property simply because he mowed the grass for 21 years. What a jerk!
I am amazed how posters on this website place such a high value on marginal trees yet, consider a cordial relationship with your neighbor as being worthless. Thornton, what are you going to do when your wounded 150" buck crosses the fence and dies on Mr 92's land? Are you going to ask permission to recover your deer? Or, are you the type who will sneak across the line to get it then act as if it never happened and pretend it is the neighbor who is "unethical"?
It has been mentioned that there was a conversation between both parties that quickly became heated. Of course, it was the other guy who started it. I understand that. It doesn't matter who started it. It has been my experience that there is never a reason to raise your voice. A person who is yelling tells me they are weak and afraid of the person they are yelling at. It is far more productive to remain calm. Raising your voice is comparable to throwing gas on a fire. You make the problem worse. Try it sometime. The next a fool yells at you, remain calm. Maintain a steady tone in your voice. The hot tempered person will become frustrated and eventually relax as well. He/she will become embarrassed and feel like the idiot they are. It works every time. No one wins when either or both are yelling. Far more productive to remain calm. I won't let a fool bring me down to their level. I recommend, having another conversation with Mr 92. Tell him you want to start over. Search for some common ground. Compromise. Leave the testosterone in your pocket where it belongs.
Free advice is often very expensive. What you need to do is man-up. Follow your gut. Not the free advice given on a hunting website. Do your part in maintaining a relationship with your neighbor. You have 2 or three other neighbors. Are you going to take them to court as well when the topic of their fences come up in the future? It is just a matter of time.
A 40 year old man should be capable of being a good neighbor without the need for free internet advice. Make your own decisions. Try to put yourself in Mr 92's position. If you need advice, pay for it. Treat your neighbor the way you want to be treated.
When I first wrote this, I wrote "young geezer" when ever I referred to Thornton. As I proof read it, I changed it. I don't want to stoop to bowsite's level. :) As mentioned earlier, this thread should have been removed as soon as the 92 year old was referred to as a geezer.
Life is simple. It is people who make it difficult on themselves. I wish both parties the best!
Huh? Why that probable unfounded comment?
Way to many trees being pushed over these days by bulldozers just to farm another acre.
Last Saturday when I got home from work my neighbor was mowing my field. He knows I like to keep it mowed during the summer, but my work schedule hasn't allowed me to keep up with it. He was doing it for me....with a smile. In the winter when we have a big snow, I sometimes wake to a completely cleared driveway (a few hundred feet long). If I'm the first one up, my neighbor's are the recipients of free snow removal. I talk to one neighbor regularly (he's a hunting guide). The others, I hardly ever speak to. Even so, random acts of kindness abound! We rarely say thank you with words. It's not necessary. We all just seem to make every effort to return a kind gesture whenever the opportunity arises.
It's not appropriate where I live to pass a vehicle or even a kid riding a bike without a smile and a wave. As neighbors walk in the evenings down the dirt road in front of my house they sometimes stop to watch me shoot my bow. When I'm practicing from 70 or 80 yards (simply for the purposes of practice) I'm nearly on the road. My neighbors are always encouraging and always wish me luck during the upcoming season.
I would love to own a huge property....a large tract of land. As it is though, I've just got a property consisting of a few little acres...surrounded by some really great folks whom I am glad to call my neighbors.
Many who follow this thread can relate to the farmer vs. farmer or farmer vs. hunter tone. For many others though, we live in cities or suburbs or apartments. We live in a day and age where we communicate via forums and e-mails and twitter and facebook. Some of us have online conversations with people halfway across the country every day and yet we don't know the next-door neighbor by first-name. Perhaps this thread might remind us the value of being a good neighbor? If you don't know your neighbor(s) this would be a great time to make an introduction. Exchange phone numbers and let them know you are available if ever he/she needs something. Also let them know you are a hunter. For those of us in more urban environments there is a strong likelihood that the neighbor is not a hunter. When that neighbor learns you are a hunter and you are also a great neighbor it's amazing how his/her view of hunting can be altered. It's just a little thing but sometimes it's the little things that can have the greatest impact.
--Bill
- a neighbor putting a gate in our common fence so his buddies could ride four-wheelers on our property and fish our pond.
- neighbor calling three rural fire departments when we were burning the switch grass on our dam, with the wind taking the fire into the 15 acre lake.
- neighbor with a motion detector that goes off when a squirrel runs across their yard.
- neighbors, who don't allow hunting, get mad when we kill "their" deer, on our property, in our cropfields, during the seasons.
- neighbors that patrol up and down the fence line, firing a pistol into the air when we have coon hunters on our side of the line at night.
- neighbors granting permission to others to fish in our lake.
Hang tight, Thorton. You worked hard to get that land, especially at your young age.
I remember when our place in the country had neighbors like you do in town, for many miles around.
This morning after I get home from working 12.5 hours of midnights I step on my bathroom scale and look out my window and see my new neighbor walking his two dogs. One takes a shit in my yard. No big deal he will pick it up NO!!!!! he starts walking off.
I throw on some pajama bottoms and follow him down the street yelling at him that this isnt the Obama neighborhood and he is not entitled to just let his dog shit in my yard and expect me to clean it up! He tells me he has no problems using his hands to settle a argument! I look at him and start laughing and say Fella you have no idea who in the hell you are talking to! I really didnt want to fight because my hand was broken drom St. pattys day from beating the living hell out of my ex brother in law and it still has excessive nerve damage.
I told him his dog isnt allowed in my yard and the only yard his dog is entitled to shit in is his own!
I walk home grab a shovel and give the old heave HO! and it splatters all over his driveway!
I go in and go to bed. I hear my door bell ring and he says I see you cleaned it up where did you put it and I will remove it! I look at him and say "Will you answer me one question? He says sure what is it? I asked did you or did you not vote for Obama?"
He says I am not going to answer that. I told him you are not entiteld to use my property for anything especially to allow you dog to shit in my yard!
He says OK I get your point where is the shit at and I will remove it. I said It is where it belonged in the first place! He says where is that?
I said on your F@&%$%&*^ property you freaking elitist! Then I point upwards to my survelience syatem and say "Yes your actions today are all on fill now get your entitlement thinking ass off my property and never step back on it again!!!!!!
I watch him walk over he is looking in his grass and steps right in his very own dog shit! Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh How well I went to sleep after that!
Well guess what all 9000 lbs of old Blue is parked right across from her driveway.
She said Kelly he said he was going back to clean it up?
I said Peggy all I know is a watched a grown man watch the dog he was walking shit in my yard and walk off.
I asked her if she ever saw Morgans dog Chloe ever poop in her yard? She replied No I have not!
I replied that is because we feel the only place our dog should poop is on our property. I said Peggy its like this I won this property you do not correct? Then as the landowner I dont want your dogs pooping in my yard! I said I will make a deal with you if you make just one of my house payments 1500.00+ a year your dog can poop in my yard and you dont have to clean it up I will.
I told her how the house to the left of my puts their dogs on a leash and only lets them shit in their own yard!
She chuckled and said Kelly I see where your coming from its your yard and not mine!
We gave each other a hug and I asked her if she needed a case of beer for the weekend and she said she does not drink! :0)
P.S. It's amazing every time a thread gets started it turns into perosnal issues between others! Just get an ATTORNEY
A survey is the right thing. A survey will not trump deed calls. A survey is an estimate based on deed calls. That's it. However, a licensed surveyor is needed to determine where that estimate is to hold up in court.
Arborist's don't determine the value of rural trees. Foresters do. Big difference in the two.
I don't now the whole story but, it looks to me that you have handled it correctly. Trying to talk it out didn't work. And by just letting him do it unknowing of who truly owns it isn't correct either. I suppose farmers think they know best what to do with your potential stuff. They don't. They just know it is easier than keeping that hedge row cut back to get their equipment closer to the line if the trees aren't there.
It is obvious that the guy either knew he owned it or didn't care if it was the line. He decided he wanted them gone and was prepared to remove them on sheer intimidation. That is where the bull head Gheezer comments come from. People don't like being bullied. By anyone, even farmers. So, if you think he has handled it wrong based on you being a farmer, your probably full of yourself.
Bottom line is the farmer obviously didn't know where the line was or that the line was the hedge row in question defined by the fence in it. Either way, he is at fault for just saying he was going to remove the trees without first working at a resolution with Thornton.
I'm betting he thought the trees were the line or close to it. But, wasn't certain of it, so he decided to just bluff his way into what he wants. I understand this guy is a hard working fella that deserves respect but, not free reign at someone else's expense. Old timers have a unique way of seeing things their way and a built in response to any young man who makes a living doing something other than farming in farm country. I personally understand his desire to want the trees gone but, he had the right to buy the property as well as Thornton to determine the fate of that hedge row. He didn't do it. So he is left with trimming it back on his side assuming that row is the line, if Thornton wants to keep it intact.
I understand being neighborly too. However, Thornton bought his property for him, not 92 and his wishes. One more thing, check the survey well that it matches the deed calls in direction. Get online and find the declination for the area and ensure if deed calls exist for that line, it follows them. Then, it will be what it is. God Bless
I would have your trees assessed.
Ah yes, the old "better to seek forgiveness, than to ask permission" routine......looks like he burned that bridge...LOL
