SAFARI NORDIK SCAMMIN HUNTERS
Caribou
Been scheduled to hunt with safari nordik since 2012 and still not hunt. Paid in full and they cancelled again this year. Is there anyone else out there going thru the same thing?
That is sad I feel for you and the others that have been taken,What excuse did they give you this year ?
Nicholas Laurin owner or safari nordik told me he spent all our money last year to take hunters last year. We all paid in full. $21,000.00 from our group. They took new hunters this year instead of the 221 that paid in full. Have you heard of this outfit?
And why haven't you taken them to court?
I had to edit my original post due to feeling bad over expressing my initial reaction. After calming down and realizing that isn't the way the Good Lord wants me to be, I'd have to try to see if I could pursue legal options. I understand from past posts that has ended in failure. Good luck and God Bless
This same thing happened last year. I believe they lied to everyone then as well and made promises of refunds or return trips. Best advice for anyone is stay clear of them. And go with JHA.
at some point in time you can't fix stupid. the burner on the stove is hot. if you get burned year after year it's you fault. people are accountable for the choices they make when information is readily available.
Bou,
I think you are being too harsh on the guy. I sounds like he booked in 2012, and got postponed twice. That's not "a repeated offense".
I agree that the only guy to book with is Hume, too bad some didn't listen to that. Safari Nordik use to advertise guaranteed hunts, that lured a lot of people in. Richard always said that he would do the best he could to get you to the point that it was all up to you.
TBB
I have hunted with Safari Nordik a few years ago and the trip was great. Friends have hunted with them 3 times the last time being last year with no problems. Guess times change.
Why would you pay in full before you even get there? isn't the second half due when you arrive in camp?
Well, after seeing repeated threads on Safari Nordik over the years this does not surprise me in the least! :( They may not screw everyone, but it appears enough people get screwed on a regular basis it should send up major red flags!
Scroll down and read: SAFARI NORDIK RIPPING OFF HUNTERS thread. It is locked, so I can;t reply and bring it to the top.
We booked in 2012, 2013 spring my father had to have a major surgury so we called safari and asked if we should postpone or the rest of our party come in 2013 they said no just postpone but we will need the payment paid in full.
On july 4 2014 cancelled this septembers hunt saying that they have no tags, we asked for money back and they said NO.
I am in the process of legal action and also taking them before SCI so they cannot go to major shows like vegas or dallas.
Want to see and contact the other 221 hunters so we can meet at there booths and make sure they do not book new hunters.
I have been on hunts all over the world for years and never had a problem.
The main problem is they are taking new hunters and leaving the 221 paid customers out as they blame there goverment. we gave him $21,000.00
Contact me if you have had this same issue
The problem with these operations, they use your deposits and paid in full hunts to fund their current years activities. By the time your hunt is up, the money you paid has long since been spent. I was one that got taken for $5+ thousand from Tuttulik. There was basically no recourse with the court system or the Quebec Government. From all accounts over the years, it appears the only Outfitter in that area to consider would be Hume, The Outfitters in Quebec, have proven time and again they are not trustworthy, the government is not interested in protecting the consumer, I would not risk my money in Quebec again except for Hume.
I've read way to much about hunters getting ripped off in Quebec to ever even consider booking a hunt there !! Hope it all works out for you and your group.
Myself along with 2 of my friends are also part of the 231 hunters being screwed.
We booked with a down payment in March of 2013 for the last week of September hunt. I found the April release from the government on the tag availability that same May and contacted them and was assured there were no issues for them with tags. We had to pay the balance by the end of June and did so. That August they cancelled our hunt. I had multiple conversations with these crooks and no refunds. I contacted an attorney in Montreal and they wanted $2,500 just to write them a letter.
We were assured in late 2013 by these guys we would hunt in 2014. Again they booked approximately 100 new hunters, didn't get enough tags, and left the 231 previously postponed flapping in the breeze.
The 3 of us booked the platinum package without air at $7250 each. If you take 231 hunters at an average of just $6000 each, that is almost $1.4Million they have stolen. They continually say they have spent the money. ON WHAT??? they haven't flown us anywhere, feed us or guided us. I understand not having control of the government and the tags but not refunding the money is criminal.
I have been personally told by Nick that if they get sued he plans to file bankruptcy and walk away.
I have spoken to the Quebec tourism board and 2 separate consulates and they do not seem to care. Our only recourse is to pursue this criminally. Maybe a class action lawsuit against real property or funds but I doubt we will ever see a dime or a hunt. We as sportsman should boy-cot Quebec until something is done.
There is an investigator with the Secret Service from Texas looking into this also. I do not want to release his name without permission but if anyone else wants to contact him and relate there experience dealing with these guys and their paperwork, please contact me for the details. I also have 2 high profile hunting media personalities involved as of this past Tuesday and they are also perusing SCI repercussions.
I have been patient long enough and want to see some justice. These folks should not be allowed to continue doing business regardless if we get our money or not!
BOYCOTT QUEBEC!!!!! Maybe that will get someone in the Governments attention to do something about this
No outfitter, ever, should use money paid by one hunter to outfit a different guy. That's simply bad practice in any industry. We used to run into it all the time in the construction business, you can't use one job to finance another, it will get you sued every time...
I've been wanting to do a Quebec caribou hunt for a few years now - every time I get ready to book one, another group(s) of hunters come forward with more horror stories about getting screwed out of thousands of dollars.
It would be nice to see Quebec do something about these thief's, until they do, my $ will be spent elsewhere.
I also forgot to mention I Found an article on the internet about a month ago from the local news paper in Kuujjuaq which is where they fly the hunters via jet from Montreal. The article was an interview with a hunter who got bumped like us, but obviously could afford to buy another hunt. The article was biased at best, I emailed them with the facts and haven't heard a word since.
Last August (2013) when this first started developing, I also contacted Keith Warren, John Manns, Colorado Buck and Micheal Waddell as I have seen all these guys on TV at Safari Nordiks camps. I spoke to John and traded several emails with Keith but no help. I never heard from Colorado Buck or Micheal Waddell.
AN out right boycott would do nothing but hasten the total loss for the hunters that booked this trip... Taking them to court is a losing proposition, they probably have little to no tangible assets. bankruptcy would solve nothing as there inst any thing to liquidate.
What if an organizational body of all the hunters affected was to formed for representation , they then can negotiate with this outfitter and they come up with a plan to make amends...for example we know its not possible fore all these hunts to be for-filled in the coming season, (even though that correct thing) but what if it was spread out over say 5 years for example until everyone was made whole.
We have been lied to for over 18 months and to book Would you trust these guys for the next 5 years? Would you want to sit around on a maybe and pass up or not book other hunts not knowing if you were going to get to go our not, only to find out in the late summer every year and its too late to book with someone else?
Booking 100 new hunters with no attempt to try and make some of the 231 whole again this year is also criminal. I do not trust them any longer to do the right thing and I certainly do not trust we would be put in productive camps. They will be out of business in 5 years anyway at this rate. They have spent the money and although unlikely, the only option I see is a government backed bailout or assistance. If we cannot get our money or our hunts they should not be allowed to continue to do business.
It is unfortunate that bad apples effect the basket however, the only way this will get resolved is to get the media and the government involved to threaten hunting and tourist dollars.
BOYCOTT QUEBEC
While it's a good thought on paper to try to work a deal out to make everyone whole over a period of time, it's not realistically going to happen. They don't have the money to take those affected hunting. also, imagine if actually got to go and during your hunt, the plug was pulled on the operation, it would be a real circus act to try and get home.
... the answer is:
Due diligence... trust, but verify.
There is no answer...they have lost their money. It happened to a bunch of us prior to this with a different outfitter in Quebec.
I think that was what Bou was getting at earlier. If you don't give due diligence in vetting an outfitter before writing a 6k check, it's what you have coming to you. Sorry for you guys that have been scammed. It's a hard lesson to learn but something I suspect you won't let happen again.
Well sometimes all the research in the world yields nothing but rave reviews. Which was the case with Tuttiluk. No one saw that coming.
BB is 100% correct about tutulick.
That operation was as well run it at the front of the house is any you would find........ logistically...... from the success rate standpoint .........equipment......... hunting grounds.......... transportation....... track record......... solid references........ the whole works.
they were even sponsors on this site, hosted semiilive hunts and booked entire camps under the bowsite flag.........in fact a bowsite camp was one of the groups that lost all they money. no warning. no preparation. from best in class referecnes to criminal activity and over 1M stolen from hunters.
One would've found nothing prior to the day they declared bankruptcy to indicate risk or exposure for those that were booking trips there. I hunted with them three times with very good success on three consecutive years and was actually the last group that they outfitted for.
In fact when we flew out we locked the camp behind us midseason. I think the Safari Nordique situation is different in that there have been stories and issues with that organization for a long time and people have been taking risks by continuing to book there.
I just might book with JHA for the next five years to ensure my yearly hunting trip with them. With the quality trip he provides he very well could be the last man standing up there. Lot of guys jumping on the JHA band wagon and I want to keep my yearly spot with them. See you on the tundra. Rory
boycotting quebec will have no impact on the bad operations who are already under fire and the good operations are always going to survive based on their record and passionate clientel.
some personal boycott revenge may make some samll number of individuals feel better, feel more in control, etc. but it will not impact the industry, the quebec economy, or good outfits.............nor should it.
in the end guys booked with Safari Nordik for one reason...........they wanted to go on a great caribou hunt and experience something new........OK sorry......so that did not happen with that operation.
but...........
the dream that originally motivated them to book remains, that unscratched itch to visit the tundra and hunt the caribou still burns unfilled in those hunters..........a wise person would separate the well placed short term anger at a single business entity from noble pursuit of the lifetime memory of a good hunt in a wild place..........
those people should book with a reputable operation who can make your experience what you wanted when you originally booked with the wrong place. Look at JHA and focus on the future which you can impact and not the past which you can't
The old Quebec caribou ponzi scheme!
I disagree with with not boycotting Quebec. When the tourist industry and Province starts losing money they will be force to hold these outfits accountable.
The boycotters will miss more than the province will Lip service action with no impact other than fewer hunters having great experiences and memories.
Sorry Bou, but you are completely wrong about doing nothing. The ONLY way to get anything done is to hit that Province the only place that will get their attention. Money! If enough people actually stopped spending money with any and every business up there, including Hume, the government would have to do something. You want a great hunt? With the countries government on YOUR side? Spend your money in ALASKA! OUR COUNTRY! You have the court system on your side, not the governments like in all the Canadian Provences. Two years ago Tutulik, this year Safari Nordic, who's next year? Hume? Oh no, don't say that, he's a sponsor! Sorry, no sympathy for anyone still spending any money in Canada.
Just out of curiosity Bou....What makes you think that the Tuttiluk sceneario can't happen again with JHA or any other up to now reputable Quebec outfitter? Looks to me like a profitable, if not honorable, way for an operator to exit the outfitting business with a real retirement nest egg. As long as one is sure the provincial government isn't going to do anything there is not much to worry about.
I never said it could not happen. I said hunters boycotting a couple remaining caribou outfitters is irrelevant to the provincial economic engine and in the end the hunters will miss out on more than the government or outfitters will. it may be a feel good action but nothing more. No impact. Immaterial
after Tuttulik caribou scam a few year ago I swore NEVER to take my money to Canada again
sorry to hear the continued fleecing/rip off's of American hunters ... if for 5 years American hunters took their money to someonewhere other than Canada, big changes would occur IMO
The problem isn't with the rest of Canada...it's with Quebec.
I guess I'd agree with Bou on the overall effect of a Boycott. For me the bottom line is that there seems to be some risk booking Caribou hunts in Quebec that is, based on available information, higher than the risk of booking in other areas where Caribou are hunted. This risk could be related to Quebec outfitters honesty or it might be simple luck of the draw over the last few years. In any case the risk in Quebec seems higher than elsewhere so I'll take my money elsewhere.
In my own defense as I am a Quebec outfitter and a Boycott would not do me any good!
1. Jack Hume Adventures has been in operation for over 30 years with a very clean track record (as clean as any other outfitter in Alaska or any where else in North America! As a matter of fact I have returned $75 000.00 worth of deposit money to our hunters when I did not feel we had enough caribou to hold our trophy hunt. (No one asked for a refund I signed the checks and sent it to them and offered them to rebook when they wanted to and if they wanted to. Not to my benefit but to their benefit!
2. I have not only remained in business while my competition has all but fallen apart but I have continued to take over the hunting camps of other outfitters who were no longer able to remain profitable.
We now operate from not only our own original JHA camps but also have full access to all of Arctic Adventure's camps, Luco camps, Caribou Adventure's camps and most recently gained access to Explo Sylva and Delay River hunting camps. Bearing in mind that I did all of this after I was forced to abandon my own base and camps east of Schefferville due to the closure of the George River herd. I might add that I am the sole owner of Jack Hume Adventures and have full control over our operation. I don't have to answer to anyone and don't owe anyone a red cent.
3. Last but not least there are less than a hand full of Quebec caribou outfitters left to choose from and I can guarantee that Quebec would not be the least bit concerned if the American public were to Boycott those few remaining outfitters. Our contribution to the Quebec economy is extremely minimal and nobody other than our own hunters and our employees would miss us if we were no longer in operation.
So long story short. I am one of the few remaining outfitters. We have done absolutely nothing to wrong any of our clients throughout the over 30 years that our family business has been in operation.
Although I am not a rich man and may never be. I have learned to run a tight ship and stay within my budget each year avoiding financial difficulties and most of all I truly enjoy doing what I do and want to continue doing so. I would never intend on ripping off anyone and anyone who knows me would realize that. I would hang my hat and give back every last dollar collected before I would dishonour myself like that. What impact will Boycotting hunting caribou in Quebec have. At best it would a guy like me out of business, hunters would have one less species of caribou to hunt and one less place to hunt caribou. Other than that a boycott would accomplish absolutely nothing as the caribou hunting industry in Quebec is such a very small contributor to the economy. My advise is that anyone booking a hunt in Quebec should first call up our Quebec Outfitter's Association and find out if any complaints are on file for the chosen outfit. At the very least find out if the outfitter is still a member in good standing of the Outfitter's Federation.
Time for me to get back to what I should be doing, concentrating on where the caribou are and where our hunters need to be next!
Later...
Richard
Richard and Amanda set the bar for what an ethical and hardworking outfitter should be. I had my 3rd hunt set with them for this September, but due to circumstances here, had to cancel after putting down a thousand on the hunt. I called Richard and his response? He was sorry I could not hunt with him again this year and asked if I wanted to simply put it ahead to a 2015 hunt? I had booked before we knew if the 2014 season would be one caribou or two (did not matter to me either way), and Richard said if I wanted to cancel for any reason - no problem. He would refund my money. They take care of you before, during and after your hunt. Trust is earned in this world and Richard and Amanda have mine. Period. See you next September.
Have never hunted with JHA (hunted with Tuttiluk when they were still good), but if I wanted to hunt Quebec again I would not hesitate to book with him. I agree with Richard, why would anyone want to hurt the honest hard working Outfitter. Just do your homework and spend your money where you feel comfortable doing so. There are just as many horror stories here in the states with bad Outfitter, guy's who claim to be outfitters that are not etc. Even with our courts and legal system far too many bad apples get away without being punished.
I would contact my local senator and ask for help as a citizen and at bare minimum the US Ambassador to Canada.
honestly if my senator is spending time on foreign hunting operations i hope he loses office. we have enough other things a little more important for them to focus on.
2015 will be my 15th year hunting with JHA. Never had one issue or problem with them, ever. They will bend over backwards to keep you happy and safe and I trust them completely with my money. It pays to get to know your outfitter, stick with them over the years, and develop a relationship with them. Don't just jump at any out fitter that may sound a little cheaper. It will cost you in the long run. Looking forward to hunting with JHA again next year and I firmly believe I can call Amanda and Richard and all of their crew GOOD FRIENDS. See you on the tundra. Rory
Outfitters must have learned how to apply a ponzi scheme to their business....They MADOFF with the money.
I have to agree with most of you on this site,unfortunately a Boycott will do nothing to persuade the Quebec Government do anything as my son Richard said. With only a handful of Outfitters still offering Quebec Labrador Caribou Hunts " Our contribution to the Quebec economy is extremely minimal and nobody other than our own hunters and our employees would miss us if we were no longer in operation." I first stated guiding caribou hunters in Northern Quebec in 1972 more than 42 years ago, and I can assure you that no one can come on this site and say that "The Hume,s" have ever taken money from clients unfairly and have always treated cancellations and deposits on an individual bases ,fairly and have returned many over the years that we were justified in keeping. When we had situations that we knew there would be no caribou in our camps , we cancelled the hunts and offered our clients to Return the Following Year or returned there money , no postponing or keeping their money. Richard grew up in the business and realized that to be successful you had to earn the Trust of our clients , provide the Best Service possible and above all be Honest . To provide this kind of service cost money , Outfitters who cut prices on their hunts had to cut services to try make a profit , ending up with dissatisfied clients that started a downward spiral and eventually bankruptcy or closing their doors. I am so proud of all the compliments that Richard and Amanda are receiving on this site, and I am sure if some one has a complaint that Richard will handle it with respect and if it was something that JHA was at fault he will see that it is corrected . Thank You all for making JHA the Most Trusted Outfitter in Quebec and maybe Canada. Good Hunting
"I would contact my local senator and ask for help as a citizen and at bare minimum the US Ambassador to Canada."
Oh yeah, I'm sure they'll get right on it! :)
I repeat....If it were me....I'd contact my local congressmen/senator and at bare minimum the Canadian Ambassador. Thats what they are there for. To represent us when we have issues and take our concerns up the political flag pole.
It sure couldn't hurt and it seems these 221 guys are getting no where. A letter from a US Senator to the outfitter to inquire could go a long way to getting an agreement of some sort.
I wouldn't be too quick to discount this. But then again it's up to you.
This has been going on since 2009. The U.S. government has contacted officials in Canada an can't get. Any where with them. At one point they made a attempt at legal action but the case has since been dismissed.
I lost 5,300 in 2008 so I know the pain !!! been there done that. Quebec suxs in many ways not one once of help from the Quebec outfitters assc or the Quebec govt I did get a letter from quebec Govt saying they will not help in any shape or form.
Best of luck , louis
"I did get a letter from quebec Govt saying they will not help in any shape or form. Best of luck , louis"
If what you say is true, you should post a picture of that letter to prove it, and let the rest of the hunters know what the Quebec Government thinks of the Americans who want to spend money there. That statement you just made, allowed me to make the decision of a Quebec Caribou hunt being in my future or NOT.
Mike I will try and dig it up It was in 2008 Mike if u dig up old treads on tuttulik u can see all the BS we American hunters went thru.
"The problem isn't with the rest of Canada...it's with Quebec."
Exactly bb! I've hunted in numerous provinces and had great experiences. There is no more trust, but verify with Quebec.
For what it's worth, I got screwed by Tuttulik like many others here. I asked RMCP to open a criminal investigation. They politely declined to pursue an investigation and stated it was a civil matter, even though I CITED chapter and verse of the criminal statutes that were violated.
The Outfitters Association is in the best position to police there own, but refuse to do so.
I WAS TAKEN YEARS AGO IN QUEBEC ON A HUNT I go to Newfoundland now for big game hunts.
Why anyone would go to Quebec now is beyond me...
Why spend your hard earned money in a territory that doesn't care one bit about you...Just the $$$$..
"Why anyone would go to Quebec now is beyond me..."
I understand why SOME may not go based on a business principle and the desire to make a statement, but if someone needs to see why anyone WOULD go you need look no further than a number of the cartibou threads from JHA this fall.
I don't think you would find anyone amoung his hunters, probably 220 this year, who would be in the "Why anyone would go to Quebec now is beyond me..." camp.
Of course what do they know.........they only actually did it vs. passing judgement from afar.
To each his own, but it is always good to at least be informed as to the other point of view on any issue.
