Am I too old???
General Topic
So the "What's your age" post got me thinking....
Being 32 years old, taking point creep and everything else into consideration am I too old to be buying points for Moose, sheep, goats, prime elk areas and ever realistically draw those tags???
Would I just be better off saving my money and paying for a "private tag" rather than buy points?
I bailed on most of the Western states draws a few years ago. Kept up with AZ and UT and thats it. I decided to put the money towards outfitted hunts.
Like everyone else, we should've started applying when we were teenagers...
I go back and forth on this, as I have a bunch of points all over the west. Being that I am self employeed, it is the time away from home that hurts me the most, both with family and with work. That being said, I don't have the time to draw a tag and then go out and scout a unit and then expect to go and be successfully the majority of the time with a bow. If/when I draw a tag I will be using a guide most of the time anyhow so going forward once I use the points, I will just go for land owner tags or outfitter guaranteed tags. I will keep putting in for some states though, such as Arizona elk. Time will tell if this is a good decision.
Also being 32, I've wondered this quite a lot myself.
For me it depends on the type of draw. PP draws, like CO elk and WY sheep, etc., I'm out. I'll never catch up.
And I may never catch up enough in states like NV and UT to ever draw primo tags, but I do it anyways, mainly because like in NV, I'm going to put in there for desert sheep anyways
It might make sense to buy landowner tags for things like elk, deer, etc. But to me, for things like desert sheep and bighorn, I'd rather try to draw.
Yes, if I prioritized, saved, skimped, etc., I could theoretically buy a MX desert hunt, or a bighorn hunt in Canada. . . .
But there's too much other stuff to hunt, and it's not a priority for me like other hunts. . . so I hope to draw them someday
My .02.
Bake
For elk and deer there are some really good middle tier units that you will be able to hunt one day with moderate points.
For Sheep n goat I just apply to states that give me a chance like Co. or states with a random tag.
You never know when a state will change the game and you will be out if you don't have points. Do what you can afford is my suggestion.
I am 42 and started way late. 2 years ago to be exact. I have points in AZ, Co, Wy and utah. However I made up my mind to go with mid tier units. The only tag I am holding out for and hope to catch is the Book CLiff mule deer tag. Its hard to say at 32 if you could catch a big point tag if you have little to no points. With the way things are going its not going to get any better. As for hunts like sheep, moose or mtn goat. I made up my mind to go to alaska when I have the time and money. A couple of them will require a guide.
Many of us struggle with the same issue. I have applied in many states for many years. Always gravitated to the harder to draw permits due to trophy quality being better, in theory at least. I drew my first permit last year in AZ for elk. (Hunt was an absolute waste of time)
Been applying since the 90's and some areas in the 80's but missed some years so not as consistence as I should have been.
Now I have decided to only apply for the one permit that I really want to draw and let the rest go. The odds are so long that I have little hope of ever drawing.
I have many points for AZ. sheep and antelope, but doubt I will apply again. The scams that are going on with these permits and hunts are sickening. It has come to be everything I was trying to get away from with hunting in the first place.
I thought about this a while back. I realized that the animals don't know where the unit boundaries are, and that I have a chance of picking up a great trophy anywhere. I might as well use my points on 'mid-grade' units and hunt where I want to. I do have points for a few species, but I'm not going to wait 20 years to burn them on one glorified unit that might not even be all that great by then...
I'm 30 right now and started building points in a few states last year for elk, mule deer, and antelope. My plan is to mostly just hold out for mid tier units and even those could take me a long time to draw. I'm not going to waste my time on getting points for moose, sheep, and goats. If I want a moose I'll do a DIY hunt in Ontario or Alaska and if I want a goat or sheep I'll throw my name in the hat for Idaho where at least I have the same chance of drawing as anyone else.
I'm 51 and I just drew archery antelope in AZ, took 17 points. I have max points for deer in AZ (18) I will continue to apply in AZ because I live right on the border and the hunts are closer than most in my own state. In the past I applied all over the west but now it's just CA, AZ and NM for exotics. I'm optimistic about draws because I've drawn some good ones, but now I'm more about travelling to hunt DIY in AK, NZ, HI.
If you Ok with a cow moose, you can draw those second choice in v Colorado as a non res
I am only building points in AZ currently. Once the kids are on their own, I may start building for "golden years" elk hunts. I couldn't get away from my business if I drew now, anyway.
Hopefully, I will work until I die so I need to focus on restructuring my life to have a month in the fall and a month in the spring.
In most states, I only started applying 2 yrs ago and I'm about to turn 36.
I don't apply for most of the CO draws and some of the WY draws.
I don't think that CO is worth it for a lot of their draws because they dont have a random pool which makes getting in at this point kinda pointless. I figure I don't even have a chance for 61, but started building points for elk last year to have a low-point unit option and deer is a no-brainer.
I broke down and applied for WY moose this year because I really want to hunt a Shiras one day an don't want to just rely on MT and UT, but I really think it's long odds for me to draw in the PP round ever, maybe in my 70s.
I don't apply for WY sheep - between the tag price, having to submit the tag money, the wilderness scam, and the point creep, it's not worth it.
Other than that, I think the AZ, UT, NV draws are all worth it. I only go for sheep and moose in MT.
WA sheep/moose is crazy expensive to app and I may drop out there.
You have to consider your goals too. For instance, I only want to hunt goat once and pronghorn are low on my list, but elk, moose, and sheep are very high on my list of things I want to hunt, so that influences how I apply.
Another point: For many of these tags, if you're going to hire a guide once you win the tag, then there's little point in applying and it makes sense to just save your money instead and purchase a similar guided hunt, private land access, or a land-owner voucher.
In certain cases, the only thing applying does is gives you the option to hunt DIY as you may very well invest the same money in the app process as you do on the guided hunt, private access on OTC, or LO tag with similar value.
This is the case for many deer, elk, and some sheep/goat tags. You could throw moose in there too if you didn't care much between a Canadian and a Shiras moose.
It's never too late to get started. It helps to live in a state with multiple species you may get a chance to draw for.
Heck, for Colorado if you are a resident you can draw a sheep, goat or moose tag in 4 years if you are just beginning now.
I know of lots of people with the max who don't draw and then some with the minimum who do.
Look at that Chris Nowak guy from Pure Hunting. He killed a great Rocky ram last year, and this year a Desert Ram, moose, and a Goat tag as well. It boils down to luck in the draw.
One thing is certain- if you don't apply you will not have any chance.
IWA is correct on the total investment in the permit if/when you draw.
I figured I had over 3K in my AZ elk permit.
Well I think I will go with my gut and just save the money on points and just pony up for tags in the future.
In Wyoming you can look at the draw results for the last 4 years. The come by species, with or without points, and how many it takes. You can even pay 2x the tag to get thrown into another group If you know what species your after, and were your going to hunt then you can see how many points it takes. Elk points started in 2006. The unit I would hunt takes at least four points to draw. The Antelope unit I want to hunt next takes 4 points which I now have. Mountain Goat,Sheep or Moose if you start now you should get your draw by the time your 50. Good Luck
I drew a Maine bull moose tag last year after about 10 years of applying, lots of guys who had been playing for 30 years told me I would never see another New England moose tag in my life. This year, I threw my name in the hat for a Vermont archery moose permit and guess what, my hunt starts Oct 1st! Pure luck, but it happens. I know the draws and points etc are expensive, but I like to hunt and I'm gonna keep taking my chances. I too am 32, i've got a bunch of points in some states for some species (what i could afford when i got started) and in other states i've only got a few. I hope my career and income continue to allow me to play the game, if they do I will eventually get to do some great hunts, if not, I will have more time to chase local game. I look at the draw tags as a bonus, an extra hunt that I don't normally or may never get to do again. Also, people draw every year, people take points to their grave every year, people get to old to do some of the hunts, they forget to apply, their financial situation changes etc etc. Also, the states make changes all the time, no body can predict the future. Keep working hard and taking your chances!
I'm 44 and started when I was 30 or so. I have drawn: WY Moose MT Moose MT Goat WY Antelope twice in great areas UT Deer UT Bison AZ Elk AZ Antelope (early season unit 9) NV Deer NH Moose CO Deer And have enough points in most states to cherry pick a bunch of very good hunts.
I'm glad I started. I just wish I started sooner. I didn't go full bore on all states right off the bat.
Good luck!
Quote: "In Wyoming.....Mountain Goat,Sheep or Moose if you start now you should get your draw by the time your 50".
Just have to point this out.....No NR starting now is going to draw Bighorn Ram or Shiras Bull Moose by preference in Wyoming within 18 years. Moose you'll be 30-50 years away from drawing by preference, and sheep 50-80 years away from drawing by preference, if starting this year, under the current program, as a NR. Just mentioning this for purposes of a reality check :-)
You can draw any species on the random draw in Wyoming. So, sometimes you just have to forget the points and take your chances.
There are certain requirements to make sure there are enough tags to have one go random, but all species do have random draw tags.
Good luck!
Sticksender, how did you come up with the 30-50 year time frame for a non-resident to draw a moose tag in WY? Not argueing, just wondering. I have 4 or 5 moose points as a non resident in WY and don't really have any intentions of putting in for the actual tag for a while but certainly wasnt planning on waiting till i was 60 either.....
I haven't run the moose numbers lately since I drew a few years ago, but all you have to do is look at the number of people with more points than you and divide by the estimated number of NR tags annually given to get an idea of the length of time until you may draw.
For people with few points, it should add up to about one lifetime.
And sheep, well that should be a few lifetimes.
HuntingAdict, it's "point creep" caused by the influx of NR applicants who have overwhelmed the draw pools. Further aggravated, in the case of Moose, by decline in the number of Moose, caused partly by introduction of predators.
Point creep basically means that for every point (year) you gain, it takes almost one full additional point (year) to draw. So the "catch-up" process is very slow. Many guys make the mistake of looking at, say, Wyoming Moose points required today, and then assume that's how many points it will take to draw when they reach that level. Of course that's wrong. With the passing of each 10 years, it takes 8-9 additional points to draw, as a general rule of thumb. It was not always that way, but now it is.
I attended the Sheep Hunter Orientation in Sacramento last Sunday. One of the lucky hunters had never applied anywhere for a sheep tag before. This seems to happen almost every year in CA.
Bowsite's own bill v drew a great sheep tag in WY this year and he had only one point.
In NV, several people with very few points draw sheep tags every year.
Apply, apply, apply!
I understand point creep, but I think you are assuming ALL of the people with more points than you are applying for the tag each year. That is certainly not the case, I have had plenty of points to draw tags in states like WY and AZ however Im just not ready to do the hunts right now or I've drawn other tags or made plans to do other hunts. I can usually only afford one out of state hunt per year, like many others. So just because there are a significant amount of people "ahead of you in line" doesnt mean they are ready to check out.
I second NvaGvUP, Apply apply apply!
I never really got into the point game. I saw it as "pointless" because of the cost to play. I do buy points in Wyoming for antelope and elk but I am not interested in primo units. I should draw with 1 point for the antelope unit I am planning to hunt.
I have a friend who is a rancher in WY and the only thing that keeps me from killing a Shiras bull is a tag. :). Access to great moose ground won't be an issue just getting a tag is the problem. I have decided just to put in for the random draw. Someone has todrsw those tags so it might as well be me. My odds of drawing a tag in the random tag are better than trying to get one with points....that is unless I outlive Methuselah.
