Farewell bowhunter magazine
General Topic
Well, got my final issue of the bowhunter magazine and honestly I can say that I won't miss it, amazed at how thick it was. It is no longer a magazine it is a book, 176 pages and unfortunately over 130 pages of ads. With the few exceptions every right hand page is a full page ad, and there is multiple ads on the left hand side too. Yes there have been some interesting articles but they seem to be more focused on advertising and of course it's the money maker, but its time to put my money towards a hunting magazine that is focused on hunting. I use to enjoy reading this mag but no longer will it hit my mail box. It seems that they have lost their focus on providing more hunting content and the focus is on sharking all the gadgets out there. Let's just call it what it is, Bowhunter Ad Agency rather then a magazine and just happens to have a article or two about hunting.
Well, they know their market. Both the suppliers an the compound guys think all the stuff in necessary and cool. So of course they are going to market it, if you sold ad space you would too.
They published and article of mine once, but I no longer subscribe. I did get an offer of a $5 price for a years subscription, but I've passed. One article on traditional bowhunting is not worth my time or money.
TBB
LBShooter - wondering what you are considering instead? I agree that the content is much different and a lot of time it's re-hashed things from discussion groups or TV. I mean most articles are written even mentioning the cameraman now...
When it first came out, there wasn't a better way to get our hands on information about our sport. learnign about scrapes and rubs and how to pattern our quarry was only found in the glistening pages of a managzine. Now we can google it, watch a youtube video, chat about it on on the web and learn more in the time it takes to show up in the mailbox.
Call me a bit nostalgic. But I don't mind sitting on the thinking chair and thumbing through the pages and reading an article to relax a bit.
My original quesiton stands though (and I won't debate it) - just looking for what other source you may be turnring to in print.
I thought the same thing. Funny thing is a few issues back an article was an exact copy from a different mag 4 YEARS AGO. With all the adds they should send it out for free.
I haven't bought a hunting magazine other than Traditional Bowhunter in years. I do pick up a copy of Bugle once in while or BC Outdoors for a local flavor but that is quite rare.
The oversaturation of advertisement is not limited to the pages between articles either. I got tired of reading how my only chance to kill a deer was if I was shooting a super allstar bow with mega brite 6 pin sight and super stable rest with an ultra crisp release aid firing Blood demon triple carbon arrows and megadeath 6 blade mechanicals while wearing tree blend camo head to toe hidden in a super secret stealth quick set blind with a scent destroying uber machine running in the background.
I am a gear head too, I love perusing the catalogues and online sites looking at new back packs, boots, sleep systems and cooksets to shave weight, but I shoot sticks, I wear second hand wool plaids and I read hunting magazines for the adventure, success and sometimes the humility of the person telling the tale.
I was surprised at the chuck adams articles. One focused on his cougar hunt for the final slam animal from 15 years ago and one about the super slam that spent the first page discussing legal stuf and trademarks and stuff.
at least it was 176 pages with a lot of ads normally it is 64 with lots of ads. it's a dying medium in this day and age, but still worth the 1.50/ copy you can get it for if you ignore enough renwal notices.
Matt palmquist had a good story in it.
My latest story in the new issue doesn't promote products or sponsors, doesn't promote a show, is instructional, and if it matters, which it doesn't, I shoot trad gear.
I subscribe to a number of magazines, and can't think of many with the overall quality of writing and variety of hunting stories. Bow and Arrow Hunting is another one that fits that bill. Specialty mags are fine for the specialty, but the quality of material and writing is often painfully bad.
Funny, but I never noticed the ads until some Bowsiters started bringing it up. I still don't notice them.
About the only magazine I get anymore is GSCO's publication. Most of is about hunters successes , and most is stuff I can only dream about doing, but I look forward to receiving it each time it gets sent out.
Back in the '90s I helped Dave Samuel recover a couple nice deer he shot. I remember he offered to set me up a 3 year free subscription to BM, but I declined. He asked me why and I told him I didn't need a 3 year chore of throwing away magazines I don't read. He and I have been friends for many years and he stops at my house now and then...we don't talk about Bowhunter Magazine.
Well bogey, I do get traditional bowhunter, I haven't pick any new ones yet. I had a subscription to petersens bowhunting at the same time as bowhunter and it was always funny to read one pick up the other and see the exact same article. It's clear they shuffle the articles around just to make it look like a huntign magazine so they can put the ads out, I understand the money side and I am fine with it' except I am done with that. I will look for a couple new reads and hopefully find one that just has less ads of crap being hocked.
SHooter, can you provide an example of an article being published in two different North American hunting magazines? I read a LOT and have never seen that.
I've has stories published in the US and in International magazines, which some contracts permit. But I've never seen a duplication in this country. Just curious.
Will take some looking but it was Petersens BH and bowhunter mag, and it was the same month to boot. I'll look and if I find it I'll let you know Jaq.
I agree---I didn't renew like 4-5 years ago...screw all those ad's...
Plenty of other bow mag.'s out there---
Good luck, Robb
Great articles in it by Lou and Palmquist.
don't have time for mags to busy on bowsite dot com
I have to say I enjoy seeing articles by people I "know" show up from time to time. Reading about Nicks multiple deer in the August issue was really fun, since I can remember hearing each of those deer from him when he took them. I've never met Lou or Big Dan in person, but have had conversations on here with them and feel like I'm reading a friends writing when it shows up in the magazine. In the September issue, my son even had a little blurb in one of the articles- that was really neat.
What I miss though, is that in both jay Strangis-era Peterson's and in the M.R. James (and to a lesser extent the the Dwight Schuh) era Bowhunter, there were a lot more stories that were just that- hunting stories. They were anecdotal, and quite often pretty decent for emotional and even literature values. I really miss those stories. The company that owns them should compile them and sell them in book form... Nowadays, Peterson's in particular kiind of reminds me of old hunting spots that were clear cut and are now just choked with cheat grass.
They have to make their money. I don't mind ads if there's good articles also, (except for crossbow adds which just make me made every time I see them). As far as the articles, I'm not too impressed, but I do think all of Chuck Adams articles are good. I dont really care if the hunt was 15 years ago. The guy is pretty amazing.
"screw all the ads."
I'm sure you work for free, too?
Once again, welcome to Bowsite, where we most often slam what we know so little about.
Some of you guys are clueless on what it takes to publish these days, just as I'm probably clueless about the industries in which you work.
I think Bowhunter is the best mag going; I'll keep renewing.
Anybody from the 80's- remember the Stump Sitters ?
Well I love to read, the problem is their are not alot of good writers anymore,........ I like the Annual they came out with. Nicks article was first rate and Dan Evans article was good.....
I like reading these stories, from hunters, who write well.......
Bowhunter Mag was for the most part better with the DIY articles. The staff is always on an outfitters place etc, so that gets old.......
Their TV show would be better with more DIY hunts but I realize, they need to put a show on, and they are not cheap.......
I do think, I would like to hunt with Curt Wells and Dwight etc, they all seem like swell guys to me.....
I am one guy, who shoots Trad 95% of the time, always had, but not much of a fan of TBM..... I do not fit in with the Trad guys, too many have a stick up their a.. They are not that friendly of a group, very clicky
Ads are how they get paid! Common sense. Sure ads get annoying and I'm sure most of the guys who write quite a bit don't like ads. But ads are how people stay in business.
Great articles Lou and Matt P!
"Funny, but I never noticed the ads until some Bowsiters started bringing it up. I still don't notice them."
Same here. Lots of adds is kinda normal nowadays. Magazines used to make money off of subscriptions. Now they have to have ad revenue to survive. It's really not that distracting.
The last mag with Nick's article in it was a great one, just read it on the plane. I have several subscriptions because it's still the #1 way to read professionally written and edited hunting stories. And they still work when you don't have internet access.
I'd rather pay a little more and get some good stories! I loved Traditional Bowhunter even before I started shooting traditional bows! The stories are purely about hunting, the gear used is a footnote at most at the end of the story! Bowhunter Magazine was my internet equivalent back in the late eighties, early nineties when I made my first segway into hunting with a bow and arrow. With what I learned in BM, had it not been for an extreme case of buck fever set in motion by a little old fork horn, I would have harvested a deer? It served me well then, but it just isn't the same anymore.
I will get Bowhunter as long as I can still hunt.I do not mind the advertisement,atleast I know its advertisement not like the internet.
The writing of Dwight Schuh is probably the best reason I have to stick with Bowhunter. I leave in a week on a self guided one-person elk hunt. Dwight's latest article is an inspiration. At the age of 82 it is easy to pay little attention to most slick advertisements.
I like all the adds in Bowhunter Mag.
It lets me see what is new, what I might like, without having to drive many miles to the nearest vender.
All that goes real well with Bowsite, listening to all of you speak about your gear, your set-ups, what worked and what didn't.
Saves me tons of money and time.
HEY ! I want to thank all of you for posting about your hunts and gear. I really appreciate it.
Tony
Here's what you get from bowhunting magazines in general these days: big trophy hunt stories, how to's, and advertising. I haven't really been interested in those three things for about the past 10 years. Bugle mag is the only one I get anymore, but even they seem to be getting over advertizy. At least the $ is going to a good cause with the RMEF - at least in my humble opinion.
Old Post....I agree with your post and you are my inspiration. Best of luck on your hunt! .......badbull
Writer+1. Threads like this never cease to amaze me.
I agree, gotta pay the bills some how. I thought the recent issues were pretty decent. Glad to see Lou and Matt in this month. I used to get 6 or more a month, now down to bowhunter and Eastmans, but honestly may read 1-2 articles a month...
On a side note, any of you guys that believe Nick wrote that article, I got news for you, I'm pretty sure Stef wrote most of it for him, she does everything else ;)
--Jim
(Shhh Jim- you're not supposed to let anyone know that about Nick- but you're right- rumor has it Stef even had to let him borrow her bow so he could shoot his bear!)
Well, I just finished reading it from cover to cover, and I believe it's one of their best issues ever!
To each his own, I guess.
Anybody who doesn't know Stef wrote it,...doesn't know Nick. :-)
I like Bowhunter and would say Curt Wells does a great job. I enjoy ads, seeing. What's on the market. Pretty easy to tell which are worth a second look.
QUOTE....
"screw all the ads." I'm sure you work for free, too?
Once again, welcome to Bowsite, where we most often slam what we know so little about.
Some of you guys are clueless on what it takes to publish these days, just as I'm probably clueless about the industries in which you work...................................................
Isn't the guy who buys the magazine one of the guys who is paying the bills ? I always thought to be successful you needed to make your customers HAPPY so they keep coming back and buying your product....
Might be clueless but in the end it is our hard earned dollars that not only pay the magazines bills but pay the advertisers too. Remember with sooooo many hunting articles, sites, story's , videos on the internet the magazines should listen and try to make the customer happy because today everything is only a "click" away.
I don't mind the ads. Cant afford them but don't mind them.
I'd just like to have the money a few issues worth of all those companies ads cost by the time the products reached the consumer.
It's a business. If the format and formula didn't work, the magazine owners would fire Curt, Dwight, Danny, Jeff, Tony, and the rest of the editors who steer the ship and start over. They obviously are making the customers happy. Some people won't like it. That's life.
No one magazine can make everybody happy unless it's free, no ads, and features only award-winning writers hunting unicorns DIY with self bows. Or compounds for the tech guys. But with ads only for the guys who like ads. And maybe some boobie girls thrown in. Except for the issues delivered to the guys who are offended by boobie girls.
Good article by Lou in the current issue. I was surprised at some of things that Chuck Adams said in his SS piece. Advertisements pay the bills. Content keeps the subscribers. I suppose that they could raise the issue prices and dump the adds, but something tells me that those who don't like the adds wouldn't subscribe anyway.
I read a good article by Mad Trapper once.
Actually a couple but I liked the Tule elk one!
I'd have to say that in general, bowhunter magazine is fine. I honestly don't look at print advertising, therefore I don't complain about it either. I don't complain when I'm reading my local newspaper, or national one, when they run ads as its how the make bread. I do enjoy the stories, because for the most part they are regular bowhunters.
Piecing through the bs when they mention products (insert eye-roll) is easy to ignore as well.
That being said, the big game special that came out was a great read.
I kinda look past the ads myself unless it happens to be something I may be interested in. For the most part I enjoy reading both Bowhunter and Peterson's Bow Hunting. It is just a way for me to relax and wind down. I've thought about subscribing to Easton's Bowhunting Journal as well.
Nedly you are still getting the girls from that Tule article!
In "1972" (I think) when Bow Hunter Magazine came out (or maybe it was 1973?)....I thought it was the greatest thing I have ever seen. The magazine fit 'me' to a "T" and it was 'who I am' .... A Bow Hunter! ... at that time I didn't know any of the people involved nor any of the hunters in the stories.
In the 80's I was fortunate to be friends with many of those that had affiliation with BOWHUNTER MAGAZINE. A friendship that has lasted through the years. I have a deep respect for "most" of these fine people. "MAGGIE" was the first I met around 1980 or so. He was genuine and we had some great conversations..... I miss that man! So through the years, YES the magazine changed.
Consumers have brought about 'this change'! Archery and Bow hunting is NOT now what it was in the 70's, etc. I miss those days!
M.R. and "his crew" through the years have been "good guys" ..... 'most' I consider great friends .... but the turn of the century and now at 2014, I hardly recognize archery and BOW hunting as it 'was'! With that "CHANGE" everything has changed ...... all I think brought on by the consumer and the 'need' for this and that. Although 'most' of those things are Not Needed to actually be a Bow Hunter. But, manufacturers thrive and survive by inventions and marketing and sales ..... walla.... the consumer! (ADDDDD's)
"Isn't the guy who buys the magazine one of the guys who is paying the bills ? I always thought to be successful you needed to make your customers HAPPY so they keep coming back and buying your product...."
Let's face it, our subscriptions are the insignificant part of the equation. The revenue comes from advertising and if they could get their subscription base up high enough by giving them for $5 a year, they would and could sell more ads for more $$. The subscriber fees are not paying for the magazine.
That's why when you let your subscriptions go for most any magazine, you always get a chance (or two) at a lower price. IN fact, how many times have you gone to your mailbox and received a subscription to a magazine that you didn't order? They just need higher subscription numbers to sell more ads and higher priced ads.
I liked the mag better in the MR James days....but still think it's the best out there and will keep subscribing.
Smart advertisers look at PAID subscription numbers. It is not hard to see where print media is headed.
jdee-
I've been in the print media world for 32 years, full-time, and worked with/for publications from the Wall Street Journal and Outdoor Life on down. I'm confident in what I've added to this thread.
Ads drive the financial bus, plain and simple. Often ad incomes are 75 percent or more of money coming in to a publication.
Those ads are tough to come up with since the internet got rolling. Notice you don't see many "help wanted" or automobile ads in the local newspapers any more?
If someone is looking for a job, or a good deal on a car, all the information that's available is found after a few taps on a keyboard.
That's why we're down to about 40% of the staff we had in 2000 at the state's largest newspaper.
In a way, you do wield some power because if you don't get the magazine, that's one "hit" for advertisers to reach.
Don't think advertisers are the most important? Look how hosts on the Outdoor Channel go to extreme to talk about "smoked" him with their new Hoyt, or what damage their Rage head did, "baby."
Look at how thin some magazines have gotten, like Outdoor Life and Field and Stream.
What's missing?
The advertising, which means less money of for pages and paying writers.
The only thing I know that comes "ad free" to the audience is the production of the Master Golf Tournament. Augusta National pays for the television time. But, they make their money in other places to pay for the TV time.
Media (publications or view) not free. Advertising is what pays the bills. No advertisers means out of business. Pretty simple.
Ads are a good way of keeping informed of available products. Research is what separate the true products.
Personally, I like Bowhunter magazine, the staff, the contents and the ads.
Advertisers and sponsors are what pay the bills for this website to be possible. Think about that !!
jdee- I've been in the print media world for 32 years, full-time, and worked with/for publications from the Wall Street Journal and Outdoor Life on down. I'm confident in what I've added to this thread.
Ads drive the financial bus, plain and simple. Often ad incomes are 75 percent or more of money coming in to a publication.
Those ads are tough to come up with since the internet got rolling. Notice you don't see many "help wanted" or automobile ads in the local newspapers any more?
If someone is looking for a job, or a good deal on a car, all the information that's available is found after a few taps on a keyboard.
That's why we're down to about 40% of the staff we had in 2000 at the state's largest newspaper.
In a way, you do wield some power because if you don't get the magazine, that's one "hit" for advertisers to reach.
Don't think advertisers are the most important? Look how hosts on the Outdoor Channel go to extreme to talk about "smoked" him with their new Hoyt, or what damage their Rage head did, "baby."
Look at how thin some magazines have gotten, like Outdoor Life and Field and Stream.
What's missing?
The advertising, which means less money of for pages and paying writers.
Save this and post it again in a few weeks when the same post comes up. I got tired of trying to explain it.
Writer,
If we are free to slam what we know nothing about, all topics are open to me. :)
First time in my life being ignorant had a benefit.
Thanks!
bowriter,
Excellent explanation of the issue (no pun intended).
The text was written by Writer, bowwriter just added the last line.
Clarifying only
Highlife I think you need to seek help. I simply stated why I will no longer subscribe to BH, sorry if that makes you mad or whatever your thinking is on the topic. Take your own advise because you don't need anybody to give you a bad rep you've don a great job yourself with the few words you have spoken. Just to inform you, it is america ie free speech so I'll say what I want when I want without having to listen to you. Obvious you have a bias toward trad guys , Libby? elitist? Lol ok If you say so. Like I said earlier highlife take your own advice that you so freely give to others it will do you well in the long run.
Nothing sadder than hunters sitting on the porch playing Springsteen's "Glory Days" over and over. Live in the moment and enjoy it to the fullest.
Take that 164 page issue and go through it. Tear out every page that has an ad both sides of the page. I'll bet you have a very thin magazine and most of the pages left still have an ad covering half the page.
It's as bad as paying for cable television to watch advertisements. Didn't they used to say "The ads PAY for t.v.?" Now us fools pay for t.v. to watch ads!!!
Hadn't read one in ten years and don't intend to change that. I don't read much of anything except the American Hunter, America Rifleman, and Fur-Fish-Game. Everything else is just about impossible to stomach for lots of reasons. And most of it we all know, so there is no sense in going into it. God Bless
Well Pat, I understand you defending your friends, well done. As far as creating this thread, I think my thoughts were respectful in every way , just explaining why I wouldn't renew. I have been a long time subscriber to BH and yes I guess a part of me will miss getting the new addition each month, especially leading up to the season. However, am I and others not customers of this publication? Do we not have the right to express our dismay with a product that we purchase or should we keep quiet and just pay our funds. I read many posts where someone is dismayed or dissatisfied with a bow, arrows, and even an outfitter so why is the magazine off limits. I am sure from my venting about one magazine is not going to hurt the subscriber numbers and I would bet that Curt and the others really don't give a rats a$$ what I think or what other guys think. We are a fraction of the whole and therefore defending them is unnecessary. I did not attack or impune any of the writers or editors. Maybe, my critique and others opinions hit the mark and that's why it has struck a nerve on both sides of the discussion. The only way to improve a product is to have an honest discussion which clearly both sides are chiming in. Who knows, maybe Curt is in the background reading and may take some of the comments under advisement. I applaud your format here with not plastering ads all over the place, and most folks out here know and try to support the sponsors here without it be being in our face. Maybe the print guys could learn a lesson from you.
You are entitled to your opinion and 'free speech' as you put it. Have you contacted Bowhunter magazine or the publisher directly? They do care what you think, but it maybe isn't something they are able to change at this time. I know that Curt has said on bowsite that the advertisement content is out of his control unfortunately.
I agree 100% with Pat's post. Bottom line is a magazine/website/TV show isn't ever going to satisfy everyone. I have always avoided bashing because until I stand in the same position as someone on TV or Editing a Publication how do I really know what it takes. To each their own.
Thanks for the Kudos on my recent article regarding my brothers pronghorn. I skimmed the article and I mentioned specific products very little if at all in this article. I have been guilty of dropping a product name occasionally, but do my best to keep that to a minimum. I read Lou's article as well and it was great as usual....also with very little product mention. Once again, satisfying every reader is impossible but I think Bowhunter is as good as it gets. Keep up the good work!
Matt
My experience has been that when you drop a magazine, organization, product line, etc for whatever reason and care enough to contact them to tell them why you have done so, they rarely reply. Makes you wonder if they really care when they lose long-time subscribers or users of their products. Many times people start threads such as this just to vent their frustration and feel like someone out there is hearing them...even if the audience is not the one that needs to hear the message the most.
So some people don't like ads. Fine. Most don't. If you contact the publisher, what's going to happen? The publisher reduces the amount of ads just to satisfy a whiny few, some of whom don't/won't subscribe anyway? Then the revenue drops, so they have to lay off staff, reduce the fees paid to writers, resort to poorly-written Me & Joe material like some other publications that pay less or not at all (and which still have plenty of ads)? I don't think so. They have a formula that works from a business perspective.
You guys have a right to not like a publication and not subscribe. How about offering a business and economics-based solution to what you perceive as the problem? I have read these "I hate Bowhunter" threads ad nauseum, and no one has ever proposed a workable alternative. Back in the Good Old Days, there were only a couple bowhunting magazines, and no internet with which to compete.
I have here in front of me a copy of Traditional Bowhunter from 1998. Out of 106 pages, there are exactly 9 with no ads. Four of those are the lead pages for feature stories. Most of the pages are 1/2 to 3/4 ads, with story text sandwiched in-between. exactly how Bowhunter is structured today.
What has changed? Were you guys complaining then? Or are the ads in TBM more suited to your tastes, and therefore acceptable?
