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After hunting a few times with a rock climbing harness, would you ever consider going back to a 4 point harness. If so Why? Lets try to keep responses to those who have actually used a RC harness. In your opinion what are the pros and cons?

The only negative I have seen so far with a rock climbing harness would be the lack of larger sizes to fit over very late season clothing systems. I am lucky to be able to use mine all season, but I could see some larger guys having a size issue.

It also shows the stabilizing straps to secure the top and bottom sections together when climbing and sitting as well as for packing in and out. They are made by thirdhandarchery.com

mtlover, there is no chance you can hang upside down with the RC harness. Plus with the leg loops you won't get suspension trauma like with the 4pt.

First, climbers are in superior shape, more than able usually to perform a self rescue, and most never climb alone.

Hunters hunt alone quite often, and most hunters are not nearly in the same physical condition as climbers.

Climbers expect to fall, and do so quite often, thus enjoying a learning curve and a gain of experience.

Hunters never expect a fall, and are rarely in the same position to brace for a fall that climbers are, but the smart ones are prepared for one - using a 4 point harness.

Tony

Climbers are usually statically and firmly attached to the dynamic ropes - meaning almost no free fall, and a huge shock absorber of the dynamic kermantle climbing ropes used.

Not so with a tree stand. You have to have slack so you can move a tad to draw your bow and shoot - thus you have free fall slack.

When your Harness reaches the end of that slack, the force is equal to 2600 pounds. Now, if you are using a hunting harness with a built in shock absorber web, coupled with a purssic rope, that force can be reduced to under 800 pounds, thus less force your your body.

But if you have on a RC Harness, connected dead to the tree trunk, get ready for some injury, and maybe the disability of a self rescue.

Guys, both OSHA and the Tree Stand Manufacturers Association recommend a 4 point harness for hunting.

The RC Harness absolutely, just by sheer physics, has no place in a hunting situation.

I climb daily for a living, and have fell. I have even fallen once from a tree while hunting. Each time I had on a four point harness that saved my life.

I could tell you some stories about rappelling while in the Marines, using other type harnesses, but the 4 pt is best for hunting.

Photo: 80 foot Radar tower in California.

Wear a four point harness and save yourselves.

Tony

After hunting a few times with a rock climbing harness, would you ever consider going back to a 4 point harness. If so Why? Lets try to keep responses to those who have actually used a RC harness. In your opinion what are the pros and cons?

Sitting in a stand or climber with the RC is comfortable, the rope wraps around your side to the tree and is easily adjusted. You can turn right or left without that darn rope in your way like with the above-head attachment of the 4pt.

tonyo6302, with the rope properly attached at waist height to the tree, there should be little slack in the rope. You should fall no more than 3-4 feet. Does that equal 2600 pounds? And who says you cannot use a Dynamic rope?

I just re-completed Fall Protection Training this week at work. I got copies of the Slide Presentation on my desk, and will answer the 2600 pounds question on Monday. I surely don't want to be wrong at what distance a 200 pound man falling equals 2600 pounds at harness stop, someone might get offended.

;^)

By the way, per OSHA, all personal tie off points for harnesses must support a 5000 pound dead weight. I did remember that from class.

As far as using a dynamic rope, all store bought Prussic Systems that I have seen are Dynamic. I have seen more than my fare share of linemans ropes that were not. And of course climbing rope systems are dynamic. I didn't mean to imply you cannot use a dynamic rope to attach to the tree or prussic rope, you probably should.

Here is another con: The Harness I had back in California, ' bout 25 years ago, had it caribiner attachment in the front. So if a hunter is setting in the stand when the stand gives way ( happend to a fellow VA Hunter two years ago ), then when you reach the end of your tie off rope, your head gets slammed back into the tree trunk. Hunters usually don't wear climbing helmets. ( Yea, Trial, I have been to El Capitan ) ( I havn't climbed in a long, long time. )

My 4 point harness saved my life, and I performed a self rescue. Injuries of groin muscles and neck soreness for a few days.

At the link, Viper recounts his story of stand failure.

Viper, by the way, is a crack shot with a bow, and a most excellant hunter. He just doesn't post much.

I apologize to all, but I just did not want children and newbies to get the impression from experienced phsically fit climbers, that anything but a 4 point harness was safe.

Tony

From class knowledge this week, your video shows you are jeorardizing youself with your hookup.

If you have a stand failure, your rope was on the side of the tree, Knot on the side, and the end attached to the front center of your harness. So when the rope reaches tension, it is going to throw your head and feet towards the rope knot on the tree, while your waist is still moving down.

This will twist your spine sidways, and would propably injure most hunters. You do look physically fit, however a better rig would be to have two lanyards to the tree, one on each side positioniong loop if you have them.

Case study of a fatal fall in class: a worker was wearing a harness, but had his lanyard attached to one side positioning ring. His harness stopped his fall, but it snapped his spine and killed him, due to the side torque of the lanyard.

Tony

3 feet? Doubt it.

I apologize for my above smartarse comments towards you. Please forgive.

In your falls, you were doing something where you expected to take a fall, and were prepared to take a fall, and did. AN unexpectd fall is just different.

Everytime I fell while climbing, I always got scrapped up at the very least. Heck, the rocks out at Joshua Tree National Monument were so course, you could actually wear out a pair of shoes in one trip, and when you slid or fell, it would take off a couple of layers of skin. I mostly started top roping after loosing so much skin ont the rocks, as I felt top roping was a tad safer and easier - but hey - that is just my opinion.

It is tough trying to convince people contrary to what they are familiar and confortable with using. A couple of years ago, my Stepson and Son In Law decided they wanted to start deer hunting, so I took them. One is a former Marine Recon, and one is still active duty. Both thought I was crazy for installing a Prussic Rope on the Ladder Stands I set up for them. Both were used to hanging upside down by their ankles out of a Huey shooting at people, but I was firm, and after I cought them not attached to the Prussic rope, I told them I would not take them hunting if they were not going to do it safely. They decided they had rather hunt attached, then to not hunt.

Now I admit that I have not always used a Prussic Rope with Ladder Stands. But it sure was funny how my attitude changed when I was doing to put a loved one on a tree stand.

I appreciate your encouragement to continue to watch Safety and OSHA videos. I will, because they were written in blood.

Snapcrackpop,

I am unsure of the fall distance with the worker who hooked to the side. I will see if I can find out for you. You should test your system close to the ground, and tell us what happens. Make sure to wear your helmet if you do. Use a shorter lanyard too.

As I'm standing in my tree this morning, looking at my set-up, I feel very safe AND comfortable. I'll try to video a few falls with my rock climbing harness at a low height and post results. Stay tuned...

I agree with your above statements, especially in regards to just a waist belt. At Quantico Marine Base, 1997 I think it was, a physically fit Staff Sergeant fell and was only wearing a waist belt. He suffocated and died. He hadn't told anyone where he was going, and they found him hanging in the tree the next morning. The waist belt stopped his fall, but ended up killing him in the end.

I think I was wrong, in that if you fall with your rig, your head and feet will be torqued away from your tree knot, causing torque that way. I would also think that when you bottom out with your lanyard, it will twist you around towards the tree, scrapping your shoulder or ribcage against the tree trunk. Looking forward to the videos, so that you can educate us all ont the RC Harness fall.

I think another thing, in that with rock climbing you are facing the rock, and have your hands and feet there to catch yourself. When stand hunting, you are usually facing away from the tree. Definately a different kind of fall.

I guess the real question is, if you feel safe with a RC Harness, would you let your children use the same set up?

Anyway, good luck with your tests. Bow Season opened today, and I am going hunting.

IMO, the RC is more comfortable, smaller, lighter, cheaper, the leg straps won't give you suspension trauma and you face the tree when you fall making a recovery easier.

I do belive you are facing away from the tree while hunting. Most hunters do, and so did you in your video above.

So when all slack is out of your tether, the tether will twist you around. I do not know how fast. Remember, we are talking a surprise fall with your back to the tree.

It takes most humans one third of a second to recognize danger, and another one third of a second to react. So in a surprise fall, you wont start reacting until 0.67 seconds. A re-read of Vipers experience at the link above is recommended.

I am unsure of the distance you can fall in that time, as I forgot my Calculus years ago, something with terminal velocity at 32 feet per second/per second.

s=1/2gt^2

S= distance in meters

g = gravity factor of 9.8

t^2 = time squared

In 0.67 seconds you will drop 2.19 meters, about six feet.

I think most people, like in Vipers example above, reach the end of their tether/lanyard before even knowing what is going on in that 0.67 seconds.

Just be careful, snackcrackpop, if you decide to test your set up facing away from the tree.

Your first fall you tucked into it, but I appreaciate it just the same.

The next two were just about as real as you could do it. Awesome job.

I know it was hard not to brace for the fall. Can you tell us what the rope felt like on your right arm when the tether tightened, especiallay on that last fall?

Would you put your children in a RC vice a 4 pt, after your training session falls.

I noticed you shortened ( wisely ) your tether for your fall demonstrations, as compared to you being able to turn around completely and draw and shoot. What was the pain and shock on your falls, and how much more would you expect with a tether allowing you to turn 360 in your tree stand.

Also, I couldnt't tell on that last fall, but did you bump your head any? It did not look like you did.

Do you think the average hunter has the strength to get back into the stand from the side, like your last fall?

In training, they say that swing falls are the worst, that was your last fall, a swing fall.

That was awesome, and I thank you.

You are a great teacher.

Tony

Tony thank you for those details, it's great to hear it from a professional.

XMan

****YOU'RE WELCOME. I'M GOING TO CUT AND PASTE YOUR QUESTIONS AND ANSWER IN CAPS. (I'm not trying to shout.)

Your first fall you tucked into it, but I appreaciate it just the same.

****I WAS ATTEMPTING TO SHOW A FALL THAT WOULD SIMULATE SOMEONE FALLING ASLEEP.

The next two were just about as real as you could do it. Awesome job.

I know it was hard not to brace for the fall. Can you tell us what the rope felt like on your right arm when the tether tightened, especiallay on that last fall?

****DIDN'T NOTICE THE ROPE UNDER THE ARM AT ALL. IF ANYTHING THE WAIST BELT DIGGING INTO THE FLANK AREA IS THE MOST NOTICEABLE. IF YOU MANAGE TO FALL STRAIGHT DOWN (VERY HARD TO DO) I WOULD EXPECT THE ROPE TO PUSH YOUR SHOULDER FORWARD, MAYBE.

Would you put your children in a RC vice a 4 pt, after your training session falls.

****YEP. PURCHASED ONE FOR THE KIDS LAST WEEK. HE LIKES MINE BETTER. LOL THE CONCERN WITH THE 4PT WOULD BE WORRYING IF HE COULD SELF RESCUE. HE WOULD HAVE MORE TIME IN THE RC TO AVOID SUSPENSION TRAUMA.

I noticed you shortened ( wisely ) your tether for your fall demonstrations, as compared to you being able to turn around completely and draw and shoot. What was the pain and shock on your falls, and how much more would you expect with a tether allowing you to turn 360 in your tree stand.

****IF IT WAS SHORTENED, I MOVED IT MAYBE 4". HONESTLY IT WAS AT "HUNTING LENGTH".

Also, I couldnt't tell on that last fall, but did you bump your head any? It did not look like you did.

****NOT THAT I RECALL....UH, WHAT? jk. I BUMPED MY RIGHT HIP A LITTLE, BUT ENOUGH TO LEAVE A MARK OR BRUISE.

Do you think the average hunter has the strength to get back into the stand from the side, like your last fall?

****MOOT POINT. I think most people would find recovery easier from a RC than the 4pt. It is easier to have the RC harness "properly adjusted" when in the stand IMO. How many hunters have the 4pt "tight" when sitting? In almost all videos I watch those tethers look WAY loose to me. PLUS, with a hang-on you have steps/sticks. With a ladder stand...ladder to grab. Climber...2 sections (unlikely for both to fail at the same time) and you only "climb" trees you can hug, larger than that and you couldn't get the cable around them. (EVERYONE SHOULD CARRY IN A POCKET THEY CAN REACH: A PHONE, KNIFE, AND A SCREW IN STEP OR EXTRA ROPE TO RESCUE.)

****WHILE WE'RE ON THE ISSUE OF "SELF RESCUE", I picked up a great tip while reading these threads. You should carry a second PRUSIC rope, a long one that you can attach to the "tag" end of your safety rope. Make it long enough to get your foot in it and you could use it as a step!

In training, they say that swing falls are the worst, that was your last fall, a swing fall.

****I GOTTA BE HONEST, I THINK SWINGING IN A RC IS BETTER THAN A STRAIGHT DOWNWARD FALL BECAUSE IT WOULD ABSORB SOME OF THE "SHOCK". A DYNAMIC ROPE WOULD BE MORE COMFORTABLE. I would think the majority of falls will include some type of rotation or lateral movement (except when sitting on a hang-on and a strap or cable fails.)

That was awesome, and I thank you.

You are a great teacher.

Tony

****I THINK IT WOULD BE GREAT FOR YOU TO TRY IT YOURSELF AND REPORT BACK YOUR IMPRESSIONS. Sounds like you have access to them. In the end we are talking about safety and bringing awareness to the topic. If those of you are happy and comfortable in a 4pt (fullbody harness), great keep using it! I have come to believe that the rock climbing harness is a safe and more comfortable option.

****I will say that if your belly is significantly larger than your waist.....MAYBE a rock harness could pose a problem for an upside down/top heavy hunter.

OK, from the class last week, you hit a force of 2600 pounds at the end of a 6 foot static tether/lanyard. OSHA requires the safety harness to reduce that to 1800 pounds.

At work, I have a 6 foot lanyard, with built in 3 foot deceleration folds, encapsulated in a plastic sheath. It is supposed to reduce the force when bottoming out on the lanyard to 800 pounds.

The worker who snapped his spine was a Steel Worker on a building construction site. The class material did not state how long his tether was. I will have to track down the Instructor from Premier Safety Solutions for that answer.

I cannot use my harness from work. We are required to throw them away upon use. It might get me fired. It was the same with my hunting harness when I fell, I threw it away and replaced the Prussic Rope.

I think Pat Lefemine tested some hunting harnesses a few years back, so no need for any of us to repeat that. ( plus you get a tad bit of groin pull in a hunting harness, no so with the RC Harness ).

Pat, if you are reading this thread, please post your hunting harness falls.

snapcrackpop, I sent you a PM.

I don't know if a dynamic rope would affect the swinging, but it would help cusion a straight vertical fall.

The harness I purchased for my kid was $26 on Amazon. Mine was on sale for $35? On Sierra Trading Post, an Eldeweiss.

****One more thing to poder, I hear you have to PAY TMA a lot of money to have your "Safety Equipment" tested and approved. Why would rock climbing harness companies pay all that money when there is TONS of different models and brands?

HEY ! How did you know about my belly !!!!

;^)

I never saw anyone pitch out of RC or Rapelling Harness, but I was always a tad scared when I went upside down. YIKES !!!!

Thanks for a very informative and enlightening discussion on this topic; probably the best safety oriented topic I have ever seen on here.

I've been tempted to go to the RC harness but something about it made me uncomfortable in comparison to the 4pt. I think a big part of that is, as a safety engineer, I follow along with OSHA standards like Tony does and it just gives me a little more confidence. I'm pretty good about leaving as much slack out of the tether as possible and also using the deceleration folds. For my lock on stands, I use the HSS Lifeline all the way up and back.

I think the most important aspect of this is whichever you use, use it religiously and have the safety tether attached at all times.

This is where Pat launched himself out of a tree using several harnessess.

I have attached the linky.

http://www.bowsite.com/bowsite/features/articles/harnesstest2009/index.cfm

PS: Taking a paraplegic guy hunting this Thursday and Friday that fell from a stand 10 years ago!

http://mistymountain.com/program-gear/program-harnesses/challenge-harness.html

And if you didn't know, those waist belts are a death trap. Use SOMETHING else asap.

Sorry but that's not true. So-called "lead" climbers OFTEN fall many tens of feet before their ropes come tight. My brother is a professional mountain guide and has taken falls of over 50' onto his nylon ropes with a rock climbing harness and been fine.

I use a rock climbing harness for sure. Way easier, more comfortable to hang in (vastly more comfortable to hang in) and easier to put on. BUT - my tether is extremely short - it would not be possible for me to fall more than about a foot at the very most. My basic tenet with my harnesses is to be so tightly tethered to the tree that any significant fall is basically impossible. My tether starts to come tight BEFORE I am at risk of falling.

My RC harness is the Petzl Pandion and I personally love it. It has no unneeded padding or gear loops. The buckles are easy to use and the single-loop tie-in is a no-brainer in the dark. I use it as a lineman's belt when working in a tree, and the sit-in comfort is very good. I especially like that the harness is easy to walk-in and that it can be customized to a certain extent. If desired, a guy could use a ground-to-stand safety line (please use dynamic RC rope) and a Gri-Gri or other ascender while climbing. I personally climb without attachment and then hook up at the stand. Leaving a tether line in each tree, it's very easy to clip into the harness (front remember) before entering the stand.

The main thing for anyone considering a rock harness is to get educated on them and how they are designed to use. This is about safety...not fashion or chic gear.

"Sorry but that's not true. So-called "lead" climbers OFTEN fall many tens of feet before their ropes come tight."

I used to call it line feeding, but it was usually the lead climber at the end of the rope who had the worst fall. Everyone else was connected a tad closer to the rope. I would never recommend that long of a lead, but realize sometimes shorter leads are not possible. I never "leaded" enough to get confident, switched to top roping, that I felt was safer.

According to Newtons law, you can fall 16 feet in one second, and 54 feet in two seconds.

" My brother is a professional mountain guide and has taken falls of over 50' onto his nylon ropes with a rock climbing harness and been fine. "

Most falls of that nature result in scraping rock on the way down. If you researh the CDC and NIHB websites, contact with rock is the leading cause of injury. The dynamic kermantile climbing ropes stretch and shock absorb, aiding your brother in his fall. A 50 foot lead can also lead to the first faller bringing others down with him, which I have witnessed. "Leaders" or line feeders have the most falls and injuries, just by the sheer more dangerous nature of that style.

Glad your brother was fine. That style of climbing always scared me the most. I was never any good at it.

I have not seen an instance where anyone fell out of their RC Harness, but have read about where people fell to their deaths by not connecting properly to the rope. Thus your advice of a short tether and snaps and Kevins advice to know and use your choice of a harness correctly and every time, are noteworthy.

I am still leary to use a RC Harness for something it was not designed for; unexpected falls. But that is just me.

Kevin, I used to do that too. Then in 2007, i joined a suburban bowhunting group, and had to primise that I would stay attached to the tree all the time, when leaving the gound until I came back down.

Being a man of my word, I kept my promise, and for the three years I hunted with that group, I developed a good habit of being always attached to the tree.

Then, in Oct 2011, while climbing a set of climbing sticks, my right distal bicep tendon ruptured, just as I was reaching up to the next rung on the stick with my left hand. The pain was the most excruciating pain I had ever felt in my life, and I let go.

I immediately fell, but fortunately, I was attached to a prussic rope that stopped my fall.

Sometimes it is not our equipment that fails, it is our bodies.

I highly recommend everyone stay attached to the tree everytime you leave the ground, and until you get back down.

Lessons I learned in the IBEP Class via Bogunshuutze and Viper, plus the good habits I developed by following rules and keeping my promises, saved me from injury and maybe death.

Tony

If tied (connected) in the back of the belt, the thigh straps would do nothing to distribute impact force, and the resulting forces would all be delivered to the belt and abdomen. I could also see a greater risk of inversion on a backside connection, and it might be impossible to get righted once that happened.

RC harnesses tend to cost less than the bulkier and busier (and weightier) hunting harnesses. I think the Pandion cost me about $60. It has no excess junk and almost becomes unnoticeable when worn.

My complaint with the 4pt/fullbody harness is the strap getting in the way with shooting to the right (right handed) and when turning to shoot from the left side to the right side of the tree (facing it).

I have found on line a 4 point RC Harness for Children.

Do you know if anyone has a 4 pt RC Harness for Adults ?

Its only attached at one point so its not the exact same as a linemans belt and rope, but its plenty stable for me.

To illustrate how a swing fall occurs, visualize a game of tetherball. Imagine that the worker is the ball and the attachment point is where the rope is tethered to the top of the pole.

When the ball is held up at an angle from the top of the pole and dropped, it swings into an arc, and eventually the path of the swing brings the ball in contact with the pole.

Conversely, if the ball is held directly under the tie off point, lifted up and dropped, instead of swinging, the ball will fall and rock back and forth until it comes to a rest next to the pole.

Whenever someone is attempting to access an area at height, it’s always important for them to use some form of fall protection. And even though there are significant differences between the equipment requirements for sport and workplace safety applications, it’s always helpful to have a clear understanding of why some equipment is best applied to one circumstance, but never applied to another one.

During the sport of rock climbing, one of the primary goals (and rewards) of the sport is being able to climb up to an area hundreds of feet in the air that would be otherwise unknown to human eyes and hands. Since rock climbers are regularly exposing themselves to those dangerous heights, they understand that they need to use specialized safety equipment to prevent serious injury.

But, when people are at work and they are in an industrial setting, the heights and nature of their height hazards are different because they are focused on the job that they need to do, instead of the rock climber who is at height for pleasure. Since the workplace is a different environment, people in the workplace require other types of fall protection equipment.

Rock climbers adhere to the equipment guidelines and standards that are set forth by the International Mountaineering and Climbing Federation (UIAA) for their personal safety, whereas people who are involved with general industry and construction safety are required by law to adhere to the height guidelines set forth by OSHA and encouraged to adhere to ANSI Z359 standards.

Both of those organizations are committed to the safety of people who are accessing height. However, rock climbers are using their equipment guidelines for sport safety whereas other people are using their guidelines for workplace safety. The differences in equipment are related to the type of fall that a worker at height would experience versus the type of fall that a rock climber at height would face.

Even though the circumstances between sport and workplace applications are different, there are some basic similarities in regards to the core ideology and logic behind staying safe at height. When rock climbers are learning about fall protection, their equipment checklist sounds similar to the list that is referenced during workplace height safety training (also known as the “ABC’s of Fall Protection”).

In the workplace, people are trained about height safety with the first four letters of the alphabet; workers need to have an Anchorage, a [full] Body harness, a Connector, and a Deceleration device in order to have a complete Personal Fall Arrest System. On a similar note, when climbers are learning about fall protection safety, they are encouraged to find a good anchorage location, use a [waist] body harness, and attach to their anchorage system with connectors (ropes and carabiners).

The premise behind any fall protection system typically uses the same general ideas. And that’s why the application of the fall protection becomes one of the most crucial elements in establishing the appropriate safety equipment. In the workplace, people are usually getting exposed to heights because they need to access the top of large vehicles, storage units, machines, or buildings. A majority of the time, people will need to go to those different areas because they are either in the construction process or they are performing some type of maintenance. Whether they are doing construction or maintenance tasks, people will invariably be carrying tools that could be heavy and other types of equipment that could influence the worker’s balance.

But, when people are participating in the sport of rock climbing, the only items that they will need to have with them are pieces of safety equipment—all of which are designed to be relatively lightweight—and climbers only have equipment with them if they are climbing outdoors on specific types of rock faces. Also, when workers are moving around on top of equipment or vehicles, they are usually on their feet. When rock climbers are scaling a wall, they are using both of their hands and their feet as points of contact against the wall. For this reason, rock climbers have a better sense of control and stability while they are navigating heights. Workers could easily lose their balance and fall when they only have their feet as a point of contact at height.

Two of the biggest differences between rock climbing and workplace fall protection pertain to the harness and the deceleration device. Workplace fall protection harnesses are full body harnesses that have a dorsal and/or sternal D-Ring attachment area. The D-Rings are placed in those areas because workers generally have vertical falls and placing them in a harness with an anchorage connection in that area keeps the worker upright.

However, a rock climbing harness only goes around the waist and legs. This style of harness is preferred for climbers because they could fall at a variety of different angles. If a climber were to fall from any angle while wearing a full body harness, studies conducted by the UIAA have proven that a full body harness would put the climber at a higher risk for neck and spinal injuries. So, to reduce the impact of fall arrest on a climber’s body, the UIAA established that waist harnesses are safer for rock climber usage.

As far as deceleration devices are concerned, there is a huge difference between what is an acceptable device for fall arrest in the workplace and in the sport of rock climbing. In the workplace, falls should be arrested through the use of either a rip stitch lanyard or a self-retracting lanyard. These are preferred for the workplace because they provide the most controlled and immediate arrest of downward movement.

But, in rock climbing, a dynamic (or semi-stretchy) rope is the deceleration device. Rock climbers use ropes because they need to be able to connect to more anchorage points as they are moving along a rock face. When workers are using fall protection at their jobs, they are tied off to either a specific anchorage point, or their anchorage is following them along an overhead track system. The rock climber needs the rope because they will be covering various distances during their climbing route with anchorages that they will tie onto as they progress on the wall.

Although the general concepts behind fall protection are the same, there are always going to be exceptions to rules. Always assess your situation before putting yourself at a dangerous height. And remember, if you’re not sure what safety devices to use, ask someone who knows. Until the next time, stay safe up there!

I think you misunderstood the link.

From the 11th Paragraph in my last post;

Workplace fall protection harnesses are full body harnesses that have a dorsal and/or sternal D-Ring attachment area. The D-Rings are placed in those areas because "workers generally have vertical falls" and placing them in a harness with an anchorage connection in that area keeps the worker upright.

From the 12th Paragraph, telling you RC Falls have greater swing falls:

If a climber were to fall from any angle ( = swing fall ) while wearing a full body harness, studies conducted by the UIAA have proven that a full body harness would put the climber at a higher risk for neck and spinal injuries. So, to reduce the impact of fall arrest on a climber’s body, the UIAA established that waist harnesses are safer for rock climber usage.

My last 2 posts were not my words.

It was an article by Ridgid Lifelines comparing the two harnesses.

If you want to use a piece of sporting equipment for something it was not designed for, I won't argue with you, OR acuse you of "being silly" or making "something that its not."

At least now you got other data to consider in your choice of equipment.

Hope you have safe and successful hunts.

Tony

Have a great, safe hunt folks!

I don't understand how there seems to be a consensus that you won't' get suspension trauma hanging from an RC harness. Aren't the leg straps going around your legs in the same place as in a hunting harness, just under your butt? Someone please explain that.

Also, how do these ascenders and Gris-Gris work? Are either preferable to a prussic knot? please explain why. A link to a video if anyone has a good one would be great.

I dont see the need for an ascender so its not worth the risk of clanking it on something.

gris gris-I d0nt know what it is...

With the traditional 4pt/full body harness, you hang with your legs straight down.