I pay zero attention to the wind
Whitetail Deer
October bowhunting world mag - John Eberhart makes that quote. "Learn which scent-eliminating technologies work and what is required to make them work. Googling the technologies will tell you what extent it is used it is used in other world-wide industries; some live up to the hype and some don't. Last year marked my 50th bow season, and for the past 14 seasons, because I've done my scent research, I pay zero attention to the wind. ". This definitely goes against my experience. What say you?
He says that in his bowhunting pressured whitetails book and it's the one thing he talks about that I don't agree with. I think Scentlok is in his pocket. lol
The wind is the FIRST thing that I consider when hunting a stand location.
the dog
I was wondering if he espouses ozonics. I still think we should do all we can to play wind in our favor. I wonder if he said it sarcastically? I would trust a Wensel's advice much more than that. IMHO
John Eberhart has shot more high pressure "real" bucks than anyone I know of. He enjoys no royal treatment like the TV lot and has written the best books I have personally ever read on whitetail hunting. He does not pose with bucks that were "grown" for him or " grown" for the highest bidder. He shoots bucks available to any and all hunters willing to buy a tag and go for it the old fashioned way. John pays SERIOUS attention to the wind, but knows what to be bothered about and what not to be bothered about, given the research he has done and then.....applies. Most bowhunters will never kill one of the magnificent bucks he has (under obscene hunting pressure) let alone 20-30. I think most published whitetail hunters have very little to offer anyone but their sponsor(s). On the contrary, John Eberhart has a lot to say. A lot that will help any whitetail hunter regardless of your level. Jack, read Johns books, you'll know why he makes a statement like that. I personally challenge you to follow his advice and NOT get more chances at mature bucks. Good luck!
He might not, but deer certainly do. They will adjust their travel routes according to wind direction. He may not be worried about getting scented because the right set up should put you downwind anyway.
Boot Hill not questioning his success or skills. It was a very interesting comment. Telling us to google technology.
So where does this guy hunt?????????? I have an open mind, but the DIY hunts I have done in SD Nebraska, CO, Kansas and here in the UP, the wind has helped me out quite a bit......
What books has he written, because I would buy them, I can always learn from someone.......
Details are often left out on alot of posts on what so and so does......
Hope you give more detail.............
Believe me there are alot of good deer hunters that no ones know about....... Point is, I would like to read what he has to say, SO NAME THE BOOKS.......
Thanks
Jack, my guess is that he is referring to the ongoing scent lok effectiveness debate which has been flogged to death and doesnt want to get into all that repeatedly. I don't either.....some believe the so called hype of scent lok, others don't believe in it at all. Instead of taking others' words for it or against it, I just go on my own personal experiences which began before I ever heard of John Eberhart. Since 2003 when I tried my first scent lok garment, I have been getting closer and better bucks ever since. I notice a difference in deer behavior. Not their complete unawareness Im there, but they seem confused and possibly thinking there is a human presence, but probably farther away than they think. I never get blown out anymore as long as I follow my scent regimen. Scent lok has given me many reasons to believe it helps suppress odor.....I wouldn't buy it if I honestly see a difference. Funny part is....when I first starting reading Johns books during the years of experimenting with scent lok, I was noticing the same results he was. Does science support it? maybe-maybe not. does my success level support it? you betcha.....
Jack, my guess is that he is referring to the ongoing scent lok effectiveness debate which has been flogged to death and doesnt want to get into all that repeatedly. I don't either.....some believe the so called hype of scent lok, others don't believe in it at all. Instead of taking others' words for it or against it, I just go on my own personal experiences which began before I ever heard of John Eberhart. Since 2003 when I tried my first scent lok garment, I have been getting closer and better bucks ever since. I notice a difference in deer behavior. Not their complete unawareness Im there, but they seem confused and possibly thinking there is a human presence, but probably farther away than they think. I never get blown out anymore as long as I follow my scent regimen. Scent lok has given me many reasons to believe it helps suppress odor.....I wouldn't buy it if I honestly see a difference. Funny part is....when I first starting reading Johns books during the years of experimenting with scent lok, I was noticing the same results he was. Does science support it? maybe-maybe not. does my success level support it? you betcha.....
I would pay 100% attention to the wind even while I am wearing scent protective gear and scent free spray. Even doing this you will get busted occasionally!
Boothill mentioned he has books. I do not know. All I know is what I read in a magazine today. I have not read a magazine in years but am on vacation and started getting this mag for free for some reason so I tossed it in the bag. I am not trying to discredit him - I simply found that quote incredulous. For all we know - could have been taken totally out of context.
razorhead,
go to his website, dearjohn.net I think...
1)Hunting Pressured Whitetails. 2)precision bowhunting 3) bowhunting whitetails the eberhart way.
Most of his hunts are Clair County MI.
I think some of the success beating a deers nose has more to do with the weather and geographic location than what the hunter does to controll their scent. In extremely dry climates with low humidity scent doesn't carry as well in the air and doesn't stick to things like it does in more humid conditions. The right conditions occur more regularly in some areas of the country and that makes it alot easier and some of the credit goes to scent reducing products when it wouldn't have mattered what was sprayed onto the hunter. Here in the south there are very few days when the deer can't smell you but it does occur, mostly in the morning on clear cold days but I have seen it happen in the evening with an east wind. East winds mean a front is coming from the west and that creates a draft toward the west with a slight lift. Your scent stream will go over deer. South winds go to the ground. I have seen extremely dry north winds produce conditions where rabbit digs couldn't follow rabbits that jumped up right in front of there noses. I have seen misty conditions push scent off my body and deposit it on brush 5 yards down wind from the trail I walked in on and deer would smell my scent hours later on the brush even though I didn't touch it physically.
TBM - u are correct. Some days I feel invisible. Some days I feel like I rolled in sh#t despite my best efforts. Barometer has a lot to do with it.
Im in western PA...its always foggy, raining, snowing or about to do all of the above....we get no breaks in Fall, LOL....
I hang stands based on wind direction and then pay attention to the wind from the start of the hunt until the end. I do not wear some sort of scent control clothing very often...seems to work for me.
If I remmeber correctly in "Bowhunting Pressured Whitetails" he uses a treesling in trees that he's previosly setup with steps and goes really high. Like 30 feet plus. That might have more to do with his scent control than the clothes he's wearing or what he brushes his teeth with.
30+? Now THERE'S a great shot angle!
Jhon has two great books out! I have learned alot from them! The 2 i know he has out are Bowhunting Pressured Whitetails, and Precision Bowhunting. I consider john to be the Larry Benoit of bowhunting! He mainly hunts in Michigan on public land! He has shot some slobs!
I have one stand on public land, I try to set it I up for the normal wind direction we see here which is West to North West. I have to drive over an hour to go hunting, so I go no matter the wind and hope if they come in wrong that my scent goes over them. Heck I'm lucky to find a cottonwood that I can safely hang a tree stand in that's close to the trail I want to hunt.
Boothill - thanks so much I will do that. My buddys says they are advertised in Woods and Water Mag, (Michigan magazine)........
I will be making an order this week....
Also thanks to Shedhead
I live NH and we do have some pressure! I hunt all public land and have shot a few deer bowhunting! I still have never shot a wall hanger with my bow but i keep trying! September 15 cant come soon enough!
my pleasure razor....sure you'll enjoy them, good luck!!!
John and a Chris are both great writers and accomplished hunters. No pay to hunt ranches or leases. 100% public or knock on doors private - no many exchanged.
Tree saddle was a sponsor, but sadly they are out of buisness.
The methods used by John and his sons are effective. Chris traveled to MA a few years ago and took a very respectable but with a bow from the ground. Most locals won't even attempt it let alone succeed.
I also don't care about scent. Simply put, deer down wind will smell you. I don't need carbon clothes, the act of breathing will help deer detect me.
GED, very true. I think the key is that through: a good washing regimine, carbon clothes if you see value in them, proper hunting height and proper timing on entering and exiting your stand,making the deer think you are a little or a lot farther away than you really are thus allowing themselves to move naturally. fooling deer about your proximity to them is the key, not thinking they just don't know your there at all.
The biggest game changer John hit me with was the ultra early entrance into your stand. This has paid dividends for me in evening and morning. 2 best bucks of my life were taken because I started this procedure. Most people simply wont do it. I believe it is simply the biggest upgrade to your bowhunting you can implement.
John Eberhart has been a blessing to me through his books and in emailing w/ him. a more decent man you wouldn't find and he's all business when it comes to whitetails. His techniques have given me hope ( and results!!!) in our ever shrinking hunting land as viable big buck habitat for those that'll hunt it hard and better than the competition. I just cant say that anyone has had the impact on my hunting like he has and Ive bowhunted for almost 40 years now. I cant say anyone else has his pedigree of giant mature whitetails taken in a workingman's environment. If you want to up your game, his books are a better investment than a lease in iowa.
TBM and Jack X2. I noticed a big difference between hunting in East Texas ( almost always high humidity ) and hunting in Central Texas ( almost always low humidity ). I have had deer walk around me in a circle out on my Central Texas lease and not smell me because of a gentle breeze carrying my scent over their heads. And I was in a twelve foot tripod ! Couldn't get any higher out there without being over the tree tops. LOL. Not so here in East Texas. Damn scent goes straight to the ground in the woods and pools. I have started hunting out of my homemade bow blinds almost exclusively trying to contain my scent. Use the scent killing products, use the wind, and hope for the best.
I agree with most of what John said but I don't buy special clothing. In many places I hunt the deer can come from all directions. I just use common sense about smell. I use scent free All detergent, scent free dryer sheets and once dressed go straight to my stand. In 15 years of bow hunting I can count the times I've been winded on one hand. I hunt very open country and see deer coming from far off so I know if they wind me. I'm nearly certain every time I've been winded they(does no bucks) smelled the trail I walked in on when they crossed it. I know people will say I'm crazy but its worked for me. The 2 biggest deer I've targeted I killed with the "wrong wind". Now go ahead and tell me how I'm wrong. Maybe my deer are stupid compared to yours but I don't ever worry about getting winded. I will say the county i hunt has roads nearly every square mile with lots of oil leases so deer smell people all the time and could be desensatized to some extent. Elk are completely different wind is absolute must with them.
If these scent control gimmicks really worked, everybody that uses them would be shooting the biggest bucks every year. Since that doesn't happen, they don't work. They do however give some people confidence but, this confidence may be hurting more than it helps.
I have never hunted the wind myself either!
1B,
Though wind/scent is a large part of archery deer hunting, it is far from the entire picture. I agree that scent control is mostly hype, stating that if it worked "everybody that uses them would be shooting the biggest bucks every year" is not factual.
I pay attention to it but don't worry about it. Most of the deer I kill come in down wind. they won't come in here if the wind isn't blowing to them until after dark here in NC.LH
John Eberhart? I have never heard of the guy.... Seriously..
Anyhow, I hunt using the wind....
>>>>-------->
I pay attention to the wind. If a product existed that eliminated the need to pay attention to the wind, I don't think I would buy it. Same with a product that guaranteed I was invisible or allowed me to sneak on deer with zero chance of making noise.
Reward is directly tied to effort, challenge and risk. What makes killing whitetails challenging is what makes killing whitetails rewarding. Everyone has their idea of where that balance is. For me, total scent elimination would be stealing from my own reward.
While the wind is an important factor, I think we often overplay it,s importance. I do nearly all of my hunting in Kansas farm country, and I can assure you that the deer smell human odor every day. While I pay more attention to the wind hunting does, I've had too many bucks, and some very nice ones disregard scent during the rut. On more than a handful of times I've had mature bucks cross my trail and even come upwind to me during the rut if I'm using a doe in heat cover scent. I'm not advocating going into the woods reeking of cigarettes or anything like that but I think too many of us try to spend money on that perfect cure all, when all we need are better hunting skills.
BigDan can throw a cow call away. I cannot!
These guys have to say something different or it is the same old mantra.
I do agree that if you use scent elimination products that you can reduce some of the scent.
I also have two deer that gross 170 plus and both times I played the wind perfectly withe the set up. I only have two and I can tell you a couple others that got blown out by the wind.
A man would be foolish to not plan for the wind because a mature buck does so most of the time. This is why so many times you have him pegged but you are waiting for the that non standard wind.
We may over play the wind but that may be because we do not know when it is going to matter.
I know we have all heard deer blow from distances that they could not have heard us. normally the blowing is as the deer is departing.
I do not need someone to tell me to not pay attention to the wind when the wind has got me busted on numerous occasions.
I do notice that he from Michigan and probably hunts flat land where the terrain does not dictate movement. In flatter country I find it easier to cheat the wind but in hilly country this is much more difficult.
I cannot echo this by Dan Van enough!!!
" when all we need are better hunting skills"
scent control opinions aside, this is the biggest reason to check out John. probably the best advice EVERYONE can benefit from.
Deer pay attention to the wind.
After 50 years of bowhunting John Eberhart seems to be a rather foolish fellow...or maybe he justs thinks those reading such crap are fools.
I once had a veteran whitetail hunter tell me that the best cover scent was "Old English Leather" after shave lotion. I responded, really you are kidding me. He stated yes, because if you go in the woods wearing "Old English Leather" you mostly certainly are going to pay attention to the wind direction if you want to be successful. His point was you have to pay attention to the wind direction, that there is no cover scent or scent eliminator (or Old English Leather - just kidding of course)that would allow you to forget about the wind. He also had numerous trophy bucks (no books) on his wall validating his successes.
That's the tree saddle guy, correct? Love a bunch of his tree saddle knowledge and advice, great stuff. He's a killer for sure.
I don't use a stand often, but when I do it's a tree saddle.....
Honestly I'd take the saddle over any treestand, hands down. So flexible and easy to shoot from, gotten to where leaning into it, it's almost like using a rest for a rifle. Too bad they aren't around anymore, still wonder what happened to them when used ones on ebay are getting more than they were new....
wind is a b-i-itch of a girlfriend... I'm obviously not living a clean enough life to ignore it..... friends say it could be the cigars.....
" I'm not advocating going into the woods reeking of cigarettes or anything like that"
Why not? I smoke in the stand and tag out every year. I have had to put my cigarette down many times to take my shot. lol...I need to quit so I don't get lung cancer but IMO cigarette smoke doesn't seem to bother the deer all that much but human scent sure does if it is within a certain distance or strength level. I know deer can smell me at times and often when they do they will move out of range but not bolt to the next county like some deer do that are not use to human odor. I hunt areas now where the deer are used to human scent and my opinion is deer know the safety zone based on how strong the human odor is. It is just a theory.
Just remember kids not everything you read is true.
hammer if you quit you will for sure sing a new tune about hunting and smoking. you are just saying what all the smokers tell themselves. Sure we have all put out smokes to shoot deer...but if you quit you will get more and better deer unless you have some other bad hunting habits that make you move around a lot. I know this from experience.
all I can say is that anyone who doesn't pay attention to the wind will find themselves hunting very unproductively sometimes.
Straight,
I agree with the wind part 100% but the smoking part has never really affected me negatively that I have seen and I wont change my tune on that for a reason. You see I have a lot of critter kills including a crap ton of deer. I have many big and many small. Many came before I started smoking and many came after. It is not something I just tell myself either because I know how hunting went for me before I started smoking and after and I have seen no real noticeable change from when I was not a smoker.
On the other hand I have ALWAYS paid close attention to the wind
On the other hand I have killed deer where my smoke and scent was blowing right at the deer I shot and everything should have been all wrong. Naturally I don't smoke like a chimney but I do not think it has much of an impact. One of the best hunters I know was a smoker and has killed some of the nicest bucks I have seen.
You ever put old tobacco out and see what a deer does to it? I know guys who make their hunting camos smell like smoke on purpose so I don't think smoke scent has much impact either way. Who knows but either way I can think of wayy better reasons to quite smoking. lol..
Bottom line is if you play the wind right scent matter little
Someone told me once that the Eberharts do indeed hunt on public most of the time, but most of it is land-locked by private. I guess that's public...kinda.
Does he hunt in a stand or on the ground? I bet if he hunted on the ground wouldn't make that statement. Get up high enough in a treestand probably does more than any scent eliminater products. I'd like to see him come out west and do some spot and stalk in animals with scent control to see if it works as well as being 20 feet up in a treestand. I read an article some years back by a longbow hunter that wore Levi's and a red plaid shirt doing a successful spot and stalk on an antelope. He thought camo was bunk. Spot and stalk an antelope! He had skills! He maybe giving scent control more credit than its due. He might have some real wisdom on where he puts stands, height and when to hunt certain areas based on weather conditions. It would be interesting if he tried not using any of it and see if he had the same success?
I used a treestand for the first time deer hunting this year. It took one day for me to realize when to hunt there. Based on a lot of trail cam pictures I knew a certain buck was showing up around 7 am and about 12 hours later in the evening. He was coming from the west towards the stand. I was there before sunrise and there was a breeze at my back blowing towards the west. Nothing came in. In the evening the wind came from the west towards me. Two different bucks came in during the evening. With that information I never went back in the morning. Two evenings latter I shot my buck. Another guy used the stand and shot his in the evening. A third guy was trying to get a buck that was coming in everyday. He was there moringing and evening in the stand for four days in a row. Not one deer showed up at that camera and stand for over a week at any hour. This is a low stand too. I could say that stand should just be used in the evening with scent control. My gut feeling is he has a lot of instincts that he takes for granted. The rest of us could go hunt the same area in a zip lock bag and not be as successful.
I know from reading some of his stuff he packed into many places he hunted a good distance (thus the tree saddle and not fixed stands).
I love spot and stalk hunting but also know spot and stalk works best when a person can see over 50-100 yards.... which depending on topography is simply not possible in many areas. Or small places where hunting it lightly and low pressure is critical. And I know plenty of places in the west you could sit in a tree all season long and never get a shot. Much of hunting success is applying the right tactics to the situation.
I can't speak to this "zero attention to the wind" statements but pretty sure he has a fairly sound strategy figured out to back up his words. I'd bet on it.
if he pays zero attention to the wind he's an idiot
That's sort of strong there rershooter! Dead on accurate, but strong. :)
The wind is the very "first" thing I pay attention to. And when I haven't, the deer have !!
What does public or private land have to do with this?
Having no concern of the wind is just a silly notion... Certainly some deer can be (and are) killed that smell human, but they are either too young/dumb or are all jacked up on sex(dumb).
I think that the overall text chosen here is taken out of context, however... I may be wrong though?
No doubt about it, you can ignore the wind and still kill a deer, one every season, but you will see and have the opportunity to kill far more if you accept the importance of the wind. Kind of hard to argue about really.
Duke I quoted magazine word for word. I suspect they took him out of context or he was being sarcastic.
Woodsman416 x2
The only way I can make the wind a non factor is to hunt high, John does.
A lot of talk on this subject , just ask your self this and be honest. Have you ever had a coyote come in to your stand when the wind was wrong ?
All I know is that some of the biggest bucks I have ever seen have come in from the total opposite direction then anticipated with there butts to the wind!!I think that in areas of heavy pressure the deer are a little more tolerant of human scent and in more remote areas just a hint scent sends them packing,at least in my experience!!
I love the quote by Gene Wensel. "if scent suppressant products work so well then how come I can still smell a fart thorough carbon pants" Even a successful hunter will be more so by paying special attention to wind detail.
why is gene wensel going around smelling farts is my question.....
Does he hunt thirty feet in a tree?
he would do even better if he paid attention to the wind also. Not paying attention to the wind is bad advice.
