Contributors to this thread:
Are hunters still going to Africa?
Are hunters still going to Africa with the Eboli problems?
The hot spots are way far away from the usual hunting locations. But that being said, travel within Africa is probably not as well regulated as international travel to Europe and US.
South Africa gets thousands of illegal immigrants a day across the border from Zim.
It would make me think.
We're 1 case ahead of South Africa.
no thanks !!! this is only the start
the places where you'd be hunting are probably the least areas of concern.....I'd be more concerned about how many people you contact during travel, packed airports and airplanes, bus or taxi's....no doubt it's gonna kill tourism.
I did the South Africa hunt last year. It was fun but I'm not going back to that part of Africa to hunt again.
I may in the future go back to other parts of Africa for a free- range hunt, but no time soon.
If we stop going to Africa then Ebola wins.
In all seriousness, Africa has never been near the top of my list of bowhunting destinations. I would love to visit Africa, but other places better suite my bowhunting style. Regardless, now would not be a good time to travel to Africa. For those who choose to go anyway, exercise caution, good luck and please consider the well being of others as you travel.
It will not really matter about the rest of Africa if Ebola succeeds in escaping to other non African countries as it has the potential to do. It can spread just as easily in India, and other densely populated urban areas serviced by commercial flights. I wish I was wrong, but I see this virus escaping no matter what the WHO, Obama and the CDC do. Total containment is the only real answer to Ebola; and that becomes more and more unlikely as entire countries would have to be shut down causing extensive economic chaos. Right now I think traveling to RSA is still pretty safe or as safe as any air travel will be in the coming months as more infected people happen to slip through the weak screening protocols just announced. The risk will still be low while flying since those just infected or without symptoms would not be as likely to contaminate a plane's interior with "hot" bodily fluids. It may take years for this to unfold and I see a lot of people already close to going into panic mode over the news. I know there is a White House Petition right now to ban all commercial flights out the the affected regions until Ebola has been contained. In particular the flight crews are really worried about their constant risk of exposure on these long, crowded flights. It's just a matter of time I fear, before some of the crew or passengers get sick from it too. Only then will there be enough pressure on our leaders to make the really difficult decisions to contain this if it is still possible.
I'll let things die down before I go over there. I need to get to Alaska first. Between the muslims and ebola, I am not in a hurry.
I'm booked for '16, and I'm a'goin'. I'm sure it will be calmed down by then
Imagine you where the next passenger to sit in the exact seat as the guy that landed in Dallas. Arm rest. Tray table. Skymall magazine.
A little bit of sweat. Maybe some nose drippings.
We all know the airlines do a cursory cleaning only as they turn and burn flights throughout the day!
Im booked for 2015, im not worried if it happens it happens. my number is up well it is up. Not gonna stop me from havin fun.
When the pig flu hit, the pandemic went to orange. My company stopped all travel to Mexico. The pig flu turned out to be nothing. Ebola scares the heck out of me and I can't figure out why it is not being treated stricter than the pig flu was from a travel perspective. I personally would not be going to Africa.
You have more of a chance of contracting Ebola in Texas than in SA. Africa is a continent by the way not a country. I assume that if there was an outbreak of Ebola in Manitoba that some here would advise South Africans not to travel to Miami Beach for vacation. Here's a photo of two of my clients in SA now hunting lion and enjoying sundowners this evening.
He's looking a little pale and peakid now that you mention it ken
Could be the same thing permeating this thread, "chicken little syndrome."
Really... the sky is falling?
I agree....there is nothing to worry about. Medical professionals trained in infectious disease wearing full protective gear have contracted Ebola so no worries here. I am booking a flight to Presbyterian Hospital in Dallas for a tour.
I would never insult anyone's inteligence by telling them that there is no reason for concern over this Ebola thing. Obviously,this is very serious illness, and common sense and education of the facts will go a long way in making your travel decisions in traveling to any destination, let alone West Africa.
That being said, it would appear that it is statistically more of a risk to travel to Dallas than South Africa. Back in August, the South African government imposed a travel ban on any international flights arriving from Liberia, Sierra Leone, and Guinea. While this is not 100% effective in keeping infected individuals from getting into any country, it is much more definitive than anything the U.S. is currently doing. The fact that the South African government is more proactive in anything than the U.S. government is a sad fact in itself.
My wife and I have plans to hunt South Africa in 2015, and I have no reason at this point for concern. Should the situation change to a serious, viable threat, I'm certain that any reputable African outfitter would offer reasonable options for their clients with deposits. I can assure you that Limcroma will work with clients in any way necessary to accommodate their plans and address their concerns. Client safety is always the top priority.
I am an ER RN and protocols are being revised almost weekly. The CDC is adding more symptoms and countermeasures as we speak. I now have to do an ebola screening on every single person I triage. In my opinion, there is much more to this disease than they are letting on. This is not the bird flu crap they freaked out about back in '09. This stuff will kill a perfectly healthy person. They say it is not airborne but I call BS! Anybody who has sneezed or had a productive cough in a sunbeam with no air movement, can see just how many tiny mist droplets will linger in the air.
Our health officials and elected officials have really given the American public a lot of misleading information. I now have the opinion that they really have no idea what the hell they are doing. First we are told ebola will never make it to the US. Then we are told that health care workers that follow proper procedures are not at risk when caring for patients. Anyone want to sit in an airplane next to an infectious passenger while a CDC official in the next seat tells you how "safe" you are? Not me!
Ditto Thornton and Ollie. I know it is shocking to say but I believe this is just another instance where we can't trust the current administration. The head of the CDC is the buffoon who instituted all of the trans fat crap in NYC. Regardless of his credentials he is a political hack first.
Count me in the group that says Ebola is dangerous, spreading (internationally) and not enough is known about it to predict with any certainty how it might spread or adapt. I understand when hunters and travelers are unwilling to give up a plan. I understand when they rely on good luck and odds to keep them safe. I definitely understand when a business or political entity tries to pooh-pooh the situation and assure everyone that things are blown out of proportion. Yes...I get all that. I hope they get that Ebola is for real and it kills. I hope they get that not enough is known, and that perceived risk may not close to the actual risk. I recall when people only thought HIV was spread by homosexual contact...then it was needles...then saliva...then heterosexually...and it took people's deaths to get it right finally. They trusted what they heard, and it was not the full story. Do we have the full story on Ebola? Will we have it in a year? In the meantime, will you really trust what you hear? "Don't worry about it...never gonna happen here". There is bravado, there is ignorance...and there is stupidity. They can all make you dead in the case of this virus.
Africa is 3x as big as the USA. That's 3X!!!
Obviously, going to ground zero of the disease isn't that smart but if you are 3,000+ miles away it wouldn't be any different than if you didn't come to Boston because the Bird Flu hit LA.
Kevin beat me to the punch. I vividly remember the HIV panic and all the crazy stuff people were saying and doing.
Be smart. Be educated. Use common sense. You will be OK.
If you are really worried - postpone and go another time.
"Sage" advise, pardon the pun. Liberia is 3400 miles from South Africa. It is closer to London, Paris, Madrid, Venice, Rome, etc. than to Johannesburg. It's actually closer to Brazil than SA. Again, it is a continent. SA also has stricter/tighter restrictions on travel from those affected areas than does the US. Anyway, Dallas is not under quarantine and the people there are going about their daily business. Only time will tell how serious this issue becomes. For the time being relax and monitor.
I have been anxious to hear thoughts on this issue and I'm glad it's being discussed, by hunters, for hunters. I am also scheduled to hunt there in 2015 and , at this time, I do not have any major concerns about the travel, other than I simply hate to fly! ;) However, this trip was to be my 15yo son's first trip to Africa and to imply my wife is concerned would be a giant understatement. In fact, I was informed last night that I would not be taking him, period. So, I'm considering cancelling my son's reservation and looking for another adult hunter to join me. Or, perhaps rescheduling the entire hunt until 2016 when the dust has settled. ????
Ken, I appreciate the fact that a panic could hurt your livliehood, as well as other hunting operations in Africa. I'm not quite ready to move to the end of the road and lock the gate, but Kevin makes some really good points IMO. If this thing is handled with our government's usual expertise, we may all be in the crapper.
I like relaxing as much as the next guy, but this situation is only going to get worse I'm afraid. It will gone by 2016 either.
The WHO is now saying it expects up to 10,000 new Ebola cases per month! That is obviously approaching exponential growth at this point just several months into it.
It is already escaping W. Africa to some degree but so far has not impacted much of anything here in the US. But, keep vigilant since this is just getting started.
As W. Africans are still allowed to fly out of their countries, there is bound to be more cases; likely in Belgium, France UK and the US (historical common destinations for them). IMO, RSA has the right idea restricting commercial flights from W. Africa, but with more and more infected patients the odds keep increasing that more of them will escape the region.
The CDC is more worried than they are letting on; not wanting a general panic. They just convened a meeting with Health Care experts to consider new CDC recommendations that each of the 50 States have a single designated Ebola Hospital that all Ebola patients would be funneled to. Further, they are telling them that a highly trained teams of 20 in number will be the only HCPs seeing and providing care to Ebola patients. This would take a great deal of effort and time to put together. Plus, they are calling for other non-infected patients (heart disease, etc) to possibly be moved to other facilities. Hospital Admins are saying this could mean bankruptcy for some and no one is suggesting how this will be all be paid for. This is "not" being prepared!
I am hoping someone up the chain of command finally makes a common sense move to ban all commercial flights from the affected areas of W. Africa to the US and do it soon! It may not stop all Ebola from getting here, but it has to be better than keeping it all open.
In the meantime, I guess we all can relax some more, cause there is nothing you or I can do about it, except demand the US and all other Gov's place a ban on commercial air travel from W.Africa and put much stricter and screening and quarantine measures in place.
limb, having your kid sure does make you think long and hard. When the piggy flu hit and went to orange pandemic, my whole family was supposed to head to Mexico that week for a vacation. Due to the 2 kids coming, we switched the trip last minute to Jamaica and spent an extra $1k. The piggy flu amounted to nothing and I hope the same is true with ebola.
Your wife might be overly cautious, but give her the full credit for not being willing to take the risk. As you know, it's one thing to assume the risk for yourself but a totally different set of feelings emerge when children and other loved ones enter into the picture. We know very little about the Ebola virus (and probable coming pandemic) at this point. That fact in itself might be the best reason to play it safe.
I feel that a likely scenario will be a person with Ebola exposes a group of travelers who then move it around to other countries while completely unaware of their exposure. Once the pyramid effect starts, containing the virus will not be possible. There are currently no approved drugs which kill or inactivate the virus once in its host. At this point we can't even eliminate animals (pets) as carriers of Ebola. So little body of knowledge and dealing with something which could be a footnote in history, or could change history.
No need to panic, but plenty of need to be educated, aware and as cautious as possible.
I just read "The Hot Zone" for the second time. I recommend it for anyone who's really interested in how Ebola works. It will make you think twice about how 'safe' you are...
The current administration will not ban commercial travel from the Ebola hot spots. It would not be "fair" and more importantly to them it would actually open the door for discussion of closing the southern border. That is not going to happen.
FWIW, the new enterovirus that is causing paralysis and ultimately death in some children that contract it is COMMON in Central America. I wonder if the most recent planned illegal invasion had anything to do with that?
Caution is always the best policy. Statistics tell you what you want to hear. Statistically, you are more likely to die from a bee sting than a bear attack. I doubt Kevin invested more in bug spray than bear spray on his recent trip to Alaska. You also don't go fishing in a lightening storm with a graphite fishing rod, tends to skew the stats. As he mentioned above. Educate yourself and be cautious.
I've had first hand experience with Ebola when it was identified in a Reston, VA Cynomologus monkey colony. I received monkeys into a facility I was managing that were part of the same shipment that went to the Reston site(a site I visited on several occasions). Fortunately, none of the animals in my facility sero converted, nor did I (they tested me). It can be latent for an unknown period of time and then can just activate. The stuff is scary!
The second health care worker with ebola was just in our area and visiting a relative in Cleveland/Akron Ohio AFTER being exposed. Now everyone that person was around is at risk and everyone they were around is at risk. How would you like to have flown next to that person unknowingly?
Or maybe a person who got infected from that person then boarded a flight to somewhere you were going?
I say it's not worth the risk to fly right now and I have several flights scheduled and will likely cancel them.
And I'm not over-thinking it either. This virus is NOTHING to mess with.
I think it always comes down to acceptable risk. If you risk (anything) and are not harmed, it was a good gamble...once. If you or a family member ends up in harm's way, the risk suddenly isn't acceptable. People are watching this unfold and deciding for themselves whether to take the risk of travel during the development of a viral outbreak. I would not feel particularly safe in a large international airport which served global passengers right now. Imagine what a gate agent must be thinking as they meet and handle the tickets of every single passenger boarding a plane. Viral roulette? You bet.
The second health care worker is a case in point. Who did they have contact with during travel, as well as at destination? Akron/Canton are a few hours north of my home in Ohio, so reading that story simply reinforces that Ebola CAN show up in the unlikeliest of places including small towns and rural settings. Many health care settings are still establishing protocols for handling suspected or confirmed cases. If this virus ever spreads into the at-risk populations who seldom get adequate medical care (think addicts, homeless, etc) you will watch it spread rapidly as sick people infect those they live or associate with. They will not seek evaluation because of a fever or bit of malaise. They may not even be aware of the virus or possibility of infection.
By the way...how many miles is it from Dallas to Akron?
The guy from Liberia that brought it to the US didnt much care about the risk either. SA is very secure compared to US airlines. Wonder when they will cancell flights coming from the US?
The fact is its in the US and spreading!
I hear quotes like you have a better chance of getting struck by lightning. I wonder if nurse Pham thought that 1 week ago?
My personnal thought? If I was booked to hunt in SA I would cancell out and wait until things settled down. Not only for my own welbieng but for my family and people in my own country I may be putting at risk.
oh wait, one question tho...is Africa a continent? ;-)
I made my flight arrangements to Namibia for my June 2015 safari yesterday. I have ZERO concern about ebola reaching the part of Namibia where I hunt (up by Etosha). Since I'm 67 hearts old, I figure I'm playing with house money anyway.
With today's travel networks the whole world is tightly linked together.
When my wife and I returned from Zambia in June of this year, we flew from Ndola, Zambia to J'Burg, SA and then on to the US, landing in Dulles in Washington, DC,and the final leg was to O'hare in Chicago. To my knowledge, there are no ebola cases in those African nations.
However, before leaving Africa, we stopped in the most western of West African countries.........Senegal. While on the ground in Dakar for around an hour, the South Arican Airlines flight crew switched to a fresh crew for the trip across the Atlantic, security come on board to check every seat, and additional passengers came on board.
I don't know what kind of restrictions are in place in the western African nations to prevent travel between them, it's not too far from Dakar to the center of the outbreak. This layman surely doesn't understand exactly how it can be transmitted and if there are/were risks there.
I would travel to see my daughter and her family tomorrow if it were not the busiest time of their farm season now, it would be impossible for them to get time off work. My son, his wife, and their 4 children are planning to go to Zambia over the Christmas break. They will make the trip unless travel is stopped by countries through which they are flying. I believe they are scheduled Chicago-Toronto-Ethiopia-Ndola(Zambia).
When scheduling again, we will probably try to avoid landing in Dakar.
How is it that a nurse who came into direct contact with an Ebola patient in Dallas gets on a plane and flies to Cleveland under 3 weeks after exposure?
CDC stated prior to this that any one exposed should not leave the Dallas area until they are at least 21 days post. Yet one of the nurses who cared for the patient gets on a plane to visit family??
I would feel more comfortable in RSA than in my Cleveland suburb. I highly doubt that this will amount to much outside of the core areas in Africa but why tempt fate here in the Us?
"I have ZERO concern about ebola reaching the part of Namibia where I hunt (up by Etosha)"
Bud, it may not reach there, but those on your flights may certainly have been there or in contact with someone who has. Or used the same door handle as you in a restroom, or served you in an airport food kiosk.
Im not saying not to do....but if it isn't completely controlled by then it isn't worth the risk.
Bud, which outfitter are you hunting with in Namibia?
Don't want to derail this thread but: Cleveland local news is focused completely on the airport and flights. The nurse with Ebola spent 7 or so days in Akron Ohio planning for her wedding. How may people do you think she came in close contact with?
How can our media be so blind/controlled to make this a "don't be afraid to fly" "keep the economy going" focus?
Rick...agreed. Here in Ohio the news media is focused on the local issues of having an E+ person fly commercially into our state. All eyes have been on Texas to this point, but suddenly Ohio is a new potential hotspot. This scenario is exactly what people should be studying. If it's people that carry the disease, then we need to look at travel as how it vectors from region to region or country to country. Restricting movement of the virus is critical now, because once it gets away (can't be controlled) then it will spread throughout a given country in much the same scenario as did HIV.
As an Ohioan I felt far removed from Ebola exposure, until this latest news. Back in June we went to Hawaii and a nearby passenger was obviously sick with a respiratory virus. I doubt if a single person ever considered whether this woman could have had something more serious than a bad cold or flu. It's gotten to the point that I'm semi-paranoid about picking something up when I travel. I avoid hand contact, small bathrooms, people who cough...and on and on.
And now they report that she actually called the CDC before she flew becauae she had a 99.7 fever and they told her it was OK to fly. AMAZING!!
Texas was a heck of a lot farther from West Africa than anywhere in Africa. If you travel over there and, bring it back here, you should be executed on the spot. You say that is harsh. I say grow up and be responsible.
I think if they start to dip everything and everybody before shipping or travel as they do hides and skins there is no more chance of it spreading.....
It is an added fee however....
SteveB I had not heard that but it par for the course. Our government is a liberal joke. Obamacare is a mess and the CDC, FEMA, etc.
Some blame on the nurse as well. I feel bad for the care workers that are put in harms way unknowingly but once you are exposed there is a moral duty to protect others.
I am pretty confident this will go the way of the swine flu but?
I decided to tell my work I would prefer not to fly into Dallas in a couple weeks. They are a bit peeved but I just do t see any reason to be in the Dallas airport these days!
Writer: I'm hunting with Jan du Plessis, who runs Sebra Hunting Safaris, near Kamanjab. This will be my third hunt with Jan.
Beautiful pictures and great trophies Bud.
fwiw: If I was planning to head anywhere internationally...but especially to the African continent...I would be carefully monitoring for possible future travel restrictions. Given that the only way to control the global spread of Ebola is to control the movement of its host (humans) to and from affected regions, it's not far-fetched to imagine the WHO, UN, CDC recommending a travel ban. One sick person came to Dallas and died. Two (known so far) confirmed cases have come from that. Potential exposures have subsequently arisen from those. The disease is treatable, but prevention will hinge on isolating outbreaks and preventing their spread. If that isn't done, then we will likely see this situation go from whatever it is now into a stage 2.
Few have talked about the crisis in terms of economic impact. I believe that this will be a prime consideration in how governments respond. If the scenario indicates that a widespread Ebola outbreak in the US would cause panic and have serious economic repercussions, I do think the response from government(s) will be much stronger. Ohio is already looking into what it can do to protect its residents, as people wait to see whether anyone tests E+.
I believe in consistent rationale - meaning if you won't go to Africa because of Ebola then you better not leave your home area because there are just as many deadly diseases on the east coast and west coast which are in a much smaller area.
Remember Africa is 3x the size of the lower 48. That's huge!
As others mentioned just be smart and use common sense. If over the next 12 months the apocalypse happens, well, then probably should cancel. If a handful of people have died from it you are as safe going to Africa as you are driving to work.
Only a fool ignores the risk presented by this disease. There is no cure other than experimental drugs that few are receiving and which are in very short supply. Reports indicate those who die, suffer very painful deaths. Taking a fool-hardy risk not only puts yourself in danger, but your family and friend with whom you come in contact upon your return. South Africa may be safer than the US at this time as their government is actually taking prudent steps to protect their citizens...banning all flights and entry from the affected countries. Too bad our government is not equally concerned of our health and well-being. Travel to SA is safe today, but it only takes one or two infected persons to slip past the safeguards for this to change.
Ollie has it right. Here's the thing people might be ignoring: We...the USA...may well see our own outbreak and WE could be labeled as an affected country if Ebola spreads here. We worry about our safety when travelling abroad, but the disease is already here. Other countries could well decide to ban US citizens from entry. The very thing which we all value (freedom) could be the thing we lose if Ebola hits hard. We need to be aware and watching.
Another care giver that was in direct contact with the patient who died in Dallas apparently decided a vacation on a cruise ship was in order. Don't know if the CDC gave the OK on that one yet. He and his companion are now isolated in their cabin. Belize was asked if they would let them get on a plane and come home to the US. Their answer was NO! Why would they risk it?
My only concern with leaving the country at this time would be our country stepping up to control the spread and banning travel into the US from high risk areas. You could end up stranded if that happens.
This photo demonstrates size of Africa. Ebola has better chance of reaching USA than neighboring countries in southern Africa.
It's easier to board a plane to the USA than walk across african borders with Ebola. That's why it usually burns out quickly there because sick people cannot walk to the subway, train station, bus station, or afford airline tickets across the African continent.
We are internationalizing a local disease. Like kicking a small fire in the forest and spreading it all over.
I aint getting on any plane anytime soon ,, Thorton they tell us it isnt airborne as of yet , it has mutated many times since first found !!! Scary stuff
I'm trolling through old posts because I'm stupid excited about an Africa trip in 3 months. . .
Admittedly, I live my life mostly with my head in the sand. . .
Whatever happened with this ebola thing? Did the sky-is-falling predictions come true? I think I would have noticed if my neighbor had died from it. . .
I am going in 2017 to Zimbwawe. Hope everything will be Ok for next year!!!
Ebola has pretty much played out for now, I think, though I'd certainly want to just check the statistics before I booked any hunts and again before I left. But not that many countries have been affected, so you just gotta find out about where you're headed.
And FWIW, if you stay away from people who are actively sick, you probably have a lot of other concerns which are a lot more realistic.
These days, your most likely issue is going to be getting any heads, hides or horns back into the country. So just be real sure you don't shoot anything that has a name.
You should be excited about your African trip. You are going to have a great time. The Ebola scare was a legitimate concern for a few west African countries at the height of the epidemic, but the spread of the disease has been drastically mitigated in recent months. Ironically, there were more reported cases in the US than the entire collective group of Southern African countries where you are likely going to be hunting.
South Africa got ahead of the problem very early on and banned flights from every east African country almost a year before you ever heard about the outbreak on the news. You will still see thermal monitors scanning arriving passengers in the Johannesburg airport as a precaution.
The only medical advice I would offer is to get an updated tetanus booster. There is a Hepatitis A & B vaccine available, but I doubt you will need it unless you will be traveling around the country on your own outside of the outfitter's care. Malaria meds are only recommended in malaria prone areas. I would ask your outfitter if you will be hunting in one of those areas. Most of South Africa and Namibia are malaria free.
You should have no issues with importing any hides, horns or skulls from plainsgame animals. A few of the smaller predators and primates require special permits to be imported back to the US. Again, check with your outfitter if any of the small game is on your list. Namibia is considering banning night hunting for predators and varmints for 2016/17. Nothing official yet, but I would consult with your outfitter if you are hunting Namibia in 2016 and you want to go after any of the predators and varmints which are most often hunted at night with spotlights.
Have fun! take lots of pictures!
Bake... where are you going? and with who?? I'm going in early June with Dare to Bowhunt, in SA... really looking forward to the trip ;)
Oh sheesh didn't realize this was an old thread and I was reading from the beginning thinking "oh wow..Oooh...mmmmmm.....Ebola hey?....yikes.... I remember something about Ebola a couple years back but this is starting to sound like it's getting serious!
Then I saw a date and realized it was 2014!!! Ha ha oh man, shows how much I pay attention to news not having cable.
I'm heading to South Africa with Limcroma...leaving on June 28th. I can't wait to get there.
I'm 10 days into a 3 week trip visiting my daughter and her family in Zambia. They (she, husband, and 5 kids, including a 14 day old newborn) have had no issues except for a few bouts of malaria. They have lived here almost 3 years, they're about 50 miles from the Congo.
If you don't count the run-in with African bees, the cobras, mambas, etc, it's pretty uneventful.
They live on the edge of the bush. I believe Zambia has the highest percentage of undeveloped bush (67%) in Africa.
Malaria and giardia have been an issue for them though.
Prez, good luck. You will have a fantastic time with Hannes and his team. Great place to hunt.
:) I was being kind of a sarcastic jerk by bringing the thread back up. . .
I remember there was a big to-do over the case or two in the US, and there was a big to-do over some of the workers being quarantined. . . then I didn't hear anymore about it.
Either it petered out, or some other news took the forefront, but I was pretty sure the sky-is-falling predictions never came to pass.
I have not worried about going over since we booked, and don't worry now. I want to be careful, but I'm far more worried about random crime than I am about disease or plague